Cradle Of Hope Adoption Agency In MD ripoff - adoption fraud and wrongful adoption false promises Silver Spring Maryland

Kim, I am sorry to hear about what happened. That is a horrible injustice.

I am not sure if you still check this site, two years after the origional post, especially after all the rediculous banter that has gone on.

I was wondering if your beloved baby has made any improvements or breakthroughs over the last two years. I was also wondering if the COH ever came back and at least appologized or offered any help or support after their mistake.

My husband and I will remember you in our prayers, and wish your family the best.

Something I think people lose sight of:

Adoption exists to provide children with loving homes. ADOPTION DOES NOT EXIST TO PROVIDE INFERTILE COUPLES WITH CHILDREN.

There IS a lot of fraud in adoption...the Gladney Center claims they're non-profit, but it costs thousands to adopt there. They claim it's for the birthmom's living expenses, but birthmoms are required to work, and they take them to the welfare office to file for medicaid for their birth services. So why the need for all the cash????

Granted, my adoption was very bad.....my adoptives (I refuse to call them parents) were also supremely disappointed because I too had health problems. They never let me forget I wasn't their "dream daughter."

You're getting a CHILD when you adopt, not a live doll. Keep that in mind always

emily iv relized by reading you letters you have no life that woman did not deserve to be lie to. maybe she could have been better prepared for what she was getting in to. it not ok for agencys or doctors to lie. my youngest daugther (a twin) was born with the cord aroun her neck. shold the doctor have said it's ok while she was bright blue! no i think not. you have no jugement on this because its not you or me. just hopefully she will be able to hand this. and as for you maybe your mother should have left you at the agency. being pathtic wold have been a good reason.

emily iv relized by reading you letters you have no life that woman did not deserve to be lie to. maybe she could have been better prepared for what she was getting in to. it not ok for agencys or doctors to lie. my youngest daugther (a twin) was born with the cord aroun her neck. shold the doctor have said it's ok while she was bright blue! no i think not. you have no jugement on this because its not you or me. just hopefully she will be able to hand this. and as for you maybe your mother should have left you at the agency. being pathtic wold have been a good reason.

emily iv relized by reading you letters you have no life that woman did not deserve to be lie to. maybe she could have been better prepared for what she was getting in to. it not ok for agencys or doctors to lie. my youngest daugther (a twin) was born with the cord aroun her neck. shold the doctor have said it's ok while she was bright blue! no i think not. you have no jugement on this because its not you or me. just hopefully she will be able to hand this. and as for you maybe your mother should have left you at the agency. being pathtic wold have been a good reason.

emily iv relized by reading you letters you have no life that woman did not deserve to be lie to. maybe she could have been better prepared for what she was getting in to. it not ok for agencys or doctors to lie. my youngest daugther (a twin) was born with the cord aroun her neck. shold the doctor have said it's ok while she was bright blue! no i think not. you have no jugement on this because its not you or me. just hopefully she will be able to hand this. and as for you maybe your mother should have left you at the agency. being pathtic wold have been a good reason.

What has happened to you was wrong, however there is hope. I am a psych major and I think I should let you know of some important facts as well as, a little hope. It is so commen for childre, especcially babies from orphanages to apper to have and be diagnosed with disorders, and to end up becoming fine, this has been proven time, and time again through studies, I have done many of papers on the subject. First off, I know first hand that a child performing and operating at a 10 month level when there at the age of 19 months means nothing, not a d**n thing, so commen you would be supprised. Also children get diagnosed with your childs disease premeturally on a regular basis. As for fetal alcohol syndrome, children diagnosed under is due to fetal is often not right. In many of studies with infants with these conditions, it has been proven that a little tlc, and some work with the child can remady all problems, and you can have a succselful operating child with minor learning diasabilitys. Soooo, much of a childs cognitive development has to do with lve and belong, a child from an orphange can appear to have problem up to the age of five, but after years of work and love turn out to be okay. I just want you to hang in ther and keep giving it your all, and with lots of love a devotion, as well as therapy your child can become a fine chind with limited to no learning disabilities, this has been proven time and time again. The agency did you wrong they lied, but hang in there the is so much hope! Doctors have been proven wrong in this area time and time again.

I am deep in my email tonight, but saw your message in this deep, complicated discussion.

Rather than anger and blame, I try to look at first principles (perhaps from my dim light).

It is in interest of nobody that an adoption should fail. No agency, no agency rep, no government official, no judge, no prospective parent and no child would wish for a bad outcome.

The is no adoption, nor is there any pregnancy, without risk. (It follows that if prospective parents cannot accept a degree of risk, they should not be considering adoption.)

The decision to adopt is a family decision. Job of agency, myself and others is to make sure (to the best of our ability) that the family is fully informed. We should also make sure that given the pressures of jet lag, culture shock, lack of medical expertise, emotional reactions, etc. that parents have time to make this important and informed decision. If we have not done this job as professionals, we are remiss.

Still, at the end of the day, it is not our decision to adopt a child or not. It is only our job to provide best input upon request.

Assuming that adoption cannot be performed without risk, then there will be sometimes bad outcomes. Bad outcomes affect the family including the adopted child.

If we were now to think of the adopted child as the main patient/client, I would ask the old country doctor question ...what to do next.

Anger, blame and litigation do not help.

First principle is that the kiddo comes first. Angry posts and responses do not help the child. Prayer might though there is not yet scientific evidence.

Best regards and sorry for being long-winded

I don't know about the rest of you but I read Kim's entire initial post and nowhere in it does she claim to love this little boy. Nowhere. It is one long rant about how this is more work than she signed up for. Everybody hopes and prays that the baby they bear or adopt will be healthy and 'normal'. Not everyone has that good fortune. If I am too honest for any of you, that is your privelege. Don't read on.

Kim, do you love your son or not? If so, accept that you will have to go the extra mile with him just as you might have had to do with a biological child. If not, find a family who will love him and go that extra mile. Adoption, like birth, is a crap shoot.

I don't know about the rest of you but I read Kim's entire initial post and nowhere in it does she claim to love this little boy. Nowhere. It is one long rant about how this is more work than she signed up for. Everybody hopes and prays that the baby they bear or adopt will be healthy and 'normal'. Not everyone has that good fortune. If I am too honest for any of you, that is your privelege. Don't read on.

Kim, do you love your son or not? If so, accept that you will have to go the extra mile with him just as you might have had to do with a biological child. If not, find a family who will love him and go that extra mile. Adoption, like birth, is a crap shoot.

Emily,
I have no idea what is wrong with you. All this woman wanted to do was let people know what happened to her and her family. So what if she wanted a baby that didn't have as many health problems as others, at least her and her husband were willing to adopt. I have ADHD and Bi-polar disorder and you know what it doesn't make a difference. My birthmom gave me up for the single reason that she couldn't take care of me. Not all women give up thier children so others that can't have kids can. It sounds to me like you have a few issues of your own.

You need to stop spewing out your pathetic crap on this woman and fix what is wrong in your own life. All that matters is that this family was willing to give a child a home it otherwise wouldn't have. Anyone adopting a child has a right to request a baby or a teenager, a healthy child or one with health problems. all that matters is that the child found a good home. And emily don't reply to me because you haven't pissed me off that bad yet but if you spew your crap at me you will. Leave this woman alone!!!!

I am an attorney in New York representing a couple and their adopted children in an action against COH. The facts a strikingly similar, ie; deception, failure to disclose etc. I would like to speak with you.

They should NOT have done this, obviously. I feel bad that you were put in this situation, and I see why you would want to make this report to keep others who may use this agency from going through the same thing. Please don't take this harshly, as I am not judging because at this point I would like something clarified. Early on in the posts you stated something to the effect of "you have no idea what we have done and how much money we have spent." The latter part about the money somewhat bothers me, but maybe I'm just reading into it. I grew up in a home where my parents thought money was the way to show love for a child. If we had a roof over our heads, food on teh table, all the new clothes we wanted, all the newest toys, gadgets, etc....we were "well" taken care of and they were good parents. They still think that way to this day. Being a parent is more than buying things for your child. I desperately wanted relationships with my parents, but sadly I never was really able to form ones. I can honestly say I feel no familial obligations of loyalty or love. Again, please don't take this as me criticizing you. I can completely understand how tough this is on you and how you were wronged. I just hope that you didn't mean that you thought money=love and care for a child.

~sending well wishes to your family~

Dr. Downing,
I would like to apologize for my post and its argumentative stance. I am on the other side of the adoption issue and dealing with stressed out parents with children that have severe RAD, FAS, ODD, PTSD, bipolar, etc... When dealing in these types of support groups most parents were given inaccuarte information or no information about the neglect, abuse, etc... that these children may have occured prior to being adopted and it happens with our US children also.

I think what upset me was the changed birth history (measurements should not be changed and if this happens even the best IA specialist can not make an accurate diagnosis especially in an infant -they do use these measurements to establish risk factors for certain disorders).

Maybe, Dr. Sveltana is not the culprit - yes, it could have been a translation error or even a simple typo error but, most adoptive parents make their decision and have only that medical reviewed because that is all they have so, it is extremely important that the medical is correct with accurate information.

It is important to try to match the parents wishes with a particular child (Mark, yes you may call this baby shopping but, it happens all the time I know of multiple families that have turned down multiple referrals until they found the child that would fit into their family - there is a lot of parents that can not handle a special needs child it happens here also with their own biological child.

I am glad you are not one of these - that is why God made us all different. Again, you can not compare your child to a child that has lived in an institutional setting that may have never been shown any love, nurturing, suffered from abuse, starvation and neglect some of these children can never learn to trust or bond with any one).

We (both Russia and US) are aware there is a problem with international adoptions - nobody is overseeing them currently and it is a big money making industry. Parents are getting very limited medical information and in Russia the medicals have a lot of "scary" diagnosis that we have to determine if it is a problem or not. I do believe something needs to be done - the dissolution rate is growing, families are been torn apart, children are getting abused and even killed (which is unacceptable). Truthfully, the agencies and the doctors giving medical information do need to be held accountable if the information is faulty which may help but, some thing does need to be done to protect the children.

Done with my lecture. Mark, your comments are worth nothing because unless you have dealt with child raging out of control or a parent at their wits end in what to do with that child that is disrupting a whole family unit, threatening to kill other members of that family or kill themselves you have not been where I have been.

Pam -

I am not trying to be argumentative. I admit doctors can make mistakes. Sometimes big mistakes.

But, the idea that Dr. Svetlana S. would intentionally mislead you is completely wrong. This sort of thing just does not happen with a physician of her level. I will say again that she is a careful physician, keeps very careful notes, thinks about every child, etc.

"Intentionally falsify" information? Never. Never.

There may be problems with this adoption ... need to look at all aspects. Parents, homestudy, expectations of parents, agency, Russian reps, specific Russian orphanage, advising physicians there and back home, Ministry officials, your reflections before decision, court, etc.

I just came across this rip off report on the net and wanted to respond. I am a social worker and a mother of an adopted daughter, from China. Prior to going to China we did a lot of research on many of the adoption programs available including the United States and Russia so I felt that before we chose China we had chosen the program that we felt met our needs.

Russia has a history of known problems with fetal alcohol syndrome and other medical history and thus we immediately ruled it out. When you are working with a foreign country there is no way to know that the child you receive will be perfect and have no defects. Even with China we knew that there was no way to be 100 percent positive that the child would be "normal".

Often times there is miscommunication on both parts. Cradle of Hope was the agency we chose and they were excellent and I have recommended them to my friends. I came to know of Cradle of Hope through other families.

I can not begin to understand what this family is going through, but as a social worker I have never known anyone to knowingly lie about something like this, it sounds more like a large miscommunication and unrealistic expectations of a process that is long, tedious and full of unknown elements - but one I have found to produce the greatest rewards.

You were not shopping. You were supposed to be creating your family. God help any kid stuck with you. 5 years down the road they may develop an issue. You'd most likely want to trade them in (or up if finances allowed).

Next time, buy a goldfish.

By the way, I am the father of a severly handicapped 19 year old girl. We are the reason her life is full and rich. We were willing to sacrifice much of our own.

You are a moral vaccum and should be kept far away from children.

Did you read the original post? You come to the defense of Dr. Svetlana. She is the one that gave inaccurate information by changing birth measurements and facts (HC reported 60% accurate measurement below the 10% which I assume is really below the 5%).

Reading the original post, there is a lot of red flags - one, the different medical history between Dr. Svetlana Shvetsova and Dr. Molokov (the orphanage doctor which should know the child better), two the court document given to INS instead of the adoptive parents prior to departure (never heard of this), and three orphanage doctor's medical report needed to be translated in the US after the adoption - none of these things are the normal practice.

In your own discussion forum date Thursday, January 03, 2002 - 12:36 am - you state "They (COH) employ two physicians in their Moscow office (Dr. Alexander Melnikov and Dr. Svetlana Shvetsova) to keep track, medically, of all referalls." In this post, you state " whether she is emloyed by COH or not is not material" - again, it is because she is the one that changed the child's medical history. Which of these post are accurate? Another point to consider, who got the $10,000 (the orphanage doctor stated in the court documents something was wrong so, with my background the fee should have been $4500 instead of $14,500 based on the age of the child)?

In reality, even parents that adopt a special needs child and know all the problems the dissolution rate of these children are 30%. Now, take parents that adopt a child that is not a special needs child and that child is do to FASD, microcephaly, etc... What happens??? What you are seeing!!!

By the way, I noticed you did not mention which country you are from - Canada.

I found this discussion by accident. I am one of the few people that think about adoption from Russia and family outcomes daily. Unfortunate outcomes occur. There can never be zero risk. Prospective parents know this and the my job, that of orphanage physicians, agencies and their representatives is to provide parents with enough accurate information to make their family decision. Parents are in the best position to know their family situation, their ability to accept risk, etc.

Physicians give advice and we try to do this in such a fashion that prospective parents understand. Sometimes this takes several conversations and parents vary. We try to do our best, but we cannot give a yes or no answer to parents about the decision to adopt. We can only provide our best medical input, our best medical opinion.

Unfortunate outcomes sometimes happen. Please do not think we are emotionally neutral. We all lose sleep about this.

This just an opening comment. I would not normally respond to a thread which has deteriorated so much from the original post.

I respond because my name and that of Dr. Svetlana Shvetsova were mentioned in the first post. I am not an employee of COH. Occasionally I have worked with them and been paid by them. I have worked with Dr. Svetlana many times. I am former Chief medical officer at both SOS International Medical Clinic and American Medical Center in Moscow. I have been a physician for 27 years. I have lived in Moscow for 11 years. I have been to 80% of the 275 orphanages in Russia and have dealed with almost all agencies.

Dr. Svetlana is an excellant clinician. She keeps complete and organized notes. She visits children many times. She gives professional opinions. She weighs out the facts. She advocates both for the children and the parents. I do not always agree with her, but we discuss medical issues in a completely normal professional manner. She is a real doctor. I would ask for and rely on her opinions. Whether she is employed by COH or not is not material. If employed by COH, all the credit to them.

Here i go again.

Emily wrote: "But no, not all developmental problems are born conditions. Have you not read the new study that links ADHD to regular TV watching? Sure made me feel bad for having my kids watch educational programming. I swear... rock and a hard place..."

Emily, i never said ALL developmental problems are born conditions. I said they are born with FAS, etc., because you can't get FAS unless the mother drinks while pregnant, As Pam has clearly stated.(Thanks for making it easy for her to comprehend Pam :). And Like i had said earlier Emily, you Can't believe everything you read or see. Not for one minute do i buy that ADHD is caused by regular TV watching, i don't and will not believe it unless there is scientific proof and it has been acknowledged. All it is right now is a theory and that's it.(I actually think that it's a chemical imbalance, but those are just my thoughts)People buy into the dumbest crap sometimes it's annoying. That's why so many kids are put on ritlin (although they are 100 percent fine) because so and so said he MUST have ADHD. I know of three cases personally and only one of them actually has ADHD. The other 2 were just dumb people assuming they knew what they were talking about. Anyways Emily, try to admit to your mistakes because people like you will never move forward in life. You can't set your mind to believe that what you think is right has to be right. It doesn't work like that. Most of the time it will come and kick you in the behind when you least expect it.

Emily, I am sorry but, I am tired of you calling Kim's son a "defective" child (your words not hers). I am also tired of you comparing an adoption to a louse meal in a restaurant (if you do not like such and such do not go back again). Please do not compare children as "lemons", "defective cars" or "animals". Truth be told, how does somebody undo an adoption??? Reading your information, you act like she should send her son back to Russia.

I also liked your comment "my sister is adopted from Mexico - I guess that makes it an international adoption". You did not adopt her did you - no, your parents did so, again you really do not know about international adoptions. By the way, your parents adopted her awhile ago and things have changed drastically since then.

On to international adoption (since that is my speciality especially EE countries), yes, there is a risk involved and FASD is a very high one but, there is a lot of children available for adoption that are healthy.

Based on the information that Kim gave in her first report, someone was trying to cover up something in giving wrong birth information which was the doctor that Cradle of Hope hired in Russia because the orphanage doctor gave the correct medical information (which they needed to have translated once back in the US - another red flag - it should have been translated in Russia for the family and INS) and with that information her child would have been a high risk for FASD (the one disorder she did not want to deal with for whatever reason which a lot of people do not want to due to its diversity).

On to FASD, it is a spectrum disorder to very mininal problems to extreme behavioral/medical problems. It is the leading cause of mental retardation in children. FAS is not passed down to a next generation (sorry, Emily you are wrong it is not caused by a defective gene the parent can pass down to their children - the only way you can have a child with FASD is if you DRANK ALCOHOL during a critical part during the embroyo's development).

Your sister that has FAS may have the facial features as a result of her mother drinking during her first trimester but, not the behavioral problems because her mother did not drink in the third trimester. Does your sister have cause-effect ability - most children with FASD do not which ends up being a huge problem. Another reality, is that one child with severe FASD can cost a family $3-5 million dollars to raise throughout their lifetime.

Last but, not least "love does not conquer all" and that is a main issue that adoptive parents need to understand. There is just some children that can NEVER live in a family situation and need to be put in residential treatment centers for everyone's safety. I am not saying Kim's son is that way but, he could - she does not talk much about what problems he has other than FASD, ARND, Autism and ADHD which could be a hand full for any parent let alone that she has other children that are adopted that may have issues also.

Did you ever think about that Emily? No, you are too busy explaining all the bad things in your family (your husband was abused, your children have ADHD, you have a disability ADHD, my birth mom has MS) but, you are perfect - I am a champion for the disabled (guess what - they do not need you because you can not get past yourself and the pain of your own adoption that is what I read in your post - you are probably are mad at Kim because she is trying to fight for her son and get him the help he needs).

To all adopive parents, there is some really good adoption agencies that try to match your desire with a child but, there is also the unscrupulous agencies that promise you things and are working both sides to get more money.

Michelle:

Like i said i was not trying to start an argument in any way. I just wanted to offer you a different point of view, that's it. I am really sorry that you were put under so much pressure by an agency. But i am glad to hear that you have your children and are able to raise them. Good luck with everything. :)

Michelle:

Like i said i was not trying to start an argument in any way. I just wanted to offer you a different point of view, that's it. I am really sorry that you were put under so much pressure by an agency. But i am glad to hear that you have your children and are able to raise them. Good luck with everything. :)

Michelle:

Like i said i was not trying to start an argument in any way. I just wanted to offer you a different point of view, that's it. I am really sorry that you were put under so much pressure by an agency. But i am glad to hear that you have your children and are able to raise them. Good luck with everything. :)

Sophie,
I have three children.
My oldest child is 7 years old (I had her when I was sixteen)
My second baby is 1 year old
and I have custody of my little brother who is 2 years old.
I only have a negative opinion of Adoption because of what I had gone through with my first daughter. I was put under a lot of pressure to give my baby up for adoption by the agency.

You know Emily I was wrong about you being a b***h, another more discriptive word comes to mind. you Cant Understand Normal Thinking. Additionaly you need to have a huge piece of humble pie. It must really be lonely being you. Well I'm glad I got the last word in with you, unless of course your a lier (you know you are) and this wasnt your last post.

Emily,

To be completely fair, I went back and tried to reread the whole thread a second time. I reread Sean's comments from OK, whom you claim to admire. I agree that he has a beautiful soul. He offers advice and encouragement. His tone is completely inoffensive and as such his words slip right in.

Emily, you encase your responses in so much venom and hatred, so many insults; that I honestly cannot bare to read them. I think that is the ONLY reason you have been attacked. There are many posts here with varying opinions, most of whom I can read and gain from; but yours I had to make myself at least Scan for the valuable parts. It's like digging thru sewage for recyclables. Much of what isn't venomous is full of self promotion, which is boring. I'm not the only one with this reaction:

" As such, I cannot continue to read the cretinous responses you have received. It gives me a headache and saddens my heart. It makes me so very angry that you have been personally attacked, by someone so uncultured..."
Jenifer 2/24/04

Lastly, you keep demanding of Kim that she never adopt. Didn't you read that this particular child is not her first, nor necessarily her last? She obviously has no problem with the "imperfections" of humanity, she only has a problem with the enormous and unconscionable lies of COH.

"I am not meant to adopt" - I think my children would disagree with that. Yes, they all know they are adopted because we do not want what happened to your friend to happen to my children. "My perfect dream is ruined" - no it has just be changed.
Kim, 2/22/04

Emily, I'm glad you won't be posting to this thread anymore. Your posts dominate the landscape here and they do not encourage people to think, they ecourage people to stop thinking and fight back.

Emily, you need professional help immediately. If I were you I would seek psychiatric care ASAP. You have no idea what you are talking about. Kim has every right to talk about her "son" without using his name. If I were posting about my child from this agency I would do the same so that many years from now he/she would be protected. You are a complete idiot. Internation Adoptions first off are very complicated and extremely expensive. Many agencies like Cradle of Hope, PROMISE a healthy child yet do not deliver what they have promised.

I know this to be a fact. I have seen it happen in my own immediate family. I know what it is to be adopted, I myself am adopted. So are two of my brothers and to top it off my parents then had 4 natural children, all girls after that.

None of us were treated any differently. My brothers and sisters were all treated alike and loved equally. In fact, when I decided to search for my biological family which I did locate and was reunited with my biological brothers, my parents had since past on, my adopted parents were 100% supportive and have since welcomed my biological brothers into our family as if they were part of our family since day one. Now of course this was a state side adoption done through Catholic Charities over 40 years ago.

I am not psychologically damaged from being adopted, I was always told I was adopted, in fact my parents told me I was special, that they got to choose ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The orginal post was a complaint against the agency about not fullfilling a contract. Maybe Kim should have left out the details about her child so that you would have never shown up on this board. You are an idiot that needs to be committed to a mental facility and kept there until such time as your medication can be regulated. Thank God that was your last post. It would have been nice if your last post was an apology to Kim as it should have been. If you had noticed others did apologize but you have not.

Sophie

Humans are not evolving? Okay, yeah whatever... I guess we are not getting taller after all. I guess knights of the dark ages were reaching six foot? I don't think so... we are getting taller it is just really slow. I am 6'1" and a thousand years ago would have been considered a giantess.

Yes, I am educated. Not because it got handed to me, but because I seek it out and constantly try to educate myself. If that means I think I am better than someone who sits around and has unfounded opinions because they don't care to research a subject...but gets along with the masses... then yes I think I am better than that. But I think potentially everyone is.

There are some people who agree with me, and there are more who won't state that because they don't want to get attacked like I did. I am not afraid to be fried by the people who don't agree with me.

My husband was also raised in a home with incredible abuse. Not only was he regularly beaten, but he often got in the way of his drunk father beating his brother (on purpose) and took the beating for him. In fact taking the "punishments" of two lives onto his small shoulders. He also doesn't have any developmental disorders. But he does have several psychological issues. When he gets mad he yells, never swears or insults, but yells, loud enough to echo off mountains a good way off. And whenever anyone insinsuates that he is wanting in any area he takes it as a personal attack. Because in his family growing up... it was. What you don't seem to realize is that sometimes people who are abusive still love their kids in their own way. (Not that they should be allowed access to a child they abuse).And as long as on a fairly regular basis a child is lovingly stimulated by at least one parent... developmental problems aren't a big issue. But no, not all developmental problems are born conditions. Have you not read the new study that links ADHD to regular TV watching? Sure made me feel bad for having my kids watch educational programming. I swear... rock and a hard place...

I do think it is sad though that your husband was abused. That is never acceptable. But it is not "usual" for people raised like that to end up lowlives. It just happens that most often those people happen to be from homes that fit that profile, i.e. an apple is a fruit, but not all fruit is apples. Your husband and mine prove that is not the case. My husband also is a doting father. Perhaps they give their children what they always wanted, so in fact their trials strengthened them...

Pat

Okay, I know the agency "did wrong", did you not read my posts at all, or did you chose to ignore that in most of them. I think the agency should be closed and lawsuits filed. Got that? Shall I say it a few more times, this gets really tiring. Now this isn't just any company is it? It's product is human beings. The "consumer" is upset because she got a defective human being. That is what I resent. I weighed in with the opinion from inside the ring of adoption and children with disabilities. DON'T ADOPT. If the product was a defective car that was cranked out in the high ninety percentile with major problems and I said don't buy that car it would be fine. I don't understand what is pretty simple to me. Adoption is not a perfect experience, I believe the best of agencies lie. I do not agree with it and fully believe that they should be punished when they do. But you do not get a "perfect" experience with adoption... ever. My comment was to her and no one else. Don't adopt again. I would not attack you because you did not attack me.

Juanita

No, I do not championship stupidity at all. I champion those who are disabled or naive through no fault of their own, for an example of the last class I would say people in third world countries who have no access to anyone to intellectually better themselves... something like that. Anyone who purposely remains uninformed I have no sympathy for at all. I guess... honestly I despise them as a slovenly and dispicable class of people. To learn is the purpose of life, we begin doing it as infants and continue to throughout our lives. Or until we get too lazy to care. But really I don't think the educated are truly better than anyone other for that reason. They feed their brain, as they feed their body.

As to what you know about me I would think that the additional posts would have provided a lot more information. But apparently many people don't read them all. Read the first few and attack. That is mass human reaction isn't it. Attack what is different... what doesn't fit in.

Michelle

Thank you for your agreement... kinda. I am not against adoption though. I am against people who have unrealistic expectations of the adoption experience adopting. But atleast you see what I am getting at.


Deb

I would say that she did read the first post. It is the first post that infuriated me. And guess what? It did her too. But thank you for confirming my opinion that anyone strongly agreeing with me will be attacked. I guess she is "as bad as me", huh? What a bunch of sheep you are.... say baa...

Nancy

I really don't care who you know, on or off this post. The people I read this too usually don't have access to a computer to make their responses. I don't know anyone on this forum in the real world. I really don't care that you do.

Thank you for proving that you are incapable of coming up with anything original as an insult. I hope you didn't exhaust your total vocabulary on my account. I mean please... that term had already been applied to me. Say baa...

Congratulations on your surgury! I am thrilled that you no longer need a wheelchair. Obviously you sucked at accepting your disability with grace or dignity. You chose to be bitter at the world because it was obvious you had a "condition". I guess you are still stuck in that "rage" stage of greiving. So many people find that easier than advancing to the other steps.

I smile at everyone who makes eye contact, I just make sure to smile at the disabled because too many people avoid their eyes because they don't know how to "deal" with their disability. Believe me I have no desire to smile at you. And as to your insult... shouldn't you have started off with "hi pot, this is kettle... you're black"?


This will be my last post. Because all I seem to be accomplishing is to fan flames of anger. If I felt I was reaching anyone that mattered I would continue with the debate. But it is scarcely a debate anymore. I really don't care to trade insults with people I don't know, and most of whom I don't care to.

I stand by my first statement. I understand the agency was wrong and you were taken advantage of, which should not have happened. I also understand that you are upset because you got a "defective" child. I will have to assume there is some connection there because you haven't placed him somewhere else. But you have never claimed to love him, although several people rush to your defense to say that you do.

You are never guaranteed a "perfect" child. Because there is no such thing, there is no such thing as normal, not really. No he wouldn't have FAS if you had had him, but he could have had a host of other conditions if you had.

I truly hope that one day you can say to anyone... to the world... I love my son. Feeling safe, secure and loved in their home is supposed to be a given right for children. They need to know we love them, they need to hear it all the time, over and over. Especially when a child is knowingly adopted you need to make sure that child feels that they are secure. My birthmother who is also adopted used to try to do the worst things she could think of because she truly believed her adoptive parents would get rid of her when she did. Not very rational, but who is as a young child? I also hope you find peace. But I do suggest you quit calling him "the child" as it is a legal term that is used by lawyers in orde to create a detachment from a child in certain court cases, such as paternity suits when it is being contested.

But I admit I was wrong... don't get a dog.

Michelle:

I sincerely apologize for responding to you as I did. It was petty and provoking; not aimed towards agreement.

I'm impressed by your ability to self-correct. I'm afraid you wouldn't have been inclined to if my response had appeared before you submitted yours.

Michelle:

I sincerely apologize for responding to you as I did. It was petty and provoking; not aimed towards agreement.

I'm impressed by your ability to self-correct. I'm afraid you wouldn't have been inclined to if my response had appeared before you submitted yours.

Michelle:

I sincerely apologize for responding to you as I did. It was petty and provoking; not aimed towards agreement.

I'm impressed by your ability to self-correct. I'm afraid you wouldn't have been inclined to if my response had appeared before you submitted yours.

Michelle:

I sincerely apologize for responding to you as I did. It was petty and provoking; not aimed towards agreement.

I'm impressed by your ability to self-correct. I'm afraid you wouldn't have been inclined to if my response had appeared before you submitted yours.

Michelle:

I'm glad you saw the topic for what it was and i'm sure Kim will appreciate your apology.

Now on my part, In my previous post i stated that most people raised in abusive environments usually turn out to be murderers, rapists and all around low-lives. I don't mean low-lives because of how they were raised, that was something they couldn't help, after all they were just children at the time. What i meant was "low-lives" for rapists, murderers, etc. I wanted to correct this in case someone misunderstood it. :)

I apoligize for being so rude. I understand that the real issue is you being mislead and lied to.

You should inform your psychiatrist that you're feeling out of control again. It looks like you need another increase in meds.

Michelle:

Do you have children? A child? Do you know that when you have children the first and foremost thing you worry about is their health? You hope from the moment you find out you're pregnant or adopting until the moment they are born or finally bring them home that thay will be healthy. This is talking about a person who doesn't drink, smoke, or do drugs during the pregnancy. Even after they are born you are in constant worry that something will "come up".

You hope it doesn't. But you and only you (the parents)know your child and of course you are going to be the first to "diagnose" it (but of course not literally). If something happens to come up after they are born, of course you're going to take him/her to a doctor. It's perfectly normal. If the doctor finds something and he/she cannot treat it, they usually refer you to a specialist. If the "specialist" finds something else, they'll send you to another specialist and so on and so forth. That's why people (i.e.: Kim) most likely go from specialist to specialist.

I'm pretty sure they hope the first doctor they take him/her to can diagnose and treat the problem but it doesn't work like that in the real world. That's why there are doctors for everything imaginable because one person alone wouldn't be able to handle so much. I mean the "testing" starts from the moment your pregnancy is confirmed. They have all sorts of blood tests and diabetes tests and there's even more if you're older and a "greater risk" is present.

My mother lost a child 15 years ago due to some testing that was done because she was over 35 when she got pregnant. That's besides the point though, all i'm trying to say is that testing occurs on the healthy and the challenged. It's a part of life but you do it so you can offer the best that you can to your child, regardless of "issues". Keep in mind that i'm not trying to argue with you that i'm just stating my opinion on how i see it. I guess that's the way you might see it but i just wanted to offer you a different point of view. If you agree that's fine and if you don't that's fine also.

One last note, my husband was raised in a very non-loving home, well his mother tried but it was hard because of his father. He was beaten everyday from the time he was 3 until the time he left his house at 17. You cannot begin to imagine the abuse he received as a child. Both mentally and physically. Yet he has no developmental issues, none whatsoever. He is actually the greatest dad to our daughter. Usually people raised in environments such as his turn out to be murderers, rapists just all around low lives. The majority doesn't develop FAS, etc. because they are not loved, they are born with it. I understand Kim 100 percent and i'm sure she is a loving and nurturing mother regardless of her child's problems.

Michelle, you are as bad as Emily. Neither one of you have read the original post correctly. Kim is NOT talking about her child. She is talking about the adoption agency and the lies that they have told. She loves her child very much. This post has nothing to do with the love and care she gives to her child, it has to do with the lies and problems with the AGENCY. Please do everyone a favor and read the orginal post first before responding!!!!!!

I did a rebuttal to this the other night and it obviously didn't go thru. Let's try this again. LOL.

Emily, did you ever think that maybe David and I might know each other in real life? Maybe he talked to me about this report? Sucks don't it, you are wrong again. I DID say that to him when he and I spent some time together last month. YOU are the one mistaken, not him.

Since the time you and I first had it out towards the beginning of this report, I have noticed your other rebuttals thruout this website. You are a nasty b***h on all of those reports too. Are you ever nice to anyone?

BTW, now that I've recovered from the last surgery I had I no longer need the wheelchair .. you can stop smiling at me now. *smirk*

I feel really sorry for that child, by the time your through with him he'll be swallowing 15 different types of medication a day.

You treat this child like you bought a "lemon" from an automotive dealer.

I'm not saying that this child doesn't have developmental issues, but maybe the develpomental problems are from living without love in a run-down orphanage or being taken from the only place he does know (the orphanage), to go across the country, to you, who takes him to specialist after specialist, because YOU know that something is wrong with him.

Of Course something's wrong with him, YOU.

Give the child a chance to learn to love & trust.

People like you are the reason that it is hard for me to support adoption.

Maybe there's a reason that you couldn't have your own.

Your first words to a struggling and desperate new mother, who was Reporting A Crime:

"I should think it is obvious why he isn't devloping. You aren't involved with him, you don't love him enough... You are why he is failing.
...Get a dog!"
Emily - Wichita, Kansas
U.S.A., 5/21/2003

After more than a year, these words are still the first, and for many, the ONLY thing we know about you. Since that time, the insults you sling around are based on the idea that the less intelligent are to be mocked and loathed; yet you claim to champion that very class of people.

I recommend you do some soul searching, Emily. You'll know you're beginning to grow when you see that a humble apology is still required of you.

Emily,

I have never posted on these threads (sorry ED) to chastise anyone, but OMG, I have to say something here. I ask that you step back for a moment, put aside the issue of adopting children with disabilities, and think about what Kim was actually trying to do here.

She contracted a company to provide a service, to which she had specific requirements. The company did not fulfill their obligation and Kim felt she had been misled by this company. Hence her entry here. She is simply trying to share her bad experience with others in the hopes that they do not experience the same.

Plain and simple.

To quote your own example, "Okay, boys and girls, what we are talking about here is "clowns who drive blue trucks". We don't want to discuss clowns in general, we don't want to discuss trucks in general. We are not interested in your thoughts as a clown, or your thoughts about trucks. We are specifically discussing clowns who drive blue trucks. We don't to discuss the process by which trucks work. We don't want to discuss how one becomes a clown. Or if a truck has to be blue to be a truck. Got it?"

What we are talking about here is a company that did not provide the services they promised. Nothing more, nothing less.

Any personal attacks will be given their due attention, and be promptly ignored.

Emily,

I have never posted on these threads (sorry ED) to chastise anyone, but OMG, I have to say something here. I ask that you step back for a moment, put aside the issue of adopting children with disabilities, and think about what Kim was actually trying to do here.

She contracted a company to provide a service, to which she had specific requirements. The company did not fulfill their obligation and Kim felt she had been misled by this company. Hence her entry here. She is simply trying to share her bad experience with others in the hopes that they do not experience the same.

Plain and simple.

To quote your own example, "Okay, boys and girls, what we are talking about here is "clowns who drive blue trucks". We don't want to discuss clowns in general, we don't want to discuss trucks in general. We are not interested in your thoughts as a clown, or your thoughts about trucks. We are specifically discussing clowns who drive blue trucks. We don't to discuss the process by which trucks work. We don't want to discuss how one becomes a clown. Or if a truck has to be blue to be a truck. Got it?"

What we are talking about here is a company that did not provide the services they promised. Nothing more, nothing less.

Any personal attacks will be given their due attention, and be promptly ignored.

Emily,

I have never posted on these threads (sorry ED) to chastise anyone, but OMG, I have to say something here. I ask that you step back for a moment, put aside the issue of adopting children with disabilities, and think about what Kim was actually trying to do here.

She contracted a company to provide a service, to which she had specific requirements. The company did not fulfill their obligation and Kim felt she had been misled by this company. Hence her entry here. She is simply trying to share her bad experience with others in the hopes that they do not experience the same.

Plain and simple.

To quote your own example, "Okay, boys and girls, what we are talking about here is "clowns who drive blue trucks". We don't want to discuss clowns in general, we don't want to discuss trucks in general. We are not interested in your thoughts as a clown, or your thoughts about trucks. We are specifically discussing clowns who drive blue trucks. We don't to discuss the process by which trucks work. We don't want to discuss how one becomes a clown. Or if a truck has to be blue to be a truck. Got it?"

What we are talking about here is a company that did not provide the services they promised. Nothing more, nothing less.

Any personal attacks will be given their due attention, and be promptly ignored.

Emily,

I have never posted on these threads (sorry ED) to chastise anyone, but OMG, I have to say something here. I ask that you step back for a moment, put aside the issue of adopting children with disabilities, and think about what Kim was actually trying to do here.

She contracted a company to provide a service, to which she had specific requirements. The company did not fulfill their obligation and Kim felt she had been misled by this company. Hence her entry here. She is simply trying to share her bad experience with others in the hopes that they do not experience the same.

Plain and simple.

To quote your own example, "Okay, boys and girls, what we are talking about here is "clowns who drive blue trucks". We don't want to discuss clowns in general, we don't want to discuss trucks in general. We are not interested in your thoughts as a clown, or your thoughts about trucks. We are specifically discussing clowns who drive blue trucks. We don't to discuss the process by which trucks work. We don't want to discuss how one becomes a clown. Or if a truck has to be blue to be a truck. Got it?"

What we are talking about here is a company that did not provide the services they promised. Nothing more, nothing less.

Any personal attacks will be given their due attention, and be promptly ignored.

Emily you're making a fool of yourself. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I really don't understand how you get so offended. I wasn't the least bit phased by what you said (you know the trying to insult me part) It didn't bother me at all. Yet you continue to try to "fight" with people, it amazes me that you take it to heart. Anyways David was trying to state a point, which i understood. He's right you do need to get over yourself. Oh and stop trying to sound smart, it's kind of obvious you don't know what you're talking about. For one humans are not getting taller or evolving, that's a lie i'm sure you read or watched somewhere, hey unless you're a doctor with the correct education to make that analyses. Remember you can't always believe what you see or read. Anyways back to David... he may speak as he wishes, as may i. I quote you: "I guess the educated intimidate you" Who you??? Please. What exactly do you do for a living? Come on the internet looking to pick a fight, trying to insult and trying to tell people how "wrong" it is not call their son by their name? Oh! that's right you're going to school to get your PHD in Child Psychology. If so, please act a bit more educated than you have in the past. Go back reread all posts and see how many people agree with you, not many, then see how many people though you were arrogant and just plain rude. That ought of open your eyes a bit and if it doesn't i don't know what else to do to make you realize you're being rude. I thought you were supposed to be open and not read into people to be a psychologist? Just Seriously stop.

David

I do not claim to be some kind of super mutant human or better than anyone. Why don't you climb out of your comic books and come into the real world?

I said I believe that ADHD is the next step in human evolution. Does that threaten you? Humans are evolving... in case you haven't noticed we are getting taller for one. I am sure you wouldn't notice the others until someone starts walking through walls or spitting flames. But I think X-Men are a long way off...

It wasn't Nancy who said that I belonged on the Tupper Lake board. It was I who said that was where this belonged. I guess you can't read either, huh? With your astoundingly broad vocabulary (falling back on a profanity that is known in the early years of grade school) I shouldn't be suprised. I guess the educated intimidate you and you have to respond with pathetic "attacks" such as this. Keep reading those comic books, maybe some day you will graduate to reading actual books without pictures.

Emily your about a long winded b***h and soooooooooooo need to get over yourself. You claim your some kind of superior mutant human so why not pick a name like Rouge or Storm or some cool X-Man name besides frumpy ole Emily. I mean if your going to be better than all of us do it right please. Your mutation doesn't sound like its on the upward swing in evolution, s Kim was just warning us all of this agency. Get a life and please stay off the computer. You might hurt yourself. Like Nancy said your posts would be better served in the Tupper Lake threads. There you will find people that might actually care what you have to say unlike here.

I was barren for 12 years before I went to a fertility clinic, so I totally understand your desire for a child.

I hoped and prayed for healthy children - twins. I wanted healthy twins. Intelligent, beautiful, sweet natured. One girl, one boy. My looks, my husband's practicality.

Can't I sign up for that on a form somewhere?? OH. I can only do that if I adopt.
;-)

Obviously, a healthy child is lower maintainance, lower cost, and yet equally fulfilling.

I was given beautiful twins, intellegent, two boys. One with bipolar disorder and the other with dyslexia. I love them with all my heart and I willing go to the ends of the earth to find a way to meet their needs. OF COURSE! What mother wouldn't.

I took the course I chose, knowing the only parameters were the DNA between my husband and myself. You took the couse you chose, knowing the only parameters would be the few things you could specify on a piece of paper.

We each set out on a journey, usually with a few "givens". You were lied to and I understand that frustration.

I have no doubt you love the child in your arms. I also feel wronged in your behalf that the few things you asked for were promised and not delivered.

God bless you on your journey. NOBODY has the right to judge your frustration. [DELETED]

All i have to say is you're funny! funny! funny! Quite the character. How are you going to tell me to reply to the original poster and only to the original poster? So in other words if i'm having a conversation with someone about....let's say fish, and the conversation then goes into the topic of birds, should i continue talking about fish? No... i didn't think so, but then again, you don't think.

You can TRY to insult me all you want it is NOT going to work, i'm not that easily offended, mainly due to the fact that i don't know you and i could care less of what you think of me. I actually find it quite amusing that you let opinions from others (over the internet mind you) bother you so much. But hey that's you. I'm actually just replying to let you know. Maybe you should go back and read all your previous posts and so you can see why i said what i said. You did look like quite the idiot, you know?

Anyways good luck, you'll actually need it with that attitude and all your blah blah blah. I'm off to watch my Jerry Springer....great show you know? ha ha.

Life isn't fair. Most people who find out that they are going to be biological parents first wonder if it is a boy or girl. No one stops to think if the baby has the right number of chromosomes or if the central nervous system is developing correctly. The same thing goes to adopting parents, especially when they are buying a child. They want the best. After all, you don't go to a Mercedes Benz dealership, spend thousands of dollars and accept a car that has scratches and faulty wiring or a leaky transmition so why should you do the same for a child. Does a child come with a 18 year 500,000 mile money back warranty?

Sophie

I understand the topic implicitly you imbecile. You are not supposed to respond to the posts that are given to the original poster. You are supposed to respond with comments to the original poster. I have repeatedly said they were wrong for lying and should be shut down or disciplined, obviously some litigious action is in order. I do not believe an adoption agency should be able to lie to anyone, ever. An adoption agency's probity should be above reproach, because their business is people's lives.You two bit idiot, try to stick to the subject. Or shall I say it in small words? I AM NOT THE SUBJECT you obstreperous talk show junkie, Kim and the adoption of her son are. The subject can be summed up as "I ate at Joe's restaurant and I had a horrible terrible experience there, my whole perception of a hamburger is ruined because I got food poisoning." and my response is quite simple, but apparently above your limited intellect. "So don't eat there EVER EVER again, and avoid hamburgers in the future if it is so terrible." The point of this forum is to give opinions and insight into a problem. Not attack the responders for their opinion. The next time you have a desire to objurgate a person who has nothing to do with you go back to watching Jerry Springer so you can yell obscenities at the TV. It is much more your level. Your salvo has no effect on me whatsoever but to prove that the average IQ level is dropping. Your RANTINGS as you call them belie the fact that you are intellectually inept. The rumint you have provided, if one dares call it that, has no actual informative aspect to it whatsoever. So as one would say, save it.

Yes, it is normal to want healthy children, one more time for the slow people. No, it is not alright to act as if a human being is damaged merchandise. I read this entire series of post to my birthmother to see what she thought of the whole thing verbatim. She started sobbing and said, "Oh Emily, what if you had ended up with someone who treated you like that, who referred to you like... an object. THAT IS EVERY BIRTHMOTHER'S WORST FEAR!"

Why pray tell would you judge your friend for having an ADHD child and seeking treatment? Quite frankly it is not YOUR business until she seeks advice from you, whether personally or in open forum such as this. At which point it is your position to offer advice, if you aren't still in the bedroom afraid of offending someone by JUDGING between your shoes for the day's attire. It is literally impossible to not make judgment calls on anything at anytime. You are so concerned about having an open mind that your brain fell out and you left it behind. I did not miss that she still has her son, did you miss that she refers to a disrupted adoption that occurred previous to this one? Has it occurred to you that she just isn't sure what she is doing, that she is scared and overwhelmed and isn't really committed to any choice of action at this time? Obviously not. Are you even aware that children with disabilities who go through something as traumatizing as a disrupted adoption usually regress to worse than they were to begin with. Are you aware that a lack of attention, of love, can actually kill infants and children. That in orphanages around the world where these children are not held and feel loved they literally turn their little faces toward the wall and die? For no known medical reason...

I thought not. My contiguous position in regards to adoption of disabled children is where I speak from; also as an adoptee who also came through an agency and discovered lies in the logistics involved in my own adoption. I don't see where you have anything useful to provide at all.


Nikki

Yes you are absolutely right Kim obvious doesn't feel she should have gotten a disabled child, possible feels she can't handle him, and if she thinks that then she is right. And again she should give him up to someone who will love him, and she should not adopt again, because there is no such thing as the perfect child. There are tons of options that cost less than adoption does. She could get a cacophony of medical treatments that could assist her in conceiving or she could have a surrogate mother. There are many different options. Obviously the faulted state of adoption even without COH does not work for her. Although obviously the odds of this happening were greater with such a morally inept agency it could still have happened with another agency, or if she had birthed her son herself. There are no tests to detect everything that might go wrong. I also want what is best for their family. And I strongly feel that if she feels she cannot handle him that he should be given up. She is a big girl, and what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Yes, she has learned a horrible painful lesson. That no one should ever have to learn. She is disappointed with her adoption experience and who can blame her? So nip it in the bud before it becomes even more damaging to the completely innocent person in this situation, her son.

Clarissa

Thank you so much for understanding where I am going with all of this. The only difference from what you interpreted and what I meant are that I realize maybe she cannot suck it up, maybe she cannot deal with it. If that is the case her son deserves better. Other than that you hit the nail on the head.

S.n.

How you feel about animals is exactly where I was gong with this adoption. Children as well as animals are feeling creatures. Treating them like damaged goods because they have a few faults is not acceptable. I would also like to extend to you my thanks in your work with animals. Since moving to Kansas I have seen more animal cruelty than I imagined possible. Being from Seattle I thought there were laws against most of it here too. But I was wrong. We adopted a puppy of mixed ancestry, but appearing to be largely chow, who we had witnessed being brutally attacked by a man who was trying to train his pit bull to fight by tearing apart this innocent infant. We took her even though it was a bad time for us because the local shelter told us that she would be destroyed after three days of not being adopted because she was chow. With a huge swollen black eye I knew no one would want her. Unfortunately the attack was more damaging than we knew, her attacker had ruptured her stomach when kicking her and after a time where my children grew to love her dearly she died suddenly and apparently without cause until the final 48 hours. We buried her beneath the sunflowers on the prairie where we would pass her often on our travels. We had named her Courage for the hell she had been through, and none of us will ever forget her. Thank you for your work with the animals who need advocates so badly. Your propinquity in this matter both in location and character greatly comforts me.

Mellisa

Who ever got into religion? You want to drag that up? Okay, here goes...I believe that disabled children and adults are dear to God. I believe when He gathered the children near Him he was setting an example of how children are to be treated. I think when He said we should be like little children He meant how little children don't look at someone with disabilities as less, they look at them as a playmate, just different. That they find the smallest thing to take joy in, where adults tend to look at the gloomy side far too often. I have never been taught to think I was better than anyone else. I consider myself more informed on a lot of subjects which I have pursued, but not better. Honestly if my love of Epistemology annoys you I really couldn't care less. I also prayed my babies would be healthy, which I actually do consider them to be. I believe God made them how they are for a reason, and that my greatest calling in life is to be their mother and help them overcome their difficulties. I believe any parent who has a child with disabilities is gifted with that child by the Creator, even if it doesn't feel that way. I feel that as a parent I should also learn from my children, and their struggles. That this is a large part of being a parent regardless of what function level of child you have. I believe that how you treat your children is grave responsibility given you by God, and that He will not be kind to those that hurt His little ones. I believe that serial neglect is as damaging or worse to a child than physical damage, because the physical heals. But I don't think any child should ever have to suffer from any form of neglect or abuse. Obviously you disagree.

P.S. I know far more atheist who believe they are always right, than I have ever met of any other religion that follow such thoughts. Your attempts to cast tenebrific shadows over this issue are successful. Give yourself a pat on the back. Quixotic points of view are prone to doing that though aren't they?

It's so sad that this has happened to you. When I was pregnant with my daughter I prayed for a healthy baby. That's all any parent wants. When they turn out to be "special" for some reason, we adapt out of necessity because we love the baby anyway. I think you're a great mom....don't listen to any more of this nonsense. Some people here think that they're always right and with all the answers because their religion has taught them to be that way. You can't reason with them because they think that they are smarter than everyone else and also because they have too much time on their hands.
P.S. Gabriel, will you marry me???

Kim, you are completely right about the agency. A very good friend of mine used COH for an adoption for a child in China. She was extremely lucky compaired to the other parents that were part of her group. Her daughter by the luck of God was healthy and the information was partially truthful. She did NOT need a translator due to the fact that she originally came from China, so they really could not pull much on her, however many of the other families were not as lucky. I will tell you, that the first couple of months back home were awful for her. Her daughter did not take well to the food or anything. She originally planned to take only 6 weeks off of work, ended taking over 2 months off. It was difficult on her and her husband. When she heard that my husband and I were thinking, just thinking about adoption internationally, she said just stay away from COH, they are trouble from the word go. I know for awhile there China shut down adoptions, don't know if they have reopened them up, but still I personally would go somewhere else to adopt other than COH. I know what my friend went through and the other families and it is not right. You are not given the complete truth, the translators are not there for YOUR benefit! Unless you know the language bring your own translator. They claim to work for COH but they work for the government of the country and COH. Whose best interest is it in? Not the soon to be parents. They need your money and they need the bed for another child. Be very careful.

My heart goes out to you Kim. There must be some agency out there that regulates this type of firm. They should lose their license for international adoptions. It is illegal to fraudulently mess with medical paperwork. COH knows this and should have stepped forward immediately. They were to represent YOU and failed. I am so sorry you and your family have had to go through all of this. I know you love your child with all of your heart and will love him forever but I also understand this is not what you had requested from COH. Russia itself is very tricky to adopt from, they lie, cheat, etc to get the adotions through. I am so sorry. Unfortunately, I do know about Russian adoptions. Have seen it first hand through my own family, but through another agency. First child was healthy. The second 2 are questionable but were told to be 100% healthy. Once again lies about medical history. It is partially the adoption agency's fault but mostly the Russian government. Just how they are!

Please take the best care of your son. It is what our family is doing with the last 2 from Russia, nothing more that we can do. At least we got them out of that horrible country. But I do agree with you 100% that COH is an awful company.

I agree that what this agency did was wrong. I would also like to remind the original poster that she may never be able to adopt "a perfect child" because there aren't that many healthy babies out there for adoption and the waiting liss are long. I do not rescue human children, I rescue human animals. These animals, dogs, rabbits, and rodents, are easily disposed of by owners that didn't realize that it takes time, effort and training to have a well behaved, well adjusted animal in the household. When I come across a person looking for a "perfect" animal, I tell them to get a stuffed toy.

They can sit it on a shelf, dust it off once in awhile and never have to pay attention to it. Now that I've gotten my animal rant out of my system, I have to tell you about a woman I met with a young daughter. I was very impressed that the child, about 10, was so well behaved. I remarked to this woman how wonderful the child was and she then told me they had only had her a few years. She was adopted. She had a heart condition and had gone through many surgeries.

I met another family who adopted a canine from one of my rescue orgainizations. This family had three children. The children were very well behaved. I did not find out until later that the middle child had a disability and she would never mentally be an adult. All three children were their children, no adoptions. What impressed me most about this family was that they considered all THREE of their children "perfect".

I guess this is to everyone who is ganging up on Emily and not commenting on the issue brought up. First off I want to say that I do not think that it was right for the agency to mislead the couple into getting a child that they didn't want. Mabye they just couldn't handle the chalenges that a disabled child can bring. I also can see where Emily is coming from. I don't see her as condoning the agency, I guess she's telling the OP (orginal poster) that this could have happened even giving birth to the child and to just suck it up, love the child and get on with your life. Everyone else who's bashing her, and calling her stupid and to shut up are just pots calling the kettle black. When I see hypocrites, I just have to say something. Instead of bashing Emily, give support to Kim. And Kim, I do feel for you and I would feel the same way,if this happened to me, but don't love your son any less. It's not his fault.

Emily:

As SO many have stated, you truly did not understand the topic here (or chose to overlook it) So I will qoute what you said *sigh*.....

"What we are discussing is adoption OF disabled children. We aren't discussing adoption as a whole"

Now, maybe this time you will understand, Kim was/is upset at the adoption agency for LYING! That was the original post, YOU turned it into this whole deal about disabled children.(yes the child she adopted ended up being disabled but that was besides the point, until you came along) How DARE you judge other people on what they want and how they choose to live or how they choose to phrase things????

Who are you to say what people presume as perfect or normal???? All your ranting and raving is just that. Good for you for having disabled children and taking care of them, but don't judge others on how they choose to live or what they want. I myself would not want a disabled child(for my own reasons that i do not need to share with you) and you know what? THAT IS NORMAL.

There's many people i know who feel the same way, including my friend who has a 5 yr. old with ADHD and still undergoing tests to find out what else might be wrong. I don't judge her it's her decision and everyone here is entitled to their opinion and choices.

I'll state once again, you had and have no right to judge Kim, who adopted her SON when he was 14-15 months old, and started taking him to the doctor at 19 months old, (obviously knowing something was wrong) Even up until she found out for sure that something was wrong, i'm sure she herself could've given him up for adoption here in the states and, um, SHE DIDN'T.... which shows she does care for her SON...Although he is disabled.

THAT SHOULD'VE BEEN ENOUGH TO SHUT YOU UP. But through all your rants and raves you missed that right? You state you are alot older so please act your age. People like you literally disgust me. ....judging and not knowing.

I have read the original post and some of the responses and I decided to add my own opinion. I have 6 children, and I think Emily has misunderstood the issue here. The issue is that this woman was lied to, and decieved. If this post was about the details of her son'd disabilities, then she probably would have talked about him differently, however, this was about the adoption agency's deception and lies. No one has the right to look down on her for not wanting a child with special needs. Some people don't do well in situations like that, and should not be looked down on for it.

She wanted a healthy, "normal" child, and that's what she should have gotten. What has happened here is the adoption agency has put the child in a situation where there is a good chance he could have been abused, not by his adoptive parents, but what if he was placed in a home where the mother or father just couldn't handle him? If adoptive parents specify that they do not want a "special needs" child, this should be respected, and for the childs best interest...should have been honored. Instead of insulting this woman for complaining, I think we should look at the fact that she KEPT he child and appears to be doing everything she can for him. Her issue is not with her child, it is with the adoption agency. Having a specical needs child changes your life in ways that some people are not prepared for, and to place a special needs child in a home with parents who knew they did not want one was immoral and wrong. And that is what we should be focused on, NOT the question o0f whether she loves this child or not. If she didn't love him, she could have easily given him back, or put him in foster care...but she still has him, give the woman credit. As far as Emily goes, I think she was overcome by the thought that the mother didn't want the child and maybe treated him accordingly....But this does not seem to be the case. My point here is this, putting your time, effort and money into getting a child who is normal, and then getting a child who has special needs is a giant blow to a person's emotions. She has every right to request a child without special needs, whether we agree or not. She is the one who is going to be devoting her life to him, not us. Now she has been put in a situation where she is being forced to live a life style that she didn't feel she was prepared for...thats wrong and that agency should have serious concequences to face. I wish her the best, and hope that whatever the outcome is, that it is in the best interests of her, her husband and the child.

I am a mother to a disable child . he has MANY things wrong with him. BUT has a lot right with him 2 ;)
Keep your head high and love that baby with all you got! and miracles can and will happen =) What they did 2 you was horriable. But remember when you first decided to adopt you wanted a baby to love :) (hugs) and you got that! :) hugs to you this wil be a hard road to go down But you can and will be ok :)

No... it wasn't about adoption of a disabled person. I felt that you needed to realize the situation that you are putting yourself in is self defeating. But apparently you don't care and intend to keep on going the way you are. I was speaking to you, only you, and everyone jumped in. If you had posted that you didn't like a restaurant and went on to some extent about it I would have said the same thing (i.e. don't go there, obviously it was a horrible experience for you, so don't repeat it). Take your satisfaction on the company. (I have never said that what they did was right. I guess you get some sort of happiness out of hearing that, since I have said it several times). How would I categorize the birthmother...? One messed up woman; she has some problems... some big ones. What you tell your son is that his birth parents were not ready to be parents. It is obviously true if she couldn't stop drinking or using drugs, or sleeping around, or whatever. Again every adoption is a triad, whether the birthparents were involved or not, even if the child is ripped from what could have been a loving home completely against the birthparent's wishes. This isn't some kind of an emotional thing, the triad is made of physical members, the people who created the child, the people who will love and raise it, and the child itself. It is in every single adoption. I have not adopted a child? Well... not myself I suppose, I have just walked through the process with several different families including my own. Did I not mention that my sister is Mexican? Where do you think she came from? That would be... Mexico, making that an international adoption. I was not lecturing you about FAS since I would assume that you are very knowledgeable about it yourself. I was pointing out facts that you should already know, but might have forgotten or overlooked. And informing less educated people who are walking in on the subject. My sister also has FAS, I am not sure if I stated that before, although I talked about both my sister and some sufferers of FAS I have known. I am significantly older than her and have watched her grow up, including all the struggles she has gone through (I will not even go into how long it took her to graduate high school, but she did not quit and I am so proud of her there are not words). I have also watched her have two sons of her own, and she might be expecting again. The first two pregnancies I was also a part of, and I believe that there seems to be some carry over of the FAS even though my sister does not drink at all. So I guess I also have experience with second generation FAS, if that has even been explored.

I have several people I know who work in psychology. One of them, who specializes in children... hates them. She finds them disgusting, irritating and a waste of a life to raise. She has completed her education and is working with children (she was only going for her BA). I would not take my dog to her. I also went to over a dozen physiatrists and psychologist while growing up and trying to deal with ADHD. I had several who decided over the most trivial facts what my permanent diagnosis would be. One doctor asked me to draw a picture of my family and then "read my feelings" out of the picture (i.e. I had small feet in the picture therefore I felt "unstable in the world", when actually I had made them that way because I have large feet and hate it). Another doctor told my parents that I was retarded and should be put in an institution... of course he was the doctor right before the one who tested my IQ and found that I qualify as a genius. Why did my parents keep going to different doctors? Some of the reasons were obvious by their techniques and recommendations, and some of them are less so. I had one doctor I dearly loved because she was very sweet and actually listened to my frustrations, but nothing was changing, I wasn't improving.

I have worked with ADHD children for a very long time. The children I have worked with have all been challenging, but the work has been very rewarding. The only difference between this and working in the field is that I wasn't paid for it. It was family members, friends and acquaintances. Although I have had some parents refer me to other people that I don't even know when they are aware of those parents being desperate. I am not going into a career blind. I know exactly what I am doing. And since every single one of my kids I mentored have finished school, and not one has had substance abuse problems (prevalent among ADHD because of self-medicating) or conceived a child in their teenage years (or unwed for that matter). I believe that certain people have a skill for working with sufferers of certain disabilities. I "speak" their language, most likely because I also have lived with it my whole life. I have yet to see one case of harming anyone from my years of administering to children with this condition. Where am I hurting anyone?

I hope you find that special someone who can work with your son and help him to realize his full potential. He will have many struggles in life, which is sad since none of it is his fault. But he can accomplish great things... he can teach you things... if you are listening. You will find joy in his accomplishments because he will have to work more than twice as hard to master what is simple for other children. You will learn patience, as you watch his in facing his challenges. And you will learn bravery as you watch him face not only his condition, but the attitude of the world in regards to it.

EMILY, SO YOU CAN UNDERSTAND THIS WAS NOT ABOUT AN ADOPTION OF DISABLED PERSON IT WAS ABOUT WHAT THE AGENCY DID. Everything they told us was a lie - nothing was true. How would you catagorize the child's birth mother - she is an alcoholic, drug abuser and prostitute (hired a doctor in Russia that told us all this after the adoption - try to find out what was going so, we could resolve some issues) - this is not the first child she got rid of (again, there is no triad because the birth mother does not care and birth father is unknown). So, what story should I tell our son (not that one). Again, where can you say you are an expert? You have never yourself adopted a child and you have not adopted a child internationally and you have not parented a child with FASD/ARND. You're ADHD children would be a lot easier to parent than my son. DO NOT LECTURE ME ON FAS - I know a lot more about this than you do, or maybe I should just tell you this is the worst case of fetal alcohol exposure that our doctor's have seen because of all the systematic damage and brain damage (which if you read the first post you should have realized). But, again this report was against COH the agency not Russia not adoption not international adoption not about a disabled person and not about our son....

You have issues Emily - and I truthfully, believe that this bureau has problems because your posts has nothing to do with the agency or what happened. It is okay to change birth facts 100% - our government does not think so, that is why they are establishing new regulations for international adoption (did you check this out - I gave you the name you could have). Maybe, that is why Canada has already stopped adoptions from EE countries.

Yes, Emily I know you will have the last word. Please, do not go in to Child Psychology with your attitude you will hurt people because you go tangential on one remark and do not look at the whole picture (psychologist's can not do this).

Sue-That was a completely uneducated guess. I actually researched deeply into what it was like to find your birthfamily. I talked to tons of adoptees who already had, I read many books on the subject and joined a chat site for adult adoptees which I frequented forever. That chat site is actually what gave me the tip that allowed me to open my records. I have heard literally hundreds of search results. Happy reunions and sad reunions... even disapointing reunions. I was prepared for anything; promiscuity, drugs, alcoholism or being a secret that no one knew and that my birthparents didn't want anyone to know. I was actually very pleased with what I found. My birthmother and I are a lot alike, in fact I have read her these postings and she wants a computer so that she can come in here and rip half of you to shreds. She got choked up when I read her my entries and kept saying, "thank you for saying that" and saying she said it on behalf of all birthmothers, which I guess she is in a position to say, seeing as she has had contact with hundreds if not thousands, since she placed me several decades ago. By the way she is also extremely deeply involved in adoptions, but mostly on the birthmother side since she most strongly identifies with because placing a child is traumatizing; when in a healthy adoption, being adopted isn't. She as well as myself first made contact with b*****d nation before they even had a website. My birthmother also has MS and has it bad. Twenty-eight days of the month she can be in bed dealing with it. And she is a fighter. She is stronger than any of you will ever dream of being. When she goes out... she will go out with her boots on. I could not be more proud of her... she is like me, an activist. She was also sickened by Kim's posting, noticing without my pointing out to her the lack of intimate connection with her adopted son. She kept saying, "He isn't oranges, you can't treat him like he isn't a person." "You can't treat him like damaged goods." How can she not even call him her son?" (Although I did point out that in the second posting she did). She also noticed that the sicko who was saying that Kim has a right to want a healthy child and that her son should have been aborted sided with all of you, not me. She pointed out that the delightful "birthmothers are drunks, sluts, and crack whores" came from you guys, not me. She was amazed that anyone who has any awareness of a healthy adoption (not an adoption of healthy children, but an adoption that is happy and productive)or disabled people would condone Kim's attitude in regards to this situation.

Nancy-No that is not qualification enough. I will break that down for everyone in just a minute, first your post. Let's see, skip the stuff the last comments will address. So it looks to everyone like I am attacking her, and everyone thinking I am being too "harsh" might be on to something? Read my lips, "I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU THINK!" I was addressing Kim to whom the original post refers, that was the point of this site. But I repeat myself. I am not defending you, you have a major chip on your shoulder... feel free to defend yourself. I am very happy for you that you haven't been treated badly when you had an "attack" as I have heard it called. You were lucky. Everyone isn't so lucky. I didn't learn sign language to talk to Crohn's sufferers. I learned it to speak with down syndrome children, and a deaf child I baby-sat for frequently. Guess what? The world isn't all about you! I smile at people in wheelchairs because people tend to avoid their eyes, but smile at ambulatory people. I discovered that after participating in a study of human behavior when I went shopping in a wheelchair for a day to find out what it feels like to be treated as if I was disabled for a short time. I smile at everyone, even if just in passing, which is mostly the case. And "yippie" that you have not used the term "real" to describe your birthparents... I don't either. Frankly I don't think that what AN ADOPTEE calls their biological parents is any of anyone's business. The adopted are a minority, that is a fact, and using the same terminology usually clears up misunderstanding. So I guess the world needs to start using your terms immediately because you say so? Using the term "real" doesn't mean it is wrong, but when adoptive parents use it it shows a lack of bonding. This is a college level analysis from someone who is making a career of psychology. It had nothing to do with assuming... but then you can't stick to the subject on anything here. Tupper Lake is a real place, with real people, amazing dysfunctional people by most the postings, but a very real place. I had no idea they had their own place on this site as I read their postings more than a year ago when they were sprinkled in with legitimate businesses. Obviously you have read a lot more of their garbage than I have. But a lot of people that have posted uneducated replies would sure fit in within a town that everyone seems to have an opinion and think that theirs is the only one that matters. Then please drop it and let them be in peace? This isn't about them anymore, and it wasn't me who started the side trip. If you read my posts I try to redirect people to the actual issue. And if you think I am going to let you "smack me down" you have another thought coming and have made one of the worst evaluation of who I am that I have ever seen, on-line or off. What do you think I will back down because you are handicapped? Guess again. You have got to be the most egocentric person I have ever crossed words with. Oh, and by the way, when exactly did you get diagnosed with Crohn's? I have never known a child who suffered from it. The only sufferers of this condition I have met were adults who developed it well after childhood. That would hardly expand your qualifications... would it?
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Okay people here we go... read slowly so the words can penetrate...

This posting was about adoption OF disabled children. I am going to break this down to a kindergarten level and see if you people can "see" why most of you are not involved in the situation.

Okay, boys and girls, what we are talking about here is "clowns who drive blue trucks". We don't want to discuss clowns in general, we don't want to discuss trucks in general. We are not interested in your thoughts as a clown, or your thoughts about trucks. We are specifically discussing clowns who drive blue trucks. We don't to discuss the process by which trucks work. We don't want to discuss how one becomes a clown. Or if a truck has to be blue to be a truck. Got it?

Now here is the tie in for those who are too slow to understand it by those words.

What we are discussing is adoption OF disabled children. We aren't discussing adoption as a whole, we aren't discussing being disabled as a whole. We are not discussing thoughts on being adopted in general, and we are not discussing disabilities in general. We are not discussing your thoughts about being adopted, or your thoughts about being disabled. We are specifically addressing adoption OF disabled children. We are not discussing the adoption process, or the process of life in being disabled. Or whether or not an adoption is a triad if it is international.

Those are all good subjects, but not what is being discussed. My original posting was specifically to Kim, no one else. I do not believe she will be happy in adopting, because obviously she will not accept challenged children, and she will spend a small fortune trying to avoid them. She already refers to a "disrupted" adoption, or did everyone miss that? My heart aches for a child who might have been told he/she would have a home and then discover that it wasn't going to happen. Yet still that child is ahead of the son who was adopted. Hopefully by now he has been placed with a "bleeding heart" who will love him for who and what he is.

You all want to weigh in with pats on the back for Kim and attack me for venturing my opinion? I didn't realize we were on a talk show circuit. Very well... I have friends who are involved in these areas... a lot of them. I also have a whole lot more that will be as furious over how I was treated as you all seem to be about how you "feel" Kim was treated. They can weigh in their opinions to. A little in advance I would like to introduce our guests...

Emily ... *sigh*

"Again I don't see anyone giving any reason that they have any kind of qualifications with regards to adoption OF disabled children. I guess when you are a 'yes' man you don't need them."

I'm an adoptee and disabled. Isn't that qualification enough?

"Jennifer - News! I wasn't personally attacking her!"

Sure looked like it to everyone else who's read your posts and who have posted back to you.

"But this is not about a normal adoption."

My adoption wasn't normal either, which is the reason I posted on this report.

"Adoption shouldn't cost money"

My parents didn't pay to adopt me. They only paid the costs of the court.

"The fact that people are in this for money is where a large part of the problem lies."

Agreed. That's why I put the URL to b*****d Nation in my reply to you Emily. Go there to get the real story on adoption.

"I am so tired of people that don't know disabled children or adults trying to pretend that how they treat them like furniture is okay."

I'm tired of people, who aren't disabled, talking about how I feel. I've never been treated badly by anyone thru my life when a Crohn's flare has me totally down. I have been known to warn people around me to watch their toes, so I don't run over them when I get 'in a mood' and start doing donuts in my wheelchair.

"Everyone else seems to say I am attacking Kim, or that I am being too "harsh"."

Maybe they are on to something there.

"My defense of the disabled would be more of a stand that they are people."

Quit defending me. I can fight my own battles.

"I am a person who learned sign language to talk with the disabled. A person who looks a person in a wheelchair in the eyes and smiles."

Heh, funny. The majority of the people who 'smile' at me when I'm out in my chair don't do it because they care, they do it cause they have NO idea what to think or do when confronted by someone in a chair. What's so damned hard about just going about your business and not making us feel as if we are 'special'? As far as sign language goes, I only know the one finger salute, which I will openly use to people who try to coddle me.

And now Emily, you said specifically to me:

"You just made my point for me with your story of your adoption."

No, I didn't.

"Your parents were good parents originally BECAUSE they didn't care what sex you were. They wanted a child to love and raise as their own."

Correct, in that I was their first child, they didn't care what sex I was. Had they adopted another child, which was considered after I was adopted by them, they would have requested a male child. Nothing at all wrong to want children of both sexes. That's a very natural thing.

My parents were good parents because they loved me. My sex had nothing to do with it.

"Lastly the term "real" for the birthparents doesn't come from me, it comes from the rest of the world."

So that makes it right for you to repeat things in error?

"Most adoptees are asked that on a regular basis when people discover they are adopted."

When asked, they get the same reply I gave to you. I have TWO mothers, which I love the same. They are both very much real. (The same goes for my fathers.)

Emily, your agenda showed to everyone, when you attacked Kim for her original post. She was only trying to warn others about the horrible agency she dealt with and got screwed over by. This report never had anything to do with the love she has for her son. YOU are the one who started that line of crap. You know what they say about assuming.

When others posted in Kim's defence, you decided to drop the town of "Tupper Park" in your next post. Anyone who posts on Rip Off Reports *knows* that is a copout. This report has nothing to do with that town or it's residents. There is a special area of the Rip Off Reports just for that town. You should go there to post about it.

Please drop this, let Kim and her son live in peace. Kim came here to expose a bad adoption agency and she did that well. You seem to be the only person posting who still has a problem with it. Give it up.

As I see it...

It just occured to me that Emily is angry because she also feels cheated.

Most adoptees have a fantasy birthfamily, usually the fantasy includes something like: movie stars and other famous people.

In my opinion Emily feels just as cheated as Kim, because Emily's birthmother isnt the fantasy she had for so many years.

I am NOT saying Emilys original mother is less than perfect, or unworthy...I am suggesting the original mother isnt what Emily daydreamed about for so many years.

Could this be why Emily is so angry?
Most times when we dislike someone, or some thing, its because it hits too close to home.

A birthmother, myself....I know just a bit too much about adoption issues.
:(

Gabriel-
That was a great response! Maybe you could stomp your foot when you said it, or hold your breath until I stop. Wow, what great vocabulary words! I hope it didn't take you too long to type that all for me. Especially since you can't even spell loser correctly. What pray tell was I "loosing"? Opinions that didn't agree with yours? Of course... if I had a dime for every time I have heard someone immature say "I guess you are right and everyone else is wrong" to a person who is more intelligent then them...I could buy this site and ban you for life. Scientifically, since I am reproducing at a rapid rate and my children excel in the top 95% of the intellectually elite gene pool... and since they each plan to have large families of their own... "loosers" like you won't exist in a few generations.

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Again I don't see anyone giving any reason that they have any kind of qualifications with regards to adoption OF disabled children. I guess when you are a 'yes' man you don't need them.
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Jennifer-
News! I wasn't personally attacking her! Did that ever occur to you? I honestly believe she will be happier away from her current situation, which she has so obviously stated her distaste for. It absolutely cracks me up that you can sit there and call other people uncultured and uneducated. Look in the mirror. I do not consider myself above anyone. I consider myself in the heart of the matter, which I give many examples of... how would that make a person any of the things you claim? Your son was healthy, so this situation doesn't really apply to you. That case is about disabled children and adoption. Bless you for giving the chance to parent to another couple. God has a special place for women who give the ultimate sacrifice. I truly believe that. But this is not about a normal adoption.

Janine-
You have a really good point, although you probably didn't notice it. Adoption shouldn't cost money. At least it should not cost as much as it currently does. Perhaps only expenses for the care of the child until the adoptive parents can take over. The fact that people are in this for money is where a large part of the problem lies. Thank you for bringing such a thought to what has obviously become an open forum on adoption.

Nancy-
You just made my point for me with your story of your adoption. Your parents were good parents originally BECAUSE they didn't care what sex you were. They wanted a child to love and raise as their own. That should be a prerequisite for adoptive parents. I never said that it didn't happen in the past or that it doesn't happen today... what I said is that selecting a child is wrong. You are a saint for finding the information you provided Kim. Maybe you should create your own posting with that information for all victims of that agency. Lastly the term "real" for the birthparents doesn't come from me, it comes from the rest of the world. Most adoptees are asked that on a regular basis when people discover they are adopted.

Sue-
I am mad because her son, and all children are not material possessions. They are people. When you take on a child, in birth or adoption you are telling them that you are their parent. When you then proceed to treat them as damaged goods it hurts the child. It wasn't her son's fault that he has the problems he has. He also isn't a sweater or some other inanimate object that can be returned with no one the worse for wear. He is a person. I am so tired of people that don't know disabled children or adults trying to pretend that how they treat them like furniture is okay.

Sean-
I should have responded to your posting long ago. You are a very choice and special man. Although some of your spelling and grammar may inspire some to make snide comments I admire you greatly. Thank you so much for your constructive advice and a glimpse into your beautiful soul. God bless you in all your pursuits. :)

Kim-Gilbert, Arizona
Wow, what a glance into your soul! Guess what? It isn't just crack whores who have children with disabilities. Did you also know that those "people" who adopt special needs children actually PAY to do it? That is right. Adoption costs money, even when the "product" isn't perfect, even when you know "it" isn't. I find it infinitely amusing that you would title me a bleeding heart for what I have said. Everyone else seems to say I am attacking Kim, or that I am being too "harsh". My defense of the disabled would be more of a stand that they are people. Obviously you are a bigot who considers disabled people less than human.
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Kim-Millersville, Maryland
Yes, the adoption agency was wrong for what they did to you. No, it wasn't okay for them to lie and change birth measurements and all the other horrible things that they did to you. Who, and what am I, that I state my opinions so bluntly? I am a person who has numerous times come to the defense of the disabled or mentally challenged. I am a person who makes it a point of meeting your eye when you are out with a handicapped person, and smiling a big smile. If you seem open to it I will even come over and talk to you about your son. I will ask what therapies you are using and what measures you have taken. If I know something that might help him that I know has worked well for someone else I know I will pass that on to you. I am a person who will watch him for awhile, even if that is just reading to him, so that you can go out and have some "you" time. I am a person who notices that he has a beautiful smile when others only see the crutches/braces/drool/deformities, etc. I am a person who champions parents who take on the enormous responsibility of LOVING and raising a disabled child, no matter what the dysfunction. I am a person who reads up on the disabilities that a friend's child has so that I can be there for him or her, and assist them in any way I can. I am a person who learned sign language to talk with the disabled. A person who looks a person in a wheelchair in the eyes and smiles. I could go on and on... because I love all people. No matter what race, religion, or background... (with the exception of those that feed on hate. Like Gabriel there)... and the disabled ARE PEOPLE! If being what I am means that I am uneducated and uncultured then I don't want to be anything else. If being like these people who want mandatory testing and abortion of undesirable fetuses is being cultured and educated... then I don't want to be. I thought my studies in a cacophony of different areas would have done all of these things... apparently I was wrong and for me to be approved of by the "general public" I have to acquire their morals. Thanks, but no thanks... I will pass.

"Emily" I wish you knew what a pompous, misdirected, idiot you are. Isn't it obvious that the general opinion is that you are out of line?
Oh, but let me guess. You are right and everybody else is wrong.

Kim,

I wish you the best of luck. I pray that God will reveal His purpose to you. This topic is one that is very close to my heart. As such, I cannot continue to read the cretinous responses you have received. It gives me a headache and saddens my heart. It makes me so very angry that you have been personally attacked, by someone so uncultured and uneducated.

This is about you and your post. God Bless you.

My last suggestion... unless you get a response from the agency, stop reading this nonsense. Between little girls who have an inflated image of themselves, and some guy in Florida who should have been aborted himself, this post has brought out the ugly. And I don't know why.

It's about the agency. That's it. Cradle of Hope adoption agency.

If you should ever need someone to talk to, please feel free to email me at djjenilyn@aol.com.

May COH see what they are doing wrong and may you receive the love, hope and answers that God has to give you.

God Bless you Kim.

I am not a consumer in this case either, that would insinuate that I also have adopted through the company. Which I have not. But whatever, I guess this will make everyone happy and they can quit ignoring the actual issue then it is worth it.

The adoption triad is everywhere in every single adoption, Kim. It is the triangle formed by the adoptee, the birthparents, and the adoptive parents. As I said obviously you don't know a lot about this. Yet that isn't surprising as it is usually the birthparents and the adoptee that are interested in it.

Yes, as a matter of fact I do know many people who have completed foreign adoptions. I do know people who have adopted babies with FAS, and have watched one of the children grow to adulthood and have children of her own now. Actually I have had contact with so many families over the years with disabled children that there are disorders I cannot even recall the names of, only the symptoms. Did you know that FAS can be caused by the mother drinking at a moderate amount before she even knows she is pregnant? Did you know there is absolutely no control over how much to drink to avoid giving a baby FAS? Some women drink like a fish and their babies are born healthy, and some women drink moderately until they discover they are pregnant; and then quit, and still have FAS babies. They only foolproof method is not to drink at all. A lifestyle I highly encourage, but seems to not have much purchase in this self gratifying world. Classifying this woman as a drunk is unfair. Unless you met the woman and she told you things you have absolutely nothing to base these opinions on. You also have no idea if your son was a multiple child and she a irresponsible baby machine. Obviously you prescribe to the "dirty" birthmother philosophy and I pray you don't pass it to your children. That is the most destructive idea you can plant in an adopted child's head. Telling an adopted child throughout their lives that they are adopted is a good idea. Telling them that they can from filth is not, and makes the child see this in themselves, since they know they are part of where they came from. Much healthier is to tell them that their birthparents were no ready to be parents and wanted to give them a life with parents who were.

Why am I angry? Because this is the same sort of behavior that results in people coming up to a stroller to "see the baby" and seeing the almond eyes of a down syndrome child, or other signs that the baby is different, stopping smiling... and walking away without a word. I have comforted my mother when this happened to her, and I was just a child then. I have watched dozens of families of disabled children deal with the same behavior. Then there are hundreds of other families that I was not close enough with to see, but have conversed on the subject.

I am well aware that babies used to be stolen from their mothers. I am also aware that it sometimes happens even today. I also know that extreme pressure is put on birthmothers these days, even when they are in the hospital, to place their baby. I have several friends who had workers from adoption agencies show up the day they had their baby to try to procure the infant for their company. But going into this would be as pointless as going into adopted children who were created by rape or incest. These cases make up about 1% of adoptions, and less every year.

Amazingly I seem to be the most qualified to venture opinions on this subject, and the most discouraged from doing so. No one else has posted any kind of reason that they are justified in giving opinions, but they expect them of me.

The point of my first response was quite simple. If you cannot love him ,give him to someone who can, and don't adopt again. Adoption agencies are full of lies as several people have pointed out. Some worse than others, but I don't know a single person who has opened their files and discovered that the adoption agency that was used was TOTALLY honest. I ventured this point based on the fact that I come from a family with disabled or challenged children who are adopted.

I am not even going to go into this person talking about testing for pregnant women and aborting disabled children. Although I disagree on so many moral grounds... it would be like shooting fish in a barrel. I do heartily believe in constant use of birth control when a woman doesn't want to conceive.

You know what people? Whatever... I don't care anymore. I will just chaulk up this situation to a sad state of affairs as is the case so often these days. I actually thought by her second post that Kim was coming around to seeing that her present attitude wasn't helping her at all. But all of these warm fuzzies from people that don't even know what the situation is like have blown it completely off subject. This posting is not about the adoption of a healthy child. And although I do admire all birthmothers who give their children up for a better life, it isn't about them either. Sadly I feel some kind of responsibility to address each of these subject when they are brought up. This wasn't MY post, it was Kim's. The rebuttals posted were supposed to be addressing the subject she chose, not my responses. Attacking my responses shows an obvious misunderstanding of the whole situation. I think you must all be from Tupper Lake. Jumping all over someone for what they said or how they said something... what gives YOU the right?

When the last person dies for just words that he said... we shall be free.

I do not for one minute think that this woman does not love her child that she adopted. I think the point as she stated was that she was lied to and deceived. This would make me incredibly mad and angry if it were to happen to me too.

Not only is adoption incredibly expensive and an over whelming rollercoaster ride of emotions that one is put through. To find out in the end that you have paid $10,000-$20,000 or more to adopt a healthy child plus any other expenses that you may incur, only to find out that this child has severe problems and will never be able to function in society as an adult is a huge blow.

Financially most people could not afford this...and emotionally this would be further tramatizing to one who has already been through the whole infertility and adoption process.
I would sue that adoption agency for everything they had and then some.

I am on your side...you have been wronged and if it were to happen to some of these others and they were facing the same finacial devistation you are they would be just as upset.

I've been told many times by my adoptive dad and mom that the day they got the call from the Welfare Dept., they were told a baby girl was available for adoption. They were asked if they wanted a girl, or did they want to wait for a boy.

This was back in the late 1950's! It's been going on that long, Kim. Don't feel you need to qualify this to Emily. I was born and raised in the states and my parents were asked first if a baby girl was fine for them. Had they said no, I would have gone to the next willing couple on 'the list'.

My parents just wanted a baby, they didn't care which sex I was. I was brought to their front door the next day, at 6 days of age.

Enjoy your children Kim, don't let an angry adoptee like Emily get your feathers ruffled. You are doing great as a mom. :)

Emily said:

"I have found my birthmother and talked with many others. They give their child up to fulfill a barren woman's dream of having children of her own."

I reply:

I've found my entire birth family also and have dealt with all sides of the triad in real life, since finding them in the early 1990's (and online for the past 11 years, as far as that goes).

Are you so sure ALL birthmom's willingly gave up their children? Think again Emily. I was NOT given up, I was stolen from my birthmom when the Welfare lady told her she was signing hospital admission papers and they were really adoption papers. Fortunately for everyone, the next couple on the adoption list was a wonderful couple and I was raised in a very loving home. Luck of the draw and all that ... Yeah, I'm a product of the '50's, when all that was a normal thing.

Listen to Jennifer. Her words can move mountains.

Kim, I know you love your son. Please don't let Emily's posts get to you. Ignore her, she is NOT in the majority when it comes to how all sides of the triad feel. I saw in your first post how much you love your son. I also saw how badly wronged you were by that adoption agency.

I found this on their website:

"6. Cradle of Hope Special Needs Fund
A source of grants for families adopting children from Russia with Special Needs."

Did they tell you about this fund, when you found out your son was special needs Kim? If they didn't, it may be something you want to check into further.

I found this quote on their website also:

"Most children in orphanages were born to poor families or single mothers, or they have been abandoned or were taken from birth parents due to neglect or abuse. All children are impacted by life in an institution. They will have developmental delays that may affect their speech, motor skills, cognitive functioning, and physical growth."

Were you told this before you adopted your son Kim?

The last quote that I have from their site, talking about the families that adopt from them, said this:

"These families dedicate themselves to obtaining the best possible treatments for their children and they need and deserve the ongoing support of adoption agencies and professionals."

I do hope that Cradle of Hope is giving you this ongoing support they speak of on their site. If not, you may wanna point it out to them. Their website is http://www.cradlehope.org

Emily, you sound like a very angry adoptee. If you haven't been to the b*****d Nation website yet, I think you should pay them a visit and do some reading. All of us in the triad can learn much from that site. http://www.bastards.org/

One last thing. I do NOT have a 'real' mother as you call it. I have 2 mothers and I love them both equally! I'm twice blessed and the last time I checked, they were both REAL.

Hi it is texino and I am here to give some wonderful but rather cold scientific fact. (warning English is 3rd language)

Perhaps all fetus should be tested by sentesis. Then if fetus is found to be abnormal can be aborted and tissue pit to work at curing sick persons.

Parents then try again. Babies are fun to produce.

Now some delusional persons who are hung up with foolish religion will go crazy here. I suggests you take some medicine.
When you feel better, you will face truth. For good and productive society, human who are grossly malformed in mind or body can be identified in non viable fetal state and put to use as stated above.

Severely retarded or multi handicapped persons present a huge drain on precious financial funding for research. Systematic removal from society by humane means leading to a useful end can only improve society as a whole.

These are irrefutable fact of science and logic. Hysterical reaction by disturbed and unfulfilled mothers is to be expected but will be totally ignored. The pro and con of this hypothesis are routinely expressed in scientific publication, and are only mentioned here to defuse useless hectoring.

Good day

Emily,

You may have an understanding of American Adoptions but, I do not think you have any understanding of International adoptions period. For one thing you keep talking about "adoption triad" - that does not happen in International adoptions. You also state that the mother gave the child up at an emotional cost to her??? Again, if you knew how most of these children came into the orphanage I really do not think you would say that or how many previous children they have also left somewhere. Again, you categorize your report as an "Employee of this company with insider information" - which is again false because you are not an EMPLOYEE OF COH. What is your inside information - do you understand our government realizes there is a big problem with international adoptions and contracted with Acton Brunell to develop standards & procedures to accredit agencies and approve persons seeking to provide international adoption services. Have you talked to our foster care system that is already heavily burden and having to take on the additional responsibility of children adopted internationally? Have you talked to any families that have adopted children internationally that have had problems such as RAD, FAS, ARND, PTSD, etc (and do you know what these are)? Again, most people that adopt internationally do this so, they can pick out the sex of the child, age, health and race (almost all children adopted from EE countries are older than 6 months). Do you realize the dissolution rate of these children is extremely high (go talk to any IA medical specialist and they will confirm this as will the Tressler Adoption Service)?

"I am not meant to adopt" - I think my children would disagree with that. Yes, they all know they are adopted because we do not want what happened to your friend to happen to my children. "My perfect dream is ruined" - no it has just be changed.

I will say I am sorry about the remarks about your mother's. I misunderstood what you wrote - I thought you said your mother was lied to by your birthmother.

Hi Emily. My name is Jennifer. I posted above. I am a birthmother. My son is now 10 years old. I chose his parents. I chose where he would live. I chose what kind of religious background I wanted for him. With the agency, I was able to choose the life I wanted for my Michael. Most of all, I chose for him to live.

Emily, I commend you on your stand for rights for children who have been unfortunate to be born into this world with problems. Lord knows there is enough problems in this world to deal with, let alone to be born with more.

There is no such thing as "normal". Normal is a setting on your clothes dryer.

What Kim and her family were seeking, was a healthy child. If you were pregnant, would you want a child with FAS and ADHD? Would you drink every day? Would you shoot up and snort pixie dust up your nose? I doubt it. You would hope and pray that your child would be healthy. Why are you attacking Kim for wanting the same thing?

You asked Kim to respond to your allegations by declaring her love for her son. Who are you that she has to respond and defend herself to you? She has nothing to prove to you.

Your comments are destructive, not constructive. Can you see the difference??

I do not know Kim. But I believe the reason she placed this report on the adoption agency was so that other families could be spared the agony of being lied to. I am certain that she did not place this post to be attacked.

As for your comment, "Birthmother's around the globe reading your post would mutter a fervent prayer that if something was wrong with their child that the birthparents would stand by them and not react as you have." I think you meant that the adoptive parents, but that is your quote. Well, I am a birthparent. I have read Kim's posts. And if that were my son that Kim and her husband were raising, I would be happy. Even though Kim is not happy that she was lied to, she still is doing right by her son. Maybe you missed that part.

Kim and her family were done wrong, in a most egregious, and flagrant way. That is the point. You have agreed to that point. Now please stop the personal attacks.

BTW by choosing to represent yourself as an employee, you lied. Your last post you represented yourself as an employee of the company reported (adoption agency) with inside information. You lied. Regardless of your experience, you are still a consumer, with consumer comments. I am a birthmother. I have spoken to groups of perspective birthmothers, perspective adoptive parents, and even spoke about my experience at a Planned Parenthood banquet. I have mentored a birthmother through her pregnancy and went to the hospital to meet the adoptive parents with her. I was with her when she signed the papers to relinquish her parental rights. I am still a consumer, just like you.

Emily, why are you being so mean to Kim? Why are you so angry? She was actually trying to help people by letting them know which adoption agency is not placing good matches.

Some people actually want a child with learning or physical challenges. Some people want nothing to do with anything less than their own view of perfection. Kim has every right to be angry, because she obviously asked for a healthy child, and ended up with a malnourished child, instead.
Dont you agree this is wrong of the agency to do this?

Weather we believe its right or wrong is not the issue...Kim asked and paid for something she didnt get. She was letting the buyer beware.

A birthmother...errr. FIRST mother...however you word it, I mothered my child.

I did not indicate that I worked for the site, I indicated that I was an employee of the company reported. Which was the only option that made sense to me, since consumer suggestion would sound like I did not understand the workings and was given uneducated opinions from a position removed from the situation. As an adoptee I guessed that the option I picked was the closest I would find showing a closeness to the situation. I am not nor ever have been an employee of this site, nor the actual adoption agency. For the things they have done to you and others they should be drawn and quartered. No doubt about it. A broken triad is a travesty unlike any other. They destroyed two different family units by committing the acts they did. They took your money and gave you less than what you wanted, that much is obvious. They created a dysfunctional triad in the process solely in their quest for money. Is that what you want to hear? Yes, you were wronged. Horribly wronged. I agree whole heartedly.

Now... you latest posting proves my point. My "mother" did not "ovulate" (again not the case, see previous post)... the woman who gave birth to me is not my "mother". She is my birthmother. My "real" mother is the one who raised me. Healthy members of the triad understand that. My birthmother has no illusions about being my real mother. When I met her she had a long talk with me about the circumstance surrounding my birth. She also is adopted. She also understands how it works in a successful adoption. Her adopted mother is her "real" mother. Even though she has also located her birthmother. You still think of your son's birthfamily as his "real" parents. That absolutely proves a failure to bond. When you adopt any child they are YOURS! You should love and protect them as fiercely as if they sprung from your very own loins. If this is the case then why haven't you responded to my allegations by declaring your love for him? Your admiration for the child that he is... despite his disabilities.

You had expectation that were unreasonable for adoption. You expect "normal" which is perfection, unless you think that refers to some kind of utopian perfection. I bet you were one of those adoptive parents who wanted to pick their child's race and sex too, weren't you? You don't get to pick a child, although adoption can sometimes come pretty close. If I ran an adoption agency it would be purely for adoptive parents who wanted to be a parent for love's sake. Who didn't care what race their child was, or what sex, or what background he or she came from. I would take applications from everyone else and throw them away. People who adopt are not always ready or fit for adoption. The children that are raised by such people go to counseling for years trying to deal with the damage. I know... I know a lot of people who are adopted. I grew up with a girl-friend who was adopted and didn't find out until she was fourteen. When she found out it shattered her. She saw it as something bad, as that she hadn't been wanted. A very common feeling amoung adoptees. The only way this can be overcome is by honesty and a lot of love on the adopted parents' side. (Although from my experience when adoptees meet their birthparents and find out that they were wanted. Just that the birthparents wanted more for them, they tend to experience a lot of healing in that area.)

My advice is completely blunt and heartfelt. You are not ment for adoption. I don't know what drove you to it. Perhaps infertility, as was the case in my adoption, perhaps a desire to adopt a child from the many unwanted in the world... I don't know. You don't say that either. Birthmother's around the globe reading your post would mutter a fervent prayer that if something was wrong with their child that the birthparents would stand by them and not react as you have.

Decide this day what you are going to do.

Do you love him, even just enough to make it work, to work with him to realize his full potential? If so then complete whatever actions you can to avenge your dissapointments on the company (again probably due to their illicit actions); then suck it up and nurture your son. Horrible disabilities have been overcome, true artists have been discovered in dysfunctional bodies and minds. All because of the love of a mother for a child (father as well, they are vital to a child's development).

Can you not deal with the fact that your "perfect" dream was ruined? This could be the case. Many parents of disabled children decide that they cannot deal with their child's shortcomings as they see it. Quite frankly I don't believe they are strong enough, that they have the depth of character to handle the situation. Let me repeat again though... this could have happened in a child you carried as well. It happened to my mother, and I know many others it happened to. Some of them didn't discover their child's problems until a lot later in their parenting experience than you. If you cannot love him enough... give him to someone who can. Although I feel you owe his birthmother enough to take good care of him until such a position can be found. This breaking of your "dreams" about how being a parent would be does not lessen the sacrifice made on her part.

In either case you need counseling. You are going through the loss process and are stuck in some kind of anger stage. You need to process this and get over it, learn to accept it, for your good, and for your son's.

Kim,

Adoption is a very emotional topic, filled with lies, deceit and greed.

We are spinning out of control with letters from all sides of the tri-ad.

Kims point is she felt she was lied to regarding the child she adopted, and she is throwing up a red flag so that others will be aware of this particular agency.

PLEASE! If you are a birthmother, if you are perspective adoptive parent, check out several agencies before you make the final decision.
Remember: These agencies are in business to make money...if they were doing this out of the goodness of their heart they wouldnt ask for money...and lots of it!

Kim, I also mistook your original letter, thinking you were just whining about adopting a less than perfect child, now I see the complaint is about not disclosing all the facts.
I hope you can move forward, love your child for all that he is, and understand there is a reason you have found each other.
He needs you! :)

It is not unusual to find files full of lies.

In fact, I believe I am one of the few birthmothers lucky enough to find my birthson was placed in a loving home, with notes about me that were (for the most part) very accurate..and my son was placed in a home nearly tailor made and matched exactly what I had asked for.
But my tri-ad was one of the luckier ones.

I'm sorry this is so long...please everyone, check out the agencies, there are some that are down right lieing to get what they want...even the national organizations cant always be trusted.

Good luck, Kim...I pray your heart finds peace.
Sue

Kim,

Adoption is a very emotional topic, filled with lies, deceit and greed.

We are spinning out of control with letters from all sides of the tri-ad.

Kims point is she felt she was lied to regarding the child she adopted, and she is throwing up a red flag so that others will be aware of this particular agency.

PLEASE! If you are a birthmother, if you are perspective adoptive parent, check out several agencies before you make the final decision.
Remember: These agencies are in business to make money...if they were doing this out of the goodness of their heart they wouldnt ask for money...and lots of it!

Kim, I also mistook your original letter, thinking you were just whining about adopting a less than perfect child, now I see the complaint is about not disclosing all the facts.
I hope you can move forward, love your child for all that he is, and understand there is a reason you have found each other.
He needs you! :)

It is not unusual to find files full of lies.

In fact, I believe I am one of the few birthmothers lucky enough to find my birthson was placed in a loving home, with notes about me that were (for the most part) very accurate..and my son was placed in a home nearly tailor made and matched exactly what I had asked for.
But my tri-ad was one of the luckier ones.

I'm sorry this is so long...please everyone, check out the agencies, there are some that are down right lieing to get what they want...even the national organizations cant always be trusted.

Good luck, Kim...I pray your heart finds peace.
Sue

Kim,

Adoption is a very emotional topic, filled with lies, deceit and greed.

We are spinning out of control with letters from all sides of the tri-ad.

Kims point is she felt she was lied to regarding the child she adopted, and she is throwing up a red flag so that others will be aware of this particular agency.

PLEASE! If you are a birthmother, if you are perspective adoptive parent, check out several agencies before you make the final decision.
Remember: These agencies are in business to make money...if they were doing this out of the goodness of their heart they wouldnt ask for money...and lots of it!

Kim, I also mistook your original letter, thinking you were just whining about adopting a less than perfect child, now I see the complaint is about not disclosing all the facts.
I hope you can move forward, love your child for all that he is, and understand there is a reason you have found each other.
He needs you! :)

It is not unusual to find files full of lies.

In fact, I believe I am one of the few birthmothers lucky enough to find my birthson was placed in a loving home, with notes about me that were (for the most part) very accurate..and my son was placed in a home nearly tailor made and matched exactly what I had asked for.
But my tri-ad was one of the luckier ones.

I'm sorry this is so long...please everyone, check out the agencies, there are some that are down right lieing to get what they want...even the national organizations cant always be trusted.

Good luck, Kim...I pray your heart finds peace.
Sue

Kim,

Adoption is a very emotional topic, filled with lies, deceit and greed.

We are spinning out of control with letters from all sides of the tri-ad.

Kims point is she felt she was lied to regarding the child she adopted, and she is throwing up a red flag so that others will be aware of this particular agency.

PLEASE! If you are a birthmother, if you are perspective adoptive parent, check out several agencies before you make the final decision.
Remember: These agencies are in business to make money...if they were doing this out of the goodness of their heart they wouldnt ask for money...and lots of it!

Kim, I also mistook your original letter, thinking you were just whining about adopting a less than perfect child, now I see the complaint is about not disclosing all the facts.
I hope you can move forward, love your child for all that he is, and understand there is a reason you have found each other.
He needs you! :)

It is not unusual to find files full of lies.

In fact, I believe I am one of the few birthmothers lucky enough to find my birthson was placed in a loving home, with notes about me that were (for the most part) very accurate..and my son was placed in a home nearly tailor made and matched exactly what I had asked for.
But my tri-ad was one of the luckier ones.

I'm sorry this is so long...please everyone, check out the agencies, there are some that are down right lieing to get what they want...even the national organizations cant always be trusted.

Good luck, Kim...I pray your heart finds peace.
Sue

Emily, Your comments about your birthmother being lied to about your parents - if she was your birth mother she should know your birth history and facts! Also, if she did not ovulate she could not get pregnant! I guess you assume it is ok to lie since you also state you are a Rebuttal Employee and I know you do not work for this agency!

"I could have the exact same thing if I would have given birth to him - doubt that since I do not drink." Remember, we are talking about FAS which is 100% preventable. "You can not expect the perfect child just because you paid for it - what is perfect?"

To the other suggestions we do have our son in IEP (OT, PT, education), attachment therapy (due to autism), and behavioral therapy (due to FAS & ADHD). He is making some progress but, continues to struggle. Again, I am not going to go into all this since that is not the point. The whole point was to share our story and maybe prevent this from happening to another unsuspecting family. And hopefully, if the do use this agency or any other agency to learn a lesson and ask for all the original documents so, they can have them independently translated for inaccurate information.

Gabriel from California...

I forgot to address your response. How silly of me... I do tend to forget small minds. I listed off a large number of reasons that I would understand this situation. Your obstreperous response makes it obvious that you have nothing to contribute but your own convoluted opinion.

Let me reiterate why I have strong opinions in this situation: I am part of the adoption triad (You probably don't even know what it is). I have mental challenged siblings(... and what, you are mentally challenged yourself?) I have also experiences what an adopted child with such conditions is capable in the right environment. This is what makes me think that I know something about the situation.

This forum was created to report problems with businesses. Which is what Kim was actually talking about. What sickened me was the lack of any sign of "this child" being seen as a living, breathing, FEELING person. As a person who is deeply involved in adoption, personally as well as vicariously, in the case of my siblings' adoptions, my opinion does have weight. Unless this is some kind of happy hippie positive affirmation thing (which your blandiloquent reply would indicate).

I am actually one of the most non-judgemental people you will ever meet. I have received encomiums from many people, personal and professional, from all walks of life, in regards to my open mind. Yet only a complete fool would see the lack of bonding in this circumstance. There is no reference to her son's attributes. I see nothing about them loving him... nothing about his personality, accomplishments or pulcritude. He is to her a defective dissapointment. This attitude even if subconcious carries over to her son. He will thrive even less because of it. Babies and children can actually DIE because they are starved of love. Infants in orphanages can literally turn their tiny faces to the wall and die... because they don't feel loved.

That little boy was some woman's baby. She gave him up, at great emotional cost to her... for the chance of a better life for him. Birthmother's know an exquisite pain that no one but those involved in what is known as the adoption triad understand. The pain of losing a part of yourself. Before I found my birthfamily I looked like no one in my family. I wasn't looking for them to replace my adopted family. My adoptive mother and father are my REAL mother and father and always will be. My birthmother was emotionally destroyed by giving me up. She knew it was best, but it still nearly killed her. My birthfather lost the will to live and went out, angry at the world for his loss, looking for a fight that would end his miserable life. A life that lost fulfillment when I, his only child, was placed for adoption against his wishes. NEVER, NEVER! think you understand us, unless you are one of us. Adoption is a sacred sacrifice of proportions that your miniscule intellect cannot comprehend.

Kim you are headed for a life of dissapointment expecting a perfect child. No one ever has a perfect child. You have a lot of dellusions about what being a parent is all about. There is nothing wrong with wanting a healthy child. There is something deeply wrong with being dissapointed that he isn't perfect, or "normal". Your words, NOT MINE! A birthmother's sacrifice was wasted on you. You do not deserve your son. You need to "cowboy up"... get a grip on the fact that you were screwed over by the company which placed this small boy with you. Give him to someone who will love him, or decide that you do and work your suffering butt off working with him. You never know what he is capable of, and with how you are going you never will. Mentally challenged people make up the artists of the world. A little education should have taught you that...

People get lied to, it is a fact. My birthmother was lied to about my parents. 99% of the things that were vital to her in who she placed her child with were dead on. Then the agency lied about the rest.

They told her my mother didn't ovulate at all. That was not true, she just couldn't carry a baby into the second trimester. They told her my father was more successful than he was. There were other lies and I do believe it was wrong.

Half the people hear are speaking from two sides of their mouth. Saying exactly what I am saying and trying not to be too "harsh". You could have had the exact same thing happen if you had given birth to him. You cannot expect the perfect child just because you paid to get him. These are human beings, not clothing or other merchandise. You are becoming your own crown of thorns by agonizing over what happened for you to end up with him. You have failed to bond with him when you cannot call him your son. You don't need to use his name, I frequently don't use one of my children's names when referring to them. I will say "my daughter" or "my youngest" some such reference to my relationship with the child.

Reading over my first response I am amazed to see that I didn't add my "disability". I also have ADHD, I was one of the youngest diagnosed at the beginning of the discovery of this "disease" or "disorder". Do you know what it actually is? It means that different parts of the brain work that in "normal" people don't. My brain works better. The drugs that they put people with this gift on cause those parts to stop working. When not on medication I can do three things at once and do them well. I have a genius IQ and can solve complex problems in my head. When I was on the medication for school I could not do these things. Who is to say that ADHD and other disorders are not the beginning of further human evolution?

Where do I speak from as a parent? I have four children, and all of them have ADHD. My oldest daughter can control most of the symptoms and does not need to be medicated. I do not seek medication to make my life easier, I embrace how she is "different". My son has ADHD so badly he has to be on medication as he has absolutely no impulse control in many voluntary functions. I am divorced because my first husband, his father, decided that beating him was how to treat his "condition". I got him medication on a groundbreaking drug Straterra, which is not even a controlled substance. It doesn't drug him, but helps him make his own decisions by controlling the impulses until he can decide. The other two are not in school yet, so their development is not of an issue... except my two year old can read. However my two older children are in school. Both are on the honor roll, and my oldest daughter has been placed in the gifted program.

I am going to school for my PHD in child psychology so that I can work with what I personally believe is the new superior workings of the human mind that most people simply know as ADHD. Parental involvement does more than medicine can ever touch.

There was once a woman who had eight children, all of them with horrible disabilities. She was a prostitute and became pregnant again, she also suffered from syphilis. Should she not have had the ninth child?

That child was Beethoven... you decide.

I have no more time to spare for small petty minds now. As some people say, "the proof is in the pudding". I will go pick my children up from school now... they need me. And I am there...

Emily: Are you really that rude, arogant, and ignorant? You have made assumptions about this women who has been lied to and mistreated based on her letter.

Did your "God" give you super powers to read into what everybody says? or are you just confident in knowing everybody's true motives and intentions?

Loosers like you just need to shut up and let the world go on without your ignorant judgements.

We adopted a wonderful cockapoo puppy from this puppy mill one time. They never told us but it had eaten fertilizer. Whenever we turned on our cordless 900gHz telephone the dog would run full force into the wall. The sad thing was our call waiting was on so even when we were already on the phone calling a vet, my mother-in-law would call in and actually set him off again. Many people ask why he has such a flat head, and it makes us cry to tell them why. We tried to get our money back but they said we could only trade him in for and emu - that's right one of those mean ugly ostrich things. So we kept our dog and his flat head makes him a real keeper - in fact he can now carry a beer on his head from the kitchen to the bathroom! Occassionally he has stool accidents and it is never solid but we love him anyway. Hang tough if Downey our dog can pull through then I'm sure your baby can. I hope this helps you owt.

I DO NOT condone what the agency has done and covered up. I do know that there are agencies out there that are not on the up and up, agencies only looking to make a buck.

When I was pregnant at 16, I decided to place my child for adoption. And I stress the word "place". I did NOT give my child away. I placed him in a loving home. At any rate, I contacted the first agency and met with their rep. They sent me letters and pictures of adoptive parents and their respective homes. However, after meeting with their rep several times, I realized that they were only after my child for the money. I was totally disgusted. We are talking about a life, human life.

I know that when I was pregnant with my son in 1993 and also when I was pregnant with my daughter, who is now 16 months old, all I wanted in the whole wide world was a HEALTHY child. There is NOTHING wrong with wanting a healthy child.

I am heartsick that you had to go through this debacle with this "agency". I praise you for going through hoops and doing all the research you can to help your child. I am saddened by the responses on this web site by other people. But if we all had the same thoughts and feelings, it would be a pretty boring world.

God Bless you and your family. May you find answers and help your son to attain his highest potential. Just your love alone is more than he had before.

I DO NOT condone what the agency has done and covered up. I do know that there are agencies out there that are not on the up and up, agencies only looking to make a buck.

When I was pregnant at 16, I decided to place my child for adoption. And I stress the word "place". I did NOT give my child away. I placed him in a loving home. At any rate, I contacted the first agency and met with their rep. They sent me letters and pictures of adoptive parents and their respective homes. However, after meeting with their rep several times, I realized that they were only after my child for the money. I was totally disgusted. We are talking about a life, human life.

I know that when I was pregnant with my son in 1993 and also when I was pregnant with my daughter, who is now 16 months old, all I wanted in the whole wide world was a HEALTHY child. There is NOTHING wrong with wanting a healthy child.

I am heartsick that you had to go through this debacle with this "agency". I praise you for going through hoops and doing all the research you can to help your child. I am saddened by the responses on this web site by other people. But if we all had the same thoughts and feelings, it would be a pretty boring world.

God Bless you and your family. May you find answers and help your son to attain his highest potential. Just your love alone is more than he had before.

I DO NOT condone what the agency has done and covered up. I do know that there are agencies out there that are not on the up and up, agencies only looking to make a buck.

When I was pregnant at 16, I decided to place my child for adoption. And I stress the word "place". I did NOT give my child away. I placed him in a loving home. At any rate, I contacted the first agency and met with their rep. They sent me letters and pictures of adoptive parents and their respective homes. However, after meeting with their rep several times, I realized that they were only after my child for the money. I was totally disgusted. We are talking about a life, human life.

I know that when I was pregnant with my son in 1993 and also when I was pregnant with my daughter, who is now 16 months old, all I wanted in the whole wide world was a HEALTHY child. There is NOTHING wrong with wanting a healthy child.

I am heartsick that you had to go through this debacle with this "agency". I praise you for going through hoops and doing all the research you can to help your child. I am saddened by the responses on this web site by other people. But if we all had the same thoughts and feelings, it would be a pretty boring world.

God Bless you and your family. May you find answers and help your son to attain his highest potential. Just your love alone is more than he had before.

I DO NOT condone what the agency has done and covered up. I do know that there are agencies out there that are not on the up and up, agencies only looking to make a buck.

When I was pregnant at 16, I decided to place my child for adoption. And I stress the word "place". I did NOT give my child away. I placed him in a loving home. At any rate, I contacted the first agency and met with their rep. They sent me letters and pictures of adoptive parents and their respective homes. However, after meeting with their rep several times, I realized that they were only after my child for the money. I was totally disgusted. We are talking about a life, human life.

I know that when I was pregnant with my son in 1993 and also when I was pregnant with my daughter, who is now 16 months old, all I wanted in the whole wide world was a HEALTHY child. There is NOTHING wrong with wanting a healthy child.

I am heartsick that you had to go through this debacle with this "agency". I praise you for going through hoops and doing all the research you can to help your child. I am saddened by the responses on this web site by other people. But if we all had the same thoughts and feelings, it would be a pretty boring world.

God Bless you and your family. May you find answers and help your son to attain his highest potential. Just your love alone is more than he had before.

Having worked with developementally delayed children for a long time, there is hope. for example, when i was a teen a neighbor gave birth to a down syndrom boy, they were devistated. Ok he cant deal with some of the everyday problems that many of us can, but he is a gifted man now, runs an autobody repair shop, and re does street rods ( you know cars that when done are valued at 100's of thousands of dolars) his work is beyond belief. not a visable flaw to it. FAS kids can be a handful, but even with delayed early milestones, this does not mean this kid is destine to livinghis lifein a stupor. Had family that both boys were rearded but they functioned well ( when kid i never realized they were retarded thought they were closer to my age) it is the love and nuturing hat makes all the difference in these kids lives. Yeah takes some work but frankly never know what you are going to get if you could have your own kids. I have one with bipolar disorder and is doing very well.

Can teach even severe and profound mentally retarded to function, and have done and seen it. PPL with IQ's below 70 reading the NY times and understanding it. Ok they cant alway slive alone, but there are supervised apartments and such that all hope is not gone. Now that you have this child, it is time to put a plan of action together. Even at under 3 reading and playing with your child is the most importan, whether he is normal or has problems. Nobody is perfect and a shame that you didnt get what you requested, however you sound like an intellegant person, time to put the brain cells to use and assist this child in making a life that is the best he could have.

Costs are a problem but there are many groups that might be able to help, contact the united way and see what programs they have. If he has ambitory problems contact the shriners. Speach and hearing problems contact your local school district, they are supposed to provide services for special needs kids beore entering school ( my son got speach training at 3) It is a matter of researching things and getting the ball moving. Hard to do that when anger fils the heart for an agency or country that is no longer involved. Call a lawyer and sue the agency for money for your childs treatment costs. can sue the docs for the same although have no idea if you can get money from russia for that.

You know would love to have a special needs child, why because these kids have more love in thier little finger then most ppl can put together in thier whole bodies. Right now not in a possition to adopt, might be in the future, but have a disabled girl friend, and she needs all my attention ( she has physical disabilityies and mental illness) So remember not everyone is perfect, and move on to help the boy

Wouldnt it be nice if every child were healthy, happy and well adjusted?

Unfortunately, we just never know what we will get in life.

You could have given birth to a child just like the one you adopted...its the luck of the draw.

For some reason you are blessed with a special child, of all the thousands of families this child could have been placed with, he found his way to you.

This child will teach you something...I hope you are listening.

A birthmom,

This adoption agency LIED and stuck this couple with a severely developmentally delayed child. This is a BIG deal. There is nothing wrong with adults wanting healthy children, after all if they wanted to adopt kids with all sorts or problems, you don't have to pay $$$ to an adoption agency for that, just find the closest crack w***e. So because you are the bleeding heart that just loves mentally and physically disabled children, does not mean its wrong for people to want healthy kids, and it does not give this adoption agency to act fraudulantly.

Have a nice day!

Dearest Emily,

I am protecting our son by not using his name. DO NOT TELL ME WHAT I HAVE NOT DONE - YOU HAVE NO EARTHLY IDEA WHAT WE HAVE DONE AND HOW MUCH MONEY WE HAVE SPENT - TO GET HIM THE CARE HE NEEDS. The agency was wrong in lying to us period (can you rebut that - it is ok for them to change birth measurements, birth facts and birth diagnosis?). That does not make me an unfit parent.

The reason he is delayed is no fault of ours - you do not know how much we have done and how many specialist and therapist we have hired to get him to reach his potential.

I should think it is obvious why he isn't devloping. You aren't involved with him, you don't love him enough. You don't even call him by his name, or "my son". You are why he is failing.

I am the oldest of six children in my family, four of us adopted. All four of us who are adopted are different races.

I have a sister from Mexico who has severe developmental problems which didn't exhibit until later in her childhood because my mother loved her and stimulated her intellectually enough that it wasn't readily obvious. She is an adult and has children of her own and she reads and writes at about a second grade level. She will probably never advance beyond that. You know what? That is okay, we love her and accept her as she is.

Another brother of mine, he is white... adopted and born in America... also has problems, raging ADHD, Obsessive compulsive disorder, and borderline schitzophrenia. These disorders are suspected the be caused by the fact that his mother was a fetal alcohol baby. He is on a cocktail of different drugs to control his disorders and is now in high school. He is the nearest and dearest of all my siblings, like a son to me. Know what? We don't care about his disorders, we love him and accept him as well.

Lastly my youngest brother who my mother did give birth to... has down syndrome. It meant a lot of big changes for our family when he was born. When he was a toddler my entire family went to sign language classes so that we could communicate with him until his mouth could form the words. He is a high functioning ADHD child, now in junior high. He will never advance mentally beyond the age of 8, no matter what. Know what? Doesn't matter. We love and accept him as he is. As since down syndrome patients die in their thirties we will mourn when our time with him on earth is over.

So sorry that your perfect normal child isn't perfect or normal. Adjust. There are no guarantees in life, and certainly none in being parents. Obviously you haven't discovered that yet, because you aren't really parents yet.

Either quit calling him "the child" and treat him like your son or give him to someone who will love him for who and what he is.

Do not, I repeat do not adopt again. I have found my birthmother and talked with many others. They give their child up to fulfill a barren woman's dream of having children of her own. They give their children to parents who will love them unconditionally and stick by them through thick and thin. How you treat your son is a shame to adoptive parents everywhere.

Get a dog!

It is amazing what diligent parental involement and love can do for a special needs child. I wish you and your family nothing but the best. Shame on the agency for misleading you. Find a support group to help you along the way, it will work wonders.

It is amazing what diligent parental involement and love can do for a special needs child. I wish you and your family nothing but the best. Shame on the agency for misleading you. Find a support group to help you along the way, it will work wonders.