CHASE MANHATTAN MORGAGE took 11 years of payments and then tells me I have no equity SAN DIEGO California

Homeowner Assistance, formally known as their "loss mitigation" department, has proved useless for myself and three other consumers I am acquainted with, despite the fact that qualifying income was readily available.

Based on my personal understanding and the testimony of others I know who have dealt with them, it works like this:

1) The consumer is instructed via letter or phone to contact Homeowner Assistance for "help." The consumer, after having spent umpteen hours evaluating possible solutions and becoming familiar with them, makes the call and is connected with a front-line clerk (NOT a decision-maker or anyone who is educated on the topic) who is often someone who speaks very little english or who sounds almost like a high school or college kid.

2) The clerk can't/won't discuss any possible alternatives until the consumer applies for the program. This is perfectly fair. The consumer then gathers income and expense information, and forwards it to the clerk. It's about to get good.

3) Approximately one month later, the clerk, or another clerk, contacts the consumer and states that they won't be able to help because the consumer has a "deficit." Say WHAT??? Income less expenses equals FIFTEEN HUNDRED DOLLARS, and you say I have a DEFICIT???????????? The clerk then tells the consumer that he/she has mistated his/her expenses, and that they are actually much greater.

4) When pressed to substantiate the claim, the clerk begins rattling off a list of non-expenses, swearing by the holy grail that they ARE indeed expenses. For example, one such expense could be the monthly note on a car (that you paid 10 years ago and has since been paid off). No facts or figures you can provide will open the clerk's eyes to the fact that your expenses aren't as much as they allege.

5) Next, the consumer does what any other educated consumer would do -- he/she asks the clerk for the name of his/her supervisor or a decision-maker. The request is artfully dodged.

6) Finally, the consumer requests a face-to-face meeting with Chase's decision-makers to discuss possible options for correcting the deficiency -- and even offers to pay for the airline ticket him/herself! This request, too, is artfully dodged.

7) After all is said and done, the consumer, perfectly able to bring and keep the loan current, loses his/her home -- simply because of a front-line clerk who possesses extremely limited knowledge in the area of mortgage banking and has mentality of "the buck stops here, at the bottom of the totem pole, so don't go past me."

And now, an analysis:

First, they are asking consumers for income and expense figures, and then supplying THEIR OWN figures they dug up somewhere. If they supposedly know a person's "true" income and expenses, then why do they bother asking the consumer to provide it? To me, that is circular reasoning. But moreover, even when the consumer provides (and proves) it, the clerk can't stop obsessing over the artificial and outdated figures that they (Chase) dug up from somewhere.

Secondly, they ask the consumer to provide a "contribution" at the time of making application. This is normally acceptable; however, in Chase's case, they do not offer anything in exchange for that contribution. In legal terms, it is called "consideration." If the consumer is subsequently denied assistance (and they most likely will be), the money is not returned. In short, it's good money right out the door.

There are other business and logic issues that pertain to Chase Mortgage's "Homeowner Assistance" program, but this post is already long enough.

If you are encouraged to contact Chase "Homeowner Assistance," I recommend that you do so. However, do not, and I repeat -- do NOT -- abandon any other initiatives you might be taking to stay the foreclosure because, in all probability, you will still have to use them.

Additionally, if you have a business, legal or banking background, do not automatically assume "Homeowner Assistance" will be interested in working with you in an intelligent, business-like manner.

In summary, it is my personal opinion that Chase Mortgage "Homeowner Assistance" blatantly refuses to address REAL problems with REAL people in a BUSINESS-LIKE way. A mortgage is a very serious matter, and a delinquency on the verge of foreclosure needs to be discussed (all options and alternatives) between consumer and decision-maker in person, face-to-face, and in a very business-like manner -- and NOT arguing income/expense figures with some untrained phone clerk.

Homeowner Assistance, formally known as their "loss mitigation" department, has proved useless for myself and three other consumers I am acquainted with, despite the fact that qualifying income was readily available.

Based on my personal understanding and the testimony of others I know who have dealt with them, it works like this:

1) The consumer is instructed via letter or phone to contact Homeowner Assistance for "help." The consumer, after having spent umpteen hours evaluating possible solutions and becoming familiar with them, makes the call and is connected with a front-line clerk (NOT a decision-maker or anyone who is educated on the topic) who is often someone who speaks very little english or who sounds almost like a high school or college kid.

2) The clerk can't/won't discuss any possible alternatives until the consumer applies for the program. This is perfectly fair. The consumer then gathers income and expense information, and forwards it to the clerk. It's about to get good.

3) Approximately one month later, the clerk, or another clerk, contacts the consumer and states that they won't be able to help because the consumer has a "deficit." Say WHAT??? Income less expenses equals FIFTEEN HUNDRED DOLLARS, and you say I have a DEFICIT???????????? The clerk then tells the consumer that he/she has mistated his/her expenses, and that they are actually much greater.

4) When pressed to substantiate the claim, the clerk begins rattling off a list of non-expenses, swearing by the holy grail that they ARE indeed expenses. For example, one such expense could be the monthly note on a car (that you paid 10 years ago and has since been paid off). No facts or figures you can provide will open the clerk's eyes to the fact that your expenses aren't as much as they allege.

5) Next, the consumer does what any other educated consumer would do -- he/she asks the clerk for the name of his/her supervisor or a decision-maker. The request is artfully dodged.

6) Finally, the consumer requests a face-to-face meeting with Chase's decision-makers to discuss possible options for correcting the deficiency -- and even offers to pay for the airline ticket him/herself! This request, too, is artfully dodged.

7) After all is said and done, the consumer, perfectly able to bring and keep the loan current, loses his/her home -- simply because of a front-line clerk who possesses extremely limited knowledge in the area of mortgage banking and has mentality of "the buck stops here, at the bottom of the totem pole, so don't go past me."

And now, an analysis:

First, they are asking consumers for income and expense figures, and then supplying THEIR OWN figures they dug up somewhere. If they supposedly know a person's "true" income and expenses, then why do they bother asking the consumer to provide it? To me, that is circular reasoning. But moreover, even when the consumer provides (and proves) it, the clerk can't stop obsessing over the artificial and outdated figures that they (Chase) dug up from somewhere.

Secondly, they ask the consumer to provide a "contribution" at the time of making application. This is normally acceptable; however, in Chase's case, they do not offer anything in exchange for that contribution. In legal terms, it is called "consideration." If the consumer is subsequently denied assistance (and they most likely will be), the money is not returned. In short, it's good money right out the door.

There are other business and logic issues that pertain to Chase Mortgage's "Homeowner Assistance" program, but this post is already long enough.

If you are encouraged to contact Chase "Homeowner Assistance," I recommend that you do so. However, do not, and I repeat -- do NOT -- abandon any other initiatives you might be taking to stay the foreclosure because, in all probability, you will still have to use them.

Additionally, if you have a business, legal or banking background, do not automatically assume "Homeowner Assistance" will be interested in working with you in an intelligent, business-like manner.

In summary, it is my personal opinion that Chase Mortgage "Homeowner Assistance" blatantly refuses to address REAL problems with REAL people in a BUSINESS-LIKE way. A mortgage is a very serious matter, and a delinquency on the verge of foreclosure needs to be discussed (all options and alternatives) between consumer and decision-maker in person, face-to-face, and in a very business-like manner -- and NOT arguing income/expense figures with some untrained phone clerk.

Homeowner Assistance, formally known as their "loss mitigation" department, has proved useless for myself and three other consumers I am acquainted with, despite the fact that qualifying income was readily available.

Based on my personal understanding and the testimony of others I know who have dealt with them, it works like this:

1) The consumer is instructed via letter or phone to contact Homeowner Assistance for "help." The consumer, after having spent umpteen hours evaluating possible solutions and becoming familiar with them, makes the call and is connected with a front-line clerk (NOT a decision-maker or anyone who is educated on the topic) who is often someone who speaks very little english or who sounds almost like a high school or college kid.

2) The clerk can't/won't discuss any possible alternatives until the consumer applies for the program. This is perfectly fair. The consumer then gathers income and expense information, and forwards it to the clerk. It's about to get good.

3) Approximately one month later, the clerk, or another clerk, contacts the consumer and states that they won't be able to help because the consumer has a "deficit." Say WHAT??? Income less expenses equals FIFTEEN HUNDRED DOLLARS, and you say I have a DEFICIT???????????? The clerk then tells the consumer that he/she has mistated his/her expenses, and that they are actually much greater.

4) When pressed to substantiate the claim, the clerk begins rattling off a list of non-expenses, swearing by the holy grail that they ARE indeed expenses. For example, one such expense could be the monthly note on a car (that you paid 10 years ago and has since been paid off). No facts or figures you can provide will open the clerk's eyes to the fact that your expenses aren't as much as they allege.

5) Next, the consumer does what any other educated consumer would do -- he/she asks the clerk for the name of his/her supervisor or a decision-maker. The request is artfully dodged.

6) Finally, the consumer requests a face-to-face meeting with Chase's decision-makers to discuss possible options for correcting the deficiency -- and even offers to pay for the airline ticket him/herself! This request, too, is artfully dodged.

7) After all is said and done, the consumer, perfectly able to bring and keep the loan current, loses his/her home -- simply because of a front-line clerk who possesses extremely limited knowledge in the area of mortgage banking and has mentality of "the buck stops here, at the bottom of the totem pole, so don't go past me."

And now, an analysis:

First, they are asking consumers for income and expense figures, and then supplying THEIR OWN figures they dug up somewhere. If they supposedly know a person's "true" income and expenses, then why do they bother asking the consumer to provide it? To me, that is circular reasoning. But moreover, even when the consumer provides (and proves) it, the clerk can't stop obsessing over the artificial and outdated figures that they (Chase) dug up from somewhere.

Secondly, they ask the consumer to provide a "contribution" at the time of making application. This is normally acceptable; however, in Chase's case, they do not offer anything in exchange for that contribution. In legal terms, it is called "consideration." If the consumer is subsequently denied assistance (and they most likely will be), the money is not returned. In short, it's good money right out the door.

There are other business and logic issues that pertain to Chase Mortgage's "Homeowner Assistance" program, but this post is already long enough.

If you are encouraged to contact Chase "Homeowner Assistance," I recommend that you do so. However, do not, and I repeat -- do NOT -- abandon any other initiatives you might be taking to stay the foreclosure because, in all probability, you will still have to use them.

Additionally, if you have a business, legal or banking background, do not automatically assume "Homeowner Assistance" will be interested in working with you in an intelligent, business-like manner.

In summary, it is my personal opinion that Chase Mortgage "Homeowner Assistance" blatantly refuses to address REAL problems with REAL people in a BUSINESS-LIKE way. A mortgage is a very serious matter, and a delinquency on the verge of foreclosure needs to be discussed (all options and alternatives) between consumer and decision-maker in person, face-to-face, and in a very business-like manner -- and NOT arguing income/expense figures with some untrained phone clerk.

Homeowner Assistance, formally known as their "loss mitigation" department, has proved useless for myself and three other consumers I am acquainted with, despite the fact that qualifying income was readily available.

Based on my personal understanding and the testimony of others I know who have dealt with them, it works like this:

1) The consumer is instructed via letter or phone to contact Homeowner Assistance for "help." The consumer, after having spent umpteen hours evaluating possible solutions and becoming familiar with them, makes the call and is connected with a front-line clerk (NOT a decision-maker or anyone who is educated on the topic) who is often someone who speaks very little english or who sounds almost like a high school or college kid.

2) The clerk can't/won't discuss any possible alternatives until the consumer applies for the program. This is perfectly fair. The consumer then gathers income and expense information, and forwards it to the clerk. It's about to get good.

3) Approximately one month later, the clerk, or another clerk, contacts the consumer and states that they won't be able to help because the consumer has a "deficit." Say WHAT??? Income less expenses equals FIFTEEN HUNDRED DOLLARS, and you say I have a DEFICIT???????????? The clerk then tells the consumer that he/she has mistated his/her expenses, and that they are actually much greater.

4) When pressed to substantiate the claim, the clerk begins rattling off a list of non-expenses, swearing by the holy grail that they ARE indeed expenses. For example, one such expense could be the monthly note on a car (that you paid 10 years ago and has since been paid off). No facts or figures you can provide will open the clerk's eyes to the fact that your expenses aren't as much as they allege.

5) Next, the consumer does what any other educated consumer would do -- he/she asks the clerk for the name of his/her supervisor or a decision-maker. The request is artfully dodged.

6) Finally, the consumer requests a face-to-face meeting with Chase's decision-makers to discuss possible options for correcting the deficiency -- and even offers to pay for the airline ticket him/herself! This request, too, is artfully dodged.

7) After all is said and done, the consumer, perfectly able to bring and keep the loan current, loses his/her home -- simply because of a front-line clerk who possesses extremely limited knowledge in the area of mortgage banking and has mentality of "the buck stops here, at the bottom of the totem pole, so don't go past me."

And now, an analysis:

First, they are asking consumers for income and expense figures, and then supplying THEIR OWN figures they dug up somewhere. If they supposedly know a person's "true" income and expenses, then why do they bother asking the consumer to provide it? To me, that is circular reasoning. But moreover, even when the consumer provides (and proves) it, the clerk can't stop obsessing over the artificial and outdated figures that they (Chase) dug up from somewhere.

Secondly, they ask the consumer to provide a "contribution" at the time of making application. This is normally acceptable; however, in Chase's case, they do not offer anything in exchange for that contribution. In legal terms, it is called "consideration." If the consumer is subsequently denied assistance (and they most likely will be), the money is not returned. In short, it's good money right out the door.

There are other business and logic issues that pertain to Chase Mortgage's "Homeowner Assistance" program, but this post is already long enough.

If you are encouraged to contact Chase "Homeowner Assistance," I recommend that you do so. However, do not, and I repeat -- do NOT -- abandon any other initiatives you might be taking to stay the foreclosure because, in all probability, you will still have to use them.

Additionally, if you have a business, legal or banking background, do not automatically assume "Homeowner Assistance" will be interested in working with you in an intelligent, business-like manner.

In summary, it is my personal opinion that Chase Mortgage "Homeowner Assistance" blatantly refuses to address REAL problems with REAL people in a BUSINESS-LIKE way. A mortgage is a very serious matter, and a delinquency on the verge of foreclosure needs to be discussed (all options and alternatives) between consumer and decision-maker in person, face-to-face, and in a very business-like manner -- and NOT arguing income/expense figures with some untrained phone clerk.

All you need to do is apply for Homeowners Assistance, call 1-800-848-9136 and advise them you want to apply if you have an FHA mortgage they can take your income/expenses by phone and start the application process. If your mortgage is with another investor they will take minimal information and you then will be contacted by someone at Chase who will have you send them paycheck stubs, bank statements, tax return, ect. You will be expected to pay outstanding attorney fees, late fees and other misc. fees if you qualify to have your mortgage modified. Your payments will increase due to delinquent int. and escrow will be added into the principle balance of your loan. As for your payment changing when you have a fixed interest loan. It is your escrow which changes; each year the mortgage companies are required to analyze your escrow account, if they collect too little or too much they need to change the payment. The escrow account pays for your taxes and insurance. This is not Chase changing your payment but making sure everything necessary to maintain your property is being paid as it should. Contact Chase and advise them you want to save your home. This is the first thing you need to do and if you are contacted by outside companies requesting payment you do not need them, you can do this yourself. Anything Chase will ask depends on what your investor requires. Good Luck.

All you need to do is apply for Homeowners Assistance, call 1-800-848-9136 and advise them you want to apply if you have an FHA mortgage they can take your income/expenses by phone and start the application process. If your mortgage is with another investor they will take minimal information and you then will be contacted by someone at Chase who will have you send them paycheck stubs, bank statements, tax return, ect. You will be expected to pay outstanding attorney fees, late fees and other misc. fees if you qualify to have your mortgage modified. Your payments will increase due to delinquent int. and escrow will be added into the principle balance of your loan. As for your payment changing when you have a fixed interest loan. It is your escrow which changes; each year the mortgage companies are required to analyze your escrow account, if they collect too little or too much they need to change the payment. The escrow account pays for your taxes and insurance. This is not Chase changing your payment but making sure everything necessary to maintain your property is being paid as it should. Contact Chase and advise them you want to save your home. This is the first thing you need to do and if you are contacted by outside companies requesting payment you do not need them, you can do this yourself. Anything Chase will ask depends on what your investor requires. Good Luck.

All you need to do is apply for Homeowners Assistance, call 1-800-848-9136 and advise them you want to apply if you have an FHA mortgage they can take your income/expenses by phone and start the application process. If your mortgage is with another investor they will take minimal information and you then will be contacted by someone at Chase who will have you send them paycheck stubs, bank statements, tax return, ect. You will be expected to pay outstanding attorney fees, late fees and other misc. fees if you qualify to have your mortgage modified. Your payments will increase due to delinquent int. and escrow will be added into the principle balance of your loan. As for your payment changing when you have a fixed interest loan. It is your escrow which changes; each year the mortgage companies are required to analyze your escrow account, if they collect too little or too much they need to change the payment. The escrow account pays for your taxes and insurance. This is not Chase changing your payment but making sure everything necessary to maintain your property is being paid as it should. Contact Chase and advise them you want to save your home. This is the first thing you need to do and if you are contacted by outside companies requesting payment you do not need them, you can do this yourself. Anything Chase will ask depends on what your investor requires. Good Luck.

All you need to do is apply for Homeowners Assistance, call 1-800-848-9136 and advise them you want to apply if you have an FHA mortgage they can take your income/expenses by phone and start the application process. If your mortgage is with another investor they will take minimal information and you then will be contacted by someone at Chase who will have you send them paycheck stubs, bank statements, tax return, ect. You will be expected to pay outstanding attorney fees, late fees and other misc. fees if you qualify to have your mortgage modified. Your payments will increase due to delinquent int. and escrow will be added into the principle balance of your loan. As for your payment changing when you have a fixed interest loan. It is your escrow which changes; each year the mortgage companies are required to analyze your escrow account, if they collect too little or too much they need to change the payment. The escrow account pays for your taxes and insurance. This is not Chase changing your payment but making sure everything necessary to maintain your property is being paid as it should. Contact Chase and advise them you want to save your home. This is the first thing you need to do and if you are contacted by outside companies requesting payment you do not need them, you can do this yourself. Anything Chase will ask depends on what your investor requires. Good Luck.

"Bargain buyers" like "JESUS" from Florida are strictly in it for money. Period. They buy low and sell high and that's the only thing that matters. It is after all the American way. They realize that homeowners facing a foreclosure are in an "emotionally charged" state. People in this state are easy prey for rip-offs.

There are two classes of bargain buyers. The first kind is upfront about what they do, they want to buy your house and sell it immediately to someone else. These are the better ones. Of course if you deal with them you will give up the house. They say taking their deal will help your credit rating compared to having a foreclosure, which may be true, *if* they honestly follow through with the deal. But realize they are pure capitalists, and they aren't going to take money out of their pockets just to help someone else's credit rating. Anything they say about being "helpful" is just to play on your emotions. You need to negoitate strongly to get the best possible price.

These people go to foreclosure sales too. They aren't going to pay much more for your house than what they think they could buy it for at the foreclosure sale. So really in terms of keeping more equity these guys won't help you much. They may also be totally dishonest and are just trying to get a close look at your house and see what it's worth bidding for at the foreclosure sale. They also could be stringing you along to prevent you from selling the house to someone else before the foreclosure.

The other kind of bargain buyers say they will let you keep your house by buying it and then renting it back to you. That is not what happens, because they are all total criminal scum. What they actually do is buy the house for the amount owed and pay off the mortgage. They are looking for houses that are worth much more than the amount owed. Then they set the rent so high that the occupants can't afford to stay there. The rent is higher than the mortgage payments that they couldn't pay. In a couple of months they evict the previous owner and sell the house for full price to someone else. ACORN is trying to crack down hard on these operations.

If you want to keep the house, it'll take money. Maybe by defaulting on other debts and/or declaring bankruptcy there will be enough. As soon as it's apparent that loss of income may be a permanent thing, homeowners must make a plan and act on it. The best option may be to sell the house. Selling it early will get the best price. Of course never tell buyers that you're desperate to sell. By the time foreclosure is announced, it's too late for that. The bargain buyers work that to their full advantage.

In your response to Cynthia, you mentioned three ways to stop/put off or otherwise delay her foreclosure. You also told her to ignore the letters she might receive from companies or individuals offering to help her with her predicament.

I am one of those individuals who might have sent her a letter if she lived in my area. You sir have obviously never been foreclosed on and don't understand how emotionally charged and difficult it can be for home owners.

The first thing I tell my clients is that the best possible thing they can do is just pay what they owe, Most of them can not. The next thing they can do, which you failed to mention and prompted this response, is sell the house.
An owner can sell his property while it is in foreclosure right up until the day it is to be auctioned on the courthouse steps. If you don't fool around, you can save some or all of the equity you have built.

Most people in foreclosure ignore this possibility until it is too late. That is where I come in. My company does not prey on individuals in hard times. We help. I put cash in the pockets of my clients and buy their homes from them fast. No, they don't get the full benefit of their equity. But they also don't get foreclosed on and have their credit ruined!
Realestate investors help millions of people out of this predicament every year and to lump us all in as swindlers and thieves is slander.

If Cynthia follows your advice, she will surely lose her house unless she makes up the back payments or sells.

This is not the first time I have heard that story about Chase and it probably won't be the last. As an independent consumer advocate and debt counselor, I hear and investigate all sorts of debt and collection-related matters. You are in a bind, no doubt, but rest assured that many others are as well. But, that's not the reason for my response. Here are a few observations and tips:

- Since they used the term "reinstatement," this indicates that the property is ALREADY in the foreclosure process, most likely administered by Wilson and Associates, a foreclosure firm based out of Arkansas. They are not "bad" themselves -- they're just doing their job as Chase directs them.

- The reinstatement amount includes a) the amount past due, including late fees, b) the foreclosure attorney's fees, c) the foreclosure sale publication fees, and d) any related service-of-process fees.

- As you can see, most of these are one-time amounts. However, the past-due amount and late fees continue accruing each month. Therefore, the reinstatement fee will ALWAYS increase.

- I have a hard time understanding that they said you have NO equity in your home. Equity is the difference between what the home is worth and what is owing on it. As a word of caution: you DO stand to lose all the equity in your home if the foreclosure is completed.

And finally, you have three (3) options for saving your home (in the order of best to worst):

1) Finding the money and paying the reinstatement fee.

2) Filing for Chapter 13 bankruptcy. This will halt the foreclosure as long as you are able to make the REGULAR monthly payments. As for the arrearage (past-due amount), it will be divided over 24 months and you'll pay a small portion each month to catch it up.

3) Approaching a sub-prime lender such as Household or Fairbanks, and taking out a "home equity loan" to pay the reinstatement OR refinance the Chase mortgage altogether. Warning: You will be paying a higher interest rate; your interest will be compounded daily instead of monthly; and the loan's term will generally be only 15 years. Another warning: These companies are predatory lenders and have lots of complaints, suits, etc.

There is also the option of serving the forclosing attorney with a debt validation letter as prescribed by the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. This places an automatic stay on collection activity (foreclosure IS a collection activity) until the collector provides you with validation of the debt. Remember: If someone (ANYONE) says you "owe" something, they HAVE to prove it if you call them on it. Warning: This does NOT relieve you of liability for the debt OR permanently stop the foreclosure action -- it merely buys you some time. And, should they continue with collection activity AFTER your validation letter and WITHOUT providing VALIDATION, you would have a legal cause of action against them in US District (Federal) Court for $1,000 in statutory damages.

Another thing to watch out for are "bargain home buyers." It works like this: Once the notice of your impending foreclosure becomes public record, you will receive on the order of 30-40 letters per week (for a couple of weeks) from people and companies wanting to "buy" your house or give you an instant solution to your foreclosure problem. Avoid them like the plague, no matter how often they contact you OR how many "live checks" they send you through the mail. I conducted an investigation of several such companies last year -- nothing good. Also, NONE had valid street addresses; all of their phones were set to anonymous call reject; all had unlisted phone numbers; and most were doing business under fictious names that were not registered with the Secretary of State. Any of the preceding things is an automatic red flag for a business.

So, where does all of this leave us?

In the end, it all comes down to one question:

"How important is it to save your home; and how far are you willing to go?"

By the way, I don't live very far from Dickson myself (about 10 mins). It's a sweet place to live.... so stand up and FIGHT for that house!

Good luck in your case.