World Financial Group - World Market Securities - World Group Securities Use your brain, and staff away from this company ripoff Las Vegas Nevada

I thought everyone knew MLM dynamics by now. But, maybe it is because I am both a former member of the LDS religion (as the OP made the comparison to) and I come from a family (and friends) who were actively avoided by many because they (esp. my mother) essentially got raped by so many.

Sometimes, my mother would sign me up without even telling me (she was trying not to actually forge my name to contracts, so she would call and yell "JUST SIGN AND QUIT BEING SO CRITICAL OF EVERYTHING! I'M JUST TRYING TO HELP YOU!! IS THAT SO WRONG?!?" and would pay my fees so that she could have a 'downline' and receive various discounts). She went bankrupt and died nearly penniless from a pattern of buying expensive products from the shadiest of loosiest goosiest sources that made outrageous claims for curing her cancer. She was a fantastic target. Too bad that more leeches couldn't get her to come to their meetings. She lost a fortune from her career and real estate investments that gave us a very comfortable life from getting scalped by these venture vultures. How she could both have a Mensa-level IQ + Master's Degree and be so gullible leave us speechless to this day--the curiousity of Scientology comes to mind. Sometimes people just get sucked in for various reasons. They purchase hope, I suppose. I guess I do when I purchase skin creams too...it's slightly less risky (or not?) 

I don't crack a sweat at being told things like, "Hey, I care about you. I'm going to do very well and I don't want to have to leave you behind." I know. I said the same things when I was Mormon...("Why, if I KNOW the Truth, wouldn't I share it with the people I love the most? Huh? WHY?!? I want you to be in the Celestial Kingdom with me or else we'll never see each other again!") *sigh* (And to be truthful, I'm still a member of that religion because in order to NOT be a member, you have to go to great lengths to get your name off their rosters. I am one of those they can claim is a member to boost their numbers. I just don't care.)

So, today, a friend asked if I would come and listen to him practice teaching people about finances for his new 'job.' (I teach classes on a subject and I have a college degree. I have asked him to assist in one of my classes). Sure, I'll do that for him because he's sweet and works hard for little money. 

We agreed to meet at Starbucks for this. I called on my way to tell him I was just about there, but was lost. He answered, "That's ok, WE'RE just enjoying the sun." Who is 'we'? Yah, you guessed it. His 'mentor.' I played along as his prospective client. Poor friend was sweating out his armpits with nervousness. I encouraged him that it's just me..."Whatcha got there?" Ok, yep...it's good to have money. Nope, I do not have money. "Pay yourself first?" Yep, read that in "The Richest Man in Babylon" (required reading for my finance class in college). Didn't know the rule of 72. Cool, thanks for that. Good information comes at a cost though, don't you know? How much? People rarely dress up to give out 'free' things, especially their time if they are a 'baller' like this mentor pursuading me to believe based on his appearance and mannerisms alone. BTW, nice looking presentation materials. Making a mental note for my own classes.

Mentor jumps in (oh oh....do not do that with me. I see your slick yet impatient smile. You think you are smoother than you are. I get it. You would make a great Senior Companion for a new Mormon missionary), "Let me ask you, what do you think contributed to your financial condition today, Ms. Thing?" No problem. "I had a great job with benefits in the tech industry, single, no kids, and then my parents started dying and I had to decide...focus on work or care for them. I could not do both and if you've ever accompanied a senior to a doctor appointment, you'll know what I'm talking about. And then I became a poster child for Obamacare. Catastrophic illness that left me unable to even drive and now have a pre-existing condition--monstrous bills and bye bye to 401K, investments...everything. $800/mo for meds. It was worth it. I spent every last moment with my beloved parents. I can re-build...or die trying."

"That's super neat...you're a a 'natural' teacher. You could really help people with your story. At WFG, our priorities are (if I can remember...) Faith, Family, Health, Work. I know I butchered that but "faith" stood out. Inside I went, "Oh dear, friend is in deep." Never, but never talk about religion and somebody's money in the same breath. Do not introduce it into any conversation that is supposed to be credible. I caught it as he tried to swoosh it past me. It instantly discredited anything that came after.

Did you know that Utah has a special FBI division for fraud just in that state? Look it up if you like. My theory--young guys are sent out to become persistent sales people who specialize in emotions and glom onto the most vulnerable. (For fun, read "Elders" if you feel intrigued.) They come back from missions to people who trust and revere them on a fairly large scale. They are heroes. They need jobs and are recruited (attracted to) things that involve sales. They have been out of the college loop that their contemporaries pursued. They are behind. SOME will go to college; others pursue sales. It is bacteria in bacteria friendly climate, in my opinion. Unless you are a church bookstore, do NOT combine religion/faith and a business meeting. Unless you are of the same faith and just really cannot get enough.  

So, then I offered, "But you know what I did right?" Oops, I went off script. Sorry. "On my way downhill, I purchased tools for the vocation I used to get myself through college and that's how I'm paying the bills right now and partially how I will rebuild. I don't shop, I don't have consumer debt, and I don't even take the car out unless it's to get groceries or teach my classes. I'm frugal." (He questioned if I realized how much $ I was spending on a Starbucks. None, my friend purchased it for me.)

Now, if you're like Slick Eddie in my family, this is where you say, "Aww, you're amazing. Oh, look at the time. I have another appt." Like a calendar that has 12 months, it was predictable. Friend and I went to lunch afterward. He insisted on paying (I insisted on paying him cold, hard cash for assisting in my class a week before. It hurt to let him do this.). He also was wearing a new suit. He was also driving a new car that I know he cannot afford. He said he needed to have an image if anyone is to give him the time of day about managing their money. He's very sweet and walking the fine line of "I know this isn't your thing, I just thought that since you're struggling for money, you might like a way to earn..." We talked about downlines and how if I DID need life insurance, I would want him to sign me up and get ALL of the credit--maybe he could work DIRECTLY for a company. Aww, but he thinks he has 'support' with his upliners. He even gave them the 'gift' of his $300 for teaching him all that he now knows. Ok, he feels he got value for his money. 

As friends, we sat at lunch and took our time chatting. Ring. Ring. My friend picks up his phone. Hmmm...I wonder who? Ah yes..."Well, actually we're sitting here right now having lunch," I hear him cautiously answer. Mentor wants to know how HIS prospect went. My friend cannot legally sell or benefit from much off of me right now. No way, Slick Eddie, you and pretentiousness are not getting my business. I do see that you are not so interested in ME, per se, but you ARE interested in the outcome of the meeting. Next time, don't bother pretending. 

Were I to ask the Verizon salesperson if they give a rat's bonnet about my personal life, I'm pretty sure the young kid would say, "Eh, not at all! But I think you'll love this phone!" I appreciate that.

To wrap up our conversation, I tell my friend that the reason I teach the subject matter that I do is that it is a major interest of mine naturally. And, because of this, I read, attend conferences, collaborate, and know the subject matter so thoroughly that I can handle a curveball respectfully and, often, creatively. I teach theory and I actively solve problems. I welcome information that I do not know if someone brings it to class. I find it fascinating when someone does this. I thank them, I investigate, and incorporate new information, and give credit where it is due. Were I to try to have a p/t job 'teaching' about finances (something that is right out of my league), I would know just enough to get my butt handed to me and it would be the most irresponsible thing I could imagine doing, not to mention the most boring. 

Do I want to help the people I love? Sure. They get sick or need a place to stay, it's there. We'll help each other--we always have.

Finally...a background check fee? No company I have ever been recruited by has ever asked me to pay for one. They will happily do it because they are pretty certain they would like to hire me already and are doing it as a last-check formality. I took a job at Target out of desperation and even THEY didn't ask for such a fee for their all-important drug test. I just had to show up and pee. Any further training I get (and I have received great, expensive training at UCSD) was paid for by the company. They invested in my learning to benefit their needs--apparently they felt I was worth the risk of investment. 

Here's another tip...if you have dreams of becoming a celebrity, never pay an agency a fee; never pay for professional headshots; and NEVER pay for acting lessons an agency offers. You know, just one of those life things that go right along with "Never take a wooden nickel" that has absolutely no meaning to anyone under the age of 50.  When I do re-invest again, I will choose educated, certified people from credible organizations and ask right up front, "What do charge?" I don't ask them to enter my profession and it would be weird for them to ask me to enter theirs. If there IS any background fee to be paid, I just might pay to check out THEIRS.

Good luck out there and stay safe. 

 

I was very happy to read your complaints and updates on WGS. I've had big problems with them as a customer. Please read my seperate complaint at RipOffREport.

In response to your glorious column, I did grow up, I work for one of the few super luxury hotel companies in the world (my hotel is five star five diamond - do me a favor and try to even name one), was promoted four times in the last two years, and remain in Beverly Hills! Ciao you little chigarito

In the 22 years I have been in the financial services business, I have only known anyone to fail for one reason --- they don't work. I've been with WFG for 16 years and I was with 3 more traditional large insurance companies before that. I noticed that Carmine claims admittance to law school but does not claim graduation. Hmm, is there a pattern here. You can spend all of your time complaining about things or you can do things to fix them. No business is perfect and there no perfect people (other than those who post negative comments) so no matter who the company is, you are always going to find people who do not do it right. However, WFG has a below average complaint ratio in every state they operate in and fewer complaints than other broker/dealers of the same size. You don't have to take my word for it, you can research this yourself but it do it correctly. Go to your state insurance department's website and look up complaints for the companies WFG represents and go to FINRA and look it up. But, don't just look up WFG, look up other broker/dealers and insurance companies. Does this mean that everyone in WFG always does it right? Don't be silly. Incidentally, I am not an attorney. I have a degree in engineering and I am former Marine Corps officer. I have seen nothing in WFG that would convince me that anything Carmine says is correct. But, I will agree that Carmine could have gone to a meeting that was run by stupid people who shouldn't be part of WFG or, perhaps, Carmine used creative interpetation. I do know that I have always been honest with people and I have been reasonable successful with WFG. If I used the same criteria that Carmine used I could conclude that the US Marine Corps is a scam. It was certainly a lot harder than I expected and somebody actually shot me in Vietnam in 1968. My counsel to Carmine is --- grow up!

Like the original author of this article that I am responding to I worked, and work, for World Financial Group. But unllike this individual I found just the opposite to be true. The presentation I originally viewed was very professional, presented by a very capable  and respected estate planning attorney. There was no mention of "harnessing your mortgage", as a matter of fact I attended another financial seminar from another company  shortly after this one and there entire focus was on "harnassing your Mortgage". when I brought this concept up in one of the training meetings I was clearly instructed that this concept was not endorsed by the World Financial Group company and agents promoting it were subject to termination.

Further, I was inteviewed extensively before my acceptance into the company. I now work with an attorney, CPA's, MBA's and a variety of experienced business professionals from the insurance industry, sales and management in my WFG group.

I am an experienced business professional with 20 years of management experience and found the securities exams to be anything but easy. As a matter of fact I have always done well with professional exams and expected to do so with the securities exams. Even though I passed them on the first try, they required A LOTof study and practice. i would not be surprised if the typical new agent had to take them more than once. This, to me, is siimply a testament to their belief in the value of those licenses with WFG. ( I wonder how our law student would do on these exams?)

It is unfortunate, that every company has its good and bad. I have found the rule to be the good with WFG, and the exception to be  the bad. The Las Vegas area is noted for lots of schemes in many business arenas, and it apprarently may have spilled over into this situation. Don't judge the entire company by this bad experience. This incident is not indicative of my experiences with the company.

The former article has a lot of inferences,opinions, emotion and generalities that a law student will quickly learn are not only ineffective, but indicate a lack of knowledge and professionalism and will not win arguments in a legal discussion.

the facts speak louder than opinions. The facts are:

That that WFG is one of the leading financial companies in the US and also the fastest growing.

WFG offers unique products and strategies managed by some of the world's best financial managers, according to Forbes, that no other financial institution in America is offering to the general public, period.

WFG's primary goal is to educate and empower families to become financially independent.

WFG has millions of clients, with billions of dollars in investment assets, who are not affiliated in any way with the company except as satisfied clients.

SEC & FINRA securities licenses cost money and require a lot of study. . .Part of being a professional.

VUL's and EIUL's properly understood, managed and structured, are some of the finest investment vehicles available. . . TAX FREE growth (that is worth 30+%), far ABOVE MARKET RETURNS (at least, with WFG's 3rd party professional managers), and their average administartion costs cost over the life of the policy is less than virtually any other instrument out there, and you get a paid-up life insurance policy to boot.

WFG has preferred relationships with companies like Pacific Life, Prudential, Western Reserve Life, Transamerica, ING, and over 60 more similar quality financial service providers,  and WFG is owned by one of the oldest and 50 largest financial institutions in the world, AEGON.

If the law student wants to believe that the market cap is 10% as he indicated, I would love to invest his money, if he actually had any, return the 10%, and keep the 20-50% excess that some of America real money managers are returning to their investors.

Bottom line is that Carmine Las Vegas had a bad experience, ( I do feel sincerely bad for that)  has provided only partial information, doesn't understand licensing laws, and has a very narrow view of investment instruments and investing, reads too many columns and relies on the experts online to think for him, or her, . . .and apparently got too emotional about the entire experience.

WWR - UTAH

To start things off, I recently graduated from college and have slowly (but surely) have begun to make a life for myself. I work in the mornings at a company at which I wish to succeed and in the evenings at a minimum wage store to make ends meet (mainly to pay off student loans).  Today, I was approached by a very pleasant woman with a pretty general question that lead on to a brief conversation. As she was walking away she asked me if I was a manager, I replied quite frankly with no, I am just a lowly employee. She proceeded to give me a card with world financial group contact info, w the premise of making something of my life. It sounded too good to be true, why would they be trying to hire me when there is surely hundreds upon hundreds of people infinitely more capable than me to provide financial services? So I looked it up on on-line (iphone) and pyramid scheme flew up everywhere. I was upset so I got the card, found the cell phone number and texted how they could go f themselves and their pyramid scheme.  Ok, I shouldn't have done that, bad. Very bad. An hour later, the contact number recipient (dude) shows up and informs me on how I am going to die and so forth. I would of understood if he was upset about me telling him and wife to f-off.  Mainly he was pissed-off about defaming WFG. Telling me how I was never going to never amount to nothing, and work my menial job forever. I take pride in what I do, after all, its honest. I work hard to make something of myself in the future. I do not rely on taking advantage of people and their hard earned savings. As he said: "I make half a mill a year." But at what cost?

Please excuse grammatical errors.

I read this complaint as well as the rebuttals. The constructive feedback I have to offer is this... Everyone should be in a profession that they have passion for and believe in 100%. I find that even if these two criteria are met, a company like WFG would still receive derogatory comments because of their unique business model. People are used to working for others as W-2 employees and enjoying a false sense of security over the years and possibly never retire with the resources they need to live comfortably. Because WFG opens an individual's mind, gives them an opportunity and encourages entrepreneurialism, that doesn't make them a bad company.

Recently, I had the chance to sit down with a WFG Rep to learn more about the company, how the services will help me on a personal level and how I'm able to educate and help others if I choose to do so. I believe that this level of education is missing in our society and WFG is providing an important and well needed service. In addition, I've implemented their recommendations and it has made a difference in my life.

Of course, I consider myself 'world class' and not many people in today's society fall into that category. There are way too many people who don't have an open mind to new ways of accomplishing things in the business world. They would rather criticize others and blame everyone for their lack of success. And with regard to WFG being "one of those pyramid or MLM companies", I have some bad news for you! The biggest pyramid scheme or MLM out there is the company you work for as a W-2 employee. Who makes the money? I've found that it's really difficult to even get a raise that beats inflation for crying out loud. No matter how good you are, IT DOESN'T MATTER. At least WFG gives you a chance to develop your skills and take care of your family financially.

I'm not writing this rebuttal to ruffle any feathers but instead, I suggest that you make your own decisions based on your interaction with your local WFG Rep. It's a wholesome company offering good values and education. With all of the financial challenges in the world today, many more large companies will be adopting a similar distribution model instead of hiring a huge salesforce. Keeping their overhead low and accomplishing the same level of sales (if not more) makes more business sense.

Lastly, pickup a copy of 'Think and Grow Rich' by Napolean Hill and then evaluate your mindset. Another great book is '101 Mental Toughness Secrets of the World Class' by Steve Siebold. Remember that as with any company, you'll have good points and bad points. You'll work with knowledgeable people and not so knowledgeable people. The people are the same as in the traditional workforce but the model is different.

It's ALL UP TO YOU and what you want in life. No one can force you to be successful!

I can confirm all of what Carmine says up to the first interview as true. Their MO is the same. They keep you in the dark and don't tell you what is going on or what the product is.
-They'll tell you whatever you want to hear to get you to a meeting. I was told it was a marketing position. I spoke with several others at the pre-meeting mixer and everyone basically got told what they wanted to hear to come for the pitch.

-They keep stressing the fact that you're going to be an entrepreneur and a business owner if you work with them and that you're going to help families

-They really push the AEGON angle and throw big names like Sony, ING, JC Penny out there and keep talking about everything but what you will do or what you will sell.

-They play up your emotions with agents giving accounts of success stories and how WFG changed their lives. Kept talking about taking nice vacations etc, really playing up the money angle.

Look, there is nothing wrong with being an insurance sales person. What irks me is this convoluted scheme to get you to hand over names and numbers under the pretense of an interview and then the subsequent sales job on yourself. I'm lucky that it became apparent to me what exactly was going on here. I had handed over my list of references to the guy with my resume when we started and I asked him to hand it back midway through when I got fed up with the whole sham process and decided to leave. Otherwise people I respect who are kind enough to let me use them as references would be getting calls from this guy claiming I referred them to him.

Basically if you want to be an insurance salesperson WFG might be a company worth considering if you can put up with the whole drama and data mining they put you through. Though honestly you might be better off with another company that does not need to this elaborate facade to get people to work for them on a commission only basis. Let me put it this way, I don't want to sell insurance but if I did, I'd rather go work with state farm whose guy just called me straight up and asked if I wanted to sell insurance. That I can respect.

Hi Everyone.

I joined WFG about two weeks ago. I am in my third year of college as a business major pending transfer to either UCR or Cal State Channel Islands. I'll start by saying that alot of what Andrew is saying is true. The majority of agents are minorities, and there are a few that I wouldn't doubt act unethically to get ahead in the company.

Like Andrew, I came in as a skeptic and I disliked the "mozone" meetings, was pressured into making a prospect list and I also disagree with the priority scheme of how a family should handle their finances. In my opinion it should be Retirement fund (401k, 403B, IRA, etc), *House*, Debt, Rainy Day Fund - MMA, Health insurance and then life. WFG preaches life insurance as a top priority and they fail to include a house in their investment illustration, both of which I disagree with.

It seems the agents (college educated or not) are uninformed and the majority of higher ups are only concerned with increasing their income, even if it means recommending someone a VUL when they clearly cannot afford it.

I only stick with the company because I truly want to help people, which is why I am also pursuing the various Securities licenses as well. It just sucks that my avenue is through a company that has such a bad reputation, but please note that not all us agents are bad. I can speak for myself and my direct upline when I say we want to help people invest in their futures.

Also if anyone has signed for a VUL recently and you feel like its not right for you. Mail the policy back first class with a tracking number to the insurer. As long as they receive it within ten days upon you receiving the policy they are obligated to rescind it per law by the California Insurance Code.

Younger people are better off with term anyway until they have a solid income, a house, and well managed or no debt minus the mortgage.

MMM.. I have to admit this person has at least had some actual experience with WFG, unlike most of the comments I have read here from time to time. The challenge with this type of criticism as most is it takes some truths, such as. The company pushes attendance to national conventions, as any legitimate sales organization does to motovate its reps, and then uses inflamitory language like manipulation and alot of insulting comments like idiots, and morons.

All of this is proven language pattern of individuals who have no real substance to their complaint and psycologically need to rely on such additives in a vain attempt to legitimize their claim.

My guess here is that Ed must have sent someone to a WFG office finally to get some real information about the company he has been attempting to degrade. The truth is anyone in the securities industry knows half of the so-called facts listed here are erroneous. The fact that 10% is about all you can get out of the market is completely out of line with reality. The fact is not just anyone can get a series 6,63, and 26 without knowing what they are doing. This is a highly regulated industry and people do not get to do the things this person here is trying to claim they do.

Our company could not just be selling VULs because the company would get shut down if it were.

HERE ARE THE FACTS

Any company anywhere, no matter how large or small as they grow is bound to recruit people who do not do the right things for others. The real issue is what happens to them when someone actually blows the whistle. Our company gets rid of people like the one you described. Have you blown the whistle on this guy or are you just complaining to a website. There is recourse if any of the claims you make are accurate, which is why it seems they may be exaggerated to say the least.

To start with, I will address the issue of why so many people may be reporting something about their experience with WFG, as the rebuttal instructions have asked. WFG aggressively is recruiting people in the market of the average American, and unfortunately most average people are not familiar with what it takes to run a business. Recruitment tactics of any and all companies are going to laud the success of other examples and talk about things that excite the potential recruit about working with them. Our company, just like any other company that is trying to find OR develop entrepreneurs, simply attract allot of people who pay a start up cost, and then when they find out that success does not just fall out of they sky and hit them on the head, that it actually required a sustained effort involving hard work and determination.

The AVERAGE person gives up way, way too soon. They cannot break free from the employee mentality, they cannot overcome human nature and make themselves work hard, they need a boss to drive them or to be even blunter, and some are just flat out unambitious. Allot of people who have no real legitimate complaint or issue feel they can hurt a company like ours in spit over losing $100 start up cost, or the cost of licensing (which by the way, if they get their license, it belongs to them, it is their professional designation that they can now take to any firm and use) otherwise if it is legitimate it could, and should be taken up with the proper authorities.

Most people realize that with our company, a legitimate complaint WILL be answered to by authorities, so the best vindication they can get with a complaint that really is one with no real substance, can be a stab at our companies good name in a venue like this that they feel no sense of accountability over their venting. Simply put, they are upset they spent money at a business that they did not have what it takes to succeed and they want to find blame in anything other than themselves, it is common human nature, and that is why it is so prevalent on a site like this one.

Now were this a legitimate complaint, good people in our company would CRINGE over it at try to find a way to resolve it. I myself am upset if anything this person claims is actually true, I would feel we owe them an apology! However after sifting through the site it seems my former argument hold more truth. Here however is my attempt to right some wrongs here!

These are some actual facts. World Financial Group or more specific World Group Securities is a member of FINRA, formally the NASD. They are regulated both by that organization as well as having to ultimate answer to the SEC, who if you would just educate yourself on the matter, just does not mess around, ask Martha Stewart. If somehow our company across the board was giving erroneous and malicious service, there would be more credible and verifiable sources that could be contacted other then what amounts to a complaint blog.

There are the state regulators as well as FINRA. On FINRA you can do a broker dealer check not just on the company, but individual reps. You can see the FACT that in spite of World Group Securities being in the top five of ALL Broker Dealers in the country in terms of NUMBER OF REGISTERED REPS, meaning we have more people that could potentially be doing wrong and immoral and illegal things, than everyone but a handful, you will see a grand total 6 or 7 actual cases of arbitration or findings of wrongdoing.

Have we had some people do some wrong things, ABSOLUTELY, every company has idiots. However I challenge you to do more research of some other firms, firms more known by advertising that because they cast the spell of media over their image you might think them a pristine ivory tower, until you do the research that counts, and find they have dozens and even hundreds of arbitration cases and findings of wrongdoing, and with a much smaller and supposedly more manageable number or reps. This is information which will not be found on a site like this, until someone busy with better things to do like myself chooses to take valuable precious time out of my day to write this.

I will wrap up with this information. I am a Branch Office Supervisor with this company, and everyone here, including myself, is an independent contractor. The company teaches a system, but not everyone chooses to follow it, it is their prerogative, we are not employees, we get to run our own show, to a point. If what you say about your experience is true, than that group needs to be audited and disciplined. At my office in South Barrington, IL we DO teach people about great sound principles, such as term insurance, 529 plans, Roth IRAs and the other things you mentioned. So that is simply not true at all what you stated about our company.

Another major overstatement, actually a fallacy is we do not recommend AEGON companies over non AEGON companies. Yes allot of business goes to WRL, but that is because they have some of the cheapest term insurance around. Pac Life, Allianz, American Skandia / Prudential, AIM Funds, all preferred providers that are a big part of what we do are NOT AEGON companies. In our office we use the Bright Directions 529 Plan all the time, we use Jackson, we use First Trust Portfolios UITs. We use Lincoln Benefit Life and Old Mutual, none of which are Aegon companies. I am proud of our track record, our office has hundreds and hundreds of happy clients, and to my knowledge NOT ONE SINGLE customer complaint. We are members of the local Chamber of Commerce and are well respected in our community; we would NEVER treat people the way you claim you were treated there. I work closely with most of the offices in Chicago, and I have never heard of anything at all like what is supposedly happening wherever you were, it has escaped me as I have been writing.

In the end, this is a business, and to be successful in any business it requires time and money. If you have a complaint about spending either one, than WFG simply is not a viable option for you. If you have thousands to spend, go buy a McDonalds Franchise. If you are like me and you have started off practically broke and in obscurity, but you have a dream, you are willing to work hard for that dream, and you understand, the privilege to run your own business like a WFG business will cost you some money to operate, but you, like me can see the investment pay off in the end, you can make a dream income, just like I have started to.

First of all, I'm not at work, to that end - I have no reason to respond professionally to someone as stupid as yourself. Let me guess, you left the company and got jewed (i mean screwed)!

And yes, I do know what the hell I am talking about... not everyday that you are recruited by the VP of a Reputable company out of students from the university I graduated at, University of Pennsylvania and Cornell (look them up on the web cha-chi).

TO THE PALM BEACH COMMENT... guess what my parents have an estate there (yes they are rich)... and as an update, I am now in Beverly Hills. Yes I am doing well, hope you're rotting wherever you are.

And WOW, you must be clairvoyant to have figured out that Carmine and Andrew are both me. Regarding the insults... you deserve all of them for your complicit behaviors with your sick excuse of an organization.

So WFG has the cleanest record of any company even close to its size??? SHOW ME THE STATISTICS, and it better be submitted on my desk at 8am, no less than 50 pages with an executive summary.

You help families that don't have money to save, you screw middle class families and take what discretionary income they do have... and you go out of your way to screw the wealthy because that's where the real commissions kick in. (oops that was opinion)

Sales isn't an honorable profession... stick that comment, what the hell is honorable about convincing someone to do something they don't want to do. ***Here's your gold medal

You're pathetic attempt at relating sales to cancer and pace-makers is just amazing... seriously you should do political advertisements (might make even more money!).

Never said recruiting is a "dirty" word moron... yet again you completely take out of context what I said (are you a Republican?). John Hopkins is a bunch of a*******. Yes every reputable firm does it. The point here is YOU ARE CONFUSING YOUR FIRM WITH A REPUTABLE ONE. BIG DIFFERENCE amigo. Don't make that mistake again - such transgressions will not go unpunished (look that word up in the dictionary).

Just to ILLUSTRATE HOW ABSOLUTELY STUPID YOU ARE, slander is spoke, libel is written... LOL, OMG... therefore if you were intelligent first of all, you would have said "stop defaming the people...". Secondly, defamation, specifically libel or slander... in order to actually constitute "defamation", has to be an untrue statement of fact. Guess what stupid, evaluative opinions (which is everything I said)... doesn't make the cut.

Good luck with the shitty career! It feels great to know that even after all this time I'm still incredibly smarter than you.

Guess what! WFG still hasn't started advertising lol

Notice that no intelligent rebuttals have been submitted against my initial lengthy description of the inner workings of WFG. I wonder why that is... could it be possible.... that everything I wrote... was in fact true??

Have a lucious evening!

Notice that no intelligent rebuttals have been submitted against my initial lengthy description of the inner workings of WFG. I wonder why that is... could it be possible.... that everything I wrote... was in fact true??

Have a lucious evening!

Notice that no intelligent rebuttals have been submitted against my initial lengthy description of the inner workings of WFG. I wonder why that is... could it be possible.... that everything I wrote... was in fact true??

Have a lucious evening!

Background Checks?

World Financial Group Glossary of Terms:

"Training session"... aka they will try to rake you over the coals, sign you up and sell you a policy all at once, then get a list of all your friends.

I hope everyone realizes my post as "carmine" included a lot of sarcasm to make this fun... yet it dues get to the point - this company is dangerous and so are it's employees in the way they conduct business. No due diligence whatsoever, no professionalism, no experience and hardly any degrees.

Bottom line, any person with a life insurance license or the like attempting to insure someone that does not need insurance... that's a NO NO! Basically a violation of "ethics".

And to answer your question about the background check. I would be suprised if they actually even conduct one (I know they don't pull credit or verify employment)... b/c let's see my most recent employer I was fired from back at that time (and it wasn't pretty)... as well there were no soft/hard inquiries on any of my credit reports - thus no one checked them.

Further, my point reiterated perfectly about the absolute idiotic take anyone off the street, they have a pulse - let's recruit them philosophy. What would a decent, reputable company want to do with someone that should probably be in jail? Perfect candidate to play around with social security numbers, bank account numbers, lets see all sorts of personal financial information.

Such an individual has no business advising anyone on finances... and quite frankly the majority of their so-called "advisors" whatever, are not even in the middle class bracket.

... kudos on catching all of these crooks in their path.

WFG has approximately 14 "CEO's" lol... how this is possible I don't know. Last time I checked Raffles has 1. Anyway, it's nice to have entertainment like this. You will find that a lot of WFG rep's stay away from investment services because this requires licenses like the Series 6, Series 63... which are considerably more difficult to obtain then a life insurance license. And to let you know how hard the Nevada Life Insurance licensing test is... let's see I stayed up all night the evening before (either doing work for college or drinking), took the test at 7am (i hardly made it driving), and guess what - I passed it. One moron at the site failed it I think 4 times (he was supposedly one of their superstars). Oh my god, their offices are like joining Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints -- look out!

Thanks for the info. My elderly mother is currently the "target" of WFG. I checked out the broker or sales person that my mother has been talking to in NASD.COM and he is not registered at all. I also checked out the Dept. of Corporations (www.my.ca.gov) where he is registered to sell insurance. I tried LexisNexis as you suggested, however, you have to be a law student to access the site.

Anyway, please correct me if I'm wrong, it looks like WFG, in a nutshell, is selling insurance and not investments. I'm making this assumption based on the licensing information research I've done.

Now let me tell you a scenario. Keep in mind that this is very simplistic because this is how my mother explained it to me.

About a 2 weeks ago, she called and told me how her new friend has a great money proposal. The "company" is willing to offer her life insurance policy of $1 million. The company will pay the monthly premiums, give her 2% of the $1 million policy or $20K, in exchange for her making the company the beneficiary. This will make her dream come true of helping her church because she can then give the $20K to the church. Needless to say, my blood pressure went up but I did my due diligence. I called the Calif. Dept of Insurance (CDI) where I was told that although it is legal, it is highly risky because it could potentially create a great liability on her estate trust.

Upon reading a short report from CDI it became clear that the $20 upfront money is really a loan. Additionally, CDI informed me that the insurance company typically has a 2-year window where they can cancel the policy should they find that my mother is not insurable. My mother has a history of cancer, depression, high blood pressure, etc. -- not your typical good candidate.

CDI told me that this type of insurance targets seniors between the ages of 70-80 and I was emabarrassed when I was asked how old my mother is, and I replied "75." I was also told that seniors with real property fit the profiel, at which I also replied that my mother owns several properties.

Fast forward to this morning, I get another call from my mother. Her new friend took her to their meeting yesterday where my mother met the CEO of WFG. She was advised that since her principal residence (thank God she did not tell him that she has other properties) is negative, she should transfer the property to an investment vehicle earning a guaranteed rate of 8%. Then he gave her a magazine article about transferring the property tax free based on Internal Revenue Code 7702A(b).

I checked out IRS.GOV but found it difficult to understand IRC 7702A(b). But from what I was able to surmise, it is about life insurance annuity. If anyone can explain this to me, I'd be grateful.

Back to the CEO, I had her read the entire information on his business card which turned out that he's not the CEO but a "Field Vice Chairman" which in bare-bones business terms is a branch manager. The license number printed on the card checked out to be WFG's license, NOT the so-called chairman's. Although the chairman's individual license checked out to be active, why not list it? Why list WFG?

As a human resource manager, I must concur with you that WFG does not pass the mustard test in declaring their agents as independent contractors. I also must concur that those in the upline positions are legally responsible for the conduct of their downline. If I were ever given the opportunity to work in their HR department, I will have to decline as a matter of principles as well as culpability.

Although my mother is not being recruited to sell, it is obvious that she is a "target." First, by the life insurance offer. Second, by having her put her house up for an investment. I conceded and agreed to go with my mother to the WFG meeting this coming Tuesday. I intend to make it out of there alive and with my mother's financial standing secure.

Since I am ignorant in the insurance, finance, and investment field, I'd appreciate it very much if you could give me some questions to ask. I can pretty much ask logical questions but I need help with specific ones. Hopefully, I don't get thrown out if I ask too many questions. Do you know if they will let me tape record the meeting?

To John from Newhall... I live in Valencia and could have ran into you at Ralph's in Granary Square and all the other local spots. I would never wish on you or my worst enemy what I am going through with WFG and their predatory tactics towards my mother. If your mother and/or father is/are still living, I hope that they do not become preys in their old age. I used to think that my mother is the smartest person I've ever met. She was a school teacher, a single mother, and has done well considering her humble and meager beginning. You never think that they will ever be a prey or a victim... after all they are the people who taught you right from wrong... the smartest ones that you admired and looked up to as a child. But think again, John, think again... there are bad people out there.

Carmine,

Thank you for your insight. I received a call from one of these Marketing Directors who asked me about making an appointment for one of these training sessions for an ex-boyfriend of mine. I told her that I would need to contact my ex because I knew nothing about this whole escapade that this was and would call her back. I read quite intently your post and it is full of information.

After telling her that I actually have no debt, have tons of insurance, a financial planner and would not be needing her or my ex's assistance she invited me to one of these "meetings." I simply told her I didn't have time. However..

I'm wondering just what kind of things they are looking for in this "background check" as this person currently has 2 active misdeamenor warrants, a suspended driver license for a couple of reasons, a horrible DEPLORABLE credit history and a bankruptcy. Exactly what can this individual tell anyone about finances?

didn't read your rebuttal... but this is my conclusion =>

you are a loser, have a nice life

Carmine or Andrew or whatever name you are using today, your inability to respond professionally makes me glad of one thing. You are no longer associating with other WFG rep's and claiming to represent what we stand for, who we are or how we do it better than anyone else.

You are beyond help so this is not meant to rebutt you, but maybe the person who reads it and actually thinks you know what WFG is about. The way you make things up, and tie in only what suits the moment should serve you well, when you get out of NYU Law School. Oh, by the way, back in 8/06 you wrote you know so much about the law because you where accepted as #4 overall ? It's now 4/07 over 8 months since you originally posted this non-sense, what are you doing in Palm Beach 8 months later?

Makes no difference, when people realize as I just did, that Carmine and Andrew are both you, using 2 names, and Andrew not only keeps harping on non-cacausions like you do, but rants about Mormons and JW's(Jehovah's Witnesses) too, well it not only reveals who you are but that this website is a joke as well. They do not keep their own standards of no-profranity, but do not even keep the "no insults" part of their claims.

WFG has the cleanest record of any company that is even close in size to 10,000+ Registered Reps.

We help families , many of whom no one else ever tried to help. We help the middle class become secure and wealthy. We help sophisticated and wealthy clients protect their wealth.

Sales is an honorable profession, while it is only a part of what we do, we make no apologies for being in the most important industry in the world. NOTHING happens until sales happen, pace-makers,cancer,bubble-gum, if someone does not sell it , it is useless to invent it.

"Recruiting" isn't a dirty word, MIT does it, Xerox, Microsoft, John Hopkins also do it. Every reputable firm does it.

If you know so much about WFG go apply and be MR.Ethical, go help families. If not, stop slandering the people who the courage to do so, where you lack it.

First of all, sales doesn't pay you, neither does a college degree (well assuming it wasn't a full ride) usually a degree costs money. Bragging about a degree an MBA at Pepperdine is the equivalent of bragging about a driver's license with one exception (everyone knows what a driver's license is, but Pepperdine, I'm sorry never heard genious.) Sales jobs only pay out when you have the manipulative personality sell-your soul and screw your friends used car mentality... which I'm proud to say I never will have. The fact that you own a collection agency only speaks of ill repute, and I'm sure you have less than 10 employees (don't lie they practically all do).

Secondly, only idiots fret at investing in their future put down the Rich Fred Poor Fred books, they get old, and they are HORRIBLY written.

Third, where in the WORLD are you finding good employees that work for 4 to 7 years without a paycheck? There exists a thing called the Department of Labor, I'm sure they would be interested in meeting you.

Fourth, I never said WFG was a scam, it's basically like one of those highly reputable companies like Enron, WorldCom, lets see, Arthur Anderson... etc. The reason the Securities industry is highly regulated is because it has been plagued by losers.

And... NO I'm not affiliated with a blood sucking insurance company, I work for Four Seasons Hotels & Resorts.

I didn't go to Orlando because I'm from Palm Beach Florida (an island where you would be immediately stopped by the police upon arrival), and guess what, I don't have any desire to be surrounded by non-caucasians posing as friends because what they really want is in my friends circle (again another thing you couldn't possibly fathom).

WFG deals with losers, RARELY high profile clients, where the hell do you get the audacity to say they are the most sophisticated clientele? Let me guess, you think Luxor is a luxurious hotel too.

Ok, back to VUL automatic savings plan... you need to be reported to the SEC, it should ONLY be sold for someone that needs insurance, NO OTHER REASON, it is a life insurance POLICY, NOT AN INVESTMENT IDIOT.

The REAL reason most people don't save is because this is a materialistic bullshit society, even when it's automatic, they still pull money out of the account anyway and thus such garbage businesses like yours flourish. The fact that you would say you get more real world experience at WFG in a month than with an MBA leads me to conclude 1) you have a G.E.D. (maybe diploma)... 2) you never went to college or did and did not finish 3) You're exactly what that garbage company looks for, and you have more flake than Hollywood.

Moron, the entire basis of an MLM is taking advantage of your friends, because guess what, if it was such a frigging great business model and so successful, why don't you start advertising (oh wait a minute like WFG said they would last August and never did.... gee wonder why).

Ok, clearly you work for Fox Television News Network, when did I say it is a pyramid scheme moron. You aren't an independent contractor, you're a ******* idiot. I'm sure the lawyers that work with you got their degree at some bum school.

Cheers.

I've seen these "rip-off reports" since the day I joined WFG (fdba WMA) and typed the name into a search engine, just expecting to locate their home page. I was surprised, at first, because my experience was nothing like what I was reading. I was recruited openly by a brilliant lady who had a Pepperdine MBA and her husband also a College Graduate. They both gravitated and worked in sales because sales pays more than any college degree in the world, if you're a professional. They knew I had owned my own business, a collection agency for 5 years at that time and knew I liked helping people despite the reputation collection agencies have. I knew they were already making serious money so when they mentioned it, I took a serious look and realized that without any employee liability issues, because you do not hire people you "recruit" them, you could grow your business with minimal capital, unlimited free training for yourselves and them, and minimal ongoing overhead. If you decide to "invest" into an office etc. that is usually after you're making enough and an opportunity to grow arises. Unlike the people who posted negative comments, I have owned business's before and realize only employees fret at investing in their future, business owners realize investing now will free me in the future. Actually even good employees have often invested tens of thousands, or hundreds of thousands of dollars in their educttion, worked for free as interns, spent 4-7 years or more before they ever expect to ask you for their first paycheck. As a collection agency owner and a bill collector before that, you are really just a B.S. Meter deciding who is wasting your time, who is serious, who has money and is lying about and could pay but needs to be sued to force them to pay and stop buying Mercedes they can not afford and who couldn't pay even though they might want to. If WFG was a scam I think after 15 minutes I'd have figured it out. I've seen scammers and if I or WFG associates wanted to scam people there are a lot easy ways, especially considering your Registered with NASD,SEC,State etc. It's really odd, that everyone who attacks WFG or Primerica etc. mentions they are not affiliated with an Insurance Co? Why? Odd. Check WFG's record, with 10,000+ agents ,over a million customers, etc. etc. you'd think if we were not legitimate we would have the most complaints etc. we probably have the fewest compared to the number of agents and no one but the NASD,SEC,State Insur Dept's makes money off licensing and actually if you fail to pass your background check which includes a check with the Federal & State Depts of Justice for criminal backgounds, a check for liens and bankruptcies, etc your $100-$199 would be refunded. Considering one of these gentlemen mocks UNLV in one breath and then says in the next he could not go to Orlando,FL in the next because he was attending UNLV summer classes, a good question to ask would be, have you ever paid $100-$200 for a college book and gotten nothing out of it, either because the class was required and/or you just did not apply yourself? Really what got me involved in WFG was the fact if someone had sat down with my mom 20-30 years ago and got her started on investing her life and her kids lives would have been far better financially. Morgan, Merrill, Goldman almost all help people, but WFG has their tools and can help the most sophisticated client and can also help the guy who no one besides WFG would be able to help, the family who has $100- month to put away. Believe me a VUL is not the answer for everyone, some people need term-life more than savings right now, but a VUL on auto-debit creates a automatic savings plan and that same reason some critique it, is the same reason I love it, because the reason most people can't/don't save is because its not automatic. People beware, beware of the case you don't listen to your own experiences, you get more real-world education in a month year with WFG than most MBA's get total. Again having collected bills for 18 years,owned a collection agency (commercial collections ,ie B2B business to business) I've have more real world bus experience and seen more business's deal with something they do not teach in school, and that's how to run a business thats cash strapped and struggling, and now being involved with WFG for 3 years, I think after 3 years I'd have an insight into what a scam might or might not be. Also why would a Pyramid/MLM'r want to take advantage of you and your families and friends, wouldn't they want to get you making more then you do at work so they could scam you forever? Having you out there helping family after family, so they could "scam you" into learning how to create and retain wealth? Really if your friends and families have so little and their such victims, how much could someone take them for anyway? Do the people at the Rip-Off Report who answer the phones make as much as the idea-man? No and rightly so. Isn't a pyramid where everyone on the bottom makes nothing and everyone at the top makes all the money and they won't let you move up? Or does not that sound more like your current job? Unlike your jobs, people who work harder than I at WFG make more and rightfully so, those who do less make less and those who have the employee "take care of me" mentality write illegitimate complaints about legitimate companies on websites like these. Sorry, after 3 years of reading this malarkey I just had to respond once. Ah, that feels better. Good luck with school Carmine, and corporate America, if you ever do get your law degree, send me a resume, our collection agency has 2 in-house attorneys and even though I think we need more financial planners and less attorneys, with all the people being short changed by corporate America, we will never run out debtors in collections, Kurt
PS- (I had to choose an option to post this response and I chose employee because it most closely fit my position, it is inaccurate because I truly am an independent business owner and contractor)

Regarding the whole independent contractor thing... if you go into LexisNexis (academic law database) and search cases against WFG (formerly WMA), you'll notice that in a lot of cases district/supreme courts have held WMA/WFG vicariously liable for the actions of the 'independent contractors'...recognizing that the privision in the membership agreement (which is a contract) is void and unenforceable at law.

If anyone approaches you from WFG and wants to sell you any policies, you can look up their CRD# with the NASD that gives you a lot of information on their personal background, etc., also they publish the 'points' marketing directors, SMD, SEVC, SVC and CEOs make online... which ironically a lot of the ones that you would have thought are making big bucks really aren't.

Further, consider this - there are a lot of people practicing law, high-level government officials ( I won't say names lol ), and other professionally licensed positions that are complete idiots. Even becoming a CPA isn't that big a deal - trust me, any moron can pass the NV life insurance test.

That said, financial services is no different - there are a lot of people that have NO IDEA what they are doing, they don't have any idea what the various provisions and 'disclaimers' in policies mean that they are trying to sell to you, and like anyone else in business... they're probably more concerned with taking as much money as they can from you as opposed to providing you with a meaningful service (even the Ritz can be guilty of that).

What's really funny about these guys is the d****e bag Marketing Directors that grew up poor and don't have any concept of what things cost because they never had money to spend, are now the ones running the WFG branches - bragging about the money they make and making condescending remarks to other people.

One day I was in the Rainbow Office at a meeting and a SMD commented "oh you're just another broke college kid"... which, granted - was probably true... yet then that same broke college kid after they join, the SMD tells them to borrow money (2,000 grand) for plane tickets, etc. to go to Orlando b/c they 'have to'. What kind of f****** advice is that to someone that doesn't have money to put it on someone elses credit card? Oh ya, these guys are 'real' financial professionals.

In their meetings they never talk about anything finance related... basically that's just an afterthought - the focus of what they do is trying to teach you to think that everyone else is wrong, and of course the recruiting - that's the other thing.

I never brought any of my friends to their office and that always bothered them - they want you to start bringing people ASAP... I told them if "this is my business, my reputation is on the line"... "and I'm not comfortable telling a friend to do something or recommending it before I know its worth the time - I'm not wasting their time too". They didn't like that either, like real pyramid schemes, the whole premise behind running their business system is doing everything as fast as possible, that way no one realizes what they got into until well after they have already lightened your wallet by $1,300.

Prudential at least gives you an aptitude test.

Here's another thought - for anyone seriously considering working with WFG... consider this. You become a Branch Office Manager (BOS - series 26)... someone under you has been doing stuff in violation of NASD/SEC - guess what. The person that was engaging in the illegal activity loses their license, so do you and everyone else that was under you. That coupled with the fact that they are pretty much all uneducated morons - this is an Enron scandel just waiting to unravel itself.

Hardly any of them get a series 7 license (b/c that's actually pretty hard to get unlike the 6 and 63). They push a few providers primarily like WRL and INGN (something like that)... 3 years ago the SEC was investigating them and Aegon in some kind of timing scandal - I'm not sure what the results of that were or if it's still pending.

They say a pessimist is a person that looks both ways before they cross the street.

WFG also prides itself in the fact that "what other company's President opens his home to you" like Monte Holm is such a great friggin guy - use your brain... it's the people under him that are making him money; if they all threw in the towel and said "F*** this", that poor guy wouldn't make his mortgage payment.

These guys are like the mormons, Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and the Johovah's Witnesses - they are all crazy... and only someone that is a complete idiot that has no self-identity would be able to stick with their company for the long-term. There has to be a balance between practicality and creativity in any business venture - I'm not the WFG monkies in corporate HQ have any idea what either of those are.

By the way, WFG was founded by the same guy that did Primerica, And Hugh Humphrey or whatever his name has a longstanding reputation of being a scumbag. Anyone in any reputable business remotely relating to finance would tell you to STAY AWAY from multi-level-marketing businesses, which my brother-in-law did (he's a senior consultant for Booze Allen Hamilton).

WFG takes a search and destroy approach in it's business practices - and they use the pre-text of someone being your friend to their advantage. They assume that because they're dealing in a warm market and your friends with someone that is trying to bring you in... you're less likely to say no - just for that reason (b/c that's what real friends do right?). And that's where they corner you, then there are exchange principles and all sorts of other stuff...

All of it is actually pretty amusing to see a bunch of losers with poor complexion and business suits that don't fit or haven't been dry-cleaned acting like they're professionals in the finance industry.

It is a big facade (like the ceilings in Venetian guys - no matter how much you want to believe it... IT IS NOT REAL) - most of them don't make any money or the are making MUCH less then they would want you to beleive... if they were making over $100,000 a year, why are they charging you $10 for a business format system, $5 for this, $10 for name-tag, $5 for pen, $40 for business cards... it's a business expense, why don't they just right it off - they're the ones making big bucks right??? HAHA... the truth can be daunting - ever watch the movie 'boiler room'?

What really upsets me about them is that this isn't some garbage car dealership that trys to screw you out of money on a car - these guys can intentionally and unintentionally screw you out of your life savings with misrepresentations and poor financial advice, b/c they themselves were never properly trained.

Ask them a question and they will probably tell you about the 'Rule of 72' because that's really the only thing any of them know about finance, besides where you sign on the policy.

This is - of course my evaluative opinion.