Melaleuca lied to us the business that doesn't give a d**n slow processing refunds false promises thieves Idaho falls Idaho *EDitor's Comment

Melaleuca is a direct to consumer company.  As an Independent Representative of the Company, it's LITERALLY impossible for me to buy a Value Kit for someone else.  I can only buy one for myself, and that's only if I buy one within 60 days of signing up.  Otherwise I have to pay full price, so how is it possible that a director bought one for you, that just doesn't any make sense.

Additionally, I'm a person that suffers from Asthma, Rashes, Allergies and all sorts of negative reactions to things like Bleach, Ammonia Formaldehyde and Phosphates.  These are EXACTLY the things that Melaleuca has removed from their products, so people like me can do simple things like wash my clothes, without worrying about breaking out in a Rash after I put it on, so again your claim about negative reactions doesn't really make any sense either.

Finally, out of the nearly 400 products they have, I've run into a couple of things that I didn't like (Like the Cereal... some like it, just not my taste).  I called the company, they gave me an RMA, I emptied and flattened the box and mailed it back to them in an envelope and they gave me a full refund within about 48Hrs of receiving the box.  I never had to call them back or anything.  That is the same experience that all of my friends and relatives have had with them, so again what you say about the return policy didn't make any sense either.

Melaleuca has won all sorts of awards for the conduct of their business and they didn't get to nearly a Billion in Sales without treating their customers right.  People have all sorts of reasons for posting negative things out there, but in all honesty, this just seems like a made up story.

It is my opinion that some companies, while legal in their practices are unethical in thier dealings. There is nothing that Melaleuca does that is outright illegal that I am aware of. However, I believe that this company pushes the envelope of what is ethical. All a company has to do is put the legal responsibility elsewhere. It doesn't really seem to matter if business practices are ethical so long as they are legal. It's very simple really. This is nothing new. Let me give you an example of how legal padding in an MLM can work and how it can shield the parent company.

See the person that gets you into an MLM or other work at home business in the first place is not Melaleuca or Amway or whatever company the person is promoting. Its some work-at-home person, most likely a friend or close associate who is promoting the products of a given company. This person follows a basic script and gives a product demonstration to you to get you interested. This person also has a strict set of guidelines and information that they MUST follow.

It just so happens that these strict guidelines are the ones about the gritty details of the business, things that if given up front may decrease the chance that a new enrollee will sign up. The enroller probably knows this. Now the person promoting MUST give these details up front. But they also know that if they do there is a good chance that the investigator might not sing up. So what happens? Follow this to its logical conclusion... some enrollers sugar-coat, neglect pieces, or try to otherwise obscure or minimize these details even though they are not supposed to. You fool yourself if you think that this would not happen.

Now say an enroller does this. Obscures the facts and gets a new client by guile. Who then is at fault? Legally... the enroller. The parent company has done nothing illegal. After all the instructions clearly stated that the critical information MUST NOT be skipped minimized obscured or neglected.

In no case can you prove that the parent company had any malicious intent. You cannot prove that the parent company knowingly relied on the greed and fallibility of individuals to dupe new enrollees into joining up. You cannot prove that they knew this might happen and counted on it. You cannot prove anything. You can only speculate and in no case can you meet the burden of proof required for recompense or damages. You could probably however, sue your enroller (who is most likely a friend or relative).

It is my opinion that while the actions of MLM companies like Melaleuca are completely legal they are morally questionable.

I already know what the rebuttals to my opinions will be. I've heard them all before.

I have opted for another career choice, so i do not sell Melaleuca products, but i do use the products. I have been very pleased with the Melaleuca products. I tend to be very sensitive to medications and such, but have had no bad experiances with this product line whatsoever. I have also had nothing but good experiances with the staff at Melaleuca. Their toll free number is printed on their materials, and if you have any problems at all you just call that number and the problem is fixed right away. This company has top of the line products and customer service.

Hi, I have been reading all these comments about melaleuca because I've been having second thoughts about it, but it's not very convincing to stay when you read that it is a great company blah blah and that everyone is so helpful, when the people working for mela are attacking these people that have a negative view of mela and are trying to voice it.

The majority of you people don't sound nice, you sound really rude and like you're shoving your opinions down their throats! Most of you guys are more rude than the people bashing melaleuca!! You are the people promoting mela?? You all say the same thing, and it's the same thing I've heard over and over again, so in ways it does sound like you all have been brain washed, don't get me wrong I like the products and they work amazing, but Wal - Mart doesn't make me to buy so much at their store every month either!!! But yes a lot of these comment on here has given me a little more help with my decision.

I was involved with Melalueca, through a catty company called Stayin Home and Lovin It! who "teamed up" with them, promising part time work and full time income. (Heck my "mentor" was making almost $100,000/yr and "only" worked 4 or 5 hours a day, pregnant!) There is NO WAY to make a decent income with this company unless you live, breathe, and sleep Melaleuca. You have it drilled into your brain that if you use anything other then their products, you and your family will die or get cancer. You have to recruit, recruit, recruit constantly every day, even by leaving your business card on gas station pumps! (they have some fabulous ideas HA) They try to tell you there are all these free sites to post on to get enrollees, but they DON'T tell you there are dozens of OTHER Melaleuca junkies posting there too, and a lot of complaints about them! (Don't try it on AOL message boards!) Then they start sending you "lead" sites, to pay a bunch of money to get leads, which of course don't ever pan out either.

This is just another pyramid scheme to drag people in with empty promises, or give you the whole BS line about "you do the same shopping at the grocery store every week anyway, etc etc" (this is part of their script they give you). Also, last time I check you paid an annual fee for a warehouse place like Costco or Sam's Club, and they didn't FORCE you to buy $50 worth of their stuff every month. To maintain a Melaleuca memberhsip you have to buy so many points each month (stating at 35, which equals usually $50-60+). And if you DON'T buy your required amount, they send you a box full of things THEY pick out and charge your credit card regardless of whether you can afford it or not. When they autobilled me after I sent in my cancellation notice (YES by snail mail) it took FOREVER to get a response and 2 months to get a refund, and I got that ONLY after I contacted my local newspaper agency that specializes in getting refunds from scammers.

And yes, when you do try to cancel, you get the whole guilt trip bombardment about how you don't need to start the business, just try the products, you grocery shop anyway for the same price blah blah blah scripted story you're taught when you sign up. And NO their products are NOT the same price as Wal Mart (per use, of course, read the fine print) and they don't especially work any better.

And if you want to be one of their "Directors" or above in their ladder, they HIGHLY recommend buying the "value pack" or "career pack", because if you don't, you'll never make it. I could go on and on, but just take my word for it, unless you want to dump hundreds of dollars into buying products and advertising, IT WON'T WORK! And it's more of a headache then your current household cleaners cause!! (And the Access bars ARE nasty, and they're sleep aid pills smell like a dead animal, it was GROSS!)

Ok, Let me say that I will never try melacua or whatever its called. I would never pay over 200 dollars for any product, especially vitamins. If you goto your local GNC or Vitamin world you can
get unquestionably good products that as long as you have a receipt of your purchase you can get your money back if not satisfied.

People looking for fast ways to make money...THERE ISN't one..Money is the result of hard work and effort.
NOT SELLING VITAMINS...LOL! If it sounds too good to be true..IT IS! IF they ask you for over a hundred bucks up front...Say you don't have a credit card ir bank account and see what they say or what happens...Stupid people are the prey of these scammers so WAKE UP!

Regarding Cheryl ( Legal & Medical Expert)of Calgary's comments that in Canada we would never find a DIN number on our store bought vitamin brands. I am a resident of Calgary Alberta, where I am employed as a pharmacy technician (does this make me a medical expert? tee hee!) Please see the above noted DIN for the Flinstones vitamins I purchased this week. Perhaps they still don't serve my family any purpose without that patented fructose compounding? You can patent any new, innovative or unique product or technique & market it. It simply means that this product, or means of production is "owned" by you once patented. Perhaps Bayer should consider coming up with a snazzy patent of their own - patented dinosaur compounding!

I am actually a customer of Melaleuca. I love the household cleaning products, however I maintain my customer status mostly to please a family member who is trying to build a business. I have had allergic reactions to the shampoo and hand lotion. I find it difficult to find enough product to order my minimum purchase each month, but the products I do order are enjoyed. I simply won't spend money on the items that are overpriced or unusable to my family. Fructose compounding is a mere marketing slogan in my opinion. I watch people I love fall into cult-like transes when "sharing" the Melaleuca miricle. These seemingly intelligent people seem to lose focus on reality where Melaleuca is concerned. It is a shame that the MLM - "type" companies can lose their product credibility due to lunacy of their own customers. I guess thats the nature of the game!

I have read through many reports and rebutals about the company Melaleuca. I just wanted to let everyone know that "J.J." is a independant representative of the company and has some very good information listed in his rebuttals, however, the attitude he protrays is not representative of a hostile company or attidute.. he may be very upset by having to handle some comments that were not owed to him.. and compounded each message till the bottom (were you are reading this message..)

I am a "Customer" only of Mela, which means I am buying products just to use them!.. I have started to let a few people know so I hope to turn it into a home business but if it fails who cares? I am already saving money each month ($8) on a product order I get every month!.. otherwise I'd buy it at walmart for $8 more.. does not sound like much money but the product quailty is far superior to what is offered around town...

I am in a team for Mela and we have an excellent group of coaches with meetings/help 3 times per week completely online.. or on the phone if you wish to talk without a MIC... So I am not sure were people say their is no support, you just need to join with the right people I guess. Each and every person who joins Mela regardless of being in a team or now will have the full support of their "Customer Service" devision in asking about product info, billing inquires, enrollments, etc, etc.

I'd hope that no Mela member decieves anyone else about the company.. it could happen, but we have nothing to gain!.. Mela rewards members for growing their business and helping others succeed (you can only advance if your downline succeeds).. this is the only fact that borders on a MLM.. otherwise it is completely CDM. Just look at me buying products because I want too :o)..

I came on here to find information on Melaleuca, I realize that no matter how good the company people are always going to have problems one way or another. But it is how that company and its associates deal with those problems that really tells you if they are truley worthy of their good name. Between the run a around that Tracy got from the company and the horrible comments you made to her because she had a allergic reaction to the products, you can bet I found what I was looking for. There is no way in hell I'm going to sign up and pay to be treated this way. I realize you are loyal and that is great for you and Melaleuca but no matter what a product is made from there are bound to people who have reactions to them and NO AMOUNT of following directions in the world will change that. No product is PERFECT in every way for everyone. A good sales person and representative would know that, and except it. Not belittle a person for it. Not to mention all your other hostile and deffensive posts on here. Most everyone who made a comment on here against Melaleuca at least did it in a civilized manner.

As for good quality products, I hope you don't really believe that your company is the only one capable of this. In fact I have tried one such company that has the same concept as MElaleuca and they don't require you to have a monthly shippment, and they don't treat people like crap when they want to leave. When I left they were very nice and helpful to me still, and that is why I'm still their costumer. Well that and their top quality products.

Instead of helping Melaleuca you are making them look as bad as some people believe them to be. A company is only as good as those who represent it.

I have been a customer in Melaleuca for over 10 years and when I joined it was to get the best health products for the best price,simply changing stores.I new that I could quit anytime if this was not so,everything I could say about Melaleuca has aready been said.

I am a director not a distributor or an agent I am a customer who told a few people about it helped them set up an account,and one of them has been with me for 118 months just because she loves the products.

I have not done my business for nearly three years because my wife was quite ill and I was her prime caregiver.Every month on about the 17th I received my residual cheque, for doing something once and if I die my daughter will recieve my cheque because she will inherit my business.

I also have been able to write off the business on my income tax every year.
I am 76 years old and I know if I worked a little harder on the business I could make a lot more money but I really don't need it so I just meet people and tell them about it and if they are interested I show them what to do and help them get started.

I have never had any trouble sorting out problems with the company at any time and everone has problems even ripoffreport must have them right.

Thank you for letting me have my say I appreciate it very much.

I have been a customer in Melaleuca for over 10 years and when I joined it was to get the best health products for the best price,simply changing stores.I new that I could quit anytime if this was not so,everything I could say about Melaleuca has aready been said.

I am a director not a distributor or an agent I am a customer who told a few people about it helped them set up an account,and one of them has been with me for 118 months just because she loves the products.

I have not done my business for nearly three years because my wife was quite ill and I was her prime caregiver.Every month on about the 17th I received my residual cheque, for doing something once and if I die my daughter will recieve my cheque because she will inherit my business.

I also have been able to write off the business on my income tax every year.
I am 76 years old and I know if I worked a little harder on the business I could make a lot more money but I really don't need it so I just meet people and tell them about it and if they are interested I show them what to do and help them get started.

I have never had any trouble sorting out problems with the company at any time and everone has problems even ripoffreport must have them right.

Thank you for letting me have my say I appreciate it very much.

Potential Employee...

I listened to 30 minutes of a presentation tonight on a 3-way call. I have been on this website before and read some of these comments before about Melaleuca, but returned here after listening tonight. With all of this hostility in these rebuttals, I wouldn't even think about joining this organization. I agree, that all contracts have to be read and followed, but this is not for me. Thanks to this website, countless people are being educated and prevented from being ripped off! Thanks ripoff report!


Dear Lorna:

In the above post, you call yourself a "potential employee."

I don't believe this company hires its "employees" by simply having the person listen to a 30-minute telephonic presentation.

Somehow, I believe that you are not finished researching this award-winning company and concept. I suggest that you contact the Idaho Attorney General's office and request a report on this company's way of doing business. Also, contact the proper BBB.

In any event, what's your alternative?

Consumer: Pay overinflated prices at your local health foods store for supplements and product that do not deliver on what they advertise?

Income Earner: Get a second J.O.B. (Just Over Broke)?? and make your new boss richer?

Whichever path you choose, however, Good luck to you.

Telling the Story,

Potential Employee...

I listened to 30 minutes of a presentation tonight on a 3-way call. I have been on this website before and read some of these comments before about Melaleuca, but returned here after listening tonight. With all of this hostility in these rebuttals, I wouldn't even think about joining this organization. I agree, that all contracts have to be read and followed, but this is not for me. Thanks to this website, countless people are being educated and prevented from being ripped off! Thanks ripoff report!

I was on the telephone introduction today with two of Melaleuca reps, as well as a number of new recruits. The first rep, from Michigan, extolled the virtues of the company, including its award/s from the US Chamber of Commerce and recognition from the Better Business Bureau.

After reading the posts here, and following my own conclusion the company is certainly MLM - tho the reps were careful to compare it to life insurance, with residuals... -- I shall certainly look into the matter more closely as a legitimate business entity before I invest in any valu-pak or other. On that note, I have had occasion to return a product to the place of purchase, or write to its manufacturer; in time, I discovered my 'complaint' had been addressed in a revised version of the product, because the company found my objection valid and reasonable.

Regards to all.

I have MY answer now, Thanks to you all!

I found the name Melaleuca, Inc for the first time today in my local newspaper. It was an advertisement for an Administrative Assistant locally. How could I work for a company who has all this hostility directed towards it, and FROM it?

I could see my first day now, answering angry calls from customers! I would tell them though the one thing I learned was to deal with Melaleuca DIRECTLY!

Dear Lord, (and only he knows) I could not be a part of such mess, as like most people I have my own problems now without inviting more. I am certainly glad I did a search for Melalenuca on the Internet! Wow, and Woe.

Thanks to you all (AND WWW.RIPOFFREPORT.COM)!
Anna

Wow, I can't believe how long one topic can go on. I've been shopping at Melaleuca for almost 7 years.Absolutley love the stuff, but I'm not getting into any of that. Much more than enough has been written from both sides.

Thanks for the laughs everyone....the immature people on both sides of this argument make me remember why I hated high school.

What I do see is a pattern. Untrained and/or unethical enrollers.

I just want to point out one reason the enroller might have the value pack invoice. Some business builders keep 1 or 2 value packs on hand so their new customer can take it home at the time of enrollment. It goes like this....The Value pack is given to the new customer immediatley, the new customer orders a value pack over the phone to replace the one just given to them by the enroller...therefore, the invoice ends up at the enroller's home inside the replaced value pack..(no sensitive info on it though). I'm sure if the value pack was sent back with a short note, such as..."Lost my invoice, but my name is_____and my phone number is_____, and I was enrolled by_____" I'm quite sure this would've been sufficent. In fact, someone in my business returned a box with nothing more than her return address, all went smooth...a little slow, but smooth nonetheless. The senior director involved in this poor lady's (sorry, but I've been reading so long I forgot her name) dilemma should be ashamed (if the Value Pack was in his posession) that he didn't just drive over to her and give her a cash refund, I always have, (only 3 times in 7 years I'm proud to say) he knows that value pack will be resold within a few days if he/she's doing what senior directors do.

To the customer that felt burned in the value pack situation...I apologize on behalf of all of us decent normal human marketing executives. My very first enrollment was allergic to some of the products too. She's no longer a Melaleuca customer, but still one of my best friends.

I just want you to know that not all Melaleuca directors are "brainwashed", I never accused my friend of grabbing the amway soap by accident, and, if it makes you feel any better... the people that have this mentality make very little, if any money working a melaleuca business. They usually spend their time attacking those that don't agree with them, (as you have witnessed)versus doing the things that really earn our commissions. Good honest THOROUGH (meaning the backup order is no surprise)quality enrollments.

If you need any assistance, or have any questions at all please let me know anthonychiaro@iglide.net My site can be viewed at http://AdvancingWithUs.OwnANewBusiness.com My phone number can be found there if you need it.

I feel so bad about how Melaleuca was represented to you and will be glad to help any way that I can.

VW versus BMW
Good points JJ. I appreciate your clearing up some more of how the payments are calculated. I guess it comes down to the fact that I'm skeptical of the alleged superior content of Melaleuca's products. Will their hand soap really do something better than Costco's will for me? If so, is it 10 times better (thats about how much more it costs per ounce, see that part of my earlier message)? For my family, on a limited income, the answer is easy. If you have the money to spend, and you really believe it is 10 times better, then great! And no, I'm not willing to RAISE my limited income by harassing my friends and family about how they should try melaleuca. All families and cultures are different. Some might welcome a suggestion to try a new product line. I believe mine would react with a lot of skepticism and scorn if I were to try to get them to order this stuff that I myself am unwilling to pay extra for.

JJ, it obviously works great for you, and I have no problem with that. We have heard from many people who are THRILLED with melaleuca, and that is great! ****My PROBLEM with the company is that they make the claim that you can basically just change where you shop, and get better products without paying more.**** This may be true for people pulling in 6 figures per year who don't comparison shop, but not for cheapskates like me who gets the best deal on everything. And the other point I made (answering Tim's original question) was that they clearly DO appeal to some people's gullible hopes to get-rich-quick, which some with Melaleuca have denied. I noticed you didn't mention this JJ. The funny thing is, I really probably would choose a VW over a BMW! : - ) So I guess it boils down to a culture clash, in many respects. Just please don't say anyone can switch to Melaleuca and pay the same as they're already paying elsewhere. If you're really a believer, forget the price and focus on the products, as T from MN said. Thanks for listening.

ACCCKKKKK Please stop....
Ok so here it is... I just got intorduced to Melaleuca this past week. I joined as a PC, and have placed my 1st order, waiting for it to arrive as we speak. YAYYYY

I personally LOVE the Attain bars, especially the peanutbutter crunch kind. Mmmmmmmmmm (patting tummy)

Also my friend gave me her new tube of Pain A Trate she got out of her value pack until I get mine. I have a bad back and I have been using other otc products for it and I get rashes and terrible itching. When I started to use the Pain A Trate I did NOT experience any of that.
I am interested in learning more about the business side of things, but must say that if I should try to make a go of the business end of it I would never lose sight of how I would want to be treated as a customer.

Also, why would Tracy's "agent" have her shipping invoice? We order our product ourselves, and have shipped directly to our OWN homes. It seems plausibel to me that Tracy your bad experience with Melaleuca started with your "agent".
I am sorry to hear of the troubles you went through, no customer should have to stand for being treated like that. Kudo's for stepping forward, however please do not let a couple of people in a company as large as M is to set your mind in stone as to your opinion.

God Bless and may we all find our "thing" in life we are meant to do....

Peter:

Below are the last paragraphs of your posting about how disgusted you are with Melaleuca, and how happy you are with Cotsco. I will try to explain things to you from my perspective, that of a happy, lifetime Melaleuca Preferred Customer:

:::::::Finally, to attempt to answer Tim's other questions, as I understand it, you get a 7% commission on all orders from anyone signed up by someone you signed up, down up to 7 generations.::::::::

Partially accurate. You collect the 7% on up to over 97,000 Preferred Customers in your 7 generations if you are a "Director." A "Director" is someone who shares his/her Melaleuca story with 8 other people who sign up to try the products and services with no risk. When you become a "Director," by the way, your income on your personal enrollees' monthly purchases doubles to 14%.

If you are not a "Director," you will collect the 7% on up to 30 other Preferred Customers who were enrolled chronologically by your enroller or anyone above him/her, 7 generations up. I know many loyal Preferred Customers who do not do the business at all, who receive checks EVERY MONTH of anywhere from $2.50 up to $110. This is becasue of those 30 accounts that were placed under them by someone above. Melaleuca chooses to "thank you" every month for being a loyal monthly customer with its 7% company revenue share.

By the way: how much was the last check that Costco sent you Peter, for being a loyal Cotsco customer?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

::::::Page 34 says "Seven families earn commissions from each customer's purchase from Melaleuca." Does this mean that 49% of everything that is paid for products goes out as commission? Wow! And that doesn't even take into account various one-time bonuses they appear to have. That shows you how overpriced all of the stuff must be then!
Which leads me to...::::::::

Partially accurate. Actually, Melaleuca shares with its worldwide family of Preferred Customers $.54 cents of every dollar it takes in. Please tell me if you know of any other product company who shares this much of its revenue with its customers.

"Overpriced?" If I NEED $100. worth of Melaleuca products for my own consumption every month, and I receive a check of $400 or $500 or more every month, all because I'm sharing my story with others, instead of selling and delivering products, and because I help others do the same, do you really think that I'm going to even bother about the product price?

But even if I was to worry about prices, when was the last time that you purchased a world class tooth polish that contains the medicinal properties of tea tree oil at $2.99? If you did, where did you make this purchase?

Additionally, when I place my monthly order by the 25th of the month, Melaleuca gives me an automatic 10% of my product point order in "Advantage Dollars" that I can use the following month to redeem for free products.

Does Costco or the manufacturers of "Suave" have such an automatic rebate for you every month, Peter?

---------------------------------------

::::::::Point #2 - Are Melaleuca's products truly cost-effective? I hear over and over again that not only are they all better for you, but they will save you money! Hmmm. I live in rural Alaska, where the cost of shipping goods can be very expensive. Folks here buy stuff at Costco or Sam's Club in Anchorage (big city), and then have it flown in via US Mail, or they make a big bulk barge order that comes all the way from Seattle. Or you can buy local and pay $4 for a can of soup. So I was open to the idea that Melaleuca might be a way to save me money. However, in looking at the catalog, there is almost nothing that i use that they can deliver for less than what I get it for already!:::::::

Are you getting "it" (Melaleuca quality and safety) already from Sam's Club?

Or are you comparing a VW with a BMW?

What you get at Sam's Club doesn't ever come near to what I get from Melaleuca when it comes to quality, safety and convenience.

Can you buy one bottle of one of those junk products from Cotsco or are you forced to buy a whole case?

I only order one of each product I need from Melaleuca. I don't have much room for product storage in my house anyway.

--------------------------------

:::::For example, I can get a 15 oz bottle of Suave shampoo to my door for about $1.50 to $2. Melaleuca's shampoo? 6 oz for $10 or 33 oz for $24.50! "preferred customers" (you have to order a certain amount every month) would pay $7 and $17. Plus shipping! Another example, their best deal on liquid hand soap is 40 oz for $29 ($18 for preferred customers). I got 151.5 oz of hand soap at costco recently, for $5.89! On and on and on. Their best toothpaste deal is 3 tubes of 4.8 oz for $13.50 ($7.99 for PC). I get 3 tubes, 8 oz each, at Costco for something like $5. That's nearly twice the toothpaste for 60% of the $. How about a candle for $17.50 that burns for 60 hours? I thought Pier 1 was expensive, charging about $10 for a tower candle that burns for about 250 hours! Their long distance telephone deal isn't too bad, 4.5 cents per minute and $1.95 monthly fee. I get (again from a calling card I get at costco) 2.96 cents per minute, zero monthly fee). I think the closest thing to cost-effective that they have is their cleaning products. Mela-Magic is supposed to make 32 gallons of cleaner, for only $7.50 ($5 for PC), so I bought that. And I bought 2 MelaPower laundry soaps(96 loads for $21.50 or $14.99) and 2 melabrite brighteners. I paid $12.89 at costco for 300 oz (96 loads) of "All Free & Clear" laundry soap. So even that one is more expensive with Melaleuca. And even if they do have 1 or 2 products that are economically justifiable for ordering, there are not enough of them to order every month to allow you to meet the standard of a "preferred customer", which means you pay the much higher price. I'm sorry, I'll pay a little bit more for something that is supposed to be better for me, but I'm not going to overpay by as much as they want me to. And why should I have to order every month to get the better price? The whole thing is cheesy, manipulative, and dishonest. They say the 2 reasons to buy from Melaleuca are health and cost. I'm skeptical about the health benefits, and I KNOW that the cost is a LOT more with them. Maybe if they didn't pay out 50% of everything they sell as commissions, the cost would be affordable for normal people, and more people would order from them! Anyway, I'm done. Congratulations if you actually read all this.

Peter - Rural, Alaska
U.S.A.::::

Again Peter, don't compare a VW with a BMW. Although they both have 4 tires and will get you from point A to point B, it a very different quality of ride my friend.

By the way, here is a Melajoke:

BMW = Believe Melaleuca Works

PS. My yearly renewal fee in Melaleuca is $12. An amount that barely covers the cost of the monthly magazines and catalogs that I receive. Is the yearly renewal fee at Cotsco and Sam's Clubs more than $12? (I heard is something in the neighborhood of $40.)

I have 2 points regarding Melaleuca. The first is in response to T, from Dearborn, MN, who attempted to answer these questions from Tim:

"Does Melaleuca attempt to make people believe that they can achieve financial success by selling their products? how exactly does one turn a profit from Melaleuca distribution or referrals? ..how do the distribution, recruiting and compensation systems work?"

T writes in response: "With our organization, we do not attempt to make people believe they can achieve financial success with Melaleuca. Instead, we focus our attention solely on the products."

If this is true, I commend T! However, as someone who signed up with Melaleuca and got my first shipment about a week ago, my experience is different. I have a friend who is always jumping on the latest bandwagon of how to get rich quick. He is always telling me about this or that scheme that will make him rich. I ordered from him mostly because it was so important to him. With my order came all kinds of literature (a stack about 5-6 inches high!) and an audio tape and a VHS tape. Man, I just wanted some laundry soap! One of the publications is called "New Horizons". In it's 42 pages, it talks about Melaleuca as a company and its vision. It includes MANY quotes about how you can "acheive financial success" (just as Tim said) with them. Quotes like:

"Helping people reach their goals with exceptional products and a way to prosper financially by sharing these products with others" (p. 3)

"Prosper Financially" sounds a lot like "acheiving financial success" to me.
How about this quote from the same document?

"As your business grows, you can qualify as a Presidential Director and receive a one-time, $1 million Presidential Director bonus!" (in large blue type on p. 38)

To re-run that quote from above, T in Minnesota says "With our organization, we do not attempt to make people believe they can achieve financial success with Melaleuca. Instead, we focus our attention solely on the products."

I say it's too bad your company higher-ups don't share your philosophy T! CLEARLY, Melaleuca preys on some people's get-rich-quick dreams, (like in my friend's case) by emphasizing how much money they can make, and downplaying the necessary work required.

Finally, to attempt to answer Tim's other questions, as I understand it, you get a 7% commission on all orders from anyone signed up by someone you signed up, down up to 7 generations. Page 34 says "Seven families earn commissions from each customer's purchase from Melaleuca." Does this mean that 49% of everything that is paid for products goes out as commission? Wow! And that doesn't even take into account various one-time bonuses they appear to have. That shows you how overpriced all of the stuff must be then!
Which leads me to...
--------------------------
Point #2 - Are Melaleuca's products truly cost-effective? I hear over and over again that not only are they all better for you, but they will save you money! Hmmm. I live in rural Alaska, where the cost of shipping goods can be very expensive. Folks here buy stuff at Costco or Sam's Club in Anchorage (big city), and then have it flown in via US Mail, or they make a big bulk barge order that comes all the way from Seattle. Or you can buy local and pay $4 for a can of soup. So I was open to the idea that Melaleuca might be a way to save me money. However, in looking at the catalog, there is almost nothing that i use that they can deliver for less than what I get it for already!

For example, I can get a 15 oz bottle of Suave shampoo to my door for about $1.50 to $2. Melaleuca's shampoo? 6 oz for $10 or 33 oz for $24.50! "preferred customers" (you have to order a certain amount every month) would pay $7 and $17. Plus shipping! Another example, their best deal on liquid hand soap is 40 oz for $29 ($18 for preferred customers). I got 151.5 oz of hand soap at costco recently, for $5.89! On and on and on. Their best toothpaste deal is 3 tubes of 4.8 oz for $13.50 ($7.99 for PC). I get 3 tubes, 8 oz each, at Costco for something like $5. That's nearly twice the toothpaste for 60% of the $. How about a candle for $17.50 that burns for 60 hours? I thought Pier 1 was expensive, charging about $10 for a tower candle that burns for about 250 hours! Their long distance telephone deal isn't too bad, 4.5 cents per minute and $1.95 monthly fee. I get (again from a calling card I get at costco) 2.96 cents per minute, zero monthly fee). I think the closest thing to cost-effective that they have is their cleaning products. Mela-Magic is supposed to make 32 gallons of cleaner, for only $7.50 ($5 for PC), so I bought that. And I bought 2 MelaPower laundry soaps(96 loads for $21.50 or $14.99) and 2 melabrite brighteners. I paid $12.89 at costco for 300 oz (96 loads) of "All Free & Clear" laundry soap. So even that one is more expensive with Melaleuca. And even if they do have 1 or 2 products that are economically justifiable for ordering, there are not enough of them to order every month to allow you to meet the standard of a "preferred customer", which means you pay the much higher price. I'm sorry, I'll pay a little bit more for something that is supposed to be better for me, but I'm not going to overpay by as much as they want me to. And why should I have to order every month to get the better price? The whole thing is cheesy, manipulative, and dishonest. They say the 2 reasons to buy from Melaleuca are health and cost. I'm skeptical about the health benefits, and I KNOW that the cost is a LOT more with them. Maybe if they didn't pay out 50% of everything they sell as commissions, the cost would be affordable for normal people, and more people would order from them! Anyway, I'm done. Congratulations if you actually read all this.

since our Value Pack arrived our cleaning and vitality and peace of mind have became immensily better I cant imagine anyone not useing Melaleuca products if they can read ! Its so simply easy. If you use them the way the instructions explain in english or many other languages so there is no reason not to understand.Fact is we used all the other products Tide,Fantastic,colgate tooth paste, just compare the ingredients it will scare the heck out of you!And we were shipped short on our second order we called and within 2 to 3 days we had it.I am not making a fortune but its not melaluecas fault. You cant expect any company or new business to make it big over night.So lady sorry for your luck! But we love Melaleuca!

I tried to read all of the responses to the complaint on Melaleuca. Not every company has what every person is expecting. The basic philosophy of any organization, be it a Church or a Company, can very easily be misinterpreted by those who try to share it with others.

It is my belief that no one should have bothered even giving attention to this TIM person who obviously just wants to rag on anything he can. It seems to me that the best way to help the people who say they had a bad experience is to simply share YOUR OWN EXPERIENCE.

I know for a fact that Melaleuca has a very good track record, for the most part. I know of people who are actual employees and they pride themselves on the integrity of the company. I also know a lot of people who are in it for the business and they are not sorry at all. In fact, I have a friend who has been with them for over 12 of their 18 years. She will never go back to buying anyone else's products.

Just like I've seen with religions, sometimes people take their own visions, their own wishful thinking as the truth. Sometimes they are trying to deceive and sometimes it is what they see as the truth.

I think that a lot of this information that people are yelling about is a lot of emotion. TIM needs to stay out of it, as he doesn't know anything about the company and isn't accomplishing anything by just babbling. I NEVER SAW HIM STATE HIS PERSONAL EXPERIENCE WITH THEM. There I go again, acknowledging his ridiculousness.

The point being is that Melaleuca has a much better track record than a lot of companies. There are plenty of people who left other big companies such as Mary Kay, Amway/Quixtar, Tupperware, etc. to join this company.

Melaleuca executives at the corporate level are people who were top in their fields at the big companies that they came from. We're not talking about someone just dreaming it up and trying to build something that would only help an elect few.

There is a publication "Built on a Solid Foundation" that is very informative about the facts behind Melaleuca. The fact is, Melaleuca has not debt in it's entire 18 year history. The fact is, Melaleuca has PEOPLE who work with and for them. The fact is, sometimes someone out there DOESN'T FOLLOW INSTRUCTIONS.

The woman who put in this complaint to begin with was very naive. You get your value pack from the company and to your house, not from a person!!! CONSUMER DIRECT MARKETING!!! What that means is that the customer deals with the company for their products, customer service, returns, orders.

CONSUMER BEWARE. IF YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO RESEARCH A COMPANY, YOU SHOULDN'T GET INTO IT. IF YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO READ A CONTRACT, DON'T SIGN IT. In this information age, no one should be naive.

Firstly, if you do not like a product in this company you are directed to return it in 60 days or 90 days whichever applies to that specific product. You are advised to send it directly back to the company and call the 1800 # for f/u.

I will say in any company you will find nice people who do like the product, or are building a business with the products, etc. Some people want to be successful but not compromising how they treat people.

However, unfortunately there are those in all companies and organizations, including this company who care more about the almighty dollar and being successful that people don't matter.

I had a little experience when returning the shampoo to melaleuca because i didn't like it..I got a lady on the phone who told me I could not return it and replace it with aproduct of my choice. i was bothered, but I called back and calmly asked another ee who p/u the phone and was very nice and said nothing like the previous person. Evidently both people worked for the same company but each viewed my call differently and therefore treated me that way.

But to finish, my enroller has been supportive and kind, communicative and an example...Any yet I bet you that there are others who have not had that experience.

So bottom line, just because one experiences a bad apple doesn't mean the tree is bad.

I just wanted to say I agree it is sad the direction this thread has taken. One, Tracy, I too am sorry for the experience you had. This is the second time I am with Melaleuca because the first time I had a really bad experience with the person who signed me up. I'm not sure why your friend had your invoice though as she should have helped you place your first order with Melaleuca and had it come to YOU. Two, when you are with a particular company and you comment on people's experiences, please keep in mind you are now portraying the company yourself and you are either going to make the person think their bad experience is the norm or it isn't. The first person who signed me up was awful and after 4 months, I called the company and explained what happened. Not only were they nice every time I talked to them, but they even allowed me to return items from more than 60 days before. It took a little longer than they said it would to get my refund, but not much and again, they were always very nice when I called. This time, I joined with people who really know the business and customer service and my experience has been the complete opposite. I am actually making money, I am using more products than I did before, and again, customer serice and the business line have always been friendly and helpful. As far as telling people they can make a fortune with Melaleuca, anybody should run from those people. Our purpose is to educate people about the toxins in store bought products and offer them an alternative by switching stores. We are customers first and foremost but in appreciation for us referring others, we get a check. How many times have you (in general) referred a person to a restaurant or a movie? This is similar only you get a thank you from Melaleuca. I hope everyone finds the businesses they are looking for. Just be careful before you call a company "bad", it really is the businesses that are bad and not the people representing them.

Dear Tim:

First I do know something about Meleluca and MLMs first hand. My experience has been positive with Meleluca as a consumer and some who dabbled in the business end. I have also been involved with MLM companies that did take advantage of the average person and lost money.

In the MLM company that I was involved in had extremely good products. Many of the participants in this company were physicians due to the quality of these products and the results they observed not only in others but also in themselves. Unlike Meleluca you could not find compatibly priced products on the shelves. Your quota as a distributor was extremely high and yes you had to either stock pile, sell your *** off, or bring in a big hitter in order to get any money from other people's sales below you.

I don't disagree with you that many of these companies are really bad and harm innocent people just trying to find an opportunity to get ahead in life. However, there are some companies out there that are reputable and worth doing business with.

Be aware that with these types of businesses, the companies are only as good as the people you are working with.

Keep in mind that most people that start their own business, regardless of what that business is, will experience a loss in the first three years. So your findings do not surprise me.

Remember, this all started because a poor lady had a terrible experience with a company and JJ was rude in her response.

This could have been any large department store mail order department and her experience would have been the same. I had a terrible experience with the Sam's Club on line auction. Does that mean that Sam's Club is a bad company? No, it means the people that were handling my order, and my issue were incompetent at best.

You used the pretense that the reason Tracy had such a horrible experience was because Meleluca was an MLM.

I am not taking the side of anyone. I just know from 20 years in the service industry dealing with people at all levels, there is always more to the story then what is first told. I responded because I thought that JJ's response was terrible and reflected badly on a respectable company, and you were speaking with out personal knowledge and were wrong about this particular situation.

Thank you for all your research, however, it does not apply in Tracy's situation.

Take Care and have a nice Easter.

Dear Tim:

First I do know something about Meleluca and MLMs first hand. My experience has been positive with Meleluca as a consumer and some who dabbled in the business end. I have also been involved with MLM companies that did take advantage of the average person and lost money.

In the MLM company that I was involved in had extremely good products. Many of the participants in this company were physicians due to the quality of these products and the results they observed not only in others but also in themselves. Unlike Meleluca you could not find compatibly priced products on the shelves. Your quota as a distributor was extremely high and yes you had to either stock pile, sell your *** off, or bring in a big hitter in order to get any money from other people's sales below you.

I don't disagree with you that many of these companies are really bad and harm innocent people just trying to find an opportunity to get ahead in life. However, there are some companies out there that are reputable and worth doing business with.

Be aware that with these types of businesses, the companies are only as good as the people you are working with.

Keep in mind that most people that start their own business, regardless of what that business is, will experience a loss in the first three years. So your findings do not surprise me.

Remember, this all started because a poor lady had a terrible experience with a company and JJ was rude in her response.

This could have been any large department store mail order department and her experience would have been the same. I had a terrible experience with the Sam's Club on line auction. Does that mean that Sam's Club is a bad company? No, it means the people that were handling my order, and my issue were incompetent at best.

You used the pretense that the reason Tracy had such a horrible experience was because Meleluca was an MLM.

I am not taking the side of anyone. I just know from 20 years in the service industry dealing with people at all levels, there is always more to the story then what is first told. I responded because I thought that JJ's response was terrible and reflected badly on a respectable company, and you were speaking with out personal knowledge and were wrong about this particular situation.

Thank you for all your research, however, it does not apply in Tracy's situation.

Take Care and have a nice Easter.

I would just like to say that the President and CEO of Melaleuca built and invented Consumer Direct Marketing. There is no other company that has the compensation plan or can even come close to Melaleuca period!

Melaleuca is not in any way MLM doesn't look like it smell like it or even feel like it.
First off the person that enrolled you as a customer should not have had you product invoice. that comes in the BOX with your products! YOu should have delt DIRECTLY with the company. Humans do make errors! I myself have had products missing and call the company DIRECTLY and have them sent to me FIRST CLASS MAIL with no expense to me.

If you use the products FULL STRENTH as they are CONCENTRATED (you know not reading the labels) you may not have had a reaction and did you think that you may be allergic to TEA TREE OIL?
As far as the ACCESS BARS go, I personally eat them and I give them to my 2 yr. old for extra nutrients and they are quite tasty and full of nutrients! I don't think you became VIOLENTLY ILL from a candy bar! I beleive that you may have exaggerated your claim.

Marketing Executives DO NOT and let me repeat DO NOT have customers invoices! The invoice is in the BOX with the PRODUCTS that are shipped DIRECTLY from Melaleuca! When you enrolled with Mlaleuca you SIGNED a CUSTOMER AGREEMENT and you should have read the TERMS AND CONDITIONS and you would have known that as a customer you are REQUIRED to place a 35BP order per month and if you forget you would be sent a back up order. (That is the only requirement to be a PREFERRED CUSTOMER otherwise you would be buying your products at a DIRECT PRICE)

Melaleuca does not LIE to their customers or Marketing Executives (we are customers too) Melaleuca was built on SOLID PRINCIPLES and HONESTY is one of them!

Melaleuca is NOT GET RICH QUICK and every Marketing Executive is aware of that! If you do your homework you will find that Melaleuca makes available an Annual Income Statistic Report that gives each level of achievemnt along with the % of people at that status and an average time on reaching that goal!

If you were lied to it was not by the company itself it was by a Marketing Executive that should loose their account and status with the company for making such false claims!
Thanks,

Cheryl, just to note, if you look a ways up on this collection of posts (I know the editor hates when you call them "threads") I acknowledged that I knew little of what Maleleuca was all about and asserted that, because of this, I really have no valid complaints about this specific company. I also noted that, in recognizing that the majority of respndents to this report are supporters, that I may be entirely wrong in my preconceptions.

Yes, I have invested a great deal of time studying the areas of sociology, psychology, business and the law, and I feel that my knowledge base on these pertinent subjects gives me a degree of liscence to comment at least on generalities. And you are absolutely correct, I have no right to comment on a specific company that I have not adequately researched.

My interest in Melaleuca was spurned by a study done by Jon Taylor, PhD, of the Consumer Awareness Institute, entitled "Where's the Greatest Harm." Dr. Taylor found, via tax records, that over 98% of Melaleuca agents pay more for their operations in a given year than they earn in net income. Do I not have a right, as a consumer and as someone concerned with employment rights, to be concerned about a company wherein such a huge majority of the salespeople lose money?

Granted, this is my sole source of info on Melaleuca agent incomes, and statistics don't always actually say what people with agendas would like them to say. For example, this figure may assume that any consumer of Melaleuca products is also a distributor, in which case you would expect that the majority of the cases studied yielded negative results.

I hope that this admission shows how much I do value research and facts, and it is this very value that makes me extremely skeptical of a company that markets alternative health products via MLM, CDM, network marketing, person to person sales, matrix marketing or whatever you would like to call it (they are all fundamentally the same thing).

This is from an article in the New England Journal of Medicine:

"What most sets alternative medicine apart . . . is that it has not been scientifically tested and its advocates largely deny the need for such testing. By testing, we mean the marshaling of rigorous evidence of safety and efficacy, as required by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for the approval of drugs and by the best peer-reviewed medical journals for the publication of research reports. Of course, many treatments used in conventional medicine have not been rigorously tested, either, but the scientific community generally acknowledges that this is a failing that needs to be remedied. Many advocates of alternative medicine, in contrast, believe the scientific method is simply not applicable to their remedies. . . .

Alternative medicine also distinguishes itself by an ideology that largely ignores biologic mechanisms, often disparage modern science, and relies on what are purported to be ancient practices and natural remedies (which are seen as somehow being simultaneously more potent and less toxic than conventional medicine). Accordingly, herbs or mixtures of herbs are considered superior to the active compounds isolated in the laboratory. And healing methods such as homeopathy and therapeutic touch are fervently promoted despite not only the lack of good clinical evidence of effectiveness, but the presence of a rationale that violates fundamental scientific laws -- surely a circumstance that requires more, rather than less, evidence."

And here are some comments on MLM from Dr. Stephen Barrett, M.D., founder of MLM Watch and Quack Watch:

"Every company I have looked at has made false or deceptive claims in its promotional materials. The products that have nutritional value (such as multivitamins and low-cholesterol foods) are invariably overpriced and usually not needed. The products promoted as remedies are either bogus, unproven, or intended for conditions that are unsuitable for self-medication. In addition, none of them give a really clear picture of how difficult it is to earn money selling health-related MLM products. Person-to-person sales involves more overhead than ordinary retail selling, so that products are generally costly. Most supplement companies get their raw ingredients from the same bulk wholesalers and merely repackage them into brand-name products. To complete with retail outlets, MLM distributors must persuade prospective customers that their product is superior, even though it is not and may even be identical to competing products that cost less. This requires misrepresentation. Moreover, people who like MLM products are likely to become distributors, which means that the original seller will no longer profit from retail sales to those customers.

People who don't join during the first few months of operation or become one of the early distributors in their community are unlikely to build enough of a sales pyramid to do well. Fewer than 1% of new distributors earn significant income; and many who stock up on products to meet sales goals get stuck with unsold products that cost thousands of dollars. This strategy -- referred to as "front-end loading" -- is promoted with claims that it will push the new distributor to higher bonus and/or leadership levels quickly. In July 1999, the National Association of Attorneys General announced that complaints about multilevel marketing and pyramid schemes were tenth on their list of consumer complaints.

MLM can also cause social harm. Many "believers" pester everyone they know to buy their products or become a distributor. In many cases, this pressure strains or terminates friendships."

These two comments eloquently sum up my opinions per alternative medicine and MLM (or its variations). Alternative health products are only "alternative" because they have not met the standards to be accpeted by the mainstream health community. MLM has proven itself, over the past few decades, to be a business system that exploits people.

Bear in mind, however, that these are generalities. The above reasons are why I am very skeptical about the claims made by Melaleuca and its agents, and why I personally would never get involved with the company on a consumer or agent level.

There's no need to include in your response "you admit you know nothing about Melaleuca, yet you...," yes, I do admit that. I also don't know anything about the dope dealer down the street, but I do know about the system he is a part of, and although he may be a great guy and his crack may be of the highest quality, I would still warn my friends to stay away from him.

With the utmost of respect to all of you, thank you for continuing this debate in an informed and civil manner. Have a good day!

Cheryl, just to note, if you look a ways up on this collection of posts (I know the editor hates when you call them "threads") I acknowledged that I knew little of what Maleleuca was all about and asserted that, because of this, I really have no valid complaints about this specific company. I also noted that, in recognizing that the majority of respndents to this report are supporters, that I may be entirely wrong in my preconceptions.

Yes, I have invested a great deal of time studying the areas of sociology, psychology, business and the law, and I feel that my knowledge base on these pertinent subjects gives me a degree of liscence to comment at least on generalities. And you are absolutely correct, I have no right to comment on a specific company that I have not adequately researched.

My interest in Melaleuca was spurned by a study done by Jon Taylor, PhD, of the Consumer Awareness Institute, entitled "Where's the Greatest Harm." Dr. Taylor found, via tax records, that over 98% of Melaleuca agents pay more for their operations in a given year than they earn in net income. Do I not have a right, as a consumer and as someone concerned with employment rights, to be concerned about a company wherein such a huge majority of the salespeople lose money?

Granted, this is my sole source of info on Melaleuca agent incomes, and statistics don't always actually say what people with agendas would like them to say. For example, this figure may assume that any consumer of Melaleuca products is also a distributor, in which case you would expect that the majority of the cases studied yielded negative results.

I hope that this admission shows how much I do value research and facts, and it is this very value that makes me extremely skeptical of a company that markets alternative health products via MLM, CDM, network marketing, person to person sales, matrix marketing or whatever you would like to call it (they are all fundamentally the same thing).

This is from an article in the New England Journal of Medicine:

"What most sets alternative medicine apart . . . is that it has not been scientifically tested and its advocates largely deny the need for such testing. By testing, we mean the marshaling of rigorous evidence of safety and efficacy, as required by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for the approval of drugs and by the best peer-reviewed medical journals for the publication of research reports. Of course, many treatments used in conventional medicine have not been rigorously tested, either, but the scientific community generally acknowledges that this is a failing that needs to be remedied. Many advocates of alternative medicine, in contrast, believe the scientific method is simply not applicable to their remedies. . . .

Alternative medicine also distinguishes itself by an ideology that largely ignores biologic mechanisms, often disparage modern science, and relies on what are purported to be ancient practices and natural remedies (which are seen as somehow being simultaneously more potent and less toxic than conventional medicine). Accordingly, herbs or mixtures of herbs are considered superior to the active compounds isolated in the laboratory. And healing methods such as homeopathy and therapeutic touch are fervently promoted despite not only the lack of good clinical evidence of effectiveness, but the presence of a rationale that violates fundamental scientific laws -- surely a circumstance that requires more, rather than less, evidence."

And here are some comments on MLM from Dr. Stephen Barrett, M.D., founder of MLM Watch and Quack Watch:

"Every company I have looked at has made false or deceptive claims in its promotional materials. The products that have nutritional value (such as multivitamins and low-cholesterol foods) are invariably overpriced and usually not needed. The products promoted as remedies are either bogus, unproven, or intended for conditions that are unsuitable for self-medication. In addition, none of them give a really clear picture of how difficult it is to earn money selling health-related MLM products. Person-to-person sales involves more overhead than ordinary retail selling, so that products are generally costly. Most supplement companies get their raw ingredients from the same bulk wholesalers and merely repackage them into brand-name products. To complete with retail outlets, MLM distributors must persuade prospective customers that their product is superior, even though it is not and may even be identical to competing products that cost less. This requires misrepresentation. Moreover, people who like MLM products are likely to become distributors, which means that the original seller will no longer profit from retail sales to those customers.

People who don't join during the first few months of operation or become one of the early distributors in their community are unlikely to build enough of a sales pyramid to do well. Fewer than 1% of new distributors earn significant income; and many who stock up on products to meet sales goals get stuck with unsold products that cost thousands of dollars. This strategy -- referred to as "front-end loading" -- is promoted with claims that it will push the new distributor to higher bonus and/or leadership levels quickly. In July 1999, the National Association of Attorneys General announced that complaints about multilevel marketing and pyramid schemes were tenth on their list of consumer complaints.

MLM can also cause social harm. Many "believers" pester everyone they know to buy their products or become a distributor. In many cases, this pressure strains or terminates friendships."

These two comments eloquently sum up my opinions per alternative medicine and MLM (or its variations). Alternative health products are only "alternative" because they have not met the standards to be accpeted by the mainstream health community. MLM has proven itself, over the past few decades, to be a business system that exploits people.

Bear in mind, however, that these are generalities. The above reasons are why I am very skeptical about the claims made by Melaleuca and its agents, and why I personally would never get involved with the company on a consumer or agent level.

There's no need to include in your response "you admit you know nothing about Melaleuca, yet you...," yes, I do admit that. I also don't know anything about the dope dealer down the street, but I do know about the system he is a part of, and although he may be a great guy and his crack may be of the highest quality, I would still warn my friends to stay away from him.

With the utmost of respect to all of you, thank you for continuing this debate in an informed and civil manner. Have a good day!

Cheryl, just to note, if you look a ways up on this collection of posts (I know the editor hates when you call them "threads") I acknowledged that I knew little of what Maleleuca was all about and asserted that, because of this, I really have no valid complaints about this specific company. I also noted that, in recognizing that the majority of respndents to this report are supporters, that I may be entirely wrong in my preconceptions.

Yes, I have invested a great deal of time studying the areas of sociology, psychology, business and the law, and I feel that my knowledge base on these pertinent subjects gives me a degree of liscence to comment at least on generalities. And you are absolutely correct, I have no right to comment on a specific company that I have not adequately researched.

My interest in Melaleuca was spurned by a study done by Jon Taylor, PhD, of the Consumer Awareness Institute, entitled "Where's the Greatest Harm." Dr. Taylor found, via tax records, that over 98% of Melaleuca agents pay more for their operations in a given year than they earn in net income. Do I not have a right, as a consumer and as someone concerned with employment rights, to be concerned about a company wherein such a huge majority of the salespeople lose money?

Granted, this is my sole source of info on Melaleuca agent incomes, and statistics don't always actually say what people with agendas would like them to say. For example, this figure may assume that any consumer of Melaleuca products is also a distributor, in which case you would expect that the majority of the cases studied yielded negative results.

I hope that this admission shows how much I do value research and facts, and it is this very value that makes me extremely skeptical of a company that markets alternative health products via MLM, CDM, network marketing, person to person sales, matrix marketing or whatever you would like to call it (they are all fundamentally the same thing).

This is from an article in the New England Journal of Medicine:

"What most sets alternative medicine apart . . . is that it has not been scientifically tested and its advocates largely deny the need for such testing. By testing, we mean the marshaling of rigorous evidence of safety and efficacy, as required by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for the approval of drugs and by the best peer-reviewed medical journals for the publication of research reports. Of course, many treatments used in conventional medicine have not been rigorously tested, either, but the scientific community generally acknowledges that this is a failing that needs to be remedied. Many advocates of alternative medicine, in contrast, believe the scientific method is simply not applicable to their remedies. . . .

Alternative medicine also distinguishes itself by an ideology that largely ignores biologic mechanisms, often disparage modern science, and relies on what are purported to be ancient practices and natural remedies (which are seen as somehow being simultaneously more potent and less toxic than conventional medicine). Accordingly, herbs or mixtures of herbs are considered superior to the active compounds isolated in the laboratory. And healing methods such as homeopathy and therapeutic touch are fervently promoted despite not only the lack of good clinical evidence of effectiveness, but the presence of a rationale that violates fundamental scientific laws -- surely a circumstance that requires more, rather than less, evidence."

And here are some comments on MLM from Dr. Stephen Barrett, M.D., founder of MLM Watch and Quack Watch:

"Every company I have looked at has made false or deceptive claims in its promotional materials. The products that have nutritional value (such as multivitamins and low-cholesterol foods) are invariably overpriced and usually not needed. The products promoted as remedies are either bogus, unproven, or intended for conditions that are unsuitable for self-medication. In addition, none of them give a really clear picture of how difficult it is to earn money selling health-related MLM products. Person-to-person sales involves more overhead than ordinary retail selling, so that products are generally costly. Most supplement companies get their raw ingredients from the same bulk wholesalers and merely repackage them into brand-name products. To complete with retail outlets, MLM distributors must persuade prospective customers that their product is superior, even though it is not and may even be identical to competing products that cost less. This requires misrepresentation. Moreover, people who like MLM products are likely to become distributors, which means that the original seller will no longer profit from retail sales to those customers.

People who don't join during the first few months of operation or become one of the early distributors in their community are unlikely to build enough of a sales pyramid to do well. Fewer than 1% of new distributors earn significant income; and many who stock up on products to meet sales goals get stuck with unsold products that cost thousands of dollars. This strategy -- referred to as "front-end loading" -- is promoted with claims that it will push the new distributor to higher bonus and/or leadership levels quickly. In July 1999, the National Association of Attorneys General announced that complaints about multilevel marketing and pyramid schemes were tenth on their list of consumer complaints.

MLM can also cause social harm. Many "believers" pester everyone they know to buy their products or become a distributor. In many cases, this pressure strains or terminates friendships."

These two comments eloquently sum up my opinions per alternative medicine and MLM (or its variations). Alternative health products are only "alternative" because they have not met the standards to be accpeted by the mainstream health community. MLM has proven itself, over the past few decades, to be a business system that exploits people.

Bear in mind, however, that these are generalities. The above reasons are why I am very skeptical about the claims made by Melaleuca and its agents, and why I personally would never get involved with the company on a consumer or agent level.

There's no need to include in your response "you admit you know nothing about Melaleuca, yet you...," yes, I do admit that. I also don't know anything about the dope dealer down the street, but I do know about the system he is a part of, and although he may be a great guy and his crack may be of the highest quality, I would still warn my friends to stay away from him.

With the utmost of respect to all of you, thank you for continuing this debate in an informed and civil manner. Have a good day!

Cheryl, just to note, if you look a ways up on this collection of posts (I know the editor hates when you call them "threads") I acknowledged that I knew little of what Maleleuca was all about and asserted that, because of this, I really have no valid complaints about this specific company. I also noted that, in recognizing that the majority of respndents to this report are supporters, that I may be entirely wrong in my preconceptions.

Yes, I have invested a great deal of time studying the areas of sociology, psychology, business and the law, and I feel that my knowledge base on these pertinent subjects gives me a degree of liscence to comment at least on generalities. And you are absolutely correct, I have no right to comment on a specific company that I have not adequately researched.

My interest in Melaleuca was spurned by a study done by Jon Taylor, PhD, of the Consumer Awareness Institute, entitled "Where's the Greatest Harm." Dr. Taylor found, via tax records, that over 98% of Melaleuca agents pay more for their operations in a given year than they earn in net income. Do I not have a right, as a consumer and as someone concerned with employment rights, to be concerned about a company wherein such a huge majority of the salespeople lose money?

Granted, this is my sole source of info on Melaleuca agent incomes, and statistics don't always actually say what people with agendas would like them to say. For example, this figure may assume that any consumer of Melaleuca products is also a distributor, in which case you would expect that the majority of the cases studied yielded negative results.

I hope that this admission shows how much I do value research and facts, and it is this very value that makes me extremely skeptical of a company that markets alternative health products via MLM, CDM, network marketing, person to person sales, matrix marketing or whatever you would like to call it (they are all fundamentally the same thing).

This is from an article in the New England Journal of Medicine:

"What most sets alternative medicine apart . . . is that it has not been scientifically tested and its advocates largely deny the need for such testing. By testing, we mean the marshaling of rigorous evidence of safety and efficacy, as required by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for the approval of drugs and by the best peer-reviewed medical journals for the publication of research reports. Of course, many treatments used in conventional medicine have not been rigorously tested, either, but the scientific community generally acknowledges that this is a failing that needs to be remedied. Many advocates of alternative medicine, in contrast, believe the scientific method is simply not applicable to their remedies. . . .

Alternative medicine also distinguishes itself by an ideology that largely ignores biologic mechanisms, often disparage modern science, and relies on what are purported to be ancient practices and natural remedies (which are seen as somehow being simultaneously more potent and less toxic than conventional medicine). Accordingly, herbs or mixtures of herbs are considered superior to the active compounds isolated in the laboratory. And healing methods such as homeopathy and therapeutic touch are fervently promoted despite not only the lack of good clinical evidence of effectiveness, but the presence of a rationale that violates fundamental scientific laws -- surely a circumstance that requires more, rather than less, evidence."

And here are some comments on MLM from Dr. Stephen Barrett, M.D., founder of MLM Watch and Quack Watch:

"Every company I have looked at has made false or deceptive claims in its promotional materials. The products that have nutritional value (such as multivitamins and low-cholesterol foods) are invariably overpriced and usually not needed. The products promoted as remedies are either bogus, unproven, or intended for conditions that are unsuitable for self-medication. In addition, none of them give a really clear picture of how difficult it is to earn money selling health-related MLM products. Person-to-person sales involves more overhead than ordinary retail selling, so that products are generally costly. Most supplement companies get their raw ingredients from the same bulk wholesalers and merely repackage them into brand-name products. To complete with retail outlets, MLM distributors must persuade prospective customers that their product is superior, even though it is not and may even be identical to competing products that cost less. This requires misrepresentation. Moreover, people who like MLM products are likely to become distributors, which means that the original seller will no longer profit from retail sales to those customers.

People who don't join during the first few months of operation or become one of the early distributors in their community are unlikely to build enough of a sales pyramid to do well. Fewer than 1% of new distributors earn significant income; and many who stock up on products to meet sales goals get stuck with unsold products that cost thousands of dollars. This strategy -- referred to as "front-end loading" -- is promoted with claims that it will push the new distributor to higher bonus and/or leadership levels quickly. In July 1999, the National Association of Attorneys General announced that complaints about multilevel marketing and pyramid schemes were tenth on their list of consumer complaints.

MLM can also cause social harm. Many "believers" pester everyone they know to buy their products or become a distributor. In many cases, this pressure strains or terminates friendships."

These two comments eloquently sum up my opinions per alternative medicine and MLM (or its variations). Alternative health products are only "alternative" because they have not met the standards to be accpeted by the mainstream health community. MLM has proven itself, over the past few decades, to be a business system that exploits people.

Bear in mind, however, that these are generalities. The above reasons are why I am very skeptical about the claims made by Melaleuca and its agents, and why I personally would never get involved with the company on a consumer or agent level.

There's no need to include in your response "you admit you know nothing about Melaleuca, yet you...," yes, I do admit that. I also don't know anything about the dope dealer down the street, but I do know about the system he is a part of, and although he may be a great guy and his crack may be of the highest quality, I would still warn my friends to stay away from him.

With the utmost of respect to all of you, thank you for continuing this debate in an informed and civil manner. Have a good day!

Dear Ed, Tracy, JJ, Tim & Cheryl, and anyone else that I have not mentioned.

My goodness all of this just because one person had an unfortunate experience with a company. I have been in the service industry more years than I care to mention, and one thing that I have learned is that no matter how wonderful your products are and how outstanding your level of service is, you will always have that one person were everything that could have gone wrong did go wrong.

Tracy, I am really sorry that you had such a horrible experience with a company that I have enjoyed doing business with. It sounded like all that could have happened to you in this situation did. My only suggestion to you in the future of any business dealings, is get a name of one person and stick with them. That way you don't have to start over and over and over when you follow up on the progress of your solution. It also holds that person accountable for the information they are giving you. It works wonders!

J.J. your comments to this poor lady were completely out of line. You were arrogant, condescending and just down right nasty. For what reason? Just to be ugly? Fortunately you are not the norm for Meleluca. She had a bad experience end of story. She was not well informed by the person that signed her up and she had a reaction to the meleluca oil in the products. That happened before with one of my customers. People have allergies to stuff! What may be good for 100 may not be for one. Get some heart.

Tim, for an educated guy you should know better then to speak about something that you have not done your research on or have had no experience with. I can only guess that because you have a higher level of education that you may think that you know more then you really do, and that your comments are more emotionally driven because of your personal experiences with other companies.

Meleluca is not a MLM. I have been in MLMs before and this is not a MLM. The products are of good quality; I use them all the time. Their prices are comparable, and in many cases less expensive than their counterparts in the stores. There are some store products that I prefer more, and then there are the Meleluca products that I would not trade out for all the money in the world because they are that good. I have never had a problem with this company. They have made errors on my orders before and Customer Service rectified them in a very expedient manner. I am now a customer only and will be for a very long time. Oh, by the way I still get a check every month just for being a customer.

Remember what Cheryl said, no company is perfect, errors and non-follow through happens. It doesn't mean it is a bad company, it only means that humanbeings are there. I can wager money on the fact that you also make errors at work, no matter what level of education may have acquired.

Meleluca is a good, fair and honest company. Remeber that the person signing you up may not be or they may be new and not really that informed either. They are not one in the same. These people are not employees, they do not get paid a salary or get company benefits. Make sure that you go to their Web Site and check out the company yourself and then draw your own conclusion, not one that someone painted for you.

Better luck in the future Tracy.

I came across this and had to give my comments.
Thanks for listening.

I am a Melaleuca customer, and I think that a few of you are going a little overboard.

I have been reading your comments back and forth to one another and there was a point that I even forgot what the whole point of this website was! Instead of bickering back and forth I think that you should use your energy to do what you can to make the world a better place.

There is so much hostility in the world today; please stop adding to it.

I am a Melaleuca customer, and I think that a few of you are going a little overboard.

I have been reading your comments back and forth to one another and there was a point that I even forgot what the whole point of this website was! Instead of bickering back and forth I think that you should use your energy to do what you can to make the world a better place.

There is so much hostility in the world today; please stop adding to it.

I am a Melaleuca customer, and I think that a few of you are going a little overboard.

I have been reading your comments back and forth to one another and there was a point that I even forgot what the whole point of this website was! Instead of bickering back and forth I think that you should use your energy to do what you can to make the world a better place.

There is so much hostility in the world today; please stop adding to it.

Response to your following questions:

Does Melaleuca attempt to make people believe that they can achieve financial success by selling their products? how exactly does one turn a profit from Melaleuca distribution or referrals? ..how do the distribution, recruiting and compensation systems work?



With our organization, we do not attempt to make people believe they can achieve financial success with Melaleuca. Instead, we focus our attention solely on the products. We focus on trying to get customers that will switch stores and buy the similar products they used to get from K-Mart from Melaleuca. We also do demonstrations of our product against other common products that prove our claim is true. We in turn tell everyone to try the products since it is risk free and if at anytime they don't like the products, send it back, and cancel if necessary. We have no desire to lose friends or family ties as a result of this business. We also share product success stories. I used to get sick with nausea and headaches from using Tilex and it didn't work great either. I now us Tub & Tile and get no side affects. I was a loyal Tide user, but switched to Mela-Power. I did realize that this must also be used with Mela Brite to be as affective as Tide with Bleach. I don't get skin irritations from the products I clean with anymore. My family has seen positive improvements from ProvexCV. Anything from allergies to high blood pressure to diabetes to asthma has improved along with more energy from the vitamins and supplements. I have noticed whiter teeth from the tooth paste and there are many other improvements within our organization that even doctors have substantiated and are now referring patients to use. We don't tell anyone to stop using current medications, but with the success from Melaleuca's products, their doctors have reduced and in some cases eliminated their medications. I have seen children with allergies get improvements. I have seen skin conditions on babies clear up. Basically, I can only go by what I have experianced and witnessed first hand.



Melaleuca isn't for everyone. Some folks don't realize that they should switch stores. If you do this, you don't spend more money than you were already spending. You just spend the same money at a different store. Some folks don't realize the products cost more, but they are concentrated, so you must compare use to use. Example is that one bottle of Clear Power makes 2 equivalent bottles of Windex.



You make money by referring customers to the products. These customers enroll. Only 10 - 20% of these people will want to do this as business. The others just remain customers because they like the product. The one thing I love, and I have been with other MLMs, is that the folks that enrolled me can not succeed without helping me succeed. We are a team that helps each other. This is not one person at the top helping only themselves. We have Executive Directors still helping Marketing Executives. We even place others within the organizations of Marketing Execs that are really trying to build their business. The compensation plan is straight forward. You must become knowledgable with the material provided to you. There are no secret ways to build. If you continue to introduce this to folks you know, you can't help but grow your business. As far as claims that say you spend more than you make, not true. In no month since enrolling, have I spent more than I brought in. We don't buy additional business tools until we have received a check big enough to cover the expenses. We have grown each month, but have also put forth effort each month.



Hope this helps. Just remember, focus on the products and learn the products. You must use them to have success stories and a belief system of your own. Melaleuca gives you 60 days only because they are confident. They give you enough time to use the products and make an informative decision. I know of no other store that I can return an empty bottle to. They give you 120 days to build a business and cancel if it doesn't work out and get your $29 back. I gave another MLM $500 and couldn't get anything back after a 48 -72 hour period and it took forever to just break even and I had no products to show for my money that was spent.



GOOD LUCK

Cheryl and JJ... I'd like to extewnd somewhat of a truce on this topic because I am starting to question the information that I have been relying on regarding Melaleuca. I have been led to believe that Mel. is an MLM in the purest sense... meaning that they lure people in with the promises of great wealth and self-employment, only to scam these poor victims one way or another.



From what I have read from consumers on here it seems that Mel. is not in fact decieving people into thinking they can make a living off selling Mel. products, but rather offering them substantial discounts on their own purchases by referring other customers.



To be honest, I really have no concrete evidence to say that Mel. products are worthless, excepting generalized research which shows that alternative medicines usually are, and that products distributed through MLMs usually are as well.



Maybe you guys, or anyone else, can answer a few questions for me... Does Melaleuca attempt to make people believe that they can achieve financial success by selling their products? how exactly does one turn a profit from Melaleuca distribution or referrals? ..how do the distribution, recruiting and compensation systems work? Maybe you guys can change my opinion on this aspect of your company.

Say Tim,



Why don't you look in the mirror.



Have a conversation with thy self.



Admit it, you are a sore loser here, and as such, believe that "99%" of us Mela Preferred Customers are losers too.



21 months ago I put up $29.US and switched stores.



Started to talk about the awesome products and so far, I have received 21 checks. SInce my first month, my own products have been paying for themselves.



Where do you shop? WalGreen's? CostCo? Price Club? Sam's Club? BJ's?



Wherever you shop, how much was the last "thank you check" that you received from your favorite retailer for being a loyal customer there?



I do not have to renew my Mela membership every year for $35-$45. You do.



I get paid to shop at my "store." It's a beautiful thing...



JJ.

NYC

PS. Are you paying AOL $23.90 a month?

I'm supposed to pay iGlide.net $13.95 a month, but because I have referred ONE customer a month to iGlide for the past 10 months, I have gotten 10 months of free, unlimited, premium quality internet service. Again, it's a beautiful thing...

(Thank you for correcting my mispellings, english is not my native language)

I can't believe that one complaint can lead to worsening reactions from others. I read most of what's been written so far...



I think there is really no perfect company, whether it be a big or small one. Every company is represented by different individuals who possess various attitudes, work ethics, competency, knowledge, life experiences, and personality (what else could differentiate one person from another?)... Although the company owners/management try as much as possible to find honest, pleasant, and hardworking persons to work/represent them, it is too impossible to get 100% almost-perfect employees.



To Tracy, I'm sorry to hear that your acquaintance who introduced Melaleuca to you wasn't able to help you. I won't judge her or you. For whatever (forgivable/acceptable) reasons,however, neither of you took a chance to re-think your respective situations and see how else the problem could have been resolved... If it wasn't working one way, there could've been another method. (I might have looked for Melaleuca's main contact information and dealt with them directly.)



And if one customer service representative or agent can't help you at one particular instance, I suggest try looking for another person (if making calls, re-dial the number and you'll get another person on the phone). It might be a better experience the second or third time around. (Unfortunately, nowadays, because automated telephone messages are becoming more and more popular and used these days, it is indeed fustrating to have to repeat the call)



Every employee/person is different - I couldn't judge a company based on one bad experience or one bad employee alone. With almost any company you come accross with, there will always be at least some dissatisfied customers.

I can't believe that one complaint can lead to worsening reactions from others. I read most of what's been written so far...



I think there is really no perfect company, whether it be a big or small one. Every company is represented by different individuals who possess various attitudes, work ethics, competency, knowledge, life experiences, and personality (what else could differentiate one person from another?)... Although the company owners/management try as much as possible to find honest, pleasant, and hardworking persons to work/represent them, it is too impossible to get 100% almost-perfect employees.



To Tracy, I'm sorry to hear that your acquaintance who introduced Melaleuca to you wasn't able to help you. I won't judge her or you. For whatever (forgivable/acceptable) reasons,however, neither of you took a chance to re-think your respective situations and see how else the problem could have been resolved... If it wasn't working one way, there could've been another method. (I might have looked for Melaleuca's main contact information and dealt with them directly.)



And if one customer service representative or agent can't help you at one particular instance, I suggest try looking for another person (if making calls, re-dial the number and you'll get another person on the phone). It might be a better experience the second or third time around. (Unfortunately, nowadays, because automated telephone messages are becoming more and more popular and used these days, it is indeed fustrating to have to repeat the call)



Every employee/person is different - I couldn't judge a company based on one bad experience or one bad employee alone. With almost any company you come accross with, there will always be at least some dissatisfied customers.

I can't believe that one complaint can lead to worsening reactions from others. I read most of what's been written so far...



I think there is really no perfect company, whether it be a big or small one. Every company is represented by different individuals who possess various attitudes, work ethics, competency, knowledge, life experiences, and personality (what else could differentiate one person from another?)... Although the company owners/management try as much as possible to find honest, pleasant, and hardworking persons to work/represent them, it is too impossible to get 100% almost-perfect employees.



To Tracy, I'm sorry to hear that your acquaintance who introduced Melaleuca to you wasn't able to help you. I won't judge her or you. For whatever (forgivable/acceptable) reasons,however, neither of you took a chance to re-think your respective situations and see how else the problem could have been resolved... If it wasn't working one way, there could've been another method. (I might have looked for Melaleuca's main contact information and dealt with them directly.)



And if one customer service representative or agent can't help you at one particular instance, I suggest try looking for another person (if making calls, re-dial the number and you'll get another person on the phone). It might be a better experience the second or third time around. (Unfortunately, nowadays, because automated telephone messages are becoming more and more popular and used these days, it is indeed fustrating to have to repeat the call)



Every employee/person is different - I couldn't judge a company based on one bad experience or one bad employee alone. With almost any company you come accross with, there will always be at least some dissatisfied customers.

Well Tim I have never lost any money! I buy shampoo and toothpaste anyhow. I think the products are a better quality and don't have harmful additives. And the bonus being that I get a check every month that completely covers my purchase and a little left over. So I never really worked that hard to get that so I can't see how you can fail or be out money! You either buy them from melaleuca or a drug store.

Am I closed minded because I think that a company wherein over 99% of the time employees lose money is doing something unethical? Or am I closed minded because I think that the research surrounding a product is a more valuable source of information than salesperson rhetoric? And yes, I guess my failure in network marketing could be attributed to my "inaptitude." I'm sure you meant to say "ineptitude," but you inadvertently made a pretty good point in your mispelling. "Inaptitude" is a lack of interest or natural tendency to excel in a certain field, decent employers look for "aptitude" when hiring because they want their employees to do the job well and be successful. That is not how MLMs operate. MLMs make their money off the people who fail. Per my "ineptitude," Its too bad that I wasn't competent enough to sell someone a shoddy overpriced product with nothing more than rhetoric to back up its claims, but in that regard I am in the over 99% of people who fail at MLMs (or CDMs, they're the same thing). We are never going to convince one another of our points of view in this hostile format, we've all had our last words, let's put this argument to rest.

Say Cheryl, don't waste your valuable time trying to educate poor Tim about CDM or Consumer Direct Marketing.



He tried an MLM deal and failed.



Then he joined CDM and thought it would be an easy get-rich-quick scheme and became very disappointed. He will forever be angry at Melaleuca and Netwrok Marketing as a whole. He blames the systems, the companies and the individuals. But he doesn't blame his own inaptitude, 8 years of college and all.



It's a guaranteed waste of time if one keeps beating on a dead horse, as they say... You know the type.



We'll c ya on the BIG stage in Long Beach in August!



Telling the Story,



Ramirez

Have you seen the contract TIM??? HAVE YOU? And If you noticed I live in Canada and I am only talking about what Canadian regulations...I know nothing about American crap. I do know that the Canadian standard are strict and some of Mel products are not sold in Canada!until they get approval I never said they didn't have to disclose information I SAID THEY DID AND DO! READ!And for my degree! yes it is a LL.M GOOD FOR YOU!! AREN'T YOU SMART! And you can keep your MLM speech and give it to someone who cares and wants to hear you flap your gums. And if it should matter to clarify this to someone so close minded as yourself I am a lawyer at a large hospital...I have to say that I am done talking to a pathetic individual like your self I have better thinks to do. Just look at how many people have defended Mel in these posts..I guess that speaks for itself

What kind of contract doesn't have any fine print? And why is it even necessary in the first place to require a contract of someone who is making routine pharamaceutical purchases? It seems like if you were a lawyer that this would have been enough to prompt you to investigate what is going on with this company! You make a good point about how most supplements are not FDA approved, but what about the AMA? The AMA has sanctioned the products sold in major retail stores and pharmacies because they have been shown to be of value, most "alternative" supplements have not recieved this distinction because they have not been shown to be of any value to a person's health. So called "whitening toothpastes" have recieved the licensing to sell their products, but they are not approved by the ADA because they do not achieve the results that they claim. And which is it? Medical field or lawyer? I'm sure that after comleting years of legal education you know the importance of not contradicting yourself, so why in one instance do you claim that Melaleuca is not required to disclose their ingredients to their customers, and in another claim that they are? (The second is correct: any product being sold in the United States that either goes on or in the body must have an ingredient disclosure label.) In another instance, you claim that you are nothing more than a consumer, yet later you use your relationship with the organization to show that they are in fact educated people. I would not put myself in front of the firing line by claiming that the people in this organization are uneducated, because I know that this isn't true; I'm sure there are many well educated people selling these products. The target demographic, however, for MLM recruiters is not well educated people. Well educated people usually are able to see through the hype and realize their limited chances within an organization, maybe this is why you are only a consumer! If you are not, in fact, a master of law (LL.M.) then I would urge you to find out what degree most lawyers actually have if you want to pretend to be one.

What kind of contract doesn't have any fine print? And why is it even necessary in the first place to require a contract of someone who is making routine pharamaceutical purchases? It seems like if you were a lawyer that this would have been enough to prompt you to investigate what is going on with this company! You make a good point about how most supplements are not FDA approved, but what about the AMA? The AMA has sanctioned the products sold in major retail stores and pharmacies because they have been shown to be of value, most "alternative" supplements have not recieved this distinction because they have not been shown to be of any value to a person's health. So called "whitening toothpastes" have recieved the licensing to sell their products, but they are not approved by the ADA because they do not achieve the results that they claim. And which is it? Medical field or lawyer? I'm sure that after comleting years of legal education you know the importance of not contradicting yourself, so why in one instance do you claim that Melaleuca is not required to disclose their ingredients to their customers, and in another claim that they are? (The second is correct: any product being sold in the United States that either goes on or in the body must have an ingredient disclosure label.) In another instance, you claim that you are nothing more than a consumer, yet later you use your relationship with the organization to show that they are in fact educated people. I would not put myself in front of the firing line by claiming that the people in this organization are uneducated, because I know that this isn't true; I'm sure there are many well educated people selling these products. The target demographic, however, for MLM recruiters is not well educated people. Well educated people usually are able to see through the hype and realize their limited chances within an organization, maybe this is why you are only a consumer! If you are not, in fact, a master of law (LL.M.) then I would urge you to find out what degree most lawyers actually have if you want to pretend to be one.

What kind of contract doesn't have any fine print? And why is it even necessary in the first place to require a contract of someone who is making routine pharamaceutical purchases? It seems like if you were a lawyer that this would have been enough to prompt you to investigate what is going on with this company! You make a good point about how most supplements are not FDA approved, but what about the AMA? The AMA has sanctioned the products sold in major retail stores and pharmacies because they have been shown to be of value, most "alternative" supplements have not recieved this distinction because they have not been shown to be of any value to a person's health. So called "whitening toothpastes" have recieved the licensing to sell their products, but they are not approved by the ADA because they do not achieve the results that they claim. And which is it? Medical field or lawyer? I'm sure that after comleting years of legal education you know the importance of not contradicting yourself, so why in one instance do you claim that Melaleuca is not required to disclose their ingredients to their customers, and in another claim that they are? (The second is correct: any product being sold in the United States that either goes on or in the body must have an ingredient disclosure label.) In another instance, you claim that you are nothing more than a consumer, yet later you use your relationship with the organization to show that they are in fact educated people. I would not put myself in front of the firing line by claiming that the people in this organization are uneducated, because I know that this isn't true; I'm sure there are many well educated people selling these products. The target demographic, however, for MLM recruiters is not well educated people. Well educated people usually are able to see through the hype and realize their limited chances within an organization, maybe this is why you are only a consumer! If you are not, in fact, a master of law (LL.M.) then I would urge you to find out what degree most lawyers actually have if you want to pretend to be one.

What kind of contract doesn't have any fine print? And why is it even necessary in the first place to require a contract of someone who is making routine pharamaceutical purchases? It seems like if you were a lawyer that this would have been enough to prompt you to investigate what is going on with this company! You make a good point about how most supplements are not FDA approved, but what about the AMA? The AMA has sanctioned the products sold in major retail stores and pharmacies because they have been shown to be of value, most "alternative" supplements have not recieved this distinction because they have not been shown to be of any value to a person's health. So called "whitening toothpastes" have recieved the licensing to sell their products, but they are not approved by the ADA because they do not achieve the results that they claim. And which is it? Medical field or lawyer? I'm sure that after comleting years of legal education you know the importance of not contradicting yourself, so why in one instance do you claim that Melaleuca is not required to disclose their ingredients to their customers, and in another claim that they are? (The second is correct: any product being sold in the United States that either goes on or in the body must have an ingredient disclosure label.) In another instance, you claim that you are nothing more than a consumer, yet later you use your relationship with the organization to show that they are in fact educated people. I would not put myself in front of the firing line by claiming that the people in this organization are uneducated, because I know that this isn't true; I'm sure there are many well educated people selling these products. The target demographic, however, for MLM recruiters is not well educated people. Well educated people usually are able to see through the hype and realize their limited chances within an organization, maybe this is why you are only a consumer! If you are not, in fact, a master of law (LL.M.) then I would urge you to find out what degree most lawyers actually have if you want to pretend to be one.

HEY TIM



Well I read what you had to say and I have a few comments. First off The company uses DIN numbers for there products...for those who do not know what this is exactually...I will explain it is a drug identification number...The classification that that pharmaceutical drugs get! You could look at any of your drug store vitamins and I guarantee that not one will have this..To someone like myself in the medical industry this is very important to me. They are required by law to test and label all ingredients in the products. So maybe it isn't FDA but very close! Second I have a copy of the contract in my hand and there is no fine print...the back up order section is half the page...so unless you do not read? Then there is nothing hidden. I have never had to use the back up order but it is there to maintain your membership just in case you forget...If you want to cancel your membership you can do that too very easy. Third if you are implying that people who are involved in this type of organization are uneducated then I have to correct you. I too have 8 years of education, masters in Law. So if I had any concerns with how it was run TRUST ME I WOULD HAVE LOOKED INTO IT!

You are correct, Cheryl, we should calm down. This isn't the appropriate venue for interpersonal bickering, but rather to provide constructive information on consumer issues. To that extent, my beef with melaleuca is that they represent two segments of our market which I think we can do without: "multi level marketing" (MLM) and "alternative health."



I often ask myself "alternative to what? decent, competent medicine?" it certainly isn't an alternative to high priced conventional medicine; usually these supplements, vitamins and food products cost more than their comparable AMA approved counterparts.



I haven't done my research enough to know, but I would assume that melaleuca's products are not sanctioned by the AMA, and probably not by the FDA either. Mountains of research over the past few decades have shown that natural/alternative medicines are usually much less effective than those which doctors reccomend, and their use in stead of conventional medications often has catastrophic outcomes.



MLMs, however, do far more damage to people's lives than bad medicine. Melaleuca falls right in line with the statistics surrounding MLMs gleened from a report published by the Consumer Awareness Institute.



The study culminating in this report found that in MLMs where a product purchase is required of employees (MLM reps will tell you that they are not employees and are in fact self employed, but this is not correct, they do not meet the criteria for self employment) an average of 99.9% of employees will LOSE money on the venture each year, with the remaining .01% representing the people who actually show a profit. This .01% makes the majority of their money not off of consumer sales, but off of the investments made by lower level reps.



The money spent on product and recruiting materials by low level reps in Melaleuca represents 85% of the company's revenue. Maleleuca claims that they are one of the better MLMs to work for, and unfortunately they are correct.



Amway reps, for instance, lose money in 99.96% of agent/years (although I shouldn't complain, because I am from the Grand Rapids area and our hospitals and entertainment venues are funded by Amway founders Jay Van Andel and d**k DeVos).



Many people leave gainful employment because they are convinced an MLM is the key to their success. MLMs use scare tactics to convince people that they cannot be succesful in life unless they sign on with the organization.



They claim that college education is worthless, and that all the knowledge you need is how to sell their products and recruit downlines. An MLM destroyed my financial life several years ago because I was naive enough to believe the hype.



Now that I have completed 8 years of university education, I have devoted much of my time and knowledge to help keep others from being screwed.



A final note: "back up orders" which the consumer is only notified of in small print, somwhere toward the bottom, is a scam. If a customer wanted to order more product, they would do so of their own volition.



Sending people products which they did not implicitly request is a method of moving a shoddy product on unsuspecting consumers. I would compare it to the practice of many websites to renew memberships without any implicit request to do so. Legally it's ok, but morally it's reprehensible.

You are correct, Cheryl, we should calm down. This isn't the appropriate venue for interpersonal bickering, but rather to provide constructive information on consumer issues. To that extent, my beef with melaleuca is that they represent two segments of our market which I think we can do without: "multi level marketing" (MLM) and "alternative health."



I often ask myself "alternative to what? decent, competent medicine?" it certainly isn't an alternative to high priced conventional medicine; usually these supplements, vitamins and food products cost more than their comparable AMA approved counterparts.



I haven't done my research enough to know, but I would assume that melaleuca's products are not sanctioned by the AMA, and probably not by the FDA either. Mountains of research over the past few decades have shown that natural/alternative medicines are usually much less effective than those which doctors reccomend, and their use in stead of conventional medications often has catastrophic outcomes.



MLMs, however, do far more damage to people's lives than bad medicine. Melaleuca falls right in line with the statistics surrounding MLMs gleened from a report published by the Consumer Awareness Institute.



The study culminating in this report found that in MLMs where a product purchase is required of employees (MLM reps will tell you that they are not employees and are in fact self employed, but this is not correct, they do not meet the criteria for self employment) an average of 99.9% of employees will LOSE money on the venture each year, with the remaining .01% representing the people who actually show a profit. This .01% makes the majority of their money not off of consumer sales, but off of the investments made by lower level reps.



The money spent on product and recruiting materials by low level reps in Melaleuca represents 85% of the company's revenue. Maleleuca claims that they are one of the better MLMs to work for, and unfortunately they are correct.



Amway reps, for instance, lose money in 99.96% of agent/years (although I shouldn't complain, because I am from the Grand Rapids area and our hospitals and entertainment venues are funded by Amway founders Jay Van Andel and d**k DeVos).



Many people leave gainful employment because they are convinced an MLM is the key to their success. MLMs use scare tactics to convince people that they cannot be succesful in life unless they sign on with the organization.



They claim that college education is worthless, and that all the knowledge you need is how to sell their products and recruit downlines. An MLM destroyed my financial life several years ago because I was naive enough to believe the hype.



Now that I have completed 8 years of university education, I have devoted much of my time and knowledge to help keep others from being screwed.



A final note: "back up orders" which the consumer is only notified of in small print, somwhere toward the bottom, is a scam. If a customer wanted to order more product, they would do so of their own volition.



Sending people products which they did not implicitly request is a method of moving a shoddy product on unsuspecting consumers. I would compare it to the practice of many websites to renew memberships without any implicit request to do so. Legally it's ok, but morally it's reprehensible.

You are correct, Cheryl, we should calm down. This isn't the appropriate venue for interpersonal bickering, but rather to provide constructive information on consumer issues. To that extent, my beef with melaleuca is that they represent two segments of our market which I think we can do without: "multi level marketing" (MLM) and "alternative health."



I often ask myself "alternative to what? decent, competent medicine?" it certainly isn't an alternative to high priced conventional medicine; usually these supplements, vitamins and food products cost more than their comparable AMA approved counterparts.



I haven't done my research enough to know, but I would assume that melaleuca's products are not sanctioned by the AMA, and probably not by the FDA either. Mountains of research over the past few decades have shown that natural/alternative medicines are usually much less effective than those which doctors reccomend, and their use in stead of conventional medications often has catastrophic outcomes.



MLMs, however, do far more damage to people's lives than bad medicine. Melaleuca falls right in line with the statistics surrounding MLMs gleened from a report published by the Consumer Awareness Institute.



The study culminating in this report found that in MLMs where a product purchase is required of employees (MLM reps will tell you that they are not employees and are in fact self employed, but this is not correct, they do not meet the criteria for self employment) an average of 99.9% of employees will LOSE money on the venture each year, with the remaining .01% representing the people who actually show a profit. This .01% makes the majority of their money not off of consumer sales, but off of the investments made by lower level reps.



The money spent on product and recruiting materials by low level reps in Melaleuca represents 85% of the company's revenue. Maleleuca claims that they are one of the better MLMs to work for, and unfortunately they are correct.



Amway reps, for instance, lose money in 99.96% of agent/years (although I shouldn't complain, because I am from the Grand Rapids area and our hospitals and entertainment venues are funded by Amway founders Jay Van Andel and d**k DeVos).



Many people leave gainful employment because they are convinced an MLM is the key to their success. MLMs use scare tactics to convince people that they cannot be succesful in life unless they sign on with the organization.



They claim that college education is worthless, and that all the knowledge you need is how to sell their products and recruit downlines. An MLM destroyed my financial life several years ago because I was naive enough to believe the hype.



Now that I have completed 8 years of university education, I have devoted much of my time and knowledge to help keep others from being screwed.



A final note: "back up orders" which the consumer is only notified of in small print, somwhere toward the bottom, is a scam. If a customer wanted to order more product, they would do so of their own volition.



Sending people products which they did not implicitly request is a method of moving a shoddy product on unsuspecting consumers. I would compare it to the practice of many websites to renew memberships without any implicit request to do so. Legally it's ok, but morally it's reprehensible.

You are correct, Cheryl, we should calm down. This isn't the appropriate venue for interpersonal bickering, but rather to provide constructive information on consumer issues. To that extent, my beef with melaleuca is that they represent two segments of our market which I think we can do without: "multi level marketing" (MLM) and "alternative health."



I often ask myself "alternative to what? decent, competent medicine?" it certainly isn't an alternative to high priced conventional medicine; usually these supplements, vitamins and food products cost more than their comparable AMA approved counterparts.



I haven't done my research enough to know, but I would assume that melaleuca's products are not sanctioned by the AMA, and probably not by the FDA either. Mountains of research over the past few decades have shown that natural/alternative medicines are usually much less effective than those which doctors reccomend, and their use in stead of conventional medications often has catastrophic outcomes.



MLMs, however, do far more damage to people's lives than bad medicine. Melaleuca falls right in line with the statistics surrounding MLMs gleened from a report published by the Consumer Awareness Institute.



The study culminating in this report found that in MLMs where a product purchase is required of employees (MLM reps will tell you that they are not employees and are in fact self employed, but this is not correct, they do not meet the criteria for self employment) an average of 99.9% of employees will LOSE money on the venture each year, with the remaining .01% representing the people who actually show a profit. This .01% makes the majority of their money not off of consumer sales, but off of the investments made by lower level reps.



The money spent on product and recruiting materials by low level reps in Melaleuca represents 85% of the company's revenue. Maleleuca claims that they are one of the better MLMs to work for, and unfortunately they are correct.



Amway reps, for instance, lose money in 99.96% of agent/years (although I shouldn't complain, because I am from the Grand Rapids area and our hospitals and entertainment venues are funded by Amway founders Jay Van Andel and d**k DeVos).



Many people leave gainful employment because they are convinced an MLM is the key to their success. MLMs use scare tactics to convince people that they cannot be succesful in life unless they sign on with the organization.



They claim that college education is worthless, and that all the knowledge you need is how to sell their products and recruit downlines. An MLM destroyed my financial life several years ago because I was naive enough to believe the hype.



Now that I have completed 8 years of university education, I have devoted much of my time and knowledge to help keep others from being screwed.



A final note: "back up orders" which the consumer is only notified of in small print, somwhere toward the bottom, is a scam. If a customer wanted to order more product, they would do so of their own volition.



Sending people products which they did not implicitly request is a method of moving a shoddy product on unsuspecting consumers. I would compare it to the practice of many websites to renew memberships without any implicit request to do so. Legally it's ok, but morally it's reprehensible.

Go to School and take "Following instructions 101"

________

*Thank you for your concern about my educational backround. To bad you didn't show this kind of concern about my health and reaction to the products Melaleuca sells.*





*I'm going to take a few minutes and respond to a few of the comments posted here as a rebuttal.*



If you don't like it, move to North Korea where they have communism.:



*Thanks anyways but I'll stay here in the USA and know i can voice my opinion and experiences freely.*

_______



You should have called the company directly and toll free 1-800-282-3000, given them your invoice number and they would have shipped the following morning to you, First Class, any items that were missing from your Value Pack.:



*As I stated in my original post: I returned the box to the same women since she had my shipping invoice that needed to be shipped with the box of product.



If she had the invoice how was I to have the number that was needed to give to Melaleuca for replacement products. If you had read my post you would have picked this up and known I had no paperwork when I brought my products home. *

______



What? Are you sure you weren't still using your expensive and harsh Amway leftovers?



Out of over 100 customers in my organization, NONE has ever made the horrendous health claims you make here. On the contrary



*Have never tried Amway. I simply reacted to some of the products that Melaleuca sells. After many attempts to use the products I finally decided enough was enough. I discovered it was the Melaleuca oil that was causing the breathing and skin problems. No idea what cause the other troubles? I wasn't willing to keep trying to narrow it down. I'm happy you have customer base that the products work for. *

______



I returned the box to the same women since she had my shipping invoice that needed to be shipped with the box of product.



For the third time, you should have dealt directly to Melaleuca Inc.



*I was instructed by Melaleuca (1-800-282-3000) to do the return this way since the rep that introduced me to the products had my invoice. I FOLLOWED INSTRUCTIONS !!!*

________



These women don't know how to do Melaleuca the Melaleuca way. We don't take product returns under CONSUMER DIRECT MARKETING. The company does.



*Company gave me the directions and I followed them. Being a new customer how was I to know what they were doing wasn't the correct way of dealing with the situation.*

________



I originally turned the box in on November 8 or 9. On November 26th when I still saw no return to my debit card I called the Company and was informed that they had no record of the return.



For the fourth time, you should have dealt directly with Melaleuca Inc



*At this point I am dealing with Melaleuca and following the directions given. Maybe you need a remedial reading class. *

______



You should have taken an Access Fat Conversion Bar and gone for a walk



*YUK!!!!! Nasty tasting things that made me violently ill. Thanks anyways.*

________



and just wanted my money back so I called the senior director



ay ay ay.... for the sixth time, you should have dealt with the company directly.





that returned the package and explained the events that had taken place. She then conference called melalueca to inquire about the many conflicting pieces of information I had been given. It was at this point I was told that my money was refunded and I just had to wait for it to show up.

* Should read *

and just wanted my money back so I called the senior director that returned the package and explained the events that had taken place. She then conference called melalueca to inquire about the many conflicting pieces of information I had been given. It was at this point I was told that my money was refunded and I just had to wait for it to show up



*To bad you can't keep the sentences together you have to piece them to make them fit your points.

As you can see I WAS IN CONTACT WITH MELALEUCA!!!!!!!!!!.*

_________



I hear you and agree with you 110%. But one must follow instructions sometimes.



*Followed all instructions given both written and verbal. To bad the Reps don't know what is going on. Great customer service training!!! *

________





I've been treated like dirt by Melaleuca in my 20-month experience.



*See you've been treated this way too. Do you like being abused???? Glutten for punishment???*

________



I should also note that after I cancelled my acct with them and requested a refund they went ahead and charged my card after I rescinded permission and mailed more crappy products to me.

The backup order. Had you dealt with Melaleuca Inc. directly from the beginning, they would have reminded you that you need to write a ONE LINE cancellation request, sign it in ink, and mail the original to them. This would have effectively ended your membership.



*I mailed the cancellation as directed (even signed it in INK) and products were mailed and charged after the cancellation was entered.*

________



"Crappy" products? You obviously never used the Melaleuca products following the instructions on the label.



*I can follow instructions and did and the products made me very ill. I even worked with Melaleuca to see if we could modify my usage so I could tolerate them.


You simply can not follow instructions. If I ever see you driving, I will pull over on the closest shoulder and let you pass. You sound like an threatening driver who gets ANGRY pretty fast and can not follow instructions.



*I guess I'm not sure what driving has to do with the product in question but if you want to sit on the shoulder and wait for me to pass... Wonderful. while your there eat one of the nasty fat conversion bars and enjoy your day.*





Tracy, unfortunately for you and everyone who reads your ANGRY testimonial, you are not qualified to talk about Melaleuca, good or bad. One or two months with the company and not even using their products following instructions does not make you a Melaleuca expert.



*I never claimed to be the expert you are. I just told my story as I lived it. I am qualified to do this and will continue to tell others what my feelings and experiences are about this company.

It doesn't take a expert to know when they are being treated poorly or that products are making them sick.

I'm glad the products work for you and many others. They don't work for me. It sounds like you and the other Melaleuca reps. are having a hard time dealing with the one product fits all failure.



I may have been new to the company and products but first impressions sell and the first impression here was not a good one. The 2nd, 3rd, 4th ect..... Were even worse. *



_________



*I'm sorry you felt a need to attack me personally for my opinions and fact concerning my experience with this company. I hope your feeling like a BIG person now. While I respect your thoughts and opinions on this I have once again been shown exactly what this company is all about. You tell me to take a class on following directions...?...

I'm thinking you should read carefully before typing*

____________



A BIG THANK YOU TO THOSE WHO SUPPORTED ME !!!



Tracy

Southern, Minnesota

In my above post I kept calling the gentleman I was directing my comments at "Brian" (I really don't know where I came up with that). Should've been JJ... I apologize!

Well I am not defending any one person here I am just writing about my personal experience. I have been a customer of meleluca for over a year. I just use the products but I am not involved with the marketing or the business side. And I have to say...It was made very clear to me to order my product from the company and to call them if I had any problems. Now I have had a few errors happen but they have corrected them ASAP. The Marketing executives do not take orders for individuals they simple sell a membership to customers who want to buy the products direct from meleluca. And If you where to read through the contract that you signed you would have noticed the back order clause. It really bothers me that there is individuals out there that always find the negative in everything. I think some people sign up with the hopes of making money. And when that doesn't happen right away they blame the company NOT THEMSELVES! But to make money you need to make an effort. It is like any other job out there. I also believe that people need to take ownership. And as for the medical problem you faced...There is not way that they could be directly linked to the products. There is significant testing involved to ensure customer safety. If some research were done into the product you would find that they are of the highest quality. Product that people use from day to day (I.e. hand soap, laundry detergent and household cleaners) Are full of chemicals that do not have to be disclosed...Meleluca informs customers of all ingredients that are in the products! That is what makes the company different. And there are people out there that demand that quality. Don't get me wrong I am not saying that they are the cure for cancer, But I have found they have made a difference in my like and alot of people agree. I am sorry that you had a misfortunate problem with your Marketing executive and with the company. I just have never experienced a rude person in the company ever! And remember we all make mistakes!

Bryan, first off let me thank you for pasting my entire message so that everyone can read both of ours and see how ridiculous your rebuttal is. Your little self-righteous cop-out isn't going to fool anyone. The reason you don't want to "dialogue" with me is because the facts are against you, and every little bit of MLM B.S. that you put forth I will blast out of the water.



I'm sorry if you misinterpreted my original statement- I was not trying to be sexist, as you suggest, but rather I was using an argumentative device to show the oblivious simplicity of your statements. I'll even say it again to remind everyone what the issue is here: "this woman (the original reporter) had an adverse reaction to your company's product and instead of giving her any real advice you chose to berate her and tell her that 'this chick who had 8 babies used our product'." (consumer advice: any company that needs to use extreme examples of success to sell their products is either not selling a good product, or are charging way too much for it.



A reputable company will tell you how well the product works for the average person.) Since when is using the word "chick" enough to get someone labelled as a sexist?



There is a female reporter on this site with the word "chick" in her name, is she a sexist too? Are the scores of women I hear calling eachother "chick" anti-feminists? NO! And as long as you are the authority on political correctness, aren't you discriminating against me by saying that I can't use that word because I'm a man? Get real buddy.



Stop avoiding the issue and try to show us that the company that you are representing isn't the scam which so many other posters have claimed it is. Also (as long as you insist on not understading complex semantics, like metaphors), I don't know where you went to college, but in the eight years I spent at universities I don't remember any classes like "how not to be a sexist 101," or "taking instructions 101," you must have gone to one of those remedial colleges that advertise during Jerry Springer; or wait, you are an MLM man, not concerned enough with actual facts to need an education, but just smart enought to pull the wool over the eyes of the poor people you rip off, by using logical fallacies like incorrectly attacking someone's character rather than the substance of their argument.



Try to come up with some better material, Bryan, your little MLM tactics may work on the unfortunate people who are your clients or potential recruits, but the MLM's worst enemy is an informed consumer, and there's alot of those here.

Bryan, first off let me thank you for pasting my entire message so that everyone can read both of ours and see how ridiculous your rebuttal is. Your little self-righteous cop-out isn't going to fool anyone. The reason you don't want to "dialogue" with me is because the facts are against you, and every little bit of MLM B.S. that you put forth I will blast out of the water.



I'm sorry if you misinterpreted my original statement- I was not trying to be sexist, as you suggest, but rather I was using an argumentative device to show the oblivious simplicity of your statements. I'll even say it again to remind everyone what the issue is here: "this woman (the original reporter) had an adverse reaction to your company's product and instead of giving her any real advice you chose to berate her and tell her that 'this chick who had 8 babies used our product'." (consumer advice: any company that needs to use extreme examples of success to sell their products is either not selling a good product, or are charging way too much for it.



A reputable company will tell you how well the product works for the average person.) Since when is using the word "chick" enough to get someone labelled as a sexist?



There is a female reporter on this site with the word "chick" in her name, is she a sexist too? Are the scores of women I hear calling eachother "chick" anti-feminists? NO! And as long as you are the authority on political correctness, aren't you discriminating against me by saying that I can't use that word because I'm a man? Get real buddy.



Stop avoiding the issue and try to show us that the company that you are representing isn't the scam which so many other posters have claimed it is. Also (as long as you insist on not understading complex semantics, like metaphors), I don't know where you went to college, but in the eight years I spent at universities I don't remember any classes like "how not to be a sexist 101," or "taking instructions 101," you must have gone to one of those remedial colleges that advertise during Jerry Springer; or wait, you are an MLM man, not concerned enough with actual facts to need an education, but just smart enought to pull the wool over the eyes of the poor people you rip off, by using logical fallacies like incorrectly attacking someone's character rather than the substance of their argument.



Try to come up with some better material, Bryan, your little MLM tactics may work on the unfortunate people who are your clients or potential recruits, but the MLM's worst enemy is an informed consumer, and there's alot of those here.

Bryan, first off let me thank you for pasting my entire message so that everyone can read both of ours and see how ridiculous your rebuttal is. Your little self-righteous cop-out isn't going to fool anyone. The reason you don't want to "dialogue" with me is because the facts are against you, and every little bit of MLM B.S. that you put forth I will blast out of the water.



I'm sorry if you misinterpreted my original statement- I was not trying to be sexist, as you suggest, but rather I was using an argumentative device to show the oblivious simplicity of your statements. I'll even say it again to remind everyone what the issue is here: "this woman (the original reporter) had an adverse reaction to your company's product and instead of giving her any real advice you chose to berate her and tell her that 'this chick who had 8 babies used our product'." (consumer advice: any company that needs to use extreme examples of success to sell their products is either not selling a good product, or are charging way too much for it.



A reputable company will tell you how well the product works for the average person.) Since when is using the word "chick" enough to get someone labelled as a sexist?



There is a female reporter on this site with the word "chick" in her name, is she a sexist too? Are the scores of women I hear calling eachother "chick" anti-feminists? NO! And as long as you are the authority on political correctness, aren't you discriminating against me by saying that I can't use that word because I'm a man? Get real buddy.



Stop avoiding the issue and try to show us that the company that you are representing isn't the scam which so many other posters have claimed it is. Also (as long as you insist on not understading complex semantics, like metaphors), I don't know where you went to college, but in the eight years I spent at universities I don't remember any classes like "how not to be a sexist 101," or "taking instructions 101," you must have gone to one of those remedial colleges that advertise during Jerry Springer; or wait, you are an MLM man, not concerned enough with actual facts to need an education, but just smart enought to pull the wool over the eyes of the poor people you rip off, by using logical fallacies like incorrectly attacking someone's character rather than the substance of their argument.



Try to come up with some better material, Bryan, your little MLM tactics may work on the unfortunate people who are your clients or potential recruits, but the MLM's worst enemy is an informed consumer, and there's alot of those here.

Bryan, first off let me thank you for pasting my entire message so that everyone can read both of ours and see how ridiculous your rebuttal is. Your little self-righteous cop-out isn't going to fool anyone. The reason you don't want to "dialogue" with me is because the facts are against you, and every little bit of MLM B.S. that you put forth I will blast out of the water.



I'm sorry if you misinterpreted my original statement- I was not trying to be sexist, as you suggest, but rather I was using an argumentative device to show the oblivious simplicity of your statements. I'll even say it again to remind everyone what the issue is here: "this woman (the original reporter) had an adverse reaction to your company's product and instead of giving her any real advice you chose to berate her and tell her that 'this chick who had 8 babies used our product'." (consumer advice: any company that needs to use extreme examples of success to sell their products is either not selling a good product, or are charging way too much for it.



A reputable company will tell you how well the product works for the average person.) Since when is using the word "chick" enough to get someone labelled as a sexist?



There is a female reporter on this site with the word "chick" in her name, is she a sexist too? Are the scores of women I hear calling eachother "chick" anti-feminists? NO! And as long as you are the authority on political correctness, aren't you discriminating against me by saying that I can't use that word because I'm a man? Get real buddy.



Stop avoiding the issue and try to show us that the company that you are representing isn't the scam which so many other posters have claimed it is. Also (as long as you insist on not understading complex semantics, like metaphors), I don't know where you went to college, but in the eight years I spent at universities I don't remember any classes like "how not to be a sexist 101," or "taking instructions 101," you must have gone to one of those remedial colleges that advertise during Jerry Springer; or wait, you are an MLM man, not concerned enough with actual facts to need an education, but just smart enought to pull the wool over the eyes of the poor people you rip off, by using logical fallacies like incorrectly attacking someone's character rather than the substance of their argument.



Try to come up with some better material, Bryan, your little MLM tactics may work on the unfortunate people who are your clients or potential recruits, but the MLM's worst enemy is an informed consumer, and there's alot of those here.

I would like to express my opinion on the complaint and the rebuttal. I do agree with the rebuttal in that she should have dealt directly with M. I have been a Marketing executive since August and I have had to deal with the company already and had excellent results. It has always been expressed to us by the company that we are not distributors and henceforth do not handle the products and/or customer complaints. That is why they have customer service.



On the other hand. We, as members of the human race, need to control ourselves, put others first, and learn to be gracious. We should not at any time belittle another person's problem or complaints because it could be you some day. What does God's word say? Treat others as you would want to be treated? I can understand why you were so angry by the time you talked to a customer rep. but you should have given them half a chance.

Rebuttal Consumer Comment

Submitted: 1/2/2003 11:19:02 AM

Modified: 1/3/2003 1:28:17 AM



Not exactly making your company look good



your response to the complaint above seems to follow the same kind of tune Tracy recieved from all the people she dealt with. Do they train you guys in terrible customer service? What kind of excuse is "do you know how many people our offices deal with."



What reputable company would use that as an excuse for not knowing what the hell is going on with a customer issue? You keep repeating "you should have dealt with the company directly," but why would she do that when they are too busy speaking other languages to give her any real information? Besides that, Tracy felt as though she was dealing with a representative of the company who could help her, and rightly so because this is what she was led to believe by this agent.



Are you saying that your company's salespeople are not to be trusted? This woman had an adverse reaction to your product, and all you can say is "you must have been using someone elses stuff" and "this chick who had 8 babies used our product." Typical MLM drivel. This customer has a legitimate complaint, and you chose to berate her.



A better approach for your company's sake would have been to apologize for her inconveniences and offer her some decent advice on how to rectify the situation. Maybe you should stop trying to come up with excuses for ripping people off and spend a little time reading up on customer service.



tim - grand haven, Michigan

U.S.A.



Tim: YOUR sexist remark "this chick who had 8 babies used our product" is YOUR very own sexist remark.



Nowhere in my rebuttal did I say such a thing.



Go back to school and learn:



- How to read (Reading 101)

- How NOT to be Sexist (Sexist 101)



Then come back to dialogue with me. Until then, this and any future your left-field postings will not be honored with a full reply from me.



All the best.

your response to the complaint above seems to follow the same kind of tune Tracy recieved from all the people she dealt with. Do they train you guys in terrible customer service? What kind of excuse is "do you know how many people our offices deal with."



What reputable company would use that as an excuse for not knowing what the hell is going on with a customer issue? You keep repeating "you should have dealt with the company directly," but why would she do that when they are too busy speaking other languages to give her any real information? Besides that, Tracy felt as though she was dealing with a representative of the company who could help her, and rightly so because this is what she was led to believe by this agent.



Are you saying that your company's salespeople are not to be trusted? This woman had an adverse reaction to your product, and all you can say is "you must have been using someone elses stuff" and "this chick who had 8 babies used our product." Typical MLM drivel. This customer has a legitimate complaint, and you chose to berate her.



A better approach for your company's sake would have been to apologize for her inconveniences and offer her some decent advice on how to rectify the situation. Maybe you should stop trying to come up with excuses for ripping people off and spend a little time reading up on customer service.

your response to the complaint above seems to follow the same kind of tune Tracy recieved from all the people she dealt with. Do they train you guys in terrible customer service? What kind of excuse is "do you know how many people our offices deal with."



What reputable company would use that as an excuse for not knowing what the hell is going on with a customer issue? You keep repeating "you should have dealt with the company directly," but why would she do that when they are too busy speaking other languages to give her any real information? Besides that, Tracy felt as though she was dealing with a representative of the company who could help her, and rightly so because this is what she was led to believe by this agent.



Are you saying that your company's salespeople are not to be trusted? This woman had an adverse reaction to your product, and all you can say is "you must have been using someone elses stuff" and "this chick who had 8 babies used our product." Typical MLM drivel. This customer has a legitimate complaint, and you chose to berate her.



A better approach for your company's sake would have been to apologize for her inconveniences and offer her some decent advice on how to rectify the situation. Maybe you should stop trying to come up with excuses for ripping people off and spend a little time reading up on customer service.

your response to the complaint above seems to follow the same kind of tune Tracy recieved from all the people she dealt with. Do they train you guys in terrible customer service? What kind of excuse is "do you know how many people our offices deal with."



What reputable company would use that as an excuse for not knowing what the hell is going on with a customer issue? You keep repeating "you should have dealt with the company directly," but why would she do that when they are too busy speaking other languages to give her any real information? Besides that, Tracy felt as though she was dealing with a representative of the company who could help her, and rightly so because this is what she was led to believe by this agent.



Are you saying that your company's salespeople are not to be trusted? This woman had an adverse reaction to your product, and all you can say is "you must have been using someone elses stuff" and "this chick who had 8 babies used our product." Typical MLM drivel. This customer has a legitimate complaint, and you chose to berate her.



A better approach for your company's sake would have been to apologize for her inconveniences and offer her some decent advice on how to rectify the situation. Maybe you should stop trying to come up with excuses for ripping people off and spend a little time reading up on customer service.

Tracy: I'm going to help you angry paragraph by angry paragraph. I know how you feel. I felt the same way too. Let me show what I found:



:::While like many I was excited to hear about a company that had products that were safe for my family and the environment. I was approached by a person that told me about melaleuca and said this is really great stuff you should try it. I read her information and listened to her and her friend talk about how much they enjoyed the products and decided to give it a try. While the chance was there for me to make a little money I wasn't interested in the whole MLM thing just wanted safe and healthy products for me and my family.:::



You had the right idea this time.

---------------



:::I brought home my "value" pack to the tune of 238.00 with shipping and tax and my business kit that was an additional 32.00 dollars.:::



I bought a 'Career Pack' for $299. + shipping & tax, and wrote it and my $32. business kit off in my taxes last year as part of my 'business expenses,' which by the way, also included my new fax machine. Completely legal under our capitalist system of laws. If you don't like it, move to North Korea where they have communism.

----------------



:::After bringing home the box of products I had purchased I noticed that a few things were missing or substituted. I called the women i had gotten it from and she told me she would get them to me.:::



You should have called the company directly and toll free 1-800-282-3000, given them your invoice number and they would have shipped the following morning to you, First Class, any items that were missing from your Value Pack. At times, I've had this happen with my own monthly order, and I simply call toll-free with my invoice number, and they rush whatever is missing or damaged to me immediately.

----------------



:::After a month one of the products arrived via the mail but the other didn't. I called her again and let he know that I still didn't have the other product and she said she would take care of it.:::



Again, you should have dealt with Melaleuca Inc. directly and toll free.

----------------



:::After almost 2 months I had decided for many reasons (rashes, asthma attacks, nausea and vomiting and products that didn't work):::



What? Are you sure you weren't still using your expensive and harsh Amway leftovers?



Out of over 100 customers in my organization, NONE has ever made the horrendous health claims you make here. On the contrary.

------------------



:::to return the box of products for a full refund as Guaranteed by the Company. I still hadn't received the other product that was promised to me.



I returned the box to the same women since she had my shipping invoice that needed to be shipped with the box of product.:::



For the third time, you should have dealt directly to Melaleuca Inc.

--------------------



:::She in turn gave it to a senior director to return.:::



These women don't know how to do Melaleuca the Melaleuca way. We don't take product returns under CONSUMER DIRECT MARKETING. The company does.

--------------------



:::I originally turned the box in on November 8 or 9. On November 26th when I still saw no return to my debit card I called the Company and was informed that they had no record of the return.:::



For the fourth time, you should have dealt directly with Melaleuca Inc.

----------------



:::After this I called the senior director that returned the package and was told Melaleuca received that package back on November 19th.:::



For the fifth time, you should have dealth with Melaleuca Inc. directly. ay ay ay caramba....

------------------



:::I again called melalueca and asked about my refund.



After many transfers and a ton of time on hold I was given a non toll free number to call to take care of this problem. After much time on the phone we finally got the paperwork started to issue my refund. At this point I was told 24-48 hours for the refund to process back to my debit card but with the holiday to give it an extra day which would be Friday. On Friday I still had no refund but decided to wait till Saturday and see if the money was back or not.



Saturday morning I checked my bank acct and still no refund so I again call long distance and talked to Melaleuca and was informed that the refund was credited to my Card on the 26th and I should call my bank. I called my bank and they showed no record of a refund, I then called Melaleuca back and was told that the credit wasn't processed yet but that I could expect it to happen and be back into my account within 24-48 hours.



On Monday morning when this still hadn't happened I again called melalueca and asked where my money was and at that point I was told that it was returned to my that morning and to expect it in 24-48 hours. This 24-48 hours has come and gone and still no refund. Today I called my bank again and they show no record of it at all, so I again called melalueca and asked about my money I was now informed that the refund was issued and it could be 14-21 days to get my refund and that my products hadnt even been returned until yesterday.



I asked why I was given so many time frames for my refund and so many different dates for things to take place. There answer was we have no idea.:::



Do you have any idea how many people the human beings at Melaleuca Inc. deal with on a daily basis and in several languages? Had you dealt with those friendly folks at Idaho Falls from the beginning, you would have gotten much better results. Trust me.

---------------



:::At this point I was pretty angry:::



You should have taken an Access Fat Conversion Bar and gone for a walk.

-----------------



:::and just wanted my money back so I called the senior director:::



ay ay ay.... for the sixth time, you should have dealt with the company directly.

----------------



:::that returned the package and explained the events that had taken place. She then conference called melalueca to inquire about the many conflicting pieces of information I had been given. It was at this point I was told that my money was refunded and I just had to wait for it to show up.



I asked why it was taking so long since they had the product back on the 19th of November and was informed that it had been a very busy month.:::



You better believe that Nov/02 was a very busy month. It was the best Nov. in years! Documented!

--------------

:::Needless to say at this point Im still pretty angry:::



You should have taken another Access Bar and gone for another walk. You would have been the happiest gal in the whole State of Minnesota!

--------------



:::and expressed my discontent with the company and the fact that I would never do business with them again.



After I made my feelings clear I was informed that they had done me so many favors and that I just needed to be patient.:::



They didn't lie to you...

--------------



:::I'm sorry but if I spend money with a company I will not be treated as if I owe them something and I will not wait forever to have my money returned if I have returned the product that was purchased. I will not be lied to repeatedly and just be quiet about it.:::



I hear you and agree with you 110%. But one must follow instructions sometimes.

---------------



:::This Company is very rude, they lie to customers and when you get upset they treat you like dirt.:::



What? are you sure you are not confusing Melaleuca Inc. with Am...?



I've been treated like dirt by Melaleuca in my 20-month experience.

----------------



:::I should also note that after I cancelled my acct with them and requested a refund they went ahead and charged my card after I rescinded permission and mailed more crappy products to me.:::



The backup order. Had you dealt with Melaleuca Inc. directly from the beginning, they would have reminded you that you need to write a ONE LINE cancellation request, sign it in ink, and mail the original to them. This would have effectively ended your membership.



"Crappy" products? You obviously never used the Melaleuca products following the instructions on the label. You simply can not follow instructions. If I ever see you driving, I will pull over on the closest shoulder and let you pass. You sound like an threatening driver who gets ANGRY pretty fast and can not follow instructions.

------------



:::So now I play the hurry up and wait game hoping that I will get my 250.00 back soon. Beware of this company they arent what they appear. They are real nice till you act like a customer and expect to be treated as such. :::



Tracy, unfortunately for you and everyone who reads your ANGRY testimonial, you are not qualified to talk about Melaleuca, good or bad. One or two months with the company and not even using their products following instructions does not make you a Melaleuca expert.



After 20 months of continued use of the Melaleuca products, I believe I am 20 times more qualified than you are to talk about these awesome products.



Now, I am not at all suggesting that you or anyone else is going to like all the Melaleuca products. I don't like all of their products. But I like and use 98% of them...



Just remember that the Iowa septuplets mom had to spend 21 weeks in bed with that pregnancy. You spend 3 days in bed and see how you are going to feel. Yet, she was strong enough to successfully deliver those 7 little angels. However, she did not take GNC's or Avon's or WalMart's pre-natal vitamins, she used Melaleuca's "Vitality Pak" with the patented Fructose Compounding mineral delivery system. (...and she followed the instructions on the label, by the way.)