GEORGE BUSH, U.S. FEDERAL GOVERNMENT RIP-OFF SCAM ARTISTS THIEVES LIARS AND PROVOKERS OF WAR NO MORE BU--SH--! WASHINGTON D.C. MARYLAND

Please feel free to give us an update to your Ripoff Report when you get a chance. Thanks.

was submitted several hours ago at this website.

It was submitted in the consumer comments section at Ripoff Report #684178, but it hasn't been posted yet.

Just type in 684178 at this site to see if it is available later today or tomorrow. If it isn't posted by 11:00 AM EST on October 26, 2011, it will be submitted again.

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***BANK ALERT: Don't forget to type in all of the following at this site and read the Ripoff Reports for valuable information if you have a bank account in the USA-

BANK OF AMERICA
WELLS FARGO
CHASE
CITIBANK
US BANK
ONE WEST BANK
WACHOVIA
FIFTH THIRD
ALLY
JP MORGAN
BANK

is available at this website!

Just type in 581744 at this site and it appears in the consumer comments section at Ripoff Report #581744.

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***TOP SECRET GOVERNMENT ALERT: Do not stay at this site and type in- US GOVERNMENT, and read any of the Ripoff Reports.

is available at this website!

*Just type in 646259 and it appears as 'Consumer Comment #73' at Ripoff Report #646259.

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is only available at this website!

*Just type in 476868 and it appears as 'Consumer Comment #5' at Ripoff Report #476868.

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HAPPY NEW YEAR

and "CESSPOOL OF LIES POEM 2" are both available at this website.

*Just type in 646259 and they both appear in the consumer comments section at Ripoff Report #646259.

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MERRY CHRISTMAS!

was submitted at this site earlier today in the consumer comments section at Ripoff Report #411913.

where it is posted in the consumer comments section at Ripoff Report #411913.

if I'm not mistaken, right?

is available at the BANK OF AMERICA page of this site. It appears as a comment to one of the Ripoff Reports.

NEVER FOUND IN IRAQ.

Republicans have ruined enough people In alabama, they are not fair with unemployment, workers rights. They have given employers the right to lie & ruin your careers.

They treat you like you are nothing, they want to ruin you. Well john should not had said his ignorant comment.


But the stupid people of alabama keep voting republican, I still don't see how republicans help make their lives better. They never have helped mine except made everything worse.

I'm not sure who you are, but you have obviously misunderstood the reason for this site. It is not to spew you anti-Bush, anti-American, extreme liberal viewpoints. It is to safeguard people against getting ripped off by scam artists.

If you would like to spew you socialistic garbage, start a blog. You are free to believe whatever you want, it's you second ammendment right, but not on this site. I am appalled that the web master didn't just delete this. Come on.

Charles is here from the RED state of alabama.

Bush did the samething. He went back on all of his promises. But nobody never has said anything about that.

Obama has to date, reneged on 100% of his campaign promises. That's right folks...he has gone 180 degrees from everything he said he would do.

The funny part is, the people who voted for him are the ones who are getting shafted first...just like when Clinton was first elected.

We'll all suffer, but at least 48% of us knew how REALITY works.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!

How was people able to vote for palin. She wasn't running for president. She Is like most republicans. Doesn't care about the people.

I am not a Bush fan because of his outlook on the illegal alien situation and his lack of concern for LEGAL AMERICAN CITIZENS. He is a typical politician. I am not a McCain fan for the same reasons. I did, however, vote for Governor Palin. I would rather have a legal, native born citizen as President of the United States of America than a socialistic, non-Native born, hate-America and her LIBERTIES flunkie like Hussein Obama ( i.e. "Barry").

Its the same old buy sung from the gop agenda. They cannot stand to lose, so what else If for them to do. They whine like babies.

Republicans do not care about americans. Republicans want to punish us the american people & take everything away from us. Rush limpballs Is a liar to.

The republican party has changed sense bush has been elected, they have ruined this country with all there trash talk. And telling people who to vote for.

THIS IS THE SAME SONG THAT HAS BEEN SUNG BY LIBERALS SINCE THE DAWN OF TIME. FACT IS THERE ARE JUST AS MANY OR MORE RICH LIBERALS...KENNEDY, KERRY, DASHEL ETC.... ALSO THE OIL ANGLE HAS BEEN PLAYED OUT FAR TOO LONG AND STILL RINGS AS A LIE. WE ARE TAKING NO OIL OUT OF IRAQ ALMOST 6YRS LATER OR OUT OF KUWAIT. PLUS THE COMMENT ABOUT IRAQ CITIZENS QUACKING IN THERE BOOTS IS ONLY POSSIBLE FROM SOME TWIT WHO HAS NEVER BEEN IN SWA. FEAR IS HARDLY AND OPTION FOR THESE PEOPLE. I HAVE SPENT 4 TOURS IN SWA AND THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT FEARFUL IN THE LEAST. BUT AS USUAL YOU HAVE PEOPLE WHO COMMENT REGARDLESS OF THE TRUTH BECAUSE THEY UNDERSTAND THAT MOST PEOPLE BELIEVE WHAT THEY HEAR OR READ AND WILL NOT CHECK THE FACTS. I DO CHALLENGE THE AUTHOR TO SHOW ONE SHRED OF PROOF ABOUT HIS VERSION OF THIS BEING DONE FOR OIL PROFITS OR SADAM BEING ONLY NOT A NICE GUY.

Me a liar I don't think so. Nothing you accuse me of bothers me, because you do this to everybody here on rip-off report.

Because none of it is true, I don't know you & you do not know me. So keep on posting lies about me john you are only wasting your time. Because nothing you say scares me.


I will have to warn people about you john, who files complaints. Because he will post lies about them & call them liars & deadbeats. I know the truth he or anyone else does not know the truth.


John & other people do everything they can to keep me quiet, but I will not keep quiet.


I will continue to expose lying businesses & employers. So keep talking john & this Is to everybody else on this website. And I am being treated very unfairly.


I am nither a fraud or a deatbeat, just a ticked off consumer who Is tired of being taken advantage of.

since you promised to leave us in your fraudulent schneider report.
Why do you insist that you can play with the adults here?

'I don't have to leave.'

>> You promised to. That procves once again you are a liar.

'I have every right to be here, & none of my complaints are fraudlent.'

>> They have been proven time and time again that they are not. You post as your mommy and like you have information when you were not even there. That makes you a fraud and any reports you have posted fraudulent.

'You are violating my rights.'

>> No, no I'm not. You know absolutely NOTHING, much less anything about 'rights'. I can point out anyone's fraud and lies that I want to. I can't wait for the new law to get passed that will allow for suing people like you for your lies and fraud. Then, you'll finally have l to leave like everyone wants you to.

'I have every right to post In any complaint I wish just like the crap you post.'

>> But you post on this very site that others can not post in certain reports. What makes you any better than someone who is actually educated? And why do you insist on stealing?

'And I will continue to report wrong doings buy bad businesses & lying employers.'

>> When are you actually going to start? YOU have never dealt with 'bad business' nor have you ever been employed.

'So deal with It.'

>> Yes, you do need to deal with begin exposed time and time again.

'And this will be my last response to you.'

>> No it won't . You have already proven this to be another of your many lies.

'I will continue to post regardless If you call me a deadbeat or fraud.'

>> Of course you will as I will continue to expose your lies and fraud.

'Which I am not the only consumer you harass here on rip-off report, you have accused other posters of being deadbeat & frauds.'

>> Why do you continue to lie and not provide one shred of proof to this accusation as I have asked for months to see now? Because it's another lie - that's why.

'And I do not care what people think.'

>> Another lie or you would just go away like everyone wants you to.

- How can you have any credit card at all if you have no money like you claim in all the collection reports you crap in?
- How can you afford a computer to perpetrate your fraud with if you have no money like you claim in the collection reports you pollute?
- How can you afford an internet connection to perpetrate your fraud if you allegedly have no money as you claim?
- How can you afford an attorney for all these alleged lawsuits you claim to be filing if you have no money like you claim?
- Why did you get a cellphone you knew you couldn't afford when you have no money as you claim?
- Why haven't you paid the people you have owed money to for a long time?
- How can you afford a vehicle to go out and cause accidents in if you allegedly have no money?
- How can you afford the exorbitant insurance from the accidents you cause in the vehicle you shouldn't be able to afford if you have no money as you claim in the collection report?
- How can you be buying your panties and dresses off QVC if you have no money?
- When are you going to apologize for lying to Steve as was proven about allegedly not being on some sort of meds? Or are you not on meds? Which is the lie?
- When are you finally going to leave us like you promised in your fraudulent schneider report so that isn't also one of your many lies?
- When are you finally going to answer the legitimate questions asked of you?

since you promised to leave us in your fraudulent schneider report.Why do you insist that you can play with the adults here?

- How can you have any credit card at all if you have no money like you claim in all the collection reports you crap in?
- How can you afford a computer to perpetrate your fraud with if you have no money like you claim in the collection reports you pollute?
- How can you afford an internet connection to perpetrate your fraud if you allegedly have no money as you claim?
- How can you afford an attorney for all these alleged lawsuits you claim to be filing if you have no money like you claim?
- Why did you get a cellphone you knew you couldn't afford when you have no money as you claim?
- Why haven't you paid the people you have owed money to for a long time?
- How can you afford a vehicle to go out and cause accidents in if you allegedly have no money?
- How can you afford the exorbitant insurance from the accidents you cause in the vehicle you shouldn't be able to afford if you have no money as you claim in the collection report?
- How can you be buying your panties and dresses off QVC if you have no money?
- When are you going to apologize for lying to Steve as was proven about allegedly not being on some sort of meds? Or are you not on meds? Which is the lie?
- When are you finally going to leave us like you promised in your fraudulent schneider report so that isn't also one of your many lies?
- When are you finally going to answer the legitimate questions asked of you?

I don't have to leave. I have every right to be here, & none of my complaints are fraudlent.


You are violating my rights. I have every right to post In any complaint I wish just like the crap you post.


And I will continue to report wrong doings buy bad businesses & lying employers.


So deal with It. And this will be my last response to you. I will continue to post regardless If you call me a deadbeat or fraud.


Which I am not the only consumer you harass here on rip-off report, you have accused other posters of being deadbeat & frauds.

And I do not care what people think.

I don't have to leave. I have every right to be here, & none of my complaints are fraudlent.


You are violating my rights. I have every right to post In any complaint I wish just like the crap you post.


And I will continue to report wrong doings buy bad businesses & lying employers.


So deal with It. And this will be my last response to you. I will continue to post regardless If you call me a deadbeat or fraud.


Which I am not the only consumer you harass here on rip-off report, you have accused other posters of being deadbeat & frauds.

And I do not care what people think.

I don't have to leave. I have every right to be here, & none of my complaints are fraudlent.


You are violating my rights. I have every right to post In any complaint I wish just like the crap you post.


And I will continue to report wrong doings buy bad businesses & lying employers.


So deal with It. And this will be my last response to you. I will continue to post regardless If you call me a deadbeat or fraud.


Which I am not the only consumer you harass here on rip-off report, you have accused other posters of being deadbeat & frauds.

And I do not care what people think.

I don't have to leave. I have every right to be here, & none of my complaints are fraudlent.


You are violating my rights. I have every right to post In any complaint I wish just like the crap you post.


And I will continue to report wrong doings buy bad businesses & lying employers.


So deal with It. And this will be my last response to you. I will continue to post regardless If you call me a deadbeat or fraud.


Which I am not the only consumer you harass here on rip-off report, you have accused other posters of being deadbeat & frauds.

And I do not care what people think.

And stop stealing our tax money.
Why do you insist that you can play with the adults here?

- How can you have any credit card at all if you have no money like you claim in all the collection reports you crap in?
- How can you afford a computer to perpetrate your fraud with if you have no money like you claim in the collection reports you pollute?
- How can you afford an internet connection to perpetrate your fraud if you allegedly have no money as you claim?
- How can you afford an attorney for all these alleged lawsuits you claim to be filing if you have no money like you claim?
- Why did you get a cellphone you knew you couldn't afford when you have no money as you claim?
- Why haven't you paid the people you have owed money to for a long time?
- How can you afford a vehicle to go out and cause accidents in if you allegedly have no money?
- How can you afford the exorbitant insurance from the accidents you cause in the vehicle you shouldn't be able to afford if you have no money as you claim in the collection report?
- How can you be buying your panties and dresses off QVC if you have no money?
- When are you going to apologize for lying to Steve as was proven about allegedly not being on some sort of meds? Or are you not on meds? Which is the lie?
- When are you finally going to leave us like you promised in your fraudulent schneider report so that isn't also one of your many lies?
- When are you finally going to answer the legitimate questions asked of you?

Palin loves to talk about other people & bash them, but when the heat Is on them they do not like It. The palin family gets mad & blast people when they get talked about.


It seems they can dish It out but they can't take It. People sure can trash talk other people, but don't dare say anything about the palin family, you will pay the price.


I am so glad mccain & palin did not win. Palin really hates obama & democrats know, HAHA.

Another mis-informed, under educated consumer. How many American citizens had to die because of the actions taken by Bush? A few contractors. Obama and his weak knee'd tactics of putting our country down overseas? Probably many, he's a wimp, therefore, not good for consumers. Most people who opposed the war can't even spell "Saddam Hussein," let alone understand why we had to go over there and take a good look for ourselves to see if there were any nuclear programs in process, after all, he had months to hide or destroy anything incriminating. Slant oil rigs? That's nuts, no one would let that happen, after all, Margaret Thatcher, for those who don't remember, or probably were 2 years old at the time, was the one who convinced Bush Sr. to get the coalition together.

Also, since you're soooo uninformed, I'll just leave you with this; Bush was in the oil business when oil was a bust, the mid-eighties. He made his money buying part of the Texas Rangers. None of those people made money off the war; they had plenty going into office. You obviously have no education; the chem lab at an average university can produce enough chem./bio. weapons to take out quite a bit of a large city. Once you have the recipe, (he did use them before), you can, at anytime, make more. You're a disgrace to your country, go live in N. Korea or Russia. Then, you will see that your comments about my countries interests in providing for the consumer had nothing to do with paranoid delusions.

Also, you do this fine service a very bad dis-service by posting idiotic, left-wing propaganda that hasn't been heard and ignored before, (the main reason for this rebuttle), which is for consumers of products/services, here in the US to keep people from getting ripped off from "companies," not the government, which I'm proudly serving.

The President, House nor Senate have control over the economy Wall Street does your idiot!!
Thanks to sub prime lending that sent the stock market into a tailspin

Any idiot who took Economics 101 would know that - ohhh sorry you did not even get through High School
Grow up Charles - Bush nor Clinton nor Reagan ruined the economy Wall Street did
( there was a little matter in the 80s called the S and L scandal much like the sub prime scandal)
I suggest you brush up on your history

Of course john still fails to see bush ruined the economy. He just wants to give me a hardtime. Bush deserves no credit we will be paying the price for a long time because of bush and cheney.

Because of stupid people like john & the rest of the people who elected george w bush & re-elected him In 2004 to send there kids of to iraq to be killed or disabled for the rest of there life.

I voted for obama & I will vote for him again In 4 years. John doesn't hold bush or the republicans accountable for anything. I don't care what john says!.

Then 'Google' this- THE SCORE BY RUDY STANKO, and read the 3 reviews on that book! Pay close attention to the American FLAG on the cover of that book too!!!

Then 'Google' this- DR MANDELSTAMM OF KIEFF, and read his quote in its entirety which is on 'Page 94' of that passage that starts on 'Page 88'. READ THE ENTIRE PASSAGE TOO!!!

It seems obvious that the WAR in Iraq was simply a WAR between the FEDERAL RESERVE and the Arabs, or MUSLIMS living in the Mideast, wouldn't you agree? Oil was also a reason too, right? The FEDERAL RESERVE is a private corporation owned by a 'cartel' of BANKERS, according to the documentary entitled- 'America: Freedom to Fascism'.

WHO set the rate at 1% back in 2003? Answer: The FEDERAL RESERVE!

WHO suffered as a result of MILLIONS of MORTGAGES that were either A.R.M.'s or Interest Only Mortgages that have gone into FORECLOSURE since 2003? Answer: The American people, and the ENTIRE WORLD, correct? HOW were these mortgages possible? By LOWERING the RATE to 1%, correct?

WHO made MILLIONS, TENS of MILLIONS, HUNDREDS of MILLIONS, and even BILLIONS of dollars as a result of the MORTGAGE MESS? Answer: Bankers & Investment Bankers, correct? The stock market flourished during this ARTIFICIAL ECONOMY that was a result of LOW INTEREST RATES set by the FED, right?

WHO are they? Hmm, Perhaps- Bear Stearns, Lehman, Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, BlackRock Inc., Merrill Lynch............., correct?

YOU BE THE JUDGE!

QUOTE: 'The truth was obscure, too profound and too pure; to live it you have to EXPLODE!' - Dylan

FACT: Americans have LOST $2 TRILLION in their RETIREMENT ACCOUNTS, IRA's, & 401K's, since the summer of 2007!

THEORY: The rest of Americans RETIREMENTS, IRA's, 401K's, & other investments will DISAPPEAR in 2009!

WHY?

Answer: 'We're only a PAWN in their GAME!' - Dylan

I'm Karl, and I approve this Update!

P.S. Don't forget to 'Google' this- RIP OFF REPORT #271454, and read the 1st Update to Betty's Ripoff Report. QUOTE: 'The collapse of the U.S. economy is in its infancy. Get all of your money out of the stock market and cash in your retirement NOW! Most people cannot see what is coming I do! Americans have $4 Trillion in their.........' 9-3-2007. (IT CAME TRUE, didn't it?)

Also 'Google' this- RIP OFF REPORT #261157, and read the Update entitled- 'SUGGESTION' that was posted on 7-16-2007. Look what was stated about 401K's & the Dow Jones! (IT CAME TRUE, didn't it?)

Then 'Google' this- RIP OFF REPORT #269041, and read what a Harvard Business Professor said to his class in late 2004. It's in the Update entitled- 'Blame it on a Lawyer'. This was posted on 8-21-2007. (IT CAME TRUE, didn't it?)

GO HARVARD!

Charles is not willing to prove his own facts. Again charles, which of the above vetoes ruined the economy as you claim. Isn't it funny how George bush had far less vetoes then yoiur buddy Bill Clinton who did actually ruin the economy.

Why don't you give Bush some credit because this country hasn't been attacked for since 2001 (oi thanks to the Dems in congress who were against him all the way).

Charles will respond with some more name calling and attacking with no facts to back him up,

I did not vote for Obama but i pray that he will be a great president and will bring the country together. He obviously has an uphill battle with congress because of the NEW RULES that Nancy Pelosi put in the House to silence Republicans. How can you have bi-partisanship if the rules silence the minority party?

Only time will tell......

It's gonna be a wild ride...

1. July 19, 2006: Vetoed H.R. 810, Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act of 2005, a bill to ease restrictions on federal funding for embryonic stem cell research. Override attempt failed in House, 235-193 (286 needed).

2. May 1, 2007: Vetoed H.R. 1591, U.S. Troop Readiness, Veterans' Care, Katrina Recovery, and Iraq Accountability Appropriations Act, 2007. Override attempt failed in House, 222-203 (284 needed). A later version of the bill that excluded certain aspects of the initial legislation that the President disapproved of... H.R. 2206, was enacted as Pub.L. 110-28 with the President's approval.

3. June 20, 2007: Vetoed S. 5, Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act of 2007.

4. October 3, 2007: Vetoed H.R. 976, Children's Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act of 2007 ("SCHIP"). Override attempt failed in House, 273-156 (286 votes needed).

5. November 2, 2007: Vetoed H.R. 1495, Water Resources Development Act of 2007. Overridden by House, 361-54 (277 votes needed). Overridden by Senate, 79-14 (62 needed), and enacted as Pub.L. 110-114 over President's veto.

6. November 13, 2007: Vetoed H.R. 3043, Departments of Labor, Health and Human Services, and Education, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act of 2008. Override attempt failed in House, 277-141 (279 votes needed).

7. December 12, 2007: Vetoed H.R. 3963, Children's Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act of 2007.[19] Override attempt failed in House, 260-152 (275 votes needed).

8. December 28, 2007: Pocket Vetoed H.R. 1585, National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008[20]. A later version of the bill that changed a minor provision of which the President disapproved was quickly passed by Congress (H.R. 4986) and was enacted with the President's approval as Pub.L. 110-181 on 28 January 2008.

9. March 8, 2008: Vetoed H.R. 2082, Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008.[21][22] Override attempt failed in House, 225-188.

10. May 21, 2008: Vetoed H.R. 2419, 2007 U.S. Farm Bill.[23][24] Overridden by House, 316-108 (283 votes needed). Overridden by Senate, 82-13 (64 votes needed). Enacted as Pub.L. 110-234 over the President's veto. Due to a clerical error, this act was repealed by Pub.L. 110-246.

11. 18 June 2008: Vetoed H.R. 6421, 2007 U.S. Farm Bill, re-passed by Congress to correct a clerical error in HR 2419.[25] Overridden by House, 317-109 (284 votes required). Overridden by Senate, 80-14 (63 votes needed). Enacted as Pub.L. 110-246 over the President's veto.

12. July 15, 2008: Vetoed H.R. 6331, Medicare Improvements for Patients and Providers Act.[26] Overridden by House, 383-41 (283 votes required.) Overridden by Senate, 70-26 (64 votes required). Enacted as Pub.L. 110-275 over the President's veto

Charles:

I just asked you for 1 EXAMPLE of an ECONOMIC proposal that Bush vetoed. You obviously know there isn't one because you can't name it. Show me where I called Obama anything like the names you are calling Bush. Check your facts before you ramble..........

Charles:
From About.com U>S> Politics as of Dec 2008

As of December 2008, President George W. Bush had vetoed only 12 bills since taking office in January 2001. Only one Presidential veto occurred before Democrats took control of Congress in January 2007. This is the fewest Presidential vetoes of any modern President; in March 2006 Bush set a 200-year veto record. Source: US Senate.

Hey john go to aol your republican friends are on there calling obama every name In the book & accusing him of everything, you would love It there.

Bush Is slime, bush & his republican cronies caused this country to fail, bush veto everything In 2007 which sent the economy & everything else tumbling.

Hey john go to aol your republican friends are on there calling obama every name In the book & accusing him of everything, you would love It there.

Bush Is slime, bush & his republican cronies caused this country to fail, bush veto everything In 2007 which sent the economy & everything else tumbling.

Hey john go to aol your republican friends are on there calling obama every name In the book & accusing him of everything, you would love It there.

Bush Is slime, bush & his republican cronies caused this country to fail, bush veto everything In 2007 which sent the economy & everything else tumbling.

Before you call me names again and call George Bush any names.

Please tell me one bill that Bush has vetoed that would have stopped the economy from tanking?

Republicans caused this mess I don't care what anyone says, they are just mad because they are not inpower anymore.

The republicans caused this country to fail, and bush. Well the people voted for the moron so they can suffer. They have made there bed they can live In It.

But of course they will always blame the democrats for our current problems not there republicans.

Republicans caused this mess I don't care what anyone says, they are just mad because they are not inpower anymore.

The republicans caused this country to fail, and bush. Well the people voted for the moron so they can suffer. They have made there bed they can live In It.

But of course they will always blame the democrats for our current problems not there republicans.

Republicans caused this mess I don't care what anyone says, they are just mad because they are not inpower anymore.

The republicans caused this country to fail, and bush. Well the people voted for the moron so they can suffer. They have made there bed they can live In It.

But of course they will always blame the democrats for our current problems not there republicans.

Republicans caused this mess I don't care what anyone says, they are just mad because they are not inpower anymore.

The republicans caused this country to fail, and bush. Well the people voted for the moron so they can suffer. They have made there bed they can live In It.

But of course they will always blame the democrats for our current problems not there republicans.

Its still hard for you to accept your republicans are the cause of this mess we are In today.

The democrats are not the cause of this mess, they tried to pass bills but bush veto them all even the important one the healthcare bill.

So you can give congress the lowest approval rating you can & the rest of your republican friends.

The republicans & bush are the cause of this mess, bush said why did the country have to fail under him wake up bush you & your republican cronies caused It.

And you have stupid people like john who defend you. Republican never take responsibilty for there own actions.

The republicans caused this mess john, but you or your fellow republican voters do not want to hold your republicans or bush accountable so you blame the other side for these problems.

John all you do Is bash and bully people, I stick up for myself. I don't bully people I just don't take peoples crap or take crap from you so get over It. Nothing you say bothers me.

Its the other way around people bully me & post comments to me that isn't true.

even when he doesn't know them and he is stealing their hard earned tax money to live off of. He really is the lowest life form.

First of all charles the democrats have had control of the government since 2006. I know it is hard for you to understand but in the House and Senate there has been a Democratic Majority. To make it simple for you a "Majority" means there are MORE Democrats than Republicans. Chris Dodd and Barney Frank were in charge of the finance committees and should have seen this coming just as much as Bush should have. So be civil and quit attacking one person when there is more than enough blame to go around.

I think it's funny how you Dems all call bush Nasty Names and are still doing it even though you have won. I don't hear any republicans calling Obama the names that your Princess Nancy Pelosi and Prince Harry Reed have called Bush.

Democrats didn't cause this mess. Republicans did It doesn't suprise me that the republican voters blame democrats besides there republicans.

The republicans had control for 6 years, nobody never complained about them.

Anyone who still supports bush Is blind and ignorant. But bush loves ya'll for It.

These people who voted bush need to suffer, for voting for such a moron. We are all suffering.

Your republicans have practically ruined the middle class people, they all have lost there jobs cars & homes. Republicans did It to themselves.

America voted for the a****** twice to send there kids of to iraq to be killed or wounded.

Bush's fahter can just want on him & his son have ruined this country, the bush family can't be trusted.

While bush lives comfortably In his 2 million dollar home others will be suffering because of him.

The bush family Is nothing but a bunch of money hungery crooks. I love how the bush & mccain fans are crying on the internet.

Bush's fahter can just want on his other son jeb will never be elected president or senate.

The texas people can have the moron back they deserve him.

Sean Hannity can shut up to.

George h bush can just want on. America will never vote for another member of the bush family they have messed this country up enough. I would vote for any other republican or democrat to keep the bush family away from the white house.

They have screwed up this country. The goverment gives free health care to illegals and they don't even help us out the people who where born legal citizens.

And these illegals get more then we do. Why wont the government send these illegals back home besides supporting them.

Other governments would not do that for us.

We can look forward to a Senate Majuority Leader who thinks he is god and says he will not seat a legitimate appointment by the Governor of Illionois. He says he will seat Al Franken even though the election is still not certified. And Obama is sitting there and letting this happen so he is just as guilty.

This is just a preview of the Government running everything in our lived whether they have th authority to or not.

I'm so happy that the Bush regime is leaving the White House. Now we can get down to business and once again be proud Americans.

For those who profited from the Bush terror I hope you burn in your proverbial hell for eternity.

Good bye Bushie and Cheney you loser, scumbag terrorists!

I can only hope that this 6th grade bickering will stop. And from the looks of it since Obama has become the President Elect, it has stopped. But what really amazes me out of all this wasted air is, and forgive me if I overlooked it, why wasn't the 1990's bombing of the Twin Towers not mentioned? After all this was under Clinton's watch, was it not? Was that a conspiracy that people who bash President Bush, conveniently forget about? Well, it will calm down now, because after all, everything here on out will probably be peaceful since the antagonists got their way. Or will it?

I can only hope that this 6th grade bickering will stop. And from the looks of it since Obama has become the President Elect, it has stopped. But what really amazes me out of all this wasted air is, and forgive me if I overlooked it, why wasn't the 1990's bombing of the Twin Towers not mentioned? After all this was under Clinton's watch, was it not? Was that a conspiracy that people who bash President Bush, conveniently forget about? Well, it will calm down now, because after all, everything here on out will probably be peaceful since the antagonists got their way. Or will it?

I can only hope that this 6th grade bickering will stop. And from the looks of it since Obama has become the President Elect, it has stopped. But what really amazes me out of all this wasted air is, and forgive me if I overlooked it, why wasn't the 1990's bombing of the Twin Towers not mentioned? After all this was under Clinton's watch, was it not? Was that a conspiracy that people who bash President Bush, conveniently forget about? Well, it will calm down now, because after all, everything here on out will probably be peaceful since the antagonists got their way. Or will it?

I can only hope that this 6th grade bickering will stop. And from the looks of it since Obama has become the President Elect, it has stopped. But what really amazes me out of all this wasted air is, and forgive me if I overlooked it, why wasn't the 1990's bombing of the Twin Towers not mentioned? After all this was under Clinton's watch, was it not? Was that a conspiracy that people who bash President Bush, conveniently forget about? Well, it will calm down now, because after all, everything here on out will probably be peaceful since the antagonists got their way. Or will it?

ok-ok-ok- i am VERY proud to be an American! But- BUT- i am NOT proud of the jack-asses who are running it - because all they are doing is running it right into the ground. Think about this-
#1- Bush and his family and CRONIES are all OIL tycoons. So why is it surprising the war has bled black blood?
#2- If our problem is with IRAQ- and Bin Laden- why are our troops in Afghanistan? why did bush say NO to the "final shot" when troops had ol' osamah in sites? not ONCE- not TWICE-but 3 times?
#3 does any one else find it grossly unsettling that we are supposed to be after one man- but find a reason to kill another?
#4this country was doing just fine- not great, but fine. now in just 8 short years Bush has all but maxed out our "spendages", and taken this country into what is going to be ANOTHER GREAT DEPRESSION! i honestly can't fathom how people don't know what we are talking about- i mean- don't you watch the news? no, not local- watch some CNN, get educated. the man is the closest thing to the devil! he has all of our lives and well being in his hands and yet its almost like he is playing "army men". how dim do people have to be to not realize that he was CHEATED into office!
again- how dim do people have to be to not see what was coming? ummm....duh!
Then- there are the folks who are all "bush is the best- whoo h*o- lets get 'em".
but then cry, and moan when they don't have a job, cant get a loan, cant pay the bills, cant afford to go to the doctor- and d**n sure cant afford the $5.00 a gallon bill to get them anywhere! so YES- i mostly agree with the author. and in MY OPINION- your DIM if you are going to vote in McCain! if you are that curious as to what his presidency would be like- take a good look at the past 8 years! sit down and think about it!
As far as it goes Mc BUSH!!!!!!! that is the gist of it. so i don't blame the author for getting his opinion out there. its not that its NON- patriotic-, its just the truth is hard to swallow sometimes. brava- author!!!!!
Also- if your wondering what i have to go by- check out www.zietgeist.com

Voters please ignore anything coming from the bush or mccain supporters. They are all over the internet posting lies & smears agaisnt obama & getting people agaisnt him.

They got away with It In 2000 & 2004 but we are not going to let them get away with It In 2008. Republicans are not for the people they are for big business & big coporations & ceos.

Republicans do not know how to follow the rules & play fairly even karl rove said mccain has gone to far!. Do not believe any internet ads posting from the mccain team.

Don't let them take your freedom away we have the right to vote for who we want to vote for just like they do!.

Show them this year they will not get away buy lying & cheating to stay in the white house. Because we all know mccain Is bush's third. Mccains ideas & policys are just the same has bush.

Do not believe there garbage there dirty money will not help them this year. The republicans had 8 years to change but they went back to them same old stuff during the reagen years & bush sr. years!.

George W. Bush Is worse then his father but bush & mccain do a good job In convincing the voters they are the best people to run the country.

Voters please ignore anything coming from the bush or mccain supporters. They are all over the internet posting lies & smears agaisnt obama & getting people agaisnt him.

They got away with It In 2000 & 2004 but we are not going to let them get away with It In 2008. Republicans are not for the people they are for big business & big coporations & ceos.

Republicans do not know how to follow the rules & play fairly even karl rove said mccain has gone to far!. Do not believe any internet ads posting from the mccain team.

Don't let them take your freedom away we have the right to vote for who we want to vote for just like they do!.

Show them this year they will not get away buy lying & cheating to stay in the white house. Because we all know mccain Is bush's third. Mccains ideas & policys are just the same has bush.

Do not believe there garbage there dirty money will not help them this year. The republicans had 8 years to change but they went back to them same old stuff during the reagen years & bush sr. years!.

George W. Bush Is worse then his father but bush & mccain do a good job In convincing the voters they are the best people to run the country.

There are many people in government who are wealthy. John Kerry wealthiest Senator, followed by 5 more Dems. Wealthiest person in House is Dem. Pelosi worth $12 -$16 million. I know how liberals hate facts. Also, Democrats in charge for past 2 years - any changes you like, any fulfilled 'promises'? i was a Democrat for 20 years - until I got the brain implant.

There are many people in government who are wealthy. John Kerry wealthiest Senator, followed by 5 more Dems. Wealthiest person in House is Dem. Pelosi worth $12 -$16 million. I know how liberals hate facts. Also, Democrats in charge for past 2 years - any changes you like, any fulfilled 'promises'? i was a Democrat for 20 years - until I got the brain implant.

There are many people in government who are wealthy. John Kerry wealthiest Senator, followed by 5 more Dems. Wealthiest person in House is Dem. Pelosi worth $12 -$16 million. I know how liberals hate facts. Also, Democrats in charge for past 2 years - any changes you like, any fulfilled 'promises'? i was a Democrat for 20 years - until I got the brain implant.

There are many people in government who are wealthy. John Kerry wealthiest Senator, followed by 5 more Dems. Wealthiest person in House is Dem. Pelosi worth $12 -$16 million. I know how liberals hate facts. Also, Democrats in charge for past 2 years - any changes you like, any fulfilled 'promises'? i was a Democrat for 20 years - until I got the brain implant.

You sound like you just do not like our country as a Vietnam Era vet., I know what it meens to serve this great nation of ours so if you do not like it leave it go to a country where they have no freedom of speach and will cut off your arm for stealing a loaf of bread try one of the Arab States Or Korea Or China so on & on! A real American!!

Good God! First off, this website is for filing complaints about scams and bad customer service - not the United States government! If you're that dis-satisfied with the Bush administration, nobody is forced to live in US territory. You're free to get out anytime you wish! Complaining is your legal right, but accusing the President of the United States of such things is uncalled for unless you can prove it somehow. Since you cant...

sit there and wait until November, when the next President is elected. Bush will be gone, and you may discover that the socialism of Clinton and Obama isn't so wonderful after all. You're blessed to be legally allowed to b***h. Soon, that may disappear.

"Employer's are allowed to screw you they can terminate you even if the accident was there fault here in alabama, & then you have to put up with the bad insurance company to pay you for an accident you didn't cause."

YOU DON"T HAVE A JOB!!!!!!! Stop pretending to know anything about employment.

You don't know me or my situation so how can you or anyone else call me a liar? its time with these bad insurance companies & bad businesses stop getting away with treating us wrong!.

You don't like it john you can get the f**k out! you just decided to harass me like all the other abusers on this site this is harassment john I have never said a thing to you until you started posting crap in my reports & calling me a liar.

Nobody has proved me wrong I am not afraid to speak out if it is the truth I will not just come on here & make up lies about companies like you are accusing me of, it seems you have a problem with people doing it.

I might not get anything from reporting complaints on this site but I am..

I don't care if you or anyone else believes me john what you say or anyone else says means nothing to me. These businesses & insurance companies try to get away with everything they can with doing us wrong.

You do no know me john nither does the other insulters about my complaints. I am reporting the truth I don't care if you believe me your comments mean nothing to me.

I don't have take this abuse or being treated this way!.

who gets to spew absolute baseless garbage yet people like myself who post FACT that debunks your lying racist bullshit doesn't get posted. Who are you blowing to get protection on this site fagboy. Robert posted a rebuttal to your lying sensless crap. Don't like it, get the f**k out - which you should do anyway. You have been proven wrong yet again and you insist on crying like the whining t**t you are. None of youe alleged 'complaints' are based in facts, just what you want like a little baby who doesn't get their bottle. This is why you can't make it in the real world.

Robert strikes again with his insults why should we have to agree with bush or any of the bush supporters.

The workman's compensation claim in my state of alabama is a joke or any other state, they accept responsibilty @ the beginning when you are hurt on the job & start paying you.

Then if you need sugurey they just stop payment out of the blue, they even have it in writting that it was a work related accident a slip & fall. But know they have made up some excuse to stop paying payment's.

You have to get a lawyer & fight for what already was yours they accepted responsibilty & where already paying but you are able to sue for the distress they have caused you & your family.

Employer's are allowed to screw you they can terminate you even if the accident was there fault here in alabama, & then you have to put up with the bad insurance company to pay you for an accident you didn't cause.

They try to get away with everything doing people wrong.

Robert strikes again with his insults why should we have to agree with bush or any of the bush supporters.

The workman's compensation claim in my state of alabama is a joke or any other state, they accept responsibilty @ the beginning when you are hurt on the job & start paying you.

Then if you need sugurey they just stop payment out of the blue, they even have it in writting that it was a work related accident a slip & fall. But know they have made up some excuse to stop paying payment's.

You have to get a lawyer & fight for what already was yours they accepted responsibilty & where already paying but you are able to sue for the distress they have caused you & your family.

Employer's are allowed to screw you they can terminate you even if the accident was there fault here in alabama, & then you have to put up with the bad insurance company to pay you for an accident you didn't cause.

They try to get away with everything doing people wrong.

Robert strikes again with his insults why should we have to agree with bush or any of the bush supporters.

The workman's compensation claim in my state of alabama is a joke or any other state, they accept responsibilty @ the beginning when you are hurt on the job & start paying you.

Then if you need sugurey they just stop payment out of the blue, they even have it in writting that it was a work related accident a slip & fall. But know they have made up some excuse to stop paying payment's.

You have to get a lawyer & fight for what already was yours they accepted responsibilty & where already paying but you are able to sue for the distress they have caused you & your family.

Employer's are allowed to screw you they can terminate you even if the accident was there fault here in alabama, & then you have to put up with the bad insurance company to pay you for an accident you didn't cause.

They try to get away with everything doing people wrong.

"This country is really not all that great."

Name a better one.

"First of all, this country is a bully. They're cowards."

If we got rid of the Liberals, we wouldn't have any cowards.

"This US don't have its own resources, it doesn't stand on its two feet."

Really? This country is actually self sufficient. The last time I looked, we are the only ones who can hold our own. This would explain why every other free country depends on us to protect them.

"instead, they go invade, push around, and put guns in people's head and say give me your resources or else!"

Name the time that happened, and which country it was. Be specific. If it actually happened, we would be eating free food, wearing free jewelry and clothes, and using free fuel. The last time I checked, I was paying for this stuff.

"If it wasn't these other country's resources, this place would not be great, or all that. We would starv."

Amazing! We feed the entire world, yet you think we'd starve. Other than chromium(which we buy from South Africa...a country we "bullied" into abandoning aparthied), we don't need anything from anywhere else. There is enough oil(I know how you Libs think) under our own dirt to provide us with fuel for 300 years.

"So actually, we're depending on other countrys for food and basic necesities really. so tell me, where is this great country come from? It's not so great if you have to be a big bully."

Again, what food do we need to import? What basic neccessities do we need to import? Name anything, other than chromium we need to import?

Now, on to the best.

"I agree"

What a shock! Charles agrees with someone who hates America.

"This country isn't great its full of crime, murderer's, thieves, scammer's bad businesses all you can think of."

It also has at least one lazy mooch more than we need.

"There is corruption in this country people get taken advantage of from scammer's & bad businesses, even if you are a good employee you still get fired cause employers have the right."

YOU DON'T HAVE A JOB!!!! Stop pretending you have a clue about what employees deal with.

"There is poverty in this country. Well people wanted bush so they got what they deserve its to late know, & the rest of us have to suffer."

Poverty in this country is still a higher standard of living than most others. You could raise your income Charles, by GETTING A JOB!!!!!!

"This country is really not all that great."

Name a better one.

"First of all, this country is a bully. They're cowards."

If we got rid of the Liberals, we wouldn't have any cowards.

"This US don't have its own resources, it doesn't stand on its two feet."

Really? This country is actually self sufficient. The last time I looked, we are the only ones who can hold our own. This would explain why every other free country depends on us to protect them.

"instead, they go invade, push around, and put guns in people's head and say give me your resources or else!"

Name the time that happened, and which country it was. Be specific. If it actually happened, we would be eating free food, wearing free jewelry and clothes, and using free fuel. The last time I checked, I was paying for this stuff.

"If it wasn't these other country's resources, this place would not be great, or all that. We would starv."

Amazing! We feed the entire world, yet you think we'd starve. Other than chromium(which we buy from South Africa...a country we "bullied" into abandoning aparthied), we don't need anything from anywhere else. There is enough oil(I know how you Libs think) under our own dirt to provide us with fuel for 300 years.

"So actually, we're depending on other countrys for food and basic necesities really. so tell me, where is this great country come from? It's not so great if you have to be a big bully."

Again, what food do we need to import? What basic neccessities do we need to import? Name anything, other than chromium we need to import?

Now, on to the best.

"I agree"

What a shock! Charles agrees with someone who hates America.

"This country isn't great its full of crime, murderer's, thieves, scammer's bad businesses all you can think of."

It also has at least one lazy mooch more than we need.

"There is corruption in this country people get taken advantage of from scammer's & bad businesses, even if you are a good employee you still get fired cause employers have the right."

YOU DON'T HAVE A JOB!!!! Stop pretending you have a clue about what employees deal with.

"There is poverty in this country. Well people wanted bush so they got what they deserve its to late know, & the rest of us have to suffer."

Poverty in this country is still a higher standard of living than most others. You could raise your income Charles, by GETTING A JOB!!!!!!

"This country is really not all that great."

Name a better one.

"First of all, this country is a bully. They're cowards."

If we got rid of the Liberals, we wouldn't have any cowards.

"This US don't have its own resources, it doesn't stand on its two feet."

Really? This country is actually self sufficient. The last time I looked, we are the only ones who can hold our own. This would explain why every other free country depends on us to protect them.

"instead, they go invade, push around, and put guns in people's head and say give me your resources or else!"

Name the time that happened, and which country it was. Be specific. If it actually happened, we would be eating free food, wearing free jewelry and clothes, and using free fuel. The last time I checked, I was paying for this stuff.

"If it wasn't these other country's resources, this place would not be great, or all that. We would starv."

Amazing! We feed the entire world, yet you think we'd starve. Other than chromium(which we buy from South Africa...a country we "bullied" into abandoning aparthied), we don't need anything from anywhere else. There is enough oil(I know how you Libs think) under our own dirt to provide us with fuel for 300 years.

"So actually, we're depending on other countrys for food and basic necesities really. so tell me, where is this great country come from? It's not so great if you have to be a big bully."

Again, what food do we need to import? What basic neccessities do we need to import? Name anything, other than chromium we need to import?

Now, on to the best.

"I agree"

What a shock! Charles agrees with someone who hates America.

"This country isn't great its full of crime, murderer's, thieves, scammer's bad businesses all you can think of."

It also has at least one lazy mooch more than we need.

"There is corruption in this country people get taken advantage of from scammer's & bad businesses, even if you are a good employee you still get fired cause employers have the right."

YOU DON'T HAVE A JOB!!!! Stop pretending you have a clue about what employees deal with.

"There is poverty in this country. Well people wanted bush so they got what they deserve its to late know, & the rest of us have to suffer."

Poverty in this country is still a higher standard of living than most others. You could raise your income Charles, by GETTING A JOB!!!!!!

This country isn't great its full of crime, murderer's, thieves, scammer's bad businesses all you can think of.

There is corruption in this country people get taken advantage of from scammer's & bad businesses, even if you are a good employee you still get fired cause employers have the right.

There is poverty in this country. Well people wanted bush so they got what they deserve its to late know, & the rest of us have to suffer.

First of all, this country is a bully. They're cowards. This US don't have its own resources, it doesn't stand on its two feet. instead, they go invade, push around, and put guns in people's head and say give me your resources or else! If it wasn't these other country's resources, this place would not be great, or all that. We would starv. So actually, we're depending on other countrys for food and basic necesities really. so tell me, where is this great country come from? It's not so great if you have to be a big bully.

I take it you and all the other "war-stoppers" have forgotten the real reason that we are there. 9/11!!!! How could you forget something like that? Do you really want that to happen again here? Well it would if we happened to leave now. And I also take it that you have never served in the military because if you did you would have nothing but respect for the job our men and women do to protect your butt! We do it so that you can have the peace and comfort every night as you lay your head down on your pillow knowing that you don't have a thing to worry about! So my advice to you is to shut your mouth and do something real with you life.....!

Christopher,
I hope you still read this however I don't believe this is the right site for this banter I could not help myself to responded.
You have no idea what goes on inside of Washington. You all have to excuse me but the names of the people in the following story of the CIA agent have flown in and out of my head so I wont be able to give the names to back up what I'm about to say but you can look up the story. Christopher and to all have you not read or did you just forget that one of the top right hand man to Saddam told the one CIA agent who had interviewed him that Saddam wanted the the world but mostly the USA and Iran to believe that he (Saddam) had WOMD=weapons of mass destruction; before our President even considered going to war he was told by our inside guys (cohorts) information that Saddam had the WOMD and planned to use them. So Saddam got his wish he wanted to have everyone believe he did have them and would use them. Our president did what we elected him to do protect us! What else could our president do with the information he had and after 9/11 I for one wouldn't expect anything less. Our President was going on information that was told to him and was assured to be true, but once committed you cant go to war then leave once you found out that oh Saddam he just wanted you to believe that he had WOMD ha ha just kidding. If our President would have pulled out right then there what would you be saying now? President Bush is right no one likes War but you have to see it through you can't just up and leave and wash your hands of it because it is taking to long or costing to much I don't like it either I might have done things differently alot of us would but give the man respect for not just walking out once he committed to go in.

Just one added point that when President Bush and congress was ran by majority Conservatives our country was the most prosperous it had been since Reagan but since the house had switch to Dem's look at what has happened to our economy but hey lets blame the pres for that too!

i bet you also belive that 9-11 was created by bush, or that big foot lives, of that Hillary is a good prerson, or that night is day and day is night. do you really belive the bullshit that your spreading?? you don't do you?? If you truely belive that cra, leave and live somewhere else. I have served in the army and USMC, for over 30 years, and even though i have sworn to defend this country and it's people i have to say you, not so much. i hear canada is nice this time of year. go find out

Just some quick comments

I am from Canada and now live in MD for the last 5 years. I am 36

Every time I talk to my parents or friends they are telling me about something you NEVER hear about in the news. Everything is filtered and fed..but I'm sure you all know that anyways. I think you just don't know what you are getting filtered

A socialized health system would stimulate the economy because people would not owe for medical bills. People would have higher credit scores. I have NEVER owed for medical before coming to this country. There are no waiting lists in Canada, no more than here! We are all being fed!

There are many books and publications NOT available to the US because of lawsuits they would cause.

The amount of Racisim here is astounding

The Iraqis or that whole part of there country has been fighting since it's been documented..why would they stop now, they are always going to have something to fight about. If it isn't with the US, it will be with someone else.
I don't agree with war, I don't agree with the oil thing...I do agree that those guys do like to fight and history shows it.

I am not a historian, a economist or a reporter but I do know what I see and hear from both sides and IT STINKS!

Just some quick comments

I am from Canada and now live in MD for the last 5 years. I am 36

Every time I talk to my parents or friends they are telling me about something you NEVER hear about in the news. Everything is filtered and fed..but I'm sure you all know that anyways. I think you just don't know what you are getting filtered

A socialized health system would stimulate the economy because people would not owe for medical bills. People would have higher credit scores. I have NEVER owed for medical before coming to this country. There are no waiting lists in Canada, no more than here! We are all being fed!

There are many books and publications NOT available to the US because of lawsuits they would cause.

The amount of Racisim here is astounding

The Iraqis or that whole part of there country has been fighting since it's been documented..why would they stop now, they are always going to have something to fight about. If it isn't with the US, it will be with someone else.
I don't agree with war, I don't agree with the oil thing...I do agree that those guys do like to fight and history shows it.

I am not a historian, a economist or a reporter but I do know what I see and hear from both sides and IT STINKS!

Just some quick comments

I am from Canada and now live in MD for the last 5 years. I am 36

Every time I talk to my parents or friends they are telling me about something you NEVER hear about in the news. Everything is filtered and fed..but I'm sure you all know that anyways. I think you just don't know what you are getting filtered

A socialized health system would stimulate the economy because people would not owe for medical bills. People would have higher credit scores. I have NEVER owed for medical before coming to this country. There are no waiting lists in Canada, no more than here! We are all being fed!

There are many books and publications NOT available to the US because of lawsuits they would cause.

The amount of Racisim here is astounding

The Iraqis or that whole part of there country has been fighting since it's been documented..why would they stop now, they are always going to have something to fight about. If it isn't with the US, it will be with someone else.
I don't agree with war, I don't agree with the oil thing...I do agree that those guys do like to fight and history shows it.

I am not a historian, a economist or a reporter but I do know what I see and hear from both sides and IT STINKS!

Just some quick comments

I am from Canada and now live in MD for the last 5 years. I am 36

Every time I talk to my parents or friends they are telling me about something you NEVER hear about in the news. Everything is filtered and fed..but I'm sure you all know that anyways. I think you just don't know what you are getting filtered

A socialized health system would stimulate the economy because people would not owe for medical bills. People would have higher credit scores. I have NEVER owed for medical before coming to this country. There are no waiting lists in Canada, no more than here! We are all being fed!

There are many books and publications NOT available to the US because of lawsuits they would cause.

The amount of Racisim here is astounding

The Iraqis or that whole part of there country has been fighting since it's been documented..why would they stop now, they are always going to have something to fight about. If it isn't with the US, it will be with someone else.
I don't agree with war, I don't agree with the oil thing...I do agree that those guys do like to fight and history shows it.

I am not a historian, a economist or a reporter but I do know what I see and hear from both sides and IT STINKS!

ya'll need to start thinking for yourselves
it is not wrong to be for or against
g w bush but he makes it so hard to believe that anything he does is for the better of Man kind

www.loosechange911.com

and do other research pro and con.
like most people i was pissed when i saw the plane crash into the second tower but there is alot of information the puplic does not know, but most of it is public record and done in plain veiw for all to see like a magician, slite of hand. there's is so much more to what has happed if you could just open your eyes and mind and see it all for what it truly is WRONG.
all i hear is have you forgot 9/11? HAVE you forgot kent state?

i have forgotted either and i am a shamed of both.

One of the many rebutters, prior to this note, posted as follows ( Moreover, your post is so full of Karl 'screw the facts, let's blame it on Clinton' Rove, RNC talking points B.S. it's not even funny anymore that people are dumb enough to believe any of these things. When are people going to start thinking for themselves, and educating themselves, on these matters instead of letting the right-wing, neo-con nutcases of this Administration do their thinking for them?)

When are people going to wake up. When they get angry enought to find the truth for them selfs and stop reading all the left - right bull on the net.

A good place to start is LExes Nexes - Complete documentation of everything done in Congress, The White House, By person of note in and out of Government.
They record every thing as stated - no inserts - no addmissions.
Its not free so there is the first excuess for some of you.
What ever you do stop reading all the crap on the net and find non affiliated recorders of the day to day activities in this country.

Bill
Vacaville, CA
Forgive my poor speeling

Many of you may not suspect that "9/11" was an Inside Job. Check out the hard facts which are plenty on the internet, on Google, Youtube etc. Plenty of videos on Youtube on 9/11 the inside job. It's a shame when the guys in the government killed ~3000 of their own citizens instead of protecting them. Blaming "terrorists" for "9/11" is One Big Lie. There were no terrorists, it all was orchestrated by guys like Uncle Sam, Larry Silverstein, The d**k, Walker Talker and his Bros. and a few more. Since that morning 7 years ago I've been repating same phrase again and again: "What a shame. What a shame. What a shame."

Are you aware that the largest supplier of oil to the United States is Canada?

If this were a 'war for oil' we would have invaded your piss-ant little country and this war would have been over in no time!

I think many of the lib's on this site forget that the vote for war was almost unanimous. That means BOTH PARTIES sent our brave soldiers into combat. Mabey that's why the democratic run congress has the LOWEST APPROVAL RATING EVER! They don't stand behind what they started.

I don't agree with all the presidents ideas or policies, but I find that the persons who don't agree with anothers beliefs or point of view and are hateful and use name calling usually do this because they are not well informed and that is all they can resort to.

We can be like we were in WWII and ignore what goes on in the rest of the world, not get involved, and so 5 million Jews, 20 million Russians, 10 million Chritians, 1900 Catolic priests were murdered, massacred, raped, starved, and humiliated, We were brought into WWII by the bombing of Pearl Harbor, and why did they do this, because wewere santioning them because the atrosities that they were committing. And we had protesters agaist the war then to. But thats whats great about this country, you can have your opinion.

I have a son in Iraq now, and a friend of mine whose son has been there twice. They tell alot different story than you hear on the news. And the Kurds, they are happy we are there because they were being eliminated. If you don't agree fine, but use facts and dialoge not hate and name calling.

I came to this site today as a new user, looking for information to help me determine if a company that I am interested in patronizing is reputable. As a cautious consumer, I research companies as a rule before establishing new business relationships or purchasing consumer goods. While the internet provides easy access for criminals to prey on the vulnerable, it also can be an invaluable tool for consumers to protect themselves. As I browsed the various companies and postings, it was immediately obvious that this site is just what I have been looking for. I was so excited to finally find a site that is devoted to consumers and the hazards we need to be wary of. This will save me so much time - it's a virtual 'one stop shop' - and I won't have to manually search site after site anymore!

Suddenly I found myself engrossed in this 'report'. I had to double check to be sure I hadn't somehow wandered into another site. I thought this site was 'by consumers, for consumers'. I can't recall a time when imposing ones political views and opinions was considered a commodity. I live near Washington D.C. but I have never headed over to the Executive Office Building to pick up milk or have my oil changed. Debating foreign policy and arguing over the virtues (or lack thereof) of current and former presidents aren't for sale on the shelves of my local Wal-mart.

Of course these individuals have every right to voice their opinion on these topics, but do they belong here? There is certainly no shortage of websites, newspapers or television programs that are devoted to these issues. If I am interested in learning about a presidential candidate's position on an issue that is important to me, I don't have to look for more than a fraction of a second to get all the political information I can handle.

Why can't this site be reserved exclusively for what it was intended to be for? This thread has been ongoing for YEARS, yet I can't imagine why it was ever allowed to be included on this wonderful CONSUMER site in the first place. Please refer political 'reports' to the appropriate place so that this site can maintain it's integrity as an all-encompassing resource 'by consumers, for consumers' and I'll get my fill of politics from Tim Russert, The Washington Post and www.usa.gov another time.

Thanks!

All of this is rediculous. Impeach Bush? C'mon now! Use a little common sense. Don't you think that will the rabid, anti-Bush, left-wing, ultra-Liberal media here in America that ANY chance of impeachment happening would have happened LONG ago? I think yes it would have.

So please, let it go. Bush has just over a year left in office. You know what the dirty little secret about that is? HE CANNOT RUN AGAIN!!!

You're just hurt because your boyfriend Bill Clinton go caught committing perjury.

If being President is so easy then you run for the office and see how far you get.

Besides, is RipOffReport.com really the forum for this in the first place? I don't think it is.

Merry Christmas!

Marine Corps!

Have a Happy Holiday all you lesser beings.

Don't forget the airing of grievances, and feats of strength this fine Festivus.

Whew! This was a long act to follow. I read this from the beginning, and I was surprised to see as much as I have. I now have the following comments.

To the person from S. Africa-
Thank you for your comments. This is indeed a great nation.

The person from the UK-
I seem to recall the Dixie Chicks getting booed off stage while in Great Britain awhile back for talking bad about the US President and the war. I'm not sure about the timimg, but I do believe the war in Iraq had already started.

To Christopher, the originator of this report-
How would you respond to b from Newbury Park, CA?

To all Vets, Ex-Vets(whatever that means), and former servicemen-
Just want to do a quick census. How many of you are here, and what branch? I myself served in the Navy.

In response to the comments about the firemen and 9/11...

The irritating overkill was over the firemen and policemen who "went in to the towers without any regard for themselves", or "when civilians are running out of a building, who is running into the danger? Firemen!" The hype surrounding 9/11 was such that our US Congress officially categorized each and every office worker as a "hero" and with that status their families received $1M each from our taxes.

My question then as it is now is how could our politicians call a "victim" a hero at the same time? And spend billions just because it felt good at the time?

And about firemen... Give me a break. First of all, it is their job. They get PAID to do it. And if they do not do their job, then they will be removed from it.

By definition, a HERO is someone who puts their life on the line for another's, and does NOT GET PAID TO DO IT. The compensation factor alone, eliminates all firemen and policemen from the category of being "Heroes".

In response to the comments about the firemen and 9/11...

The irritating overkill was over the firemen and policemen who "went in to the towers without any regard for themselves", or "when civilians are running out of a building, who is running into the danger? Firemen!" The hype surrounding 9/11 was such that our US Congress officially categorized each and every office worker as a "hero" and with that status their families received $1M each from our taxes.

My question then as it is now is how could our politicians call a "victim" a hero at the same time? And spend billions just because it felt good at the time?

And about firemen... Give me a break. First of all, it is their job. They get PAID to do it. And if they do not do their job, then they will be removed from it.

By definition, a HERO is someone who puts their life on the line for another's, and does NOT GET PAID TO DO IT. The compensation factor alone, eliminates all firemen and policemen from the category of being "Heroes".

In response to the comments about the firemen and 9/11...

The irritating overkill was over the firemen and policemen who "went in to the towers without any regard for themselves", or "when civilians are running out of a building, who is running into the danger? Firemen!" The hype surrounding 9/11 was such that our US Congress officially categorized each and every office worker as a "hero" and with that status their families received $1M each from our taxes.

My question then as it is now is how could our politicians call a "victim" a hero at the same time? And spend billions just because it felt good at the time?

And about firemen... Give me a break. First of all, it is their job. They get PAID to do it. And if they do not do their job, then they will be removed from it.

By definition, a HERO is someone who puts their life on the line for another's, and does NOT GET PAID TO DO IT. The compensation factor alone, eliminates all firemen and policemen from the category of being "Heroes".

In response to the comments about the firemen and 9/11...

The irritating overkill was over the firemen and policemen who "went in to the towers without any regard for themselves", or "when civilians are running out of a building, who is running into the danger? Firemen!" The hype surrounding 9/11 was such that our US Congress officially categorized each and every office worker as a "hero" and with that status their families received $1M each from our taxes.

My question then as it is now is how could our politicians call a "victim" a hero at the same time? And spend billions just because it felt good at the time?

And about firemen... Give me a break. First of all, it is their job. They get PAID to do it. And if they do not do their job, then they will be removed from it.

By definition, a HERO is someone who puts their life on the line for another's, and does NOT GET PAID TO DO IT. The compensation factor alone, eliminates all firemen and policemen from the category of being "Heroes".

I'm almost 50 years of age. In my life, there has always been some kind of war going on. When the United States isn't invading someplace, they are running a cold war nuclear buildup scam.

So, what is the one thing that all these wars have in common?

No, idiot! Not oil. What did oil matter in the Vietnam war?

And, not communism or terror either.

The one common denominator is money. Now, tell me, who makes the money in every war?

No, idiot, not the soldiers. They make little or nothing.

Where is the big money going?

That right, in war equipment.

It's a trillion dollar industry. Everything from combat boots to stealth bombers to paper for soldiers to wipe their asses with. Add it all up. Trillions of dollars.

Here's the thing. Without a war, nobody could sell war products, right? So, the companies that make war products need to spend bribe money to make sure some kind of war is going on all the time.

That's why we have wars. Because the companies that supply war products pay bribes to keep them going.

Tell me, if you had billion dollar defense contracts, wouldn't you kick back millions of dollars to see that they keep on coming? d**n right.

Remember this. Money is the root of all evil. It's never about the principle or about honor or terror.

It's always about the money. Just look to see who makes the money. That's probably who has the biggest reason to start the wars and keep them going.

So, you can forget about seeing the end of the war anytime soon. If the Iraq war does ever end, we will still maintain troops there. And, as soon as it ends, the war suppliers will figure out a way to get a new war going.

You can count on that.

Peace? No more wars? Not in my lifetime. And, not in yours either! Get used to it.

Is it Patriotic to kill people in other Countries?

Gee I thought it to be Patriotic to stand for "what is right" about your Country. To defend your Country from "opposition on your soil". Who's soil were you on while you were being Patriotic?

Were you being attacked? Were any of your "major allies" being attacked? What threat to you made you Patriotic?

If you are a "vetran" that does not make you Patriotic. It may mean you wanted a licence to kill people, or use powerful weapons or "brag".

I don't see how it can be Patriotic to fight silly wars in places you really have no personal interest in, or can see why your Government has an interest in them at all.

I would think a Patriot, would be against war at this point. Given the war in Iraq. After Vietnam.

Attacking Iraq and our economy at the same time that they attack our basic freedoms doesn't smack of compassionate conservatism to me.I'm also worried about Social Security. While the whole idea of the government forcing us to participate wether we think we could do a better job of investing our hard earned dollars or not is repugnant to me, I've paid in for so long, I'm afraid of what they will do with it. While it's true we pay into the system all of our working lives, the funds the program pays retirees are actually coming from whoever happens to be working at the time. As baby boomers leave the workforce there will be less and less coming in and more and more going out. While I'm sure you know this already, just think what the current administration can do to an already flawed system.

I'd rather allow my pitbull/bulldog mix (none too bright) make money and foreign relations decisions for me than Bush and his cabinet.

The thought of Bush nominating, and the party in power deciding who will fill maybe three or four of the inevitable (due to attrition)
vacancies on the Supreme Court this term has me terrified at what may happen to our rights.

Sorry to hear about Dale's Glaucoma, I know it drove my uptight mother to smoke weed. As a matter of fact my wifes family has been hit hard by retinitis pigmentosa,lateral retinitis and glaucoma. The only thing that gives them any relief is weed. It's too bad Maryland doesn't allow medical marijuana. A compassionate use law would probably give many people whose states don't have one, something to lobby for.

Well, I've got no Morphine Pump to turn on or off, but my meds are starting to make me sick. Alaska has a medical marijuana registry, but since my medical care is from the V.A., I'm afraid I may get in trouble with the Feds if I were to indulge.

Happy whatever Holiday you guys celebrate. I'm a happy heathen so I just close up shop for a couple of days and enjoy family time.

I have to say, your last post was more thoughtful then you have been in months and my family doesn't wish the best for anyone and everyone this Holiday Season.

That being said, I feel for your wife, Dale has Glacoma (spelling???) Yet he continues to work full time and then some, he's old fashioned and believes in being the "bread winning" so to speak. As I have stated numerous times, we have done so much for so many. As a parent of a disabled child, I take any and all disablities to a serious nature. No matter whatever factor involved.

I really don't believe it is a case or which party is what. Our nation needs more than we care to know. I read some interesting news on Yahoo earlier today about some of these new cabinet members. One of which wants to take what little social security gives to fix other budget concerns. Something isn't right with this whole picture.

If you had read everything I've written you would have seen that I believe we need to do what we have to to insure safety for our children's futures, however I think our troops should have been home long ago. My problem with our great nation is the offset occurring in our finacial endevours. Hell, Southern Maryland has money (well they're finding it) to find a baseball stadium, but there's no funds for schools, etc. This is the kinda' crap that needs to be stopped. What ever happened to priorities?

December 13 by Evelyn J. Pringle

Bush + Republicans + Amway = Fraud
Amway, Republicans & That Old Time Religion

Eric Scheibeler's book new, Merchants of Deception,* is a first hand account of the author's recruitment into the Amway cult, his rapid advancement as a recruiter of others, and his final awakening after many years of mind-dulling dedication to the cult ideology. The book evidences Eric's deep personal resolve to try and stop what happened to him from happening to others.

For decades, Amway has used its political clout within the extreme Right Wing of the Republican party to gain access to foreign markets, obtain special tax breaks, and most importantly, to retain immunity from prosecution for pyramid scheme fraud. The giant MLM is able to generates funds all over the globe, simply by using some of those funds to buy protection against regulation and oversight. It has unprecedented influence with the current White House. But worst of all, it has the reach and ability to recruit, manipulate, and misinform millions of new people each year.

The Amway Snow Job - How It Works

Over the past 20 years, more than 10 million Americans have been lured into the trap of investing vast amounts of time and money in Amway's pyramid sales scheme. And each new recruit was subjected to its radical conservative propaganda campaign as a key component of the motivational training that their up-line recruiters insisted they must have in order to be successful with Amway.

To that end, millions of Amway audiotapes, CDs and videos are sold each year. The main message they expound is that success is achieved by emulating the Amway beliefs and values, characterized by political conservatism, disdain for the poor, extreme distrust of government social programs, and adherence to the rules of right-wing Christianity.

To date, there have been no studies done on the political leanings of recruits entering the Amway program. But it is known that many recruits who may not have embraced the radical right-wing agenda going in, adopt it soon after being exposed to Amway's indoctrination. If even half of the recruits believe the propaganda they are exposed to, it means millions of people are converted each year as a direct result of their involvement with the MLM.

Eric is a good example of this kind of conversion. Before he came into Amway, politics had never been an issue with him, and he was not a deeply religious person. But he soon came to believe that he was dealing with people of great faith and integrity, in part because the tapes he was instructed to listen to.

Unbeknownst to Eric, an educational process had begun that would eventually alter and control nearly all of his values and beliefs. As part of that process, he was instructed to (1) attend choreographed Amway rallies where it delivers its message, often over 2 or three days; (2) read politically charged books; (3) listen to hours of politically slanted audiotapes and voicemail messages; and (4) pay large amounts of money to listen to Right Wing Religious and Republican spokespersons at seminars around the nation.

While attending these seminars, Eric began to learn about the supposed evils of liberalism and the Democratic Party and how the liberals wanted to take from the hardworking, honest people and give to the nonproductive members of society, who were only poor because they were lazy.

Distributors were also pushed to contribute money to the campaigns of conservative Republicans who were brought in to speak. If they were not from their home state, they were urged to help get them elected anyway in order to make the whole country better.

When speaking, top promoters constantly linked the Amway teachings to religion, with comments such as, When you're loyal to the upline, it's being loyal to God. It's being loyal to your husband and loyal to your children, by Amway Double Diamond Linda Harteis at a Ladies Meeting.

When Republicans spoke at rallies, they were often introduced as great Americans, while their Democratic counterparts were portrayed as godless, anti-family, anti-business, and anti-success. Mother Jones magazine correctly described the Amway distributor force as "heavily influenced by the company's dual themes of Christian morality and free enterprise" and operating "like a private political army."

A typical example of the kind of derogatory political messages that are broadcast to Amway members, is one sent by Dexter Yager a few years back. The entire message was a condemnation of Hillary Clinton, disguised as a prayer. At one point, Yager says, God, melt that woman's brain, and that was one of the milder prayer lines.

The comments made by these people can only be described as bizarre. For instance, they claimed that women who chose a career over staying home and raising their children, either lacked values or were just plain stupid. They'd make other comments like, "Why do you think she's working, because she hates her kids?"

According to Eric, these kinds of remarks were often followed with a disclaimer such as, "I certainly understand the bad position that these women are in. Some are forced into the workplace, because they are married to a man that just isn't a man."

After a thorough brainwashing, Eric came to believe that Amway had given him and his wife the gift of membership in a group of like-minded people who believed in God, America, and the family. He reached the point where he bought into what co-founder DeVos claimed in his book, Believe! "This country was built on a religious heritage, and we had better get back to it. We had better start telling people that faith in God is the real strength of America!" DeVos wrote.

The Bush Family & Religious Heathens

Several members of the media have looked into the relationship between the two Bush Presidencies and members of the extreme Religious Right Wing. After reading up on that gang, the only thing I know for sure, is that there is not a single honest person in the whole bunch.

First off, lets take a look at evangelist Doug Wead, a divorced Baptist Minister, and former Diamond distributer, who is still a regular speaker at Amway conventions.

Wead was the first President Bush's liaison to the Christian Right and he later served as Special Assistant to the President in the first Bush White House. Time magazine referred to him as "the man who coined the phrase the compassionate conservative."

He was linked to the second President Bush early on as well. US News and World Report described Wead as an "old friend and advisor" to George W Bush. In the book, First Son, Author and Dallas Morning News Reporter, Bill Mintuglio, said that Wead was a man who had spent years "preparing strategy reports" for both President Bush and GW.

The book claims W was the family liaison to hard-edged conservatives and to Christian evangelical leaders, developing close ties to (among others) defeated ... congressional candidate Doug Wead, with his Amway and Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker connections.

In 1998, W decided it was his turn. Within days of his reelection as governor, W was secretly planning to run for President, because, as he said, he felt certain he had been called. He was encouraged in this belief by evangelical friends like Doug Wead and by his mother, who called him the Chosen One," according to Kitty Kelly's book, the Family.

Anticipating W's reelection, Wead had already written a memo encouraging him to run, You have been given a great opportunity, an opportunity that has been denied to many who have sought it. It is a gift that has rarely been extended. It might not ever be extended again, Wead wrote.

Years earlier, Wead had lost his own Congressional bid after Republican Senator Barry Goldwater, threw his support behind Wead's Democratic opponent, and stunned the Christian community with the remark, "I don't think God should be sold for money."

Goldwater was obviously a good judge of character and realized that it would be better to have a Democrat in office than a charlatan like Wead. And he was absolutely right, because as it turns out, Wead's past with Amway is even shadier than most people know.

At one time, Wead and his ex-wife Gloria, were both Diamond distributors, sponsored by Dexter and Birdie Yager. Wead earned large sums of money by speaking at Amway functions throughout the Yager organization.

Wead and another kingpin, Jean Godzich, eventually branched out and set up an Amway in France. In 1986, the French government began investigating it and decided the company was a dangerous mind-control cult, and a fraudulent business. Amway France terminated the distributorship of Godzich, from whose group most of the complaints had originated.

So what do Wead and Godzich do next? They set up a new MLM in France, called Groupement or GEPM. Its product line consisted of Amway products, its business structure was identical to Amway France, and its cultic activities were just as blatant as they were in the first operation.

After receiving numerous complaints about GEPM, French authorities moved in to shut it down, but this time it issued criminal arrest warrants, 13 for the company's distributors, and 2 for Godzich and Wead. Godzich took all the cash and fled the country and Wead never returned to France.

This man is the same Doug Wead, who 2 years later, would become a White House Aide to the first President Bush, and spiritual adviser to the second. God help us!!!

Some Religious Top Guns Need Extra Protection

The Amway pyramid fraud scheme seems to offer steady employment. If you are being investigated or arrested in one country or state, all you have to do is move along to another and set up shop again. Defrocked religious zealots seem to get away with doing this time and time again.

For example, Don Storms is an Executive Diamond with Amway. He is also an ex-minister, who spent 13 years traveling the country with a gospel quartet, before teaming up with Jim Bakker and becoming a senior vice president at the PTL Club. In 1979, he and wife Ruth started their Amway business. Today, Storms is a real estate developer, in addition to his Amway business, according to MLM Survivor.com on July 13, 1999.

Don's buddy, Kevin Trudeau, is a prolific marketer, but with a vary shady past. He is a twice-convicted felon and has served time in prison for credit card fraud. The FTC has prosecuted him a couple times for concocting fraudulent infomercials and at one time or another, he has been under investigations by 18 state Attorneys General, and the US Postal Service.

Trudeau was once involved with the MLM company, Nutrition for Life, Inc (NFLI). But that involvement came to an abrupt halt, after the SEC began investigating his recruitment practices. On April 17, 1996, the Illinois Attorney General filed a lawsuit against Trudeau, and his partner, for running an illegal pyramid scheme that was set up to peddle motivational books and tapes. The State of Michigan also ordered him to stop all marketing in that state related to his business the Trudeau Marketing Group (TMG).

So what do the Ex-Pastor and Ex-Con have in common? Quixtar. Their Quixtar/Trudeau connection was revealed in a spam e-mail, which stated in part:
"PLEASE CONTACT ME RIGHT AWAY! URGENT! URGENT! URGENT! DON'T LET THIS ONE GET AWAY FROM YOU. THE LARGEST, MOST EXPLOSIVE MLM OPPORTUNITY OF ALL TIME IS NOW UNDERWAY. IT IS UNIMAGINABLY HUGE. HUGE AMOUNTS OF MONEY ARE BEHIND IT, HUGE CORPORATIONS LIKE MICROSOFT AND IBM,. . .

"IT IS VITALLY IMPORTANT THAT YOU RESERVE YOUR POSITION NOW IN THE TRUDEAU TRAINING TEAM ORGANIZATION, WHICH NOW WITHOUT QUESTION THE MOST UNBELIEVABLE MLM MARKETING GROUP IN HISTORY. KEVIN TRUDEAU, WHO IS THE HUGE IN THE TV INFOMERCIAL BUSINESS WORLDWIDE, AND HIS ORGANIZATION OF INFORMERCIAL DISTRIBUTORS (TO WHICH I BELONG) ARE BUILDING AN EXCLUSIVE MARKETING ORGANIZATION IN COOPERATION WITH AND DIRECTLY DOWNLINE FROM THE BIGGEST LEADERS IN THE NETWORK MARKETING INDUSTRY TODAY, THE JODY VICTOR, DEXTER YAGER, DON STORMS, BLAINE ATHORN GROUP."
How's that for Amway name-dropping? A little research by MLM Survivor.com, revealed the following: On June 30, 1999, Trudeau placed an announcement on the TMG's voicemail system. It seems that his long-time buddy and ex-business associate, Blaine Athorne, (who fired him after his 1989 credit card fraud) hired the TMG in an exclusive relationship with his Amway/Quixtar organization.

Trudeau briefly noted his earlier job with network marketing, but claimed it was the changing dynamics in the company, which made it impossible for him to continue as a distributor. "I no longer could promote that business. . . [because of] disagreement in management."

Oh really? Could that disagreement have had something to do with his conviction for pyramid fraud, or the $1 million fine that he had to pay as a result of his infomercial fraud? Or maybe it was about the Postal Service investigation or the umpteen investigations by state Attorneys General. Who knows?

About Quixtar, Trudeau says: "I believe in my heart of hearts is the ultimate network marketing opportunity of all times. . ." One of the claims he makes on behalf of Quixtar is: "You'll be able to buy hundreds of thousands and eventually millions of products at very good pricing -- similar to Sam's Club." Then comes the big push!

"I have chosen after multiple meetings with corporate executives, top distributors and lawyers that it would be in the best interests of everyone if I did not become a distributor in Amway or Quixtar. I have formed a company called the Trudeau Training Team. The Trudeau Training Team has signed an exclusive marketing and sales arrangement with Storms Enterprises Inc. . . Don Storms has personally sponsored my long-time friend and business associate Blaine Athorne. Blaine Athorne is going to be the founding distributor in our downline organization. . . My company has signed an exclusive marketing and sales training contract with Blaine Athorne's distributorship and downline, and Don Storms.

"Many of the marketing strategies that I've employed in the past will be utilized in this organization."

What marketing strategy is he referring to here? Is there any other, besides the old standard run-of-the-mill pyramid scheme?

Trudeau says Don Storms is "one of the greatest network marketers of all time," and Storms says, "Kevin Trudeau's training [is] the best in the world."

So here it is for all to see, a prime example of the quality of ethical and legal behavior we can expect from Amway/Quixtar and its distributors.

More Secretive Religious Groups

Amway founder Richard DeVos is a member of the Council for National Policy (CNP). A group described as "the Most Powerful Conservative Group You've Never Heard Of," by ABC News in a May, 2004 report, that noted the group's extraordinary secrecy.

If you want to do a little Republican name-dropping, just recite the names of the 500 or so members of the CNP. They include Christian Coalition president Pat Robertson; political strategist Ralph Reed; Sen Jesse Helms; Congressmen d**k Armey and Tom Delay; Gun Owners of America head Larry Pratt; Oliver North; Texas billionaire Nelson Bunker Hunt; Focus on the Family head James Dobson; and former presidential candidate Gary Bauer.

"According to a membership roster ... other notable former and current members include: Attorney General John Ashcroft and Health and Human Services Secretary Tommy Thompson. (Both are no longer members); Christian businessmen like Holland and Jeffrey Coors, of the brewing company; two of fundamentalist Christianity's most prominent end-of-the-world theologists: John Ankerberg, and Dave Breese," ABC noted.

DeVos is also a major supporter of a right-wing, Christian non-profit entity called Gospel Communications International, which has annual revenues of $6.7 million. Its Board of Directors reads like a Who's Who of Amway kingpins, with DeVos as Chairman and his son, Doug DeVos, as Vice-Chairman. Out of 15 Directors, 10 are from Amway.

Launched in 1995, Gospel.com, claims to be the largest Christian website on the Internet. In 1999, it claimed that it had more than 780 million hits from people in 216 different countries and territories around the world.

During 1998, Gospel was responsible for showing videos and films to over 200 million people in schools, churches, homes, prisons, hospitals, and on television. To give you an idea of what kind of information was contained in those films, consider that 2 books that were being promoted on its website as of Sept 14, 2004, included, From Reveler to Revelation - the Journey of President George W Bush; and A Greater Freedom: Stories of Faith from Operation Iraqi Freedom, by Oliver North.

And of course no religious nutcase tale would be complete if Jerry Falwell wasnt mentioned. Not to worry, ole Jerry is in the loop. Amway Kingpin, Dexter Yager, not only financially supports Falwell's Liberty University, one of Yager's sons sits on the University's board of directors.

Dexter Yager is such a prince, that years ago, he even let Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker broadcast their religious show from his home, after they lost the PTL ministry, according to Mother Jones Magazine. What a guy.

So How Much Money Are We Talking About?

How much money are we talking about? Well first of all, Amway perks are not limited to money contributions. For example, when describing the events at the 2000 Republican Convention, the New York Times wrote, For the party's top underwriters, there will be an array of gold-plated events in Philadelphia, including cocktails with Gen. Colin L. Powell and an evening cruise on the Delaware River aboard the Enterprise,' the yacht owned by Richard M. DeVos, the Amway founder, who is a Bush supporter.

Four years later on Sept 2, 2004, the Detroit Free Press described another boat ride. Insiders were feted aboard d**k and Betsy DeVos' yacht at the 2004 Republican National Convention in New York, as well as Jay Van Andel's lavish 169-footer.

Besides yachts trips, we are looking at a whole lot of money being passed around. For example, in 1994, Amway and Anschutz were the top two donors, each giving $250,000 toward a $2.5-million soft money contribution to the RNC. It was the largest single political donation on record.

In return, the Amway big-wigs are treated very well. On July 18, 1996, DeVos was honored at a $3 million Republican fundraiser, where keynote speaker, Bob Dole, paid tribute to him. A week later it was reported that Amway had donated $1.3 million to the San Diego Convention and Visitors Bureau, to pay for Republican infomercials airing on Pat Robertson's Family Channel during the convention, according to the Sept/Oct 1996, issue of Mother Jones magazine.

Although the Democrats filed a complaint and blocked the payoff, it demonstrates how one hand washes the other when it comes to Amway, the Religious Right Wing, and the Republican Party.

In the Bush/Cheney campaign 2000, Betsy DeVos, daughter-in-law of Richard DeVos, became a so-called Bush Pioneer by raising over $100,000. And overall, in 2000, Amway was the second largest contributor of soft money to the RNC, with donations totaling $1,138,500, second only to Reynolds Tobacco.

In 2004, the 527 Progress for America received a bundle. The latest crop of donors includes Amway founders Richard DeVos and Jay Van Andel, who each chipped in $2 million, reports Newsweek, The Secret Money War, Sept 20, 2004.

So what does Amway get in return for all this money? A lot. But most importantly, it allows Amway to operate with political protection against criminal investigations that would lead to the collapse of not only Amway, but the entire MLM industry.

Pyramid Scheme Alert Takes On The MLM

In June 2000, the first consumer advocacy group was formed that focuses directly on pyramid scheme fraud. Pyramid Scheme Alert, Inc (PSA) is a non-profit organization, founded by three activist/authors, with support and encouragement from attorneys, former regulators and private citizens all over the world.

PSA Directors, Robert FitzPatrick and Susanna Perkins, have written an excellent white paper report entitled, "The Amway Industry," which details the damaging and corrupting influence of the MLM industry on consumers and democracy. It is by far, the most thorough and comprehensive report available for people looking for information about the MLM industry. **

PSA also has a website that is full of information, which receives more than 150,000 hits per month. The organization provides answers to a stream of consumer inquiries each day. Several of its directors have served as expert witnesses in private and government sponsored court proceedings involving MLM companies. PSA's findings has been referenced, quoted, and featured in reports on NBC, ABC, BBC and in many newspapers and magazines around the world.

It was surely a welcome sight for consumers. For decades now, people have went up against Amway with very little success, and for good reason. Amway attorneys routinely threaten website publishers with libel suits. State Attorney General offices say they are too small and financially strapped to take on MLMs in court, and appeals to the FTC have consistently gone unanswered.

Amway Will Be In Business Until Bush Leaves Office

In light of the above, you can bet that Amway will not be closing its doors anytime soon. Its illegal scheme will remain in tact for at least as long as Bush is in the White House.

But there is one oddity about the Bush-Amway gang that Eric recently pointed out. In most cases of fraud, crooks don't steal from their own. So this makes Amway unique, because it pays the current administration to protect a multi-billion dollar fraud that targets Conservative Christian Republicans almost exclusively.

Eric said he wondered what kind of animals would eat their own? If my memory serves me correctly, I think pigs do that.

You asked me where my wife is in all this. Well when she's not working right by my side or going to her or my many doctors appointments, she sometimes puts in some time helping out at the School for the Blind and Visually Impaired. You see she has retinitis pigmentosa. She has been featured on local television advocating for more accessability for the handicaped (very succesfuly).She has also been featured on films promoting the School for the Blind and Visually Impaired as an example of how valuable a part of society a handicapped person can be.

She is a kind and loving person who supports me and my beliefs completely. She is also a business owner in her own right.She doesn't need disability payments because she is productive as am I.She laughs with me when she reads the posts here. You see, she bought herself some software from Freedom Scientific that reads to her either from the internet or anything scanned on her scanner. She can also dictate e-mails or give the computer voice commands.She also helps out at the local food bank as this area has been hit hard by the Republican administrations wasteful and wrongful ways.

Alaska is suffering like every other state. We have a Republican Governor who apppointed his own daughter to the senate seat he vacated. And somehow in the last election she actually kept her seat.Our elections are overseen by the LT. Governor who is also a Republican. We also have a Republican Attorney General.The head of the Republican Party here has been fined for ethics violations three times including the highest fine in state history.Currently, our Governor and our Attorney General are being investigated in a clear case of conflict of interest.So, you see we have alot on our plates right now as we are activists as well as business owners.So, please don't feel as if my wife is snubbing you, she's just too busy to do more than laugh at you, April, James et al. But she and I both wish you and yours a Happy Holiday Season.

You're a libertarian and you voted for Kerry? Oh well.

Adam, I didn't say that you personally supported those laws that are blatantly unconstitutional. I'm just trying to make my point. A patriot is someone who loves their nation, supports it, and defends its values. After seeing your previous posts I want to believe you are a patriot but having you vote for that gourd Kerry makes me wonder a bit.

William in Texas - That article that you posted regarding Amway is just another fine example of the truth: there is no rule of law in America. When communists and nazis take over, the first thing to go is the rule of law. Sadly, the problems in this country go far beyond politics. It is the deterioration of basic human trust and morality that is destroying our country. Alas, the GOP is mostly to blame for most of the problems besetting the USA in the last fifty years or so. They passed most of the draconian laws that are stunting the growth of the people. They were also the political party that pushed for the Federal Reserve act, the same financial institution responsable for running our economy into the ground. Don't think the Democrats or Greens are any better.

Besides, the only true republicans are libertarians. Anyone else is a jobber or a self-righteous wannabe who doesn't know our nation very well.

No I've never been to prison. But you seem to be a little bit too familiar with the whole dropping the soap thing. Do you still get love letters from all your "BUBBA" JAILHOUSE HUUSBANDS?

I REPEAT I AM AN HONORABLY DISCHARGED VETERAN. I am a disabled vet. I am a patriot. I love my country, it's my government that I fear! Anyone who sees what is happening to our great nation and doesn't at least speak out is a sheep at best and a piece of crap coward at worst. Which one are you?

I'd be willing to bet when you gave up that little girl blue bird uniform, you traded it for a less than honorable discharge. Maybe the only real discharge was dripping out of you from too much soap dropping.LOL!

I don't have any idea why you would think I believe any of those laws are supportable, reasonable or even constitutional.And the list of bad laws that allow government interference goes on too long to list here.

The only reason I didn't vote for the honorable Libertarian candidate from Texas is that he was not the candidate that had a chance to defeat Bush. I surely did not want a Democrat in office. I just thought he couldn't be as dangerous to America and the rest of the world. If the mainstream media and the general public took the time to learn about what the Libertarian party stands for, we might be able to make some positive change in this the Greatest Nation the world has ever known. But unfortunatly, the average American is politicaly retarded. A third party would get the business as usual polititians off their asses and do some good for a change.

They may even start to earn their outrageous pay and benefit packages. Wouldn't that be refreshing?

DALE, it's good that April allowed you to speak out.Now that's refreshing. LOL!

I am curious, Jeff as to how it is you believe that the Pell grant is unpatriotic? The reason I ask is that I have a vested interest in this particular grant since it is helping to pay for my education. Now, I as I understand it, the Pell Grant gives money to underprivledged students so that they may offset the costs of higher education. This grant is open to all students whose EFC (expected family contribution) is under $2000. Now, that may seem like a bad idea to some, but to me it's good. If this grant were not available, I would be unable to go to college, as would about 90% of students across the nation. I would appreciate any input from you, Jeff. Also, what the heck is wrong with DOE, they are doing a huge investigation, that is greatly helping my school (fraud issues on behalf of a employee), if they just blew it off, like they could have, the school would have been closed, but they decided to investigate the allegations instead. Just another question I had for you. Look forward to hearing back soon.

By the way, with the evidence shown for it, it's kind of silly not to wear a seatbelt, itsn't it. Sure it's your choice, by why wouldn't you?

I am curious, Jeff as to how it is you believe that the Pell grant is unpatriotic? The reason I ask is that I have a vested interest in this particular grant since it is helping to pay for my education. Now, I as I understand it, the Pell Grant gives money to underprivledged students so that they may offset the costs of higher education. This grant is open to all students whose EFC (expected family contribution) is under $2000. Now, that may seem like a bad idea to some, but to me it's good. If this grant were not available, I would be unable to go to college, as would about 90% of students across the nation. I would appreciate any input from you, Jeff. Also, what the heck is wrong with DOE, they are doing a huge investigation, that is greatly helping my school (fraud issues on behalf of a employee), if they just blew it off, like they could have, the school would have been closed, but they decided to investigate the allegations instead. Just another question I had for you. Look forward to hearing back soon.

By the way, with the evidence shown for it, it's kind of silly not to wear a seatbelt, itsn't it. Sure it's your choice, by why wouldn't you?

I am curious, Jeff as to how it is you believe that the Pell grant is unpatriotic? The reason I ask is that I have a vested interest in this particular grant since it is helping to pay for my education. Now, I as I understand it, the Pell Grant gives money to underprivledged students so that they may offset the costs of higher education. This grant is open to all students whose EFC (expected family contribution) is under $2000. Now, that may seem like a bad idea to some, but to me it's good. If this grant were not available, I would be unable to go to college, as would about 90% of students across the nation. I would appreciate any input from you, Jeff. Also, what the heck is wrong with DOE, they are doing a huge investigation, that is greatly helping my school (fraud issues on behalf of a employee), if they just blew it off, like they could have, the school would have been closed, but they decided to investigate the allegations instead. Just another question I had for you. Look forward to hearing back soon.

By the way, with the evidence shown for it, it's kind of silly not to wear a seatbelt, itsn't it. Sure it's your choice, by why wouldn't you?

Congratulations! Never before on the Rip-Off Report has a single thread contained so many childish accusations, name-callings, and outrageous insults.

Some responders seem to have forgotten that, under our system of government, everyone, including foreigners, has a right to express an opinion. A magnificent facet of our country is that we have the freedom to disagree! Such variances of opinion should not be met with hoodlum-like attacks.

For that matter, the Rip-Off Report, as I understand it, is not strictly an American site. It is a world consumer site. Everyone, regardless of nationality, has the freedom, within the site rules, to say as they please.

As I have long understood the nature of this web site, it exists for the purpose of consumer reporting of scams, etc. One sane person earlier attempted to explain that this entire raving thread seems quite inappropriate. Now it has become so disgusting that it tends to diminish the overall value of the Rip-Off Report for its intended purpose.

Hi everyone,

I found this very interesting article. I highly recommend that everyone read it, then get the book "Merchants of Deception", by Eric Scheibeler. It is available for free at his website, but you will need Adobe Acrobat Reader, to download it.

The article...

------------------------------
December 7 by Evelyn J. Pringle

Bush + Republicans + Amway = Fraud
1st in a Series on Amway Consumer Fraud Scandal

Former Amway insider, Eric Scheibeler, has written a must read new book called "Merchants Of Deception." This one time member of the Amway motivational cult has turned whistleblower and FBI witness and boy does he have some tales to tell.

In the book, Scheibeler exposes an Enron sized fraud with Amway raking In billions of dollars annually, and the billionaire founding families being the largest soft money contributors to the GOP, with funds that have been generated from what may turn out to be one of the largest consumer fraud scandals in history, perpetrated by the world's largest multi-level marketing company (MLM).

The former Federal Auditor has also has a website, MerchantsOfDeception.com, that reveals the close ties between Amway and Republicans.

As a life long conservative, Scheibeler was discouraged to both discover and document that "the GOP seems to have been hijacked by political payoffs from an industry that is rife with consumer deception, and bogus 'business opportunity' selling." He goes on to say that it's "time this secret influence peddling and the harm it causes consumers and our democracy are revealed. I was on the inside for nine years. I saw it with my own eyes. I also have the internal documents, financials, and the audio and video tapes to prove it."

Merchants of Deception exposes the company's deceptive marketing of phony business opportunities and other secret scams by Amway's top promoters to sell so-called success tools to unsuspecting recruits all over the world. It also contains first hand accounts of the Kingpin's fraudulent recruitment practices that have led to an endless stream of lawsuits.

Scheibeler & Dateline Team Up In Sting Operation

In addition to writing a book and setting up a web site, Scheibeler provided key documentation for the May 7, 2004, NBC Dateline program that televised an expose of the secretive and illegal pyramid business run by Amway & Quixtar kingpins.

During its investigation, Dateline smuggled hidden cameras into recruitment meetings in order to document the company's deceptive claims and promises, and to expose its multi-million dollar 'secret' business. The expose verified the common allegation made in numerous consumer lawsuits, that the company is merely a front for a hidden pyramid business based on selling books, tapes, and registrations to seminars and rallies to new recruits, with nearly all participants losing money.

According to Dateline, the FBI and the IRS are conducting investigations into the scheme.

Republicans Will Do Anything For A Buck

Amway's billionaire founders, Rich DeVos and Jay VanAndel, have been the largest soft money contributors to the GOP on and off for the past 20 years. Together, DeVos and VanAndel gave $4,000,000 to a 527, just 45 days prior to the last election. And you can bet that they demand (and get) a bang for every red cent.

Scheibeler's book reveals how GOP donations and corporate promotion have resulted in a trade off for political protection and tax reduction benefits for the MLM. His web site provides a goldmine of documentation to back up his claims, including audiotapes.

By going to the site, you can hear Newt Gingrich promoting Amway at a large event, or you can listen to audio clips of then Texas Governor George W Bush. There is even a clip sent by high-level kingpin distributors from a private meeting within the White House.

Scheibeler tells how some members of the GOP have been paid as much as $100,000 for a single promotional appearance at an Amway seminar. The list of high-paid Republican speakers who have appeared at rallies over the years, reads like a list of who's who in the GOP. It includes former Presidents George Bush, Ronald Reagan, Gerald Ford and former Vice Presidents Bob Dole and Dan Quayle, along with other GOP heavyweights like Gingrich, Oliver North, Senator Rick Santorum and even the latest SE Regional Chairman for the Bush-Cheney '04 campaign, Ralph Reed.

Scheibeler reveals just how much Republican law makers have given back to Amway in return for the large speaking fees and contributions, which includes tax breaks and a blanket of immunity from investigations into the company's illegal business practices. In hindsight, it is more than evident that the money bought a whole lot of regulatory protection for Amway.

Merchant's of Deception provides a good example of how the racket works in the case of Newt Gingrich. His speaking fees are reported to be in the $50,000 range. The books explains how, after accepting speaking fees, Gingrich arranged a reported last-minute modification in a comprehensive tax bill that allegedly provided a $283 million tax break to just one company -- Amway.

One report called the tax break a $283 million payoff. "The payoff for Amway was not in the original House or Senate version of the tax bill. House Speaker Newt Gingrich intervened at the last minute to help get the special tax break inserted in the bill." (San Antonio Express-News Aug 12,1997).

Who Else Is Involved In The Amway Scandal?

Back in 1997, syndicated columnist Molly Ivins described Amway's Lobbying power in Congress, "Amway has its own caucus in Congress. Yes, the Amway caucus. Five Republican House members are also Amway distributors: Reps. Sue Myrick of North Carolina, Jon Christensen of Nebraska, d**k Chrysler of Michigan, Richard Rombo of California and John Ensign of Nevada. Their informal caucus meets several times a year with Amway bigwigs to discuss policy matters affecting the company, including China's trade status," she said.

Ivins also noted that, "House Majority Whip Tom DeLay, a onetime Amway salesman, also remains close to the company." Which figures, because everybody knows that if there's a buck to be made from a scam, DeLay is sure to be lurking around in the shadows somewhere nearby.

And the fund-raising power of this pyramid company is not limited to the company's top dogs. The downline distributors are often pressured to produce large sums of money by soliciting small contributions from a great number of people. And that money can add up fast, considering that in 2000, Amway reportedly had over 700,000 distributors.

In 1997, a request from Congresswoman Sue Myrick to Amway Kingpin, Dexter Yager, for help in her fund raising events, increased her campaign war chest by more than $20,000 with small contributions from distributors. The next year, another fundraiser aimed at distributors brought in over $35,000.

W and Amway Are Tight

When it comes to W and Amway, it's a give and take situation. They mutually provide "quid pro quo" favors to each other. For instance, during the 2000 campaign, W used the company's voicemail network to reach thousands of Kingpin Dexter Yager's distributors with a personalized message from none other than Bush himself.

Then last summer, when Amway co-founder Rich DeVos attended a dinner party at the home of a friend in Grand Rapids, MI, he got seated right across the dinner table from W, according to the Orlando Sentinel.

DeVos isn't shy about discussing his contributions to Bush. "People ask Me sometimes why I support Bush, "DeVos said, "I just tell them, 'Because When I walk into the room, he says, "Hi, Rich." ' I've been a friend to the family for a long time."

"I give the max," DeVos said proudly. "People talk about buying access, but all I can tell you is that politicians know the people who support them," he told the Sentinel.

And DeVos ain't lying, he has been very generous to W over the years. The $2,000 campaign Limit that he gives directly to Bush, is but a fraction of what he actually contributes. His wife, kids, and their spouses, also make large donations to W and other members of the GOP.

During the 2000 election cycle, DeVos, his wife, and son contributed a combined sum of $760,000 to Republican candidates and causes, and according to FEC records, Amway itself contributed a whopping $1.3 million, with every dime going to Republicans.

Favored politicians are also aware that the Amway perks don't necessarily end once they leave office. For example, DeVos has remained such great friends with President Ford over the years, that when Ford travels, it's often on DeVos' private jet.

How Much Does W Protect Amway - Let Me Count The Ways

Scheibeler's reporting provides a well documented expose of the Bush administration's direct involvement in the regulatory protection of Amway, and verifies that DeVos does get a lot of bang for every buck.

As we all know, there are rampant cases of improper influence in the Bush White House. Right off the top my head, energy and drug companies come to mind. But Amway is different; its primary goal is not merely to rip off tax payers. Its to literally protect its very existence. The MLM completely relies on political protection to prevent it from being shut down by regulators and law enforcement.

And Bush has demonstrated that he was more than willing to engage in the protection racket.

On his web site, Scheibeler is highly critical of the FTC, and its current chairman, Bush appointee, Timothy Muris, mainly because of the agency's utter refusal to properly investigate and/or prosecute pyramid schemes, despite the overwhelming number of well documented complaints that have been filed with the agency.

Without a doubt, Amway's business practices are flagrant violations of FTC rules. Three separate federal court rulings have defined these types of pyramid sales as illegal schemes, and there are any number of websites on the internet that document the financial harm caused to millions of people by Amway's deceptive recruitment schemes. Yet, the Bush administration has consistently ignored the company's violations.

Scheibeler's web site attracts testimonials from Amway victims all over the world. Complaints have come in from Australia, New Zealand, UK, Germany, France, Canada, and Slovakia. And the whole world watches as the FTC turns a blind eye to the blatant exportation of this "American" fraud.

In fact, it could be said that Bush has aided and abetted Amway's criminal behavior. To begin with, appointing Tim Muris to head the FTC was the equivalent of setting a fox loose in the chicken coup. Before his appointment, Muris was as an attorney with the antitrust division of the law firm Howrey, Simon, Arnold and White, LLP. And guess who the firm's antitrust division counts as one of its largest clients? Amway.

So here we have it, while Muris was at Howrey, and while he was in charge of the FTC, his former law partners were representing Amway in a class action lawsuit initiated by a former Amway distributor that alleged that the MLM's recruitment program was an illegal pyramid scheme.

And there's more. The MLM's influence with the FTC doesn't end with Muris, it extends beyond him. During the Clinton administration, a company named Equinox (an Amway clone), was prosecuted for violating the pyramid scheme fraud statutes. One of Equinox's expert witnesses was David Scheffman, and he testified against the FTC and defended the scheme.

Scheffman claimed that the company's business model was legitimate and not a pyramid scheme, based on the assertion that company operated just like Amway. In the end, Equinox lost the court battle and was shut down, but guess where Scheffman ended up? Muris made him the Chief Economist at the FTC.

Does the information above indicate any conflict of interest violations within the Bush administration? Probably not, since the term conflict of interest was obviously deleted from the White House vocabulary when Bush moved in.
-------------------------------
This article is the first in an investigative series covering the Amway Scandal.

You have the opportunity, for a brief period, to obtain a free download of the entire book Merchants of Deception at MerchantsOfDeception.com. Review the web site and see the same documentation that the FBI, the Criminal Investigation Division of the IRS, NBC Dateline, the PA and NY Attorney General's Office, foreign governments, and the FTC have had for some time.

Thanks for letting me share. I can hardly wait for all the ignorant insults that will inevitably come my way via, the pro-Bushers.

Okay, Adam I agree maybe I was a bit too harsh with that last posting. It's just that there are many false patriots (tratriots) out there and it's so difficult sometimes to tell what one's real intentions are.

Want to know what a real patriot is? I have the official definition from the Websters College dictionary:

patriot : "a person who loves, supports, and defends his or her country and its interests"

Here is why Bush is an inept and "dishonorable" false patriot (tratriot):

1. He hates America. His lies and actions (or inactions) speak for themselves.

2. He does not support America. He has wasted not only huge sums of money for frivilous and unconstitutional programs and pork spending but has done nothing about the Social Security scam, the Federal Reserve, the DOE, the DOC, the FCC, etc... along with all the other tyrannical regulatory agencies that really have no business telling free human beings how to live and act.

3. He does not defend America. The only thing even close to defending America that Bush has done is letting the ban on assault rifles and machine guns expire and even most of the Republican Party supports strict gun control. Any of the young people gullible enough to sign up to fight in Iraq can also attest to Bush's unwillingness to protect our nation: body armor and armored vehicles are in short supply and Bush lets them fight without it.

Now you people see why Bush is a false partriot?

Many people claim to be libertarian but are libertarian in name only. They claim to support freedom but will subdue it for their own personal gain. The Libertarian Party is a good example of this. Many of the libertarians hold positions of power in many states but they often will not eliminate their own jobs (even though it would follow the party's philosophy) because they only follow their greedy desire to satisfy themselves at the expense of society. In a nutshell, they're modern day Federalists. They want all kinds of freedom yet they want federal power to exercise the minimalist government ideology. They're second worst in terms of corruption, follow only by modern day Loyalists (Democrats/Greens and Republicans/Constitution Party members).

You think you're a patriot? If you say so and yet you support the following laws and programs, you're a hypocrite.

Federal seatbelt laws

Drinking laws

Federal Pell grants for education

FCC authority

Gun laws in general

Patriot Act (an oxymoron if you read the actual act)

There are many more but I can't list them all. Hopefully that clears things up for us all.

Adam,
You wanted a response from me, you've now got it. It is none of your d**n business why I have or have not served our great country. So get off your high a*s right now. My wife is no b???h, she has gone above and beyond what most anyone else in this world would do for those with much less. She is extremely well respected by business associates, friends, families, and so on.

I don't like Bush, I don't like anything about Bush, so who here is making the accusations? Tell me something, Adrunk, why are you able to respond to each person, sometimes before their posts are made? As I read some interesting facts that another poster has made on you, calling you a troll and a Shawnagunk, whatever, I found it quite interesting to see that these points made are seen here, on this post. Maybe you are this Shawna', maybe you are a troll, you seem to be able to get through on issues before anyone else. Huh?

I've stayed off this specific post as I felt there was no place I needed to add my opinions too, not because my wife is a "ballbuster." My wife supports anything and everything I do or have done. Tell us something, Where is your "wife" in all this? Do you even have one, I can't honestly believe any woman would want a man that acts the way you do. You have gone above and beyond any way nessesary to start something with me. Do you feel big and bad as you sit behind a computer, let's see you approach any of us on the streets, you couldn't and wouldn't! Don't pretend to be something you're obviously not!

Like my wife has made clear to you, when you can get on this site, like all of us, and act like a human being, then maybe we'll take you more seriously!

Adam,
You wanted a response from me, you've now got it. It is none of your d**n business why I have or have not served our great country. So get off your high a*s right now. My wife is no b???h, she has gone above and beyond what most anyone else in this world would do for those with much less. She is extremely well respected by business associates, friends, families, and so on.

I don't like Bush, I don't like anything about Bush, so who here is making the accusations? Tell me something, Adrunk, why are you able to respond to each person, sometimes before their posts are made? As I read some interesting facts that another poster has made on you, calling you a troll and a Shawnagunk, whatever, I found it quite interesting to see that these points made are seen here, on this post. Maybe you are this Shawna', maybe you are a troll, you seem to be able to get through on issues before anyone else. Huh?

I've stayed off this specific post as I felt there was no place I needed to add my opinions too, not because my wife is a "ballbuster." My wife supports anything and everything I do or have done. Tell us something, Where is your "wife" in all this? Do you even have one, I can't honestly believe any woman would want a man that acts the way you do. You have gone above and beyond any way nessesary to start something with me. Do you feel big and bad as you sit behind a computer, let's see you approach any of us on the streets, you couldn't and wouldn't! Don't pretend to be something you're obviously not!

Like my wife has made clear to you, when you can get on this site, like all of us, and act like a human being, then maybe we'll take you more seriously!

Adam,
You wanted a response from me, you've now got it. It is none of your d**n business why I have or have not served our great country. So get off your high a*s right now. My wife is no b???h, she has gone above and beyond what most anyone else in this world would do for those with much less. She is extremely well respected by business associates, friends, families, and so on.

I don't like Bush, I don't like anything about Bush, so who here is making the accusations? Tell me something, Adrunk, why are you able to respond to each person, sometimes before their posts are made? As I read some interesting facts that another poster has made on you, calling you a troll and a Shawnagunk, whatever, I found it quite interesting to see that these points made are seen here, on this post. Maybe you are this Shawna', maybe you are a troll, you seem to be able to get through on issues before anyone else. Huh?

I've stayed off this specific post as I felt there was no place I needed to add my opinions too, not because my wife is a "ballbuster." My wife supports anything and everything I do or have done. Tell us something, Where is your "wife" in all this? Do you even have one, I can't honestly believe any woman would want a man that acts the way you do. You have gone above and beyond any way nessesary to start something with me. Do you feel big and bad as you sit behind a computer, let's see you approach any of us on the streets, you couldn't and wouldn't! Don't pretend to be something you're obviously not!

Like my wife has made clear to you, when you can get on this site, like all of us, and act like a human being, then maybe we'll take you more seriously!

David plesae get off it. Obviously you have not listend to the rest of us who do not harbor HATE against other peoples opinions and want to have an intelligent discussion on this forum. And no I will not leave the country and pick up an AK47 to fight in Iraq just because you are so delussioned to think that only YOUR vote counts. And thanks Christopher for posting. You are absolutely right that your initial post resulted in a lot of hate and not enough debate. I am sure that if the editors on this site were really doing their job, then half of this crap would've been deleted anyway.

And as for you Adam... I was defending you, but man you are digging yourself in a deep hole. Sometimes you have some interesting points to make, but no one is listening because you present yourself in the wrong way. Calling names and pointing out April's condition is no business of ours and you have no right continue to make it an issue with this forum, when it has nothing to do with the Iraqi war, why we went, or 9/11. You have gone overboard a little too much...

You have some nerve. How dare you rant and rave about acussations made about someone, when you have been made a foul of by Robin, Tim, me, etc. etc. etc. You claim that anyone who is against you is either a traitor, a sissy, uneducated, on welfare, etc. You use horrendous language, etc. As anyone can simply read. You have come to this site with absolutely no real intentions but to tick off as many people as you possibly can. No matter how many times your put in your place, you still come back with the same BS.

By the way, before you go on and on about someone's spelling, you'd better check yours. That really makes my point! My husband busts his a*s day in and day out, unlike you. He has much better things to do then sit here and BS with you all day long because you have no life. You preach about how your this and that, then when confronted as to things you've previously stated, you back down and that person is whatever you want to call them that day. As someone else has pointed out, you are nothing more than an insect, a troll on this site, nothing more, nothing less. Guess that's why you disappeared from other reports.

When you get a life, stop abussing your IV drips and have something other then abussing people on this site, then and only then will people take you seriously! Maybe you should finally tend to those kids you claim to have such control over, LOL!

You're about the most delusional, paranoid bag of wind I've ever seen. This forum is not the place for you to piss and moan about politics. The only reason anyone responds to you at all is out of disgust at your poisonous drivel aimed at our government and our President, repeating tired wornout fantasies about the honorable Bush family made up by your fellow left wing freaks who continue to fail in their attempt to subvert the United States Government by doing things like sue in Federal court to win the White House. You and all of your s**t head commie bastards really should leave the country and tie a rag on your head, go to Iraq and pick up an ak-47, start running around yelling that dumb a*s allahu ackbar thing, and just take a pot shot at our troops to let them know how you feel about our government, so our devil dogs there can promptly remove your collective dumb asses from the gene pool.

You're about the most delusional, paranoid bag of wind I've ever seen. This forum is not the place for you to piss and moan about politics. The only reason anyone responds to you at all is out of disgust at your poisonous drivel aimed at our government and our President, repeating tired wornout fantasies about the honorable Bush family made up by your fellow left wing freaks who continue to fail in their attempt to subvert the United States Government by doing things like sue in Federal court to win the White House. You and all of your s**t head commie bastards really should leave the country and tie a rag on your head, go to Iraq and pick up an ak-47, start running around yelling that dumb a*s allahu ackbar thing, and just take a pot shot at our troops to let them know how you feel about our government, so our devil dogs there can promptly remove your collective dumb asses from the gene pool.

You're about the most delusional, paranoid bag of wind I've ever seen. This forum is not the place for you to piss and moan about politics. The only reason anyone responds to you at all is out of disgust at your poisonous drivel aimed at our government and our President, repeating tired wornout fantasies about the honorable Bush family made up by your fellow left wing freaks who continue to fail in their attempt to subvert the United States Government by doing things like sue in Federal court to win the White House. You and all of your s**t head commie bastards really should leave the country and tie a rag on your head, go to Iraq and pick up an ak-47, start running around yelling that dumb a*s allahu ackbar thing, and just take a pot shot at our troops to let them know how you feel about our government, so our devil dogs there can promptly remove your collective dumb asses from the gene pool.

You're about the most delusional, paranoid bag of wind I've ever seen. This forum is not the place for you to piss and moan about politics. The only reason anyone responds to you at all is out of disgust at your poisonous drivel aimed at our government and our President, repeating tired wornout fantasies about the honorable Bush family made up by your fellow left wing freaks who continue to fail in their attempt to subvert the United States Government by doing things like sue in Federal court to win the White House. You and all of your s**t head commie bastards really should leave the country and tie a rag on your head, go to Iraq and pick up an ak-47, start running around yelling that dumb a*s allahu ackbar thing, and just take a pot shot at our troops to let them know how you feel about our government, so our devil dogs there can promptly remove your collective dumb asses from the gene pool.

Adam, did you miss the "act intelligent" part? Aren't you the same c*m-bubble that claims to be a libetarian but voted for a different party?Your loyalty to your party is probably the same you showed your unit when you were wounded, but playing with G.I. Joes isn't real anyways. What did you do in the service? If I tried to listen to anything you had to say, I probably would end up like a whiny a*s coward too. I don't think you were ever in the military, I think it was prison. And everyone knows that "Bubba" most likely had fun with your big mouth.

Was it fun picking up the soap for everyone even though it didn't happen in the showers? People like you make me laugh. You have your views like evryone else but for some reason(your small manhood), you have to be beligerent and act tough. And after you read this, you'll get angry and think you are responding with something really witty. BUT, in reality, you are just giving us another oppurtunity to laugh at you. Thanks and I hope you drown the next time you go ice fishing.

I don't get why you would call me a false patriot.Any true patriot speaks out against his govenment when it does something stupid. As for coveting my neighbors property, i have no idea where you got that idea. I am a liberterian and and proud and patriotic American veteran. You however, leave me shaking my head at your lack of logic.

I don't get why you would call me a false patriot.Any true patriot speaks out against his govenment when it does something stupid. As for coveting my neighbors property, i have no idea where you got that idea. I am a liberterian and and proud and patriotic American veteran. You however, leave me shaking my head at your lack of logic.

I don't get why you would call me a false patriot.Any true patriot speaks out against his govenment when it does something stupid. As for coveting my neighbors property, i have no idea where you got that idea. I am a liberterian and and proud and patriotic American veteran. You however, leave me shaking my head at your lack of logic.

I don't get why you would call me a false patriot.Any true patriot speaks out against his govenment when it does something stupid. As for coveting my neighbors property, i have no idea where you got that idea. I am a liberterian and and proud and patriotic American veteran. You however, leave me shaking my head at your lack of logic.

you still make unfounded accusations about me,but that isn't my problem with you. You seem to think you are either more intelligent or better informed than anyone that disagrees with your mispelled and completely inane remarks.Let me inform you, violence and death do not teach people to behave in a civilized manner. As a matter of fact , it can only cause problems. You seem to support this stupid war in Iraq. Yet you refuse to tell us why your sissy husband has noy volunteered to fight there. Don't you ever speak ill of me or any other disabled veteran again. You have absoluitly no right or knowledge of wich you speak.

And I still think Dale is a reall sissy if he doesn't have the testicels to back up his remarks. But I'm sure thats the way you like it April. YOU are one ballbreaking b***h who should be on the front lines.Give Dale a break you shrew!And another thing, if you can't serve due to SLE, you really don't have anything to say on this matter,do you? Give Dale a break, he might be one hell of a lot more man than you would ever want him to be

Are you ashamed that your husband is a sissy non-combatant weasel boy? If he is, it's probably because you never let him leave the house with his testicles in his own possesion. You have made many false accusations about me over the last few months. However not one of them was true or even spelled corectly. People like you make it very easy to point out what a lack of education can do to a person.

Thank goodness, my children are learning from me and not you. You are obviously a whaked out shrew of a woman and your poor husband, Dale just doesn't have the cajones to reign you in.I'd be willing to bet that Dale would gladly go to Iraq just to get away from your nasty contentious attitude.Of course he won't be able to come online and agree, because you won't let him have the testicles long enough to speak his own mind.

I am the original poster of this report and just wanted to say a few (well, maybe more than a few) things. This is the first time in probably a year that I have read the thread. I swore off responding after so many (some, over and over) resorted to ridiculous name calling and hatful personal attacks. It, sadly, continues to be a meeting place of the internet-heroe motor mouths with nothing constuctive to say other than "Bin-Christopher Strikes Again" or "I hope your husband gets drafted and dies". Are you kidding me? I am still, however, amazed at the debate and the passion of many posters and responders.
Thank you to the many international visitors for your thoughts, it's great to know that you all have your varying opinions and are willing to express them. Special thanks to the gentleman from South Africa for your thoughtful comments. You are right when you say our country and Constitution are beautiful things. I hope you understand that the comments of those here that are nothing more or less than mindless verbal attacks by esteemless automatons do not reflect those of most Americans.
I have only read the last 1/3 of the posts because there are just too many at this point but I must say, I am saddened by so much of it and now, in some ways, wish I hadn't posted it. I'm not a big fan of hate or stupidity. Though my convictions remain the same, I am discouraged by the amount of hatred being displayed. Though I realize that most of the trash talking is by people who are too uneducated or irrational to make a pointed comment that stimulates debate rather than hate, I nonetheless see way too much angst within this discussion to take many of the comments seriously.
As I said before, I am an honorably discharched military veteran of the original Gulf War. I served my country and will never regret it. I was a young 18 year old kid from the inner city who, like many others, wanted a way out and the military offered it to me. To this day I harbor an incredible amount of respect for those I served with and those serving now. I support our troops and would leave for Iraq tomorrow if I knew it meant I could help save a fellow American soldier or was going to assist in making the world a safer place for people. I learned a huge amount of technical and mental skill and graduated from the University of Akron, in part, because of my G.I. Bill benefits. The United States Military is and always will be part of my extended family; my brothers in arms.
That being said, I still contend this war in Iraq was a scam and believe now more than ever, that my original post was right on the money. Of course we'll never prove George Bush took us to war for oil but does this whole Haliburton contract scandal make anyone say hmmmm!!! Does the fact that WMDs have never been found make anyone wonder? Are we still sleeping with Saudi Arabia despite the fact that most of the 9/11 terrorists were Saudis? If this war were not about oil resources then why didn't we address them 2nd after the Afghanis. Why are we securing oil fields in Irag and not securing the cities and the insurgents. Can even the farrest right wing republican say we haven't bitten off more than we could chew in Vietraq. Each and every day we lose ground in Iraq and each and every day hundreds more potential terrorists are born in a country that was proven by our own intelligence agencies to pose no real threat to us before the war. And worst of all, each and every day more and more of our fellow citizens are needlessly dying and being permanantely disfigured for a war that should have happened in another country. The country that put their people on those planes that horrific September morning in 2001.
George Bush will go down in history as another Lyndon Johnson; the hard core, conservative, with a liberal sticker on his forehead, stick to your guns and principles president who didn't have a clue what he was doing or why. He simply operated on so-called convictions (his convictions not those of the American people). The Bush - Rumsfeld combo is horribly remeniscent of the Johnson - McNamara duo during Vietnam. See the documentary narrated by McNamara himself called "The Fog of War" and you see a beaten down war monger who now, in his 70's, finally regrets the atrocities he committed in Vietnam (a war he admitted his administration knew was unwinnable and was needlessly costing tens of thousands of American soldiers their lives). Yet they pressed on because to paraphrase Johnson "We are America, we don't run from wars, we win them". Even the stubbornist of Rebublicans will be moved after watching this Oscar winning documentary.
I never wanted to stimulate a debate that pitted Republicans versus Democrats. Republicans and Democrats are equally crooked and equally share in the responsibllity of securing our safety. I'll leave that debate to the Senate and Congress. Rather, I wanted a debate of fact or fiction. Facts will, in history, speak for themselves. We, the American people were lied to about the war. Even the Republican constituancy in congress bashed Bush for not gathering more facts before heading into war and using unfounded intelligence as a basis for a preemtive attack. Had W. come out and said, we must address the terrorists and those who harbor them, and then actually addressed the real terrorists (i.e. Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan and Iran) then I would have probably supported military action against such countries. This was not the case.
There are many facts that are debateable and many that are not. George Bush lied to us and is killing Americans everyday for a war that does absolutely nothing to stop or push back terrorist efforts around the globe. Everyday Iraqi insurgents find ways to kill American soldiers with sling-shots, guns from the Korean war era and sticks of dynamite while more and more terrorists train and prepare in Iran, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. Will we wait as long as Vietnam and allow 20,000+ soldiers to die before we have had enough of our president and HIS Christian convictions. Wasn't Adolf Hitler a Christian? No, George Bush is no Hitler, but Christianity as a basis for political morality is like using the internet to find a girlfriend. It's called blind faith. And sadly, every day here in America we tell people we hate them or they suck if they don't share our same view of this war.
I think many of you should step back for a minute and try to form opinions, not from so-called Republican or Democratic agendas but from their gut instinct based on the information they gather from more than just the right or left. Michael Moore is a joke and if you saw Farenheit 911 and suddenly think you know the truth then you are sadly mistaken and in for a rude awakening. Moore is a liar and an injustice to free speech. He fabricates images and manipulates them to brainwash the public. He is no better than George Bush. And if you think the O'reilly Factor or FOX News is your best resource for information then..........I don't know what, but maybe just go and shoot your neighbor in the face with a sawed off shotgun if their dog craps in your yard.
So, in closing, I guess in some ways this thread has had some good and some bad, but much like this years election, it has too often evoked hateful and emotional displays of stupidity and uninformed verbal attacks against people who don't share our same opinions. Since the beginning of time, war has never been the will of the majority but the tool of the empowered to remain empowered and for religious finatics to flourish. And war is certainly not the best tool to secure and defend .01% of a populations political and economic interests. War is neccessary when attacked and only when waged against the attackers. We, the American people cannot sucumb to fear and brainwashing. We are not doomed by Bush's reelection nor are we in an irreversable downward spiral. Nor is America, as a whole, an infidel society because our president and his brother have children with drug problems and drinking habbits. We the people not we our president. This Communist regime will come to an end in 4 years and when Jeb Bush runs in 2008 he will be greated with a more informed public that will hopefully put an end to the Bush Family follies. Best,

I saw your comment about you being a libertarian on this post Steve and I'm glad to find someone else who hasn't sold out to those communists and nazis in our government. Just had to comment on that. (I am a paleo-libertarian by the way)

As for Adam, it is false patriots like you that are bringing down our society. (I shall affectionately call false patriots like you 'tratriots') Most people like you claim to beleive in a live and let live lifestyle yet you covet your neighbor's property and try to twist state power for your own personal gain. Get a clue.

As for Nicole and everyone else in your position I agree that the 9-11 attacks were unwarranted and barbaric. However other people have the right to preach whatever they want in public even if they are from other countries. There is no law ANYWHERE that says "foreigners cannot talk in American forums". These kinds of issues will attract people from other nations and if there are issues in foreign nations that grab my attention, then I most certainly will stick my opinion in there. It's my right. It's everyone's right to bad talk this country, no exceptions. Live with it.

I saw your comment about you being a libertarian on this post Steve and I'm glad to find someone else who hasn't sold out to those communists and nazis in our government. Just had to comment on that. (I am a paleo-libertarian by the way)

As for Adam, it is false patriots like you that are bringing down our society. (I shall affectionately call false patriots like you 'tratriots') Most people like you claim to beleive in a live and let live lifestyle yet you covet your neighbor's property and try to twist state power for your own personal gain. Get a clue.

As for Nicole and everyone else in your position I agree that the 9-11 attacks were unwarranted and barbaric. However other people have the right to preach whatever they want in public even if they are from other countries. There is no law ANYWHERE that says "foreigners cannot talk in American forums". These kinds of issues will attract people from other nations and if there are issues in foreign nations that grab my attention, then I most certainly will stick my opinion in there. It's my right. It's everyone's right to bad talk this country, no exceptions. Live with it.

I saw your comment about you being a libertarian on this post Steve and I'm glad to find someone else who hasn't sold out to those communists and nazis in our government. Just had to comment on that. (I am a paleo-libertarian by the way)

As for Adam, it is false patriots like you that are bringing down our society. (I shall affectionately call false patriots like you 'tratriots') Most people like you claim to beleive in a live and let live lifestyle yet you covet your neighbor's property and try to twist state power for your own personal gain. Get a clue.

As for Nicole and everyone else in your position I agree that the 9-11 attacks were unwarranted and barbaric. However other people have the right to preach whatever they want in public even if they are from other countries. There is no law ANYWHERE that says "foreigners cannot talk in American forums". These kinds of issues will attract people from other nations and if there are issues in foreign nations that grab my attention, then I most certainly will stick my opinion in there. It's my right. It's everyone's right to bad talk this country, no exceptions. Live with it.

I saw your comment about you being a libertarian on this post Steve and I'm glad to find someone else who hasn't sold out to those communists and nazis in our government. Just had to comment on that. (I am a paleo-libertarian by the way)

As for Adam, it is false patriots like you that are bringing down our society. (I shall affectionately call false patriots like you 'tratriots') Most people like you claim to beleive in a live and let live lifestyle yet you covet your neighbor's property and try to twist state power for your own personal gain. Get a clue.

As for Nicole and everyone else in your position I agree that the 9-11 attacks were unwarranted and barbaric. However other people have the right to preach whatever they want in public even if they are from other countries. There is no law ANYWHERE that says "foreigners cannot talk in American forums". These kinds of issues will attract people from other nations and if there are issues in foreign nations that grab my attention, then I most certainly will stick my opinion in there. It's my right. It's everyone's right to bad talk this country, no exceptions. Live with it.

It's the truth, Valencia, the God's honest truth. The fact that you have that freedom of speech, religion, etc.. is a lie spread about by our corrupt media. Fox, Clear Channel, CNN, all of them spread this lie all over our nation every day.

Bush is just another example of the poltical hypocrisy and scamming that goes on in America. He not only lies consistently, he fills his administration with liars and shysters, and Congress is just as bad. Most of those politicans in Congress couldn't give a hoot about any of you people. They're more concerned about collecting their million dollar TAXPAYER-PAID pensions rather than fixing the problems besetting our nation. And yes, when I said most Americans are idiots for supporting this corruption I meant it. They are being buffoons and they can't figure out why our country is in the gutter.

The war in Iraq is just another example of the hypocrisy of the masses. You preach peace and tolerance but practice aggression; you preach freedom from taxation and oppression yet you tax and spend (For those of you "neo-cons" who think Bush is anti-tax and pro-business, the unconstitutional Patriot act is a huge burden to small businesses, and Bush not only supports Socialist security but actually planned to give Social Security payments to Mexicans living in the US).

In a nutshell, instead of listining to those shyster politicans and bribed judges read the Constitution and see for yourself the hypocrisy that the masses are missing! Of all the people on this forum you tend to be the most informed, Valencia so I'm glad that you responded to my earlier posting.

First, a note for Valencia, as I've said before; we can all respect each others opinions as this has and will always be a great debate. However, poeple like Adam, who's only goal in life is to continously BS each and every persaon it comes in contact with.

As for Adam, first, it is none of your d**n business why my husband is or is not serving our country. I have made it celar numerous times, because we can not we give to ANY and ALL reputable charities, including the one help your stupid a*s. If it weren't for people liek us, tell me, how do you expect to get treatment for whatever you claim is wrong with you this week? Exactly, you claim to be this and that, yet one day you have this the next you don't, boy you really need to lay off the morphine.

I can talk about what I do know. If you took the time to read people's rebuttals instead of spouting off your BS, you would have read that I believed we did what we went in there for and should bring our troops home to their families. Appearently, your rebuttals show your lack of any intellegence.

You need to watch who the F you're calling a sissy. I think you've proved to everyone that you and only you could be classified as such. I'm not the only one doubting you. Where were you when 9/11 happened? My husband was right there helping, he took several days off of work without pay to help. Did you do this? When Florida was hit by (I lost track of how many) hurricanes, where were you? My husband and his father (who lives in California) again took their time and helped out.

I have not physically finacially supported any war or battle, nor I have ever done this for any administration. Like it or not, though, every single person in the US has finacially supported this war, who the hell do you think is paying these billions upon billions for this war? Everyone! We have taxes on just about everything, next thing you'll know, well be paying taxes to us the bathroom. Yet, again, we don't have the funding for our children's education. But you go on and think what you want. No matter what anyone says you spout off whatever BS and names you feel the need to. Is there anyone you haven't got into it with? That's what we all thought. Next time, I'd suggest you get them 2 inch think glasses out and start reading instead of insinuating and making comments not only unwarrented, but just plain stupid and erogant.

So, you were a photographer at a Naval Air Station and then at Kirkland AFB between 95' and 99'. This is less than making eagle scout in my estimation. Your opinion is of no consequence to those who have really served. You want solutions? Here's one. Let's stop trying to police the whole world and keep our cherished loved ones home to defend our country.How about returning to a constitutional government. How about guarding our great nation instead of bullying other weaker nations. How about understanding that other peoples and cultures are not ready for democracy.

And finally how about you shut your pie hole and listen and learn from you elders and betters, you young whelp? You have nothing to contribute to any conversation among grown and experienced men and women. In fact, I think you should volunteer to go to Iraq, but this time enter the military as a fighting man. Not as an airman dressed up like a campfire girl. You sir, are a coward and a sissy. So, don't you dare respond to my posts in such a disrespectful manner. You haven't lived long enough or experienced enough to try to demean me, you putrid little sissy.

Ok, your arrogant comments are the reson why the USA is so disliked now. No one in this forum is a judge or part of a jury to tell 'the Brit' or Jacoba to not voice their opinions. Whether or not we want to hear what they say, thay can because this is CYBER SPACE! Obviously you are a young buck, because your immaturity shows it. Whether or not the US 'kicks butt' or Rocks or whatever, does not mean that we have a reason to intrude on others' countries. And since you know so much about history, the majority of the people in the US are from Europe or Africa, so we really don't belong here either! Another land we Americans 'seized' ages ago for our taking...
And last, I agree with the poster who said that we are all just blowing off steam and no one is offering SOLUTIONS!

So geniuses, any suggestions? And Jeff, you make a valid point about Freedom of Speech. I wonder about some of our laws that are written.

And of course to April... I was not going to respond to your last post to me, but what the hell... I do not know people who were killed by 9/11 but I was there. It was the most surreal day in my entire life and I WILL NEVER FORGET IT! Last, when I have bashed someone's belief? Like I said a million times before... I dislike Bush as a leader, and that is my opinion. I am still hoping his No Child Left Behind Act will either be modified or banned. I think the events leading up to the war warranted a red flag. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but calling names and this anger on this board is ridiculous. Might as well be a cat fight...

On a positive note, I am sure your donations to the many charities are great help to society.

Just some food for thought:

Although I was a big supporter of John Kerry, after reading all the letters and listening to all the comments from the right, I'm glad the Bushies won. They're such poor winners, heaven help us if Bush had lost.

No kidding. It hasn't been a picnic being on the receiving end of e-mails from distant parts of the country that are akin to those "nyah, nyah, nyah" taunts the kids hurl at each other on the school playground.

It's remarkable what is happening in Washington right now. One might think these new-breed Republicans had scored a huge landslide victory on Nov. 2 instead of actually squeaking by with a 3 percent margin that may still wind up being even closer once all the votes are counted. And that was with the power of the incumbency behind them, plus a war that historically works in favor of whoever happens to be president.

While the rule-changing being made by the GOP leadership in the House and Senate has raised eyebrows over the way the Democrats are being marginalized, nothing compares to the blatant in-your-face rewrite of the House's ethics rules to protect its majority leader, Tom DeLay of Texas.The irony is that the rule to require any House member in a leadership position to step down should he or she be indicted was implemented by none other than the House Republicans in the first place. It was aimed at the Democrats who had just fallen out of power after the Newt Gingrich revolution, and the new GOP majority wanted to send the Dems a message that their ethics were lacking. (Remember Tip O'Neill, James Wright and Tom Foley, all Democratic speakers who wound up fending off various charges of impropriety?)

Now, however, Tom DeLay is likely to be indicted for his role in campaign chicanery in Texas, some of the allegations serious enough that he could face felony charges.

What's good for the Democrats is obviously not good for the Republicans. So a few days after the election they went back to Washington and changed the rules so that the "Hammer," DeLay, who wields enormous power over this membership, won't be affected. Even Gingrich was appalled.

What everyone seems to forget in politics is that old adage that what goes around comes around. Sometimes, when arrogance raises its ugly head, it comes around a lot faster than one might think.

History will mark this the most corrupt era ever. Cheers!

You once again miss the point. You and your sissy husband are supporting a war that niether of you are willing to take part in. O.K. you suffer from S.L.E., what does Dale suffer from? I think it is cowardice or he would be fighting for whatever you think that we the American poeple have to gain in this ill-advised war.

Yes I am a disabled veteran of another ill-advised war. what the hell have you ever done but give lip service and a few bucks to support our governments failed foreign policy? You can defend our governments failed foreign policy from the safety of your suburban beltway home, but if you had to truly live through the horrors of war, you would most certainly sing a different tune.

How dare you doubt (especially in a public forum) my service and commitment to my beloved country? As I have said before, I LOVE MY COUNTRY. IT'S MY GOVERNMENT THAT I FEAR! If you want to believe any lies propogated by the current administration, you are not only hoodwinked but gullible beyond redemtion.

By the way, when will Dale be volunteering to fight in Iraq? Oh, that's what I thought. You can talk the talk but you'd rather crawl than walk the walk. Niether of you have the wisdom or experience to discuss this topic intelligently,so just shut your ignorant mouths and let the people who have some experience in this matter discourse without uninformed B.S. from armchair warriors such as yourselves.

I sent a reply earlier apologizing to Steve for confusing him for the idiot in Alaska. Adam, you have alot of comments and you point out alot of problems and voice the complaints you have but other than that what else do you do? You are good at pointing out the obvious but you don't pose any solutions. Also, you seem to over react to anything that is said and it makes me wonder--how small is your manhood? Only someone as tiny as you would have balls as big as his mouth on the internet. I didn't serve in a war but I did serve in the USAF from 95-99 as a defense photographer @ Corry NAS and Kirkland AFB. So shut up and act intelligent.

First, I will start by stating that I did not vote for Bush this year. I didn't vote for him because I think we could have used some change. It had nothing to do with the war, but other issues that I will not get into. However, having that said, HE DID WIN THE d**n ELECTION! BOTH THIS TIME AND IN 2000! Everyone knows it and as much as it pains me to think it, it's true.
Second, yes this war sucks. Yes we went for the WRONG reasons. But,there are reasons to be there. Plain and simple. We have liberated two countries (Since when does everyone forget about Afghanistan?) that were previously under horrible leadership. That's a good d**n reason. And second, someone knows where bin Laden is and if they're smart they will tell us! (obviosuly they are not smart!) Now lets see, 9/11. I was sixteen (yep I'm a youngun') and my aunt died. So yes, I am pissed at those f**kers that attacked us! They deserve to die. They deserve no civil rights. In one day they killed nearly 3000 people. That deserves nothing!

Third, to that d**n British guy. SHUT THE HELL UP! You have given no reason for why you believe this war is illegal. And the UK is NOT a super power. WE ARE! I'm not sure who said it but whoever it was said it right "WE KICKED YOUR a*s OUT OVER 200 YEARS AGO" So leave us alone. Worry about your own problems. Which, before you say it, yes we should too. But we're helping others, you are just bitching. And as for Blair being Bush's lapdog, it wont change. America is a HUGE SUPERPOWER the UK will always be our little b***h! Deal! Either way, you have no right to disrespect my country. You don't live here (even though we all know you want to, I mean America does kick a*s!) therefore you can't say anything about it.

Next, no I don't like Bush, but he is my leader. And I will respect him, and so should you guys. It seems like everyone wants a perfect president, but until we start manufacturing people, that won't happen. I would also like to point out the fact that Bush did a d**n GOOD JOB of keeping us together immediatly following that terrible day. No one was complaining about him then, but when we are simply defending ourselves, everyone is angry. If you don't like it, leave, you don't have to be here, Canada is just a border away!
And Finally, I would just like to say thank you to every AMERICAN who has exercised his/her freedom of speech. It's when you don't use it that the powers that be can take it away.

GOD BLESS AMERICA

DON'T f**k WITH THE USA
(You would think the world would have learned after what we did to Japan...and yet no...hmm maybe they'll learn this time!)

oh and to Jacoba ( I hope I spelled that right ) I mean no offense to you, you offer constructive comments, but I still don't believe that people in other countries should get too deep into OUR politics.You have done very good keeping a distance while still voicing your opinion. Thank you!
(and don't even say it you brit...it is America's job to be involved in other countries politics...you gave us this power. Deal with it!)
and to Adam I am studing in AK, and you are why I will be transfereing out. You people suck up here. We should just sell you back to Russia! CUT DOWN SOME TREE AND BUILD A WALMART OR EVEN SOME ROADS! maybe then you'll have some perspective!

Sorry one more thing...the jealousy of America from other countries (here I'll just talk about our little Brit). It is simply because in 228 years, we have accomplished more than Britain has in however the hell long it's been around (don't know...don't care). I'd be jealous too, but wait I don't have to be, I live in the Good Ol' USA!

Have a great day and Merry Chrismahanakwanzaka! (cortousy of Virgin Mobile USA)

Okay I'd like to respond to the various letters and comments regarding George Bush and the war in Iraq. Seems like we even have people writing in from outside the USA.

These ideas and attitudes expressed on this forum are typical of a nation of politically naive people. You people decry how Bush is supposedly rolling back civil liberties and freedom of speech, yada yada yada. Fact is, you people aren't really entitled to freedom of speech at all! The First Amendment begins: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion . . ." and goes on to address speech, the press and public assembly and grievience. This prohibits federal controls on speech, which still means that STATE governments can shut you up as much as they want, or they even can have an official state religion if they desire (for all you neo-con statists here, this means that you can shut dissenters up in your home state but the FCC's authority is 100% unconstitutional, no buts). As far as Bush is concerned, not only is he an idiot (ditto on Kerry and Nader) but the majority of people in this nation tolerate his antics; therefore, most Americans today are idiots. I love this country, don't get me wrong. I'm just telling the truth. As for you people here whining and crying about the war in Iraq, if any nation is so ready and willing to throw out rule of law at home, do you really think they will follow rule of law overseas? Maybe you should all think about your opinions before you shove them down other peoples throats. These are the words of a REAL patriot, by the way

Okay I'd like to respond to the various letters and comments regarding George Bush and the war in Iraq. Seems like we even have people writing in from outside the USA.

These ideas and attitudes expressed on this forum are typical of a nation of politically naive people. You people decry how Bush is supposedly rolling back civil liberties and freedom of speech, yada yada yada. Fact is, you people aren't really entitled to freedom of speech at all! The First Amendment begins: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion . . ." and goes on to address speech, the press and public assembly and grievience. This prohibits federal controls on speech, which still means that STATE governments can shut you up as much as they want, or they even can have an official state religion if they desire (for all you neo-con statists here, this means that you can shut dissenters up in your home state but the FCC's authority is 100% unconstitutional, no buts). As far as Bush is concerned, not only is he an idiot (ditto on Kerry and Nader) but the majority of people in this nation tolerate his antics; therefore, most Americans today are idiots. I love this country, don't get me wrong. I'm just telling the truth. As for you people here whining and crying about the war in Iraq, if any nation is so ready and willing to throw out rule of law at home, do you really think they will follow rule of law overseas? Maybe you should all think about your opinions before you shove them down other peoples throats. These are the words of a REAL patriot, by the way

Adam,

Who on this site is grown up? Surely not you. You continously pick battles you can't win, so instead of answering anyone's Q's you bash them. You make yourself look more and more like an a*s. Watch who you're calling a "sissy." No one really believes you were ever enlisted as you have lied so many times on other posts about anything and everything that you "wish" were in part of your life.

You stupid enough to know that I have SLE, which makes me unable to volunteer for military service. However, I DO know a lot a people that have been there and done that. Not to mention my entire, and my husband's, entire family has always and will always serve our country. Perhaps you are the one that doesn't know the reality set forth.

A question was asked prior, and I answered that question for that rebuttalist. I have made it clear and will make it clear so someone as stupid as you will hopefully get it through your thick head: I have finacially supported vets, vets of all wars and battles, we are active members of ACY, Children w/ Disabilities Act, MD Cents for Children, MD Heath Care Reform bill, The No Child Left Behind Act, ASPCA, PETA and MD CAN. We have taken part in bills for Social Security and health care for the elderly, anything and everything for children's furtures, Disabled Vet's Acts, etc. etc. ect.

We currently and alwasy ahve/will finacially donate to the American Disabled Vets Foundation, the Purple Heart Foundation, Altimers Foundation, Breast Cancer Foundation, Cancer Coalition, Lupus Foundation, Diabetes Foundation, March of Dimes, American Cancer Society, Special Education, just to name a FEW.

So really, I can boast about what my husband and I have as we give so much to so many. When you say that, then open your mouth as to what someone boasts about and what someone says for a reason. Oh, but that's right you seem to read only what you want and nothing more. Don't tell me I have no rights when people like me pay for your treatments. Remember that!

Do you really think you are posting on the right subject here? You boast that you and Dale both make six figure incomes. Do you think that disabled American veterans want to hear that bragging from people who've done absolutely nothing to support the wars you so fervently supporrt(in writing not by fighting). I think you would learn not to speak about what you cannot know, If you and Dale would volunteer just a few hours, once a week at Bethesda or Walter Reed. What is that to inconvenient for you? How inconvenient do you think it is for our wounded vets? I'd love to have you post an answer to my question, as I know you warmongers are not courageous enough to walk the walk. War is a good thing if it doesn't effect you or yours. As a real, true blue, patriotic American fighting man, I think you and your sissy husband should not
only shut up about things you are completey ignorant about, you both should hide your faces when any real American crosses your path.

When you and Dale go into combat, I will welcome any correspondence from you. However I won't be holding my breath. You support an at least, ill advised war. Show us your convictions and enlist in any branch of the military, or would that be some thing best left for your inferiors? You both make me more nauseated than my chemo, you are truly the dregs of society, and you owe a huge debt of appreciation to those who risk what you will not, on your behalf.

Tt was not Steve who corrected your use of the term "ex-vet". It was me, Adam from Anchorage. The real disabled vet. You try to post as if you had a single clue as to what our valuable and precious active duty and reservists are going through day in and day out. After reading your posts, I can only come to the conclusion that you are one of those cowards that enjoy the freedom and security of this great nation(provided by our courageous sons and daughters) SO YOU CAN COMMENT ON THINGS YOU CANNOT COMPREHEND! When have you ever served your country or anything that didn't directly benefit you as a drain on society? I'll bet never. In closing, do not interrupt grownups when they are conversing.

Kudos to Steve, aside from you calling me some udeserved names, you do make a lot of sense. It's always a pleasure to read a post that actually makes good sense. I hope you will continue to add your rational thoughts, as I'm getting bored with the rantings and ravings of ignoramises like April,dave and Jim from Aurora.
!

Hello everyone; I've been sitting here laughing - heart felt respect to all of these responces. first off I would like to thank Christopher/ Arkron, Ohio For getting this thing started darn near two years ago.

It shows how ignorant most people are about what goes on abroad,(For some it seems just right outside there kitchen window, is there starting point) WOW and Scary. And for some of you Well, You've got your act togeather and thank you for information and/ or pionts I just didn't even know or think of.

Second, I would truely like to Thank All of YOU that have served in the Armed Forces one way or another. If it wasn't for you my lazy a*s wouldn't be able sit here and get to know so many of you by your words. Just a little fact as of 8:30pm PCT 61 people had something to say on a subject one wouldn't have thought you would find in this type of report, but I guess it fits here as anywhere else.

Third I'm going to give some personal reconition to some just because I feel you have earned it. Jason Wasau, Wis. Sorry to here about the lost of your buds but your right they knew what they were in for when they took their oath. Satie Ohawa, Kt. (forgive me for wrong state can't read my notes) and Janice Sacto, Ca. Both had very well written comments and there were many others too but these stood out on my list, also I couldn't read them all hell I got a life too..

Fourth, This war will end, when I don't know, but I hope that when we forget what it was all about we don't whine when it happens again. Just remember in time of peace prepare for war.

Look, freak. We are all sick and tired of all you left wing cranks and your constant attempts to run down the country that has kept you free. If you have such a problem with America, you need to renounce you citizenship, put a rag on your head and go to Iraq and pick up an AK-47 so one of our DevilDogs can pop a cap in your dumb a*s and put you out of our misery. The world would be a better place by removing you and others like you from the gene pool.

I might not be well informed but I don't try to act like I know everything or refuse to adjust to a situation that I longer have control of. It seems like the only you could attack about my statement is a technicality about "a former vet." Here is a question for someone who has all the answers: What the hell are you doing besides complaining about things without presenting any type of solutions? It seems like you are the type of person who complains about having no toliet paper and instead of getting your own, you would continue to point out the fact there is none and keep using your hand until someone else fixed the problem. Voting isn't the only you can do. How much time to you devote to your party --besides not voting for them. Steve, maybe you should put your head in the microwave and defrost your brain.

I might not be well informed but I don't try to act like I know everything or refuse to adjust to a situation that I longer have control of. It seems like the only you could attack about my statement is a technicality about "a former vet." Here is a question for someone who has all the answers: What the hell are you doing besides complaining about things without presenting any type of solutions? It seems like you are the type of person who complains about having no toliet paper and instead of getting your own, you would continue to point out the fact there is none and keep using your hand until someone else fixed the problem. Voting isn't the only you can do. How much time to you devote to your party --besides not voting for them. Steve, maybe you should put your head in the microwave and defrost your brain.

I might not be well informed but I don't try to act like I know everything or refuse to adjust to a situation that I longer have control of. It seems like the only you could attack about my statement is a technicality about "a former vet." Here is a question for someone who has all the answers: What the hell are you doing besides complaining about things without presenting any type of solutions? It seems like you are the type of person who complains about having no toliet paper and instead of getting your own, you would continue to point out the fact there is none and keep using your hand until someone else fixed the problem. Voting isn't the only you can do. How much time to you devote to your party --besides not voting for them. Steve, maybe you should put your head in the microwave and defrost your brain.

I might not be well informed but I don't try to act like I know everything or refuse to adjust to a situation that I longer have control of. It seems like the only you could attack about my statement is a technicality about "a former vet." Here is a question for someone who has all the answers: What the hell are you doing besides complaining about things without presenting any type of solutions? It seems like you are the type of person who complains about having no toliet paper and instead of getting your own, you would continue to point out the fact there is none and keep using your hand until someone else fixed the problem. Voting isn't the only you can do. How much time to you devote to your party --besides not voting for them. Steve, maybe you should put your head in the microwave and defrost your brain.

Adam, I apologize as well. This issue is too "hot" right now.

Best to Bill in Athena. I hope you now know that I was not slamming the military.

Since no one is changing anybody else's minds here and we are all just being mean to each other, I think I'll bow out of this.

This post may still be going on when Bush leaves office. Bush does as Bush wills and neverending posting at this forum or any other won't change it.

Everybody for the war, raise your hand.

Everybody against the war, raise your hand.

Everybody for Bush, raise your hand.

Everybody against Bush, raise your hand.

Vote's over. Let's all go home now.

I read several of these posts, you all have good opinions which I respect. But I must bring to light somethings I learned from troops who have come home from Iraq.

I work at Walter Reed Army medical Center(yes Jessica Lynch was there too) and get to talk with many of our troops. I'm friends with many of them. I too was a vet during Desert Storm (1987-1991). What I've heard 100% from them is, the Iraqi's aren't who we are fighting, rather insurgents. They come from other countries, Saudi Arabia, Jordan(Al-Zaqarwi who's beheading those people?) is a prime example and even Syria. They come into Iraq to fight us the purported " western badguys" It's just that we are trying to get things going when retards from other countries try to destroy it. Bush isn't the problem, but in my opinion, the liberals harp harshly on Bush trying to convey that he's at fault. He's not. But he hasn't helped out our economy either. I'm probably worse off now than I was 4 years ago.

Steve,

I agree, now that we have Sadam, we need to leave. We have accomplished our mission. The mission to find and do whatever to Bin Laden, will never happen. Apparently, he's smarter than most our government. By still being there, and numerous other places we've recently deployed to, we are only hurting our economy even worse.

Valencia,

"...people are always ready to fight for insignificant things..." What? Fighting for one's rights, freedom and future unseen attacks upon our brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, etc. is insignificant? Did you know anyone that was killed or injured, not just physically, but mentally, by the 9/11 attacks? Apparently not.

I have not sat here and bashed peopled grammer skills. I have attacked Adam as you have no idea the crap this site troll is dishing to everyone. But, before bashing my skills, you do remeber the saying..."calling the kettle black..." And no, I could care less about "dual" citizenship because as far as myself and millions of Americans are concerned, this should be stopped. Let's face it, if you had dual citizenship, say for America and The Soviet Republic, if we went to war, who's side would you take? That's why dual citizenship is not needed and should not be allowed.

And no, you DO preach you beliefs' and bash all those that don't want to hear and object to your "I believe this is what's really happening..." lines.

Jacoba,

I will try to help with your question, I'm sure others will too. Anyway, will are headed for a recession. We don't seem to have the money to fund schools, health care, homeless and nessesities of life. Yet we have funds to support a war that should have stopped by now, we have funds to deploy to other countries, we have funds to help other countries (not saying that other countries don't need it). We ahve numerous businesses that have been blown out the water with scams. Lossing thousands upon tyhousands of jobs. So, no job, no money, and no money, no spending.

When I sit in at a community, state or federal budget meeting, the questions are always raised about funding for over populated schools, health care for those that can't afford it and for speacial needs children (education, etc.). Everyoen is always being told that we are looking into possibilities to fund these budgets in the next 10 years. 10 years, so children are to become sick and remain sick, schools are continuing to deliver less than average education, but that's OK with our government. We are suppossed to know 2 languages as America is now English and Spanish speaking, this puts a hurting on those that didn't or can't get the education to learn other languages. Then they can't get a job because they only speak English. The government loks at them and tells them that they can go flip burgers at BK. You see they don't care about those not making ends meat. Mu husband and I have give and give a lot each year to foundations in our country, simply because this shoudl not be our way of life. I feel for those that can't make enough to put food on their tables, get emdication when sick or enjoy the pleasures of their children because they have to work 3 jobs.

I know other countries are in need, however our country is not this rich, high class that the government makes people believe. We are one of the few lucky ones, however it has not always been that way, we struggled, my husband and I both worked 2 jobs at one time. It's hard for people to live anymore. Where we live, the average cost for a new home is $400,000. My husband and I make 6 digit incomes, how do these people that make $50,000 or less afford a home. They can't and when they try, they loss it because they can't make the bills.

To sum it up, we seem to only have money for others. You have to make a 6 digit figure to live and even then, you struggle from time to time. We can't have a strong budget with so much decline in life. Too many people have to suffer.

Steve,

I agree, now that we have Sadam, we need to leave. We have accomplished our mission. The mission to find and do whatever to Bin Laden, will never happen. Apparently, he's smarter than most our government. By still being there, and numerous other places we've recently deployed to, we are only hurting our economy even worse.

Valencia,

"...people are always ready to fight for insignificant things..." What? Fighting for one's rights, freedom and future unseen attacks upon our brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, etc. is insignificant? Did you know anyone that was killed or injured, not just physically, but mentally, by the 9/11 attacks? Apparently not.

I have not sat here and bashed peopled grammer skills. I have attacked Adam as you have no idea the crap this site troll is dishing to everyone. But, before bashing my skills, you do remeber the saying..."calling the kettle black..." And no, I could care less about "dual" citizenship because as far as myself and millions of Americans are concerned, this should be stopped. Let's face it, if you had dual citizenship, say for America and The Soviet Republic, if we went to war, who's side would you take? That's why dual citizenship is not needed and should not be allowed.

And no, you DO preach you beliefs' and bash all those that don't want to hear and object to your "I believe this is what's really happening..." lines.

Jacoba,

I will try to help with your question, I'm sure others will too. Anyway, will are headed for a recession. We don't seem to have the money to fund schools, health care, homeless and nessesities of life. Yet we have funds to support a war that should have stopped by now, we have funds to deploy to other countries, we have funds to help other countries (not saying that other countries don't need it). We ahve numerous businesses that have been blown out the water with scams. Lossing thousands upon tyhousands of jobs. So, no job, no money, and no money, no spending.

When I sit in at a community, state or federal budget meeting, the questions are always raised about funding for over populated schools, health care for those that can't afford it and for speacial needs children (education, etc.). Everyoen is always being told that we are looking into possibilities to fund these budgets in the next 10 years. 10 years, so children are to become sick and remain sick, schools are continuing to deliver less than average education, but that's OK with our government. We are suppossed to know 2 languages as America is now English and Spanish speaking, this puts a hurting on those that didn't or can't get the education to learn other languages. Then they can't get a job because they only speak English. The government loks at them and tells them that they can go flip burgers at BK. You see they don't care about those not making ends meat. Mu husband and I have give and give a lot each year to foundations in our country, simply because this shoudl not be our way of life. I feel for those that can't make enough to put food on their tables, get emdication when sick or enjoy the pleasures of their children because they have to work 3 jobs.

I know other countries are in need, however our country is not this rich, high class that the government makes people believe. We are one of the few lucky ones, however it has not always been that way, we struggled, my husband and I both worked 2 jobs at one time. It's hard for people to live anymore. Where we live, the average cost for a new home is $400,000. My husband and I make 6 digit incomes, how do these people that make $50,000 or less afford a home. They can't and when they try, they loss it because they can't make the bills.

To sum it up, we seem to only have money for others. You have to make a 6 digit figure to live and even then, you struggle from time to time. We can't have a strong budget with so much decline in life. Too many people have to suffer.

Steve,

I agree, now that we have Sadam, we need to leave. We have accomplished our mission. The mission to find and do whatever to Bin Laden, will never happen. Apparently, he's smarter than most our government. By still being there, and numerous other places we've recently deployed to, we are only hurting our economy even worse.

Valencia,

"...people are always ready to fight for insignificant things..." What? Fighting for one's rights, freedom and future unseen attacks upon our brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, etc. is insignificant? Did you know anyone that was killed or injured, not just physically, but mentally, by the 9/11 attacks? Apparently not.

I have not sat here and bashed peopled grammer skills. I have attacked Adam as you have no idea the crap this site troll is dishing to everyone. But, before bashing my skills, you do remeber the saying..."calling the kettle black..." And no, I could care less about "dual" citizenship because as far as myself and millions of Americans are concerned, this should be stopped. Let's face it, if you had dual citizenship, say for America and The Soviet Republic, if we went to war, who's side would you take? That's why dual citizenship is not needed and should not be allowed.

And no, you DO preach you beliefs' and bash all those that don't want to hear and object to your "I believe this is what's really happening..." lines.

Jacoba,

I will try to help with your question, I'm sure others will too. Anyway, will are headed for a recession. We don't seem to have the money to fund schools, health care, homeless and nessesities of life. Yet we have funds to support a war that should have stopped by now, we have funds to deploy to other countries, we have funds to help other countries (not saying that other countries don't need it). We ahve numerous businesses that have been blown out the water with scams. Lossing thousands upon tyhousands of jobs. So, no job, no money, and no money, no spending.

When I sit in at a community, state or federal budget meeting, the questions are always raised about funding for over populated schools, health care for those that can't afford it and for speacial needs children (education, etc.). Everyoen is always being told that we are looking into possibilities to fund these budgets in the next 10 years. 10 years, so children are to become sick and remain sick, schools are continuing to deliver less than average education, but that's OK with our government. We are suppossed to know 2 languages as America is now English and Spanish speaking, this puts a hurting on those that didn't or can't get the education to learn other languages. Then they can't get a job because they only speak English. The government loks at them and tells them that they can go flip burgers at BK. You see they don't care about those not making ends meat. Mu husband and I have give and give a lot each year to foundations in our country, simply because this shoudl not be our way of life. I feel for those that can't make enough to put food on their tables, get emdication when sick or enjoy the pleasures of their children because they have to work 3 jobs.

I know other countries are in need, however our country is not this rich, high class that the government makes people believe. We are one of the few lucky ones, however it has not always been that way, we struggled, my husband and I both worked 2 jobs at one time. It's hard for people to live anymore. Where we live, the average cost for a new home is $400,000. My husband and I make 6 digit incomes, how do these people that make $50,000 or less afford a home. They can't and when they try, they loss it because they can't make the bills.

To sum it up, we seem to only have money for others. You have to make a 6 digit figure to live and even then, you struggle from time to time. We can't have a strong budget with so much decline in life. Too many people have to suffer.

First of all, there is no such thing as a former vet. Second, I do support our troops. It's not the troops fault that they were sent to the wrong war. They unfotunately are not fighting and loosing life and limb not for our freedom or our rights. These brave men and women are fighting to make a few very evil men richer than they already are and to advance a very dangerous agenda. The current administration wraps itself in the flag clutching a Bible in one hand while hideing a dagger behind it's back. The current administration has done nothing but fan the flames of terrorism, suspend americans freedom, kill at least 112,000 people on both sides and make Americans pariahs in a very large part of the world. Had he concentrated on Afghanistan, instead of advanceing his own agenda in Iraq, there would have been much less bloodshed and that rat b*****d, Osama Bin Laden would be dead. I can tell by your comments that not only have you never served in any way but that you are not very well informed. So, Bite me you DUMBASS!

April, thanks for the feigned concern about my health. You'll undoubtedly be saddened to learn that my prognosis is good.

Steve, I'm sorry, you are right. You didn't post anything that would lead me to beleive you support Bush or his criminal acts of aggression. And yes you did piss me off by what you posted. Do me a favor and read the posts again. You just might find that I make more sense than most who post here.

Yea USA & Bush ripped me off Christopher, because they dont pass a law to get rid of people like you .I have to come on hear & look at anti American crap like this. Support are troops Go Bush Kick there a*s ps I've noticed people from ohio aren't very bright! what gives ? bad water?

I can't believe anyone who is a former vet is complaining about a war when he should be more worried about his brothers and sisters who are fighting it. There aren't too many people who agree with the war but that is old news. If you were ever more than anything other than a private stuck on KP duty in a battle, you might know that.

P.S.--If they taught you how to swim, i hope you make it to Russia

Hi,
Here I am - the pesky South African outsider again - and I am not getting involved in any of your arguments as I believe you guys need to sort that out yourselves as it is, after all, your country. Please do not think that I do not have an opinion - like most citizens of the world, I read and watch and monitor what goes on in your country almost daily, but I do understand that in times like these comments from outsiders irk.

However, there is one thing that I would honestly like someone in this forum to answer for me: the big financial question. Please give me a plausible explanation for the huge deficit you guys have at the moment - I am loathe to believe newspapers at all times and decided last night that I would ask everyone here, instead. You started off (when Clinton left) with about US$5 trillion in the black - and now you are decidely worse off. We have been told (here) that the war cost the USA about US$155 billion thus far and it has been forecast that by February next year it will reach a massive US$225 billion - which leaves you really badly in the red - with massive job shedding and a reduction of taxes for the rich!!! Some analysts here are predicting that unless very carefully managed, the US is on course for a recession within the next three years. So can someone give me some answers?

Please don't think that we are being negative here - your president has increased funding for HIV - Aids in Africa and he has supported African business by giving our entire continent access to the USA - and whilst Africa is not South Africa, we are very much part of Africa and this is positive for us - so we are not complaining.

My personal opinion on the future: if the current US government deals with the repercussions of Bush's first term (which they, no doubt, will) it could be just what the Democratic party needs to win the 2008 presidential race.

My personal opinion on the war: maybe it was not a good idea, maybe your government was not advised correctly (you cannot possibly blame one man for everything), maybe you should never have gone to war but, when I last looked, you were all human beings - and the unbelievable inhuman and (I cannot find adjectives in the english dictionary to describe this) attack on 9/11 HAD TO CREATE SUCH AN EMOTIONAL REACTION that it irks me when we, the people of the world, sit calmly around our dinner tables and pretend to understand something that we cannot possibly begin to understand. Good @%$#! How did we expect your government to react? This did not happen to us - any of us anywhere in the world. Can we not just be a little more understanding and forgiving? I am a mother. If someone harmed my children I could not be responsible for my actions - this I know. Why do we not understand that those people that govern you guys are also human?

Am I being naive here?

I have the utmost respect for any military personel, past and present. I do not turn my back on any of those individuals. They do their duty that they are charged with at the pleasure of their commander in chief, the President.

Military people are not responsible for the decisions of their leaders, they are only charged with carrying them out. Following orders is honorable and necessary. There si no shame in that.

We chnaged nothing in SE Asia, we only aggravated it. The killings that you described would have happened with or without your presence on the scene. It was their war, our "police action".

The retaliatory killings That followed the fall of Saigon were horendous. America left, and it was all the same, but worse in that anyone suspected of being supporters of Americans were executed. A few thousand more deaths to the final tally.

So, what was the cause? What did America make better? What was accomplished besides maiming and killing on both sides? What was the goal there?

You don't know me. You do not know where I have been or what I have done.You have no idea how sorry I am about your injuries. It angers me to see so many lives changed for the worst. I just want to know why. I am inviting you to educate all of us here, since you seem to be in the loop on this one.

And try not to do it with that defensive knee jerk posture. No one attacked you or any military. The leaders must bear the responsibility for thier decision.

It bears some thinking on. What will history say about that war in Vietnam? What will history say about this one in the middle east?

As to the current conflict, if our real goal was to remove Saddam, we have done that. When the goal is won we should quit before we embarrass ourselves further. When we leave Iraq the retaliatory killings will commence. It is the inevitable aftermath of every war. Will America stay there forever trying to prevent it?

Now we send our children to the same hell you have described. Why does America want to send its finest young people to hell?

The war in Iraq is not just about oil. There have been too many threats to stand from *TERRORISTS*. Not Iraq, but Terrorists. We have been fighting a war to keep our country safe, not so we can have oil. It is our job to keep the elections in Iraq safe, since it is half our fault that the mad-man Hussien is out of office. If we retreated from Iraq, then the bombings and beheadings would triple in numbers. We aren't fighting against Iraq, we are fighting against terrorists and insergants.

I didn't like Bush that much, but I thought he would be a much better president than that of Al Gore or John Kerry. Alot of people think that it is the Bush Administration's fault that 9/11 happened. It isn't. Osama Bin Laden would still be in a high-security prison if it wasn't for Bill Clinton's horrible decision to let him out of prison. And the funny thing is, Clinton is getting a Memorial erected in his name. I agree that the US is taking a turn for the worst, but it isn't Bush that is to blame.

Most, if not all, Americans in the army or the navy joined willingly, knowing full and well that there were risks involved. We are not in a war against Iraq. A matter of fact, we are teamed together WITH Iraq to defeat Iraqi insurgents and Terrorists. The noble soldiers in Iraq aren't giving thier lives for no reason. They are the protectors of multiple countrys.

I know what I am talking about. I'm not even legible to vote because I am too young, but I still know more about what I am talking about than a wide lot of you. I am not insulting any of you, because I know all of you are probably older and wiser than me. But I still think that President George W. Bush is the right choice for America.

I do not believe in this war, but that does not make me a traitor. I am a firm believer that we need to take care of our domestic issues first. The US is spending more and more time overseas and not paying attention to the homefront. But I am not a traitor. I love my country deeply, just do not agree with the decisions the Administration makes all the time. And I am entitled to disagree, its' called freedom of speech.

I do not believe in this war, but that does not make me a traitor. I am a firm believer that we need to take care of our domestic issues first. The US is spending more and more time overseas and not paying attention to the homefront. But I am not a traitor. I love my country deeply, just do not agree with the decisions the Administration makes all the time. And I am entitled to disagree, its' called freedom of speech.

I do not believe in this war, but that does not make me a traitor. I am a firm believer that we need to take care of our domestic issues first. The US is spending more and more time overseas and not paying attention to the homefront. But I am not a traitor. I love my country deeply, just do not agree with the decisions the Administration makes all the time. And I am entitled to disagree, its' called freedom of speech.

I come in here day after day reading the hate and anger posts. Most of the time I take them with a grain of salt because it is simply human behavior to cry about things when they don't go your way.

However, this time, Steve, I do have to take exception to your statement concerning Vietnam. There was a purpose to that war and to say that it was useless is to demean all those good men and women that died fighting for a cause they believed in. A cause I believed in. A just cause that cost me the use of both my legs, but I am not bitter about Vietnam. I was there. I saw the atorcious way the communists treated there own people. I have seen old men and farmers who were made to kneel in front of their family and then shot simply because they did not have another pound of rice to give to the Viet Cong. I was witness to having young teenage girls raped and gutted out simply because their father, brother, uncle or whomever thought supporting their family was more important the fighting for the Viet Cong.

No, Steve, I am not bitter about the Vietnam war nor my government. What I am bitter about is people like you who turned your backs on the very men and women who were fighting and dying in a hell hole that you would not have the guts to face. I am bitter about people who chose to believe whatever the liberal press wanted them too and really did not know was going on. People like you and all the others on here that spout their hate out of ignorance were and are still led like cattle by the press who only want to show the bad parts and could care less about the good that is being done. If it bleeds it reads. If you don't like what is happening in this country then get the hell out!! Canada is always willing to harbor our traitors.

I come in here day after day reading the hate and anger posts. Most of the time I take them with a grain of salt because it is simply human behavior to cry about things when they don't go your way.

However, this time, Steve, I do have to take exception to your statement concerning Vietnam. There was a purpose to that war and to say that it was useless is to demean all those good men and women that died fighting for a cause they believed in. A cause I believed in. A just cause that cost me the use of both my legs, but I am not bitter about Vietnam. I was there. I saw the atorcious way the communists treated there own people. I have seen old men and farmers who were made to kneel in front of their family and then shot simply because they did not have another pound of rice to give to the Viet Cong. I was witness to having young teenage girls raped and gutted out simply because their father, brother, uncle or whomever thought supporting their family was more important the fighting for the Viet Cong.

No, Steve, I am not bitter about the Vietnam war nor my government. What I am bitter about is people like you who turned your backs on the very men and women who were fighting and dying in a hell hole that you would not have the guts to face. I am bitter about people who chose to believe whatever the liberal press wanted them too and really did not know was going on. People like you and all the others on here that spout their hate out of ignorance were and are still led like cattle by the press who only want to show the bad parts and could care less about the good that is being done. If it bleeds it reads. If you don't like what is happening in this country then get the hell out!! Canada is always willing to harbor our traitors.

I come in here day after day reading the hate and anger posts. Most of the time I take them with a grain of salt because it is simply human behavior to cry about things when they don't go your way.

However, this time, Steve, I do have to take exception to your statement concerning Vietnam. There was a purpose to that war and to say that it was useless is to demean all those good men and women that died fighting for a cause they believed in. A cause I believed in. A just cause that cost me the use of both my legs, but I am not bitter about Vietnam. I was there. I saw the atorcious way the communists treated there own people. I have seen old men and farmers who were made to kneel in front of their family and then shot simply because they did not have another pound of rice to give to the Viet Cong. I was witness to having young teenage girls raped and gutted out simply because their father, brother, uncle or whomever thought supporting their family was more important the fighting for the Viet Cong.

No, Steve, I am not bitter about the Vietnam war nor my government. What I am bitter about is people like you who turned your backs on the very men and women who were fighting and dying in a hell hole that you would not have the guts to face. I am bitter about people who chose to believe whatever the liberal press wanted them too and really did not know was going on. People like you and all the others on here that spout their hate out of ignorance were and are still led like cattle by the press who only want to show the bad parts and could care less about the good that is being done. If it bleeds it reads. If you don't like what is happening in this country then get the hell out!! Canada is always willing to harbor our traitors.

Sweetheart, you've got it all wrong. I don't take offense to everything that someone says; he was being sarcastic. That's what's wrong with America now, everyone takes things offensive to much, ready to fight for insignificant things. Also, a lot of people say things that I do not want to here. But fortunately, I conduct myself as an adult, not as you do (i.e. calling people names, etc. as stated before). I cannot imagine you having even an inkling of a mature intelligent conversation. The stuff you have had said in this forum has made you sound biased, ignorant "When you come to our country and get citizenship, then and only then can you voice your opinion", and childish. How do you know this fellow does not have citizenship? (dual or sole) I could almost imagine you standing there saying those words with your hands on your hips and your finger pointed at the poor fellow. And why do you keep talking about peoples' grammar (not part of the discussion) when you continue to make errors yourself? As for your statement, "You want people to believe in what you want and only that"; please do not misquote me as those words were never typed by myself. I for one do not understand why you are so angry towards everyone whom does not share the same opinion as you. And the nerve of Howard to say, "You folks have a lot of problems of your own. So, since I don't meddle and tell you how to solve your pathetic problems...", when Americans (or at least our Government) have always been the one butting into other countries business. Invited or not.

Sweetheart, you've got it all wrong. I don't take offense to everything that someone says; he was being sarcastic. That's what's wrong with America now, everyone takes things offensive to much, ready to fight for insignificant things. Also, a lot of people say things that I do not want to here. But fortunately, I conduct myself as an adult, not as you do (i.e. calling people names, etc. as stated before). I cannot imagine you having even an inkling of a mature intelligent conversation. The stuff you have had said in this forum has made you sound biased, ignorant "When you come to our country and get citizenship, then and only then can you voice your opinion", and childish. How do you know this fellow does not have citizenship? (dual or sole) I could almost imagine you standing there saying those words with your hands on your hips and your finger pointed at the poor fellow. And why do you keep talking about peoples' grammar (not part of the discussion) when you continue to make errors yourself? As for your statement, "You want people to believe in what you want and only that"; please do not misquote me as those words were never typed by myself. I for one do not understand why you are so angry towards everyone whom does not share the same opinion as you. And the nerve of Howard to say, "You folks have a lot of problems of your own. So, since I don't meddle and tell you how to solve your pathetic problems...", when Americans (or at least our Government) have always been the one butting into other countries business. Invited or not.

Sweetheart, you've got it all wrong. I don't take offense to everything that someone says; he was being sarcastic. That's what's wrong with America now, everyone takes things offensive to much, ready to fight for insignificant things. Also, a lot of people say things that I do not want to here. But fortunately, I conduct myself as an adult, not as you do (i.e. calling people names, etc. as stated before). I cannot imagine you having even an inkling of a mature intelligent conversation. The stuff you have had said in this forum has made you sound biased, ignorant "When you come to our country and get citizenship, then and only then can you voice your opinion", and childish. How do you know this fellow does not have citizenship? (dual or sole) I could almost imagine you standing there saying those words with your hands on your hips and your finger pointed at the poor fellow. And why do you keep talking about peoples' grammar (not part of the discussion) when you continue to make errors yourself? As for your statement, "You want people to believe in what you want and only that"; please do not misquote me as those words were never typed by myself. I for one do not understand why you are so angry towards everyone whom does not share the same opinion as you. And the nerve of Howard to say, "You folks have a lot of problems of your own. So, since I don't meddle and tell you how to solve your pathetic problems...", when Americans (or at least our Government) have always been the one butting into other countries business. Invited or not.

Valencia,

You would be the one needing "therapy." As a Washingtonian yourself, you should have taken offense to the "spelling." Don't mind me, why, because I sepak what you don't want to hear. You want people to believe in what you want and only that. How contridicting.

Adam,

How the "Chemo?" That's what I thought. You're so full of yourself that many people on this site don't believe you've ever seen a battle field. You continously rant and rave. Calling someone a "n**i" because they believe we should fight for our rights and freedom? I am an Amerian Indian, the only TRUE American race, so calling me something as insulting as that shows how ignorant you really are. By the way, that phrase was used awhile ago ont his post, by another poster, yet you claim to be "Adam," this poor old dude with so many problems (including starting crap w/ everyone ont his post), yet you seem to use the same quotes as others. To which, I will remind you, many others have pointed out. So really, most of us are on to your little trolling expedition.

Adumb,

You accuse me of supporting this war? Hah! You are a nutjob in spades.

My biggest fear right now is that Bush will expand this chaos throughout the Middle East by invading more countries under weak pretexts.

When the WMD failed to apear in Iraq, Bush lamely said "Saddam was a bad, bad man and needed to be removed."

I agree with that statement. Saddam killed people by the trainloads to keep his control of the country. He was a bad man.

Has America become the saviors of the entire world now? Why is it suddenly our "holy jihad mandate" to remove "bad, bad men"? THAT is the very thinking of terrorists.

This is a dangerous line of thought. There may be someone in another country thinking that the American president is a bad, bad man who will suddenly decide that we must be releived of him.

By default, using Bushie's own argument, any country would be justified to invade to "save us" from Bush as long as they are convinced he is "bad".

In fact, with Bushie's awful behavior there are probaly many people around the world thinking that the president is a bad guy these days.

Bush is using America's military might to engage in a giant d**k-waving contest with the entire world. It is stupid and juvenile of him to do that. I most certinly do NOT approve.

I am not in the military but have family that is. I lived through Viet Nam and the annihilation of thousands of young men for a cause that did not exist. Oh, I think some elected politicians made a buck or two from it since war is a money maker for those with conections. Does the word quagmire mean anyhting to you?

You are just pissed becasue I did not support you in selling out your ideals and being goofy enough to think it would make a difference. That is a very Bushian way of thinking. It is the mealy-mouthed thinking of Congress who sold out to get us involved in this mess.

Saddam is removed now, in case no one has noticed. It is time to come home. Yes, there will be civl war in Iraq, but Bush should have considered that before tipping the boat over. There has been civil wars and coups in the middle east since Christ walked the earth and before.

America will not chnage that, it will just aggravate it. There is a long history in the middle east of ridding themselves of one tyrant and replacing him with one worse. The people there will have to deal with it at some point if they want it to stop.

I would like to see Bush put his d**k back in his pants and give some attention to the poor, homeless, unemployed, hungry, fraud-stricken, desperate people in THIS country for a change. You know...AMERICA. The country he is supposed to be the leader of?

How does any of these statements "support" Bushie's unholy war? Bush is a loose cannon, and so are people that accuse others of saying things that were not said!

Pleas tell me what I typed that made you think I support Bush or the war so that I may immediately correct it. I thought I had been speaking out against the stupidity of it all as well as the stupidity of selling out one's ideals, Adumb.

Well April you have my mouth dropped to the floor. I take back every rotten thing I have ever said to you. Does Dale feel the same way about all of this?

Adam, you are not alone. You'd have to be an intelligence insider for real to understand why some of us do not support this war. But as always, to each its own... And to John, my fellow Washingtonian, don't mind April or the others that care to give their schoolyard outbursts. I am sure they are in need of some serious therapy. Especially Jim; the way he talks, its' a wonder he even has a job. I hope he doesn't curse at his children like that (if he has any). If anyone of you even thinks that Bush has no ulterior motive, or had no knowledge about the attacks, then you are all naive.
America will wake up one day when/if the truth ever gets out.

You people defend a war that really has nothing to do with our wonderful country. We are sending our young men and women to a stupid war that does not threaten a single AMERICAN LIFE. That a-hole saddam has never been a threat to our great nation. We should not waste our cherished children fighting a stupid battle that will only make rich men richer. As a proud veteran, I believe I can speak to this issue much better than any cowardly piece of dung who has never been in battle, So, go ahead and talk about something you have no freaking idea about.

John mis-spells "Washington" on purpose in order to poke fun at the way the President pronounces the word. See, John is on the endangered species list; a liberal who espouses tolerance and diversity but thinks it's okay to mock someone who speaks with a Texas drawl; or, as he stated in an earlier message.."gullible yahoos in 'redneck states' who are ill-educated and low class..". It's the same old liberal/elitist
double standard that has become so tiresome.

Since John likes to rake others over the coals, I'm sure he won't mind a little payback. He identifies himself as being from Washington, D.C. so it's almost axiomatic that he is involved with the federal government in some capacity...care to tell us which agency you work for John? State Dept? GAO? A disgruntled CIA operative? No, John is most likely a GS-5 clerk working in the basement of some nondescript government building who spends most of his time surfing the internet instead of doing his job.

John has theorized in a previous message that Bush conspired with Rumsfeld and Wolfowicz to invade Iraq and capture their oil, thereby enraging the "Arab street", but somehow he cannot make the connection between Iraq and al-quaeda. Although that terrorist organization has been identified as being active in Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Sudan, The Netherlands, Spain, England, France, Germany, The Phillipines, as well as Arizona, Minnesota, Michigan and Florida, John would have us believe that somehow they missed Iraq. He doesn't subscribe to the theory that the fuselage of the 747 airplane located at Salman Pak in Iraq was used to train terrorists. No, probably it was just used by Saddam and his sons on the weekends for a little recreational torturing.

John, it time for you to wake up and smell what you're shoveling. The next time I want any s**t out of you, I'll squeeze your head!

Hey, John, If you really want people to listen to your opinions and believe for one second that you're a US citizen, voicing these opinions; I would strongly suggest you learn how to spell "Washington!"

"Thanks for all of your sacrifices in keeping America safe from those who seek to destroy our way of life". What an uplifting and positive message to the men and women who serve our country in the Armed Forces... NOT!

I've got news for you, Mister. The troops in Iraq and the American Industrial-Military Complex are not "keeping America safe". They are doing just the opposite: They are making America LESS safe! The American invasion of Iraq has played right into the hands of the terrorists and the Islamic Fundamentalist clerics in the region who claim that the United States Government are infidels who are trying to destroy Islam. This has created a situation which has encouraged hundreds of thousands of Arab and Islamic men to fight the American occupation of Iraq by becoming members of terrorist and jihadist groups.

The number one offender in respect to "those who seek to destroy our way of life" are John Asscroft and the right-wing religious kooks in the Bush Administration who have used the 9/11 attacks as a subterfuge in order to create the Orwellian USA PATRIOT Act which is ultimately designed to create a police state and drastically curtail our civil rights and freedoms guaranteed by the Bill of Rights.

George W. Bush, you have "misunderestimated" the will of the Iraqi people in their desire to repel the American invaders who are conducting a proxy war on Islam on behalf of the Israeli demons!!!

I would like to pause on this Thansgiving Day to express my heartfelt gratitude to all of our military men and women. I pray to God for your safety and swift return to your families.

Thanks for all of your sacrifices in keeping America safe from those who seek to destroy our way of life.

I would like to pause on this Thansgiving Day to express my heartfelt gratitude to all of our military men and women. I pray to God for your safety and swift return to your families.

Thanks for all of your sacrifices in keeping America safe from those who seek to destroy our way of life.

I would like to pause on this Thansgiving Day to express my heartfelt gratitude to all of our military men and women. I pray to God for your safety and swift return to your families.

Thanks for all of your sacrifices in keeping America safe from those who seek to destroy our way of life.

George Bush's narrow victory over the dull John Kerry was a well-deserved personal triumph. But it would not have happened without brilliant Republican strategist Karl Rove, who achieved a narrow Bush win in spite of two failing wars abroad, a weak economy, and monster budget deficits. But the decisive vote that gave Bush victory came from what the s****.> The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, costing a least $6.5 billion monthly, are, at best stalemated; at worst, lost. The aim of war is to achieve political goals. Both interventions have failed on the strategic level since US political goals have not been realized in either nation.

If the US withdraws its troops from Iraq or Afghanistan, the regimes it installed will be swept away in short order. But half the US army is tied down in these stalemated, hugely expensive colonial wars.

So Bush must decide to continue these un-winnable conflicts, or find some face-saving way out. The president must also deal with terrorism. Killing Osama bin Laden will not eliminate the anti-American hatred surging across the Muslim world, where the US is facing a spreading insurgency against its political and economic domination. Americans have yet to understand this fact.

You have got to be kidding. Or at least yourself. Bush did not win the 2004 election for his first term being elected. Believe all the BS you want as to the 2000 election, Bush won, became president, get over it.

You want to talk about the US solders killing innocents in Iraq, etc. Hello, Sadam killed countless Iraqi Citizens on a daily basis, just because they disagreed with some tyranny he would try to impose. What women can't be anything but obedient baby makers? Not in this day and time and no where on earth should this be. Children should be taught to use deadly force at a very young age? Again this should not be happening anywhere on earth.

You talk about religious agendas and ideas; funny thing is you bring up the US not helping with the Holy Wars between the Israel's and Palestine's. But that is what has happened there, a Holy War. They are fighting each other because they oppose each other's religious beliefs and upbringings. However, any one believing in ANY God should know that their God would not find killings and placing weapons in children's hand acceptable, there is no such thing as a Holy War. This is man's way of copping out to a notion of aggression towards others. I hate to see what's happening there, but no, we should not be there, that is not our fight. You bring up that Bush claims to speak to God, I must have missed something because ewe didn't hear that here, but OK. However, hundreds of thousands of people claim to speak to their God, does that make everyone of those people religious extremist?

There are good reasons for this war and wrong reasons and the US and others can debate this forever. The fact of the matter is, you believe the news is keeping a hush-hush on what's really going on there. OK, maybe so, but we should all believe they're hiding something because you have speculations? I know for a fact that everything going on there is not reported, as with any war or battle. I've seen people come back for periods of time, and as it has been for hundreds of years, they can't speak specifics to civilians, but can tell us that it is bad over there. However, war is not supposed to be a wonderful place to be or to even hear about.

You bring up the 9/11 Commission. Let me remind you that this commission was put in place by those opposing Bush and this war. So, anything said will be contradicted one way or another. You don't honestly believe there weren't WMD? You don't honestly believe that Sadam and Bin Laden had nothing to do with one another? Come on now, this is common sense. Funny, 98% of US citizens were behind this war in the beginning. That is the most backing any president has had in history. Yet now, of those people have changed their minds. That is not Bush's fault, but our own. If Clinton had went after Bin Laden when he knew of his were abouts, which he admitted he did, this would never have happened, nor would we have had to endure the terrorist actions of 9/11 nor worry every single day as to what might or might not happen. Put the blame where it should be, not on the only person that had the guts to back his words.

What I don't like about this war; for the same reasons people have changed their minds; we've granted an enormous amount of funding for this war and those people in that country. Yet, we can't help those less fortunate in our own backyard. You can not walk near the White House without seeing numerous homeless men, women and children. Maybe some of these people are there on their own accord, but for all those that were down on their luck or lost their jobs (because of the numerous work losses in the last 6 years), or just something they couldn't help, why can't we spend some money to help those HERE who need it. Te only other problem I have, we have Sadam and we don't know where Bin Laden is , and no the US doesn't know, so why can't our men and women come home to their families, wouldn't that make for the best Christmas present?

Like I've said before, we could argue this forever and if someone wants to bust on the way our economy is right now, etc. So be it, I'm right there. But this is getting old, it's the same old song and dance.

You have to admit that Jorge Arbusto (The literal translation of George Bush into Spanish) is a buffoon and an embarassment. People in other counrties look at this sorry excuse for a President and shake their heads in disgust at the stupidity of the American people for electing him. Prince George (The son of the infamous King "Read My Lips" George) was elected President (notice how I didn't say "re-elected") because of all of the gullible yahoos located in the so-called "Red States" (actually, "Redneck States" would be a better description). These ill-educated, low-class sheep blindly do what they are told, and never question their shepherd, Bush. When Georgie Porgie decided that Iraq would be Number One on America's Hit List, no one was gonna talk him and his Neo Con-artist "advisors" such as Paul Wolfowitz and Donald Rumsfeld out of going to war. They knew that Iraq no longer had any more WMDs, but they didn't care. There was gonna be an invasion of Iraq, come hell or high water! Ever wonder why Dumbya didn't invade North Korea or Iran, which are a far greater threat to America's national security than Iraq ever was? Simple... Iraq was the weakest country in the so-called "Axis Of Evil". Why pick a fight with a country that is capable of putting up a fight when you can invade a beaten down weak country like Iraq? George the lesser also had another reason for "getting even" with Iraq and it's dictator Saddam Hussein (who the United States helped bring to power): Saddam tried to assasinate Bush's daddy, aka Bush 41, when he traveled to Kuwait in 1993. Little Bush wasn't going to let Big Bad Saddam get away with that!!! The United States invaded Iraq in March 2003, and after a relatively easy victory over the demoralized Iraqi Army, has decended into a quagmire reminicent of Vietnam. The United States invasion, as predicted by many experts, has succeeded in nothing but creating a new generation of America-hating Islamic Fundamentalists and terrorists. Over 1,200 American military personnel have died since the invasion began, and FOR NOTHING! The United States has backed itself into a corner, and will have to maintain a strong military presence in Iraq for decades to come! What about the Iraqi elections in January? Give me a break!!! Unless the U.S. continues to maintain it's puppet government in Iraq, the country will be torn apart by civil war! So, in the end, we are in a lose-lose situation in respect to Iraq. More American soldiers will die, billions and billions of dollars will continue to be wasted, more terrorists will be spawned, and America will be less safe. I wouldn't be surprised if Georgie Boy and his White House "tough guys" use another subterfuge in order to invade Syria or Iran in the coming months!!! (Can anyone say "World War Three"?) To all of the fools who voted for Bush and his Republican Congressional cohorts: You get what you deserve!

First of all, right now the world is a far more dangerous place than it ever was before the Bush invaded Iraq. You asked why the invasion is being called a so-called-war. Well, it's because the attack on Iraq was an act of cowardice and deceit. After imposing decades of sanctions that crippled the infrastructure, starved civilians, and making sure there was no way that Saddam or his army could fight back, US launched a preemptive attack, going against the UN, breaking any and all international laws. Operation Iraqi Freedom, I think not. It is more like let's run a race, but first let me break your legs.

Bush used an excuse that Saddam had WMD and was dangerous for the US and the Middle East. Since the end of the war way back in March 2003, there is still no sign of and WMD. Then Bush flip flopped' to a new excuse for his illegal invasion by claiming that Iraq had a link with Al-Qaida and Osama. Again, this claim was proven false by the 9/11 commission and intelligence reports of the CIA. Now the new tactic is being used, claiming that Saddam and Iraq had intentions of making WMD. Yet again, there is no evidence to support this theory.

Why is Israel's weapon program not being questioned? Why do they continue to drop bombs on civilians in Palestine and get away with murder? Why does US look away when 3000 Muslims are butchered in India under Vajpai? Why does it not make India a terrorist state? Why does it not matter when thousands of women and children are killed in Somalia, Chechnya, Bosnia and Sudan? I think the real reason behind this illegal occupation is not to freedom or liberation of Iraqi people. It is to give capitol gains to big corporations and get kickbacks in the form of campaign funding'.

Secondly, Bush and his foreign policy has always been brutal and his so called government of the people, by the people, and for the people never let the civil population hear the real story by controlling the media and how and what they report. The minds of the nation are being controlled by constantly bombarding them with false and bogus news. US citizens are made to believe that they are still a free nation. We don't have to look to far back to see how this democracy manipulates the system for their own advantage. The presidential election of 2000 made a total mockery of the US judicial system. The whole world witnessed that saga unfold as a self proclaimed leader, George W Bush, after losing the elections became the president. Even the 2004 campaign was a slugging match and Bush, after landing the heaviest punch was elected president for the first time. His weapon of choice, fog their minds with fear of another 9/11 and use religious extremism by claiming that he talks to God.

I voted for Bush because he goes to church and believes in God. Was the response of most people in southern states who voted for Bush.

Isn't this religious extremism? Isn't this a case of a tyrant who manipulated the people, twisted the truth, and has had over 1200 of his men killed in Iraq because of his selfish motives.

Lastly, I would like say that lobbyists and special interest groups influence the US media. Listening to the news you can tell that they are hiding, or let's just say not reporting the whole truth. When the US media talks about deaths in Iraq, if they do, they only give a count of the US casualties. So, does that mean that the lives of Iraqis and other coalition forces are insignificant? Iraqi's are fighting for their freedom from the US invaders, why are they always referred to as insurgents? These are freedom fighters struggling to get their land back from invaders. What about the hundreds of thousands of civilian lives lost in the process of the SO CALLED world peace and what about human rights of all those people who have been humiliated and butchered in the process?

It is difficult to understand how Bush can sleep at night after being responsible for the biggest mistake since Vietnam. Maybe all those years of being an alcoholic have permanently damaged his ability to comprehend reality. He has become a danger to himself and to human race after invading Iraq.

All Iraqis watch as their homes and mosques are desecrated by soldiers who shoot injured men in the stomach in pre-emptive lunacy that mirrors that of their leader. They and a billion Muslims watched as Americans forbade families from burying their dead, and allowed stray dogs to gnaw the corpses of pregnant women and toddlers on the mean streets of what was once Fallujah. No one is taken in by the lies and arrogance and greed of this racist war.

Iraq is an occupied country, with a proud and stubborn people, who will never cease fighting till they are finally rid of their unspeakable latter-day oppressors.

"The national government will maintain and defend the foundations on which the power of our nation rests. It will offer strong protection to Christianity as the very basis of our collective morality. Today Christians stand at the head of our country. We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit. We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theatre, and in the press-- in short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of LIBERAL excess during the past years." -- Adolf Hitler

"The national government will maintain and defend the foundations on which the power of our nation rests. It will offer strong protection to Christianity as the very basis of our collective morality. Today Christians stand at the head of our country. We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit. We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theatre, and in the press-- in short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of LIBERAL excess during the past years." -- Adolf Hitler

"The national government will maintain and defend the foundations on which the power of our nation rests. It will offer strong protection to Christianity as the very basis of our collective morality. Today Christians stand at the head of our country. We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit. We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theatre, and in the press-- in short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of LIBERAL excess during the past years." -- Adolf Hitler

"The national government will maintain and defend the foundations on which the power of our nation rests. It will offer strong protection to Christianity as the very basis of our collective morality. Today Christians stand at the head of our country. We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit. We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theatre, and in the press-- in short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of LIBERAL excess during the past years." -- Adolf Hitler

Paul is more aware of what "Evil Bush" is doing than some Americans.

Now what is going on these days? Bush has "asked" any modertes to leave his Cabinet and packed it with hawks like himself. Or maybe some of these Cabinet members just could not stomach the big green weenie eater anymore and left for the sake of their own morals. We will never know the real truth.

Bush is going to spend his "political capital" to gain his own ends. Big noises are being made about the Iranian nuke program, which will probaly lead to a new invasion. Heck, we are right next door now so it won't be too hard.

Same crap we heard about the WMD in Iraq. If Iran was the danger, why are we in Iraq? Could it be becasue Iraq is central in the middle east and a base there would be mighty handy right about now?

Many other countries hate America with a black passion now, which invites further attacks on our soil and the attacks can come from just about anyplace. Chile may attack, who knows.

Bush has squandered any good-will America had anyplace in the world.

Bush wants to amke the illegal aliens legal by fiat and erase the borders all over the world, starting with Mexico and canada. He ignores any rule, law or treaty that is in his way like it don't exist.

Bush wants the New World Order with one currency and one goverment. Now that he has no stake in impresing voters, he will pursue this like his butt is on fire.

I think he will have no qualms about invading any and everbody all over this planet. He will tell America and the world any lie it takes to cover his a$$ and go for it. He is like a mad dog.

Maybe those green weenies will make him sick someday and he will have to go to a quiet place to recover for a long time. If not, we will all have to go on the defense every minute because there is no telling what this crazy person will do next or what he will unleash on us.

But is Bush gets sick we will have Cheny and i don't even want to get started...both of them are evil to the bone.

Bush wants to be king of the whole world and doesn't care how many citizens get killed for him to acheive that goal. After all they aren't his relatives dying. They're yours and mine.

Frank from OK...Kerry would raise the taxes..on those earning over 200k a year. They say that only two groups of individuals supported Bush; the very rich and the very stupid. How big is your wallet?

The Iranians move to secure nucs issue is completely and totally opposite of the Iraq fiasco. Why? Because Iran and N. Korea actually DO have a nuclear weapons program now and they both had one before we invaded Iraq. By Bush invading Iraq, these two countries actually took the opportunity to ramp up their production while our resources are concentrated in Iraq. Not a good scenario for the world and a very stupid strategy chosen by Bush. We're stuck in Iraq now so we have to finish it. But Bush & Co better start a real strategy to deal with N. Korea, Iran and Al Queda or we'll all be sorry. Iran, N. Korea? My position? Diplomacy as far as we can, covert operations to kill the power-holders, then bomb the f**k out of the nuclear facilities if necessary.

Monday morning quarterbacking? Iraq DID NOT have a nuclear weapons program and the world knew it. But Bush & Co chose to invade Iraq for reasons that remain unknown to all of us.

I believe that those of us who opposed Bush's choice to invade Iraq before the invasion, people like Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf, Brent Scowcroft, Colin Powell, John Dean, Gen. Shinseki (fired by Bush or presenting a better plan), Richard Clarke (America's top terrorism expert fired by Bush), 50% of the US populace, the World, most Democrats and me voiced our opposition BEFORE the invasion began.

Now of course, in hindsight we all have the 9/11 Commission Report (9/11 = no connections to Iraq), Bush's 8/03 speech to the nation (no link to 9/11), the Duelfer CIA report (no WMD or Chem/BIO weapons), David Kaye's (Bush's own inspector to Iraq to find WMD) testimony that there was nothing (he was fired with too), Joseph Wilson's whistle blowing on the yellow cake uranium tall tale (Bush & Co. publicly exposed his wife's role as a covert CIA agent. An actual felony for the rest of us), etc. ,etc. Disturbingly, even with all of these FACTS available to anyone who has access to a computer or a bookstore that prove that our position in opposing the invasion of Iraq was/is correct, the radical-religious right in our country (people like you) simply refuse to accept these facts and many of you continue to insist that Iraq has WMD and was linked to 9/11. Like someone once said, those d**n stubborn facts keep getting in the way.

Meanwhile, Osama bin Laden who ACTUALLY ATTACKED the US on 9/11 remains free plotting more attacks on the US, and the rest of the world due, largely, to the simple fact that Bush & Co spent all of our resources on a foolish invasion instead of destroying the actual enemy who attacked us.

The only Monday morning quarterbacking on Iraq came from people who supported the invasion of Iraq but now realize that the facts show that it was a grave mistake. I'm not one of those people.

April, I think you are one of the few who truly understand the severity of the issue. But you are missing one point. If we let TYRANTS like Bush and Blair rule superpowers like USA and UK (somewhat) then we will see nothing but death, war and destruction.

Reelection is, perhaps, the greatest, political endorsement. On November 2, after a $750 million campaign, the American electorate not only re-elected George Bush as its president but also handed the conservative Republicans a majority in the Senate, the House of Representatives and the governorships of the states.

This time, Mr. Bush won the popular vote (52 per cent) beating John Kerry by 3.5 million votes. The Supreme Court too is now likely to retain its conservative majority for the foreseeable future. Through the fog of election statistics, a definite step to the right can be seen. What were the Americans thinking?

Internationally, Mr. Bush's first term smacked of a palpable disregard for international institutions, laws, treaties and regulations. After a unilateral withdrawal from the Kyoto Protocol, he angered the EU by arbitrarily imposing duties on steel imports from Europe in violation of WTO regulations. He led an illegal and unjustified invasion and occupation of Iraq, weakening the United Nations and Nato.

His administration has kept hundreds of prisoners of war incarcerated at Guantanamo Bay without trial and outside the Geneva Conventions. Add to this, the systematic and sustained physical and sexual abuse of prisoners at the Abu Ghraib jail uncovered earlier this year. It's no surprise that most nations of the world were praying for Kerry to win.

Aside from the arrest of a handful of terrorists leaders, Libya's abandonment of its nuclear programme and the holding of elections in Afghanistan, there is little to cite by way of Mr. Bush's foreign policy achievements.

Domestically too, the Bush administration's record is questionable. It curbed civil liberties, converted its inherited budget surplus into the country's largest budget deficit and there was a loss of over a million jobs.

Mr. Bush, in fact, earned the distinction of being the first president since Herbert Hoover to have lost more jobs during a presidential tenure than having created new jobs. Yet states such as Ohio, which lost 200,000 jobs over the last four years, preferred Mr. Bush over Mr. Kerry, albeit narrowly.

April stated: "This site is intended to notify people of bad company behavior, not for your way to vent out on the world."
How true, but everyone is insulting each other and calling each other names about each others opinions like kids. And still keeping the forum going about the election. And yes I guess I believe in the conspiracy theories about the adminsitration; they are all crooked. How come the official 9/11 report submitted to Intelligence was blacked out in some places? Gee, I wonder what information we are really missing...
But of course, I also believe that we should move on to the future since the election is over (at least this one was fair). Its' not much we can do about the situation besides move to another country, if we shall so please. "The storm clouds are gathering and things just ain't right these days in the good old US of A." So true. Folks remember, there has not been an outside war on American soil in a very long time. If we were to get hit by a war here, civilian Americans would not be prepared because some of us would be too busy on this forum defending George W.
GOD help us all...

Man,Some people never learn. Personal comments aside...I think if someone belives Bush and Chaney are great leaders, then they need a reality check:

THE WORLD IS MUCH DANGEROUS PLACE NOW THEN IT EVER WS BEFORE THE ILLEGAL (YES IT IS AN ILLEGAL) WAR. Against the UN and nothing but collateral damage.

And besides, who died and made Bush the savior of humanity. If you could get your arse out of your behind maybe you could see better. I feel for the innocent people who have died because of this ILLEGAL war.

History will only tell who is wrong and who is right. I hope by then the world can forgive the actions of Bush for his selfish motives of going into Iraq.

Whoah there Paul - Take a step back with your comments!

100K Iraqi Civilians massacred since the US Invasion. Like that should bother you and yours in the least. How many innocent Irish men, women, and children have been murdered by the Brits?

Your comments:
1) Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11 (proven by 9/11 commission);
2) Saddam did not harbor any terrorists (proven by CIA);
3) Iraq did not possess any WMD (the main reason for going to war).

Before commenting why don't you take the time to READ the Commission's Report on 9/11, specifically page 61, where Bin Laden supported Islamist Extremists, that later became known as Ansar al Islam. Page 66 shows where Iraq offered Bin Laden a safe haven. Also try page 128 where the US Indictment stated a cooperation between Iraq and the Sudanese, on chemical weapons. Hmmm, where did Bin Laden hang out for years? Maybe it was Sudan!

These are just a few of the many links in the Commission's Report on 9/11. Might want to research before making ignorant comments that do nothing but make you look like an a*s!

Fox and CNN??? Like comparing Apples to Oranges.

Please get off of the Halliburton issue. The no-bid contract clause was inacted by the Clinton Administration. Again ingnorance!

Why don't do something you are good at! Drinking you Tea and eating Crumpets!

Intelligent arguments only please!

Kevin, GA - surely you do not believe your SS benefits are going to get cut. How do you think Kerry was going to support his agenda? Tax increases. Also if your pay gets lowered, get another job that pays more. If your argument is education/training holding you back, is that our fault? I don't see it that way. Everyone makes decisions in there life based on the circumstances at that time, and you have to live with the choices you make.

BTW the election is over. W won, lets move on!

Well I see the die-hard liberals are still moaning and groaning about how the election went. You all sound like a bunch of spoiled brats who throw temper tantrums when you don't get your own way. You can sit there in your private little room crying into your beer and typing out all your theorys of why your candidate did not win, but when it comes right down to it, Bush won because the people of this nation wanted him to win!! Get used to it . . .get over it! Now there are some who even want to blame their loss on religion. What a crock that is! Kerry's lose had nothing to do with religion nor did Bush's win. Kerry lost because the majority of people did not like his message or trust his intentions. It's as simple as that. The best candidate won the election because "we the people" spoke. Nothing more . . nothing less.

Unfortunately, I agree totaly. We are in for one hell of a ride.

I'm afraid to think what has been transpiring during my lifetime. Both parties seem to be extremely corrupt, and when they get into power, there are scandals. As a result, the voters finally get sick of the party in power, and replace them. Corrupt Nixon was replaced by well-intentioned, but ineffective Carter. Then came 12 years of Reagan/Bush which started the gerrymandering process - which has polarized us into the Red/Blue states. After Bush, the elder, took us to war in Kuwait (as a product demonstration for the armaments for sale by his military campaign donors), while giving tax rebates to wealthy donors (just like Reagan and Son-Of-Bush ) while trashing the economy, and the environment, we replaced him with Clinton. But for the 8 years under Clinton, the Neo-cons were building their links among the right-wing militaristic Christians. They were organizing...while painting the Clintons as evil. Hillary was hated just as much as Bill, because she was smart and strong. They correctly saw her as a threat.

When the Neo-cons swept into power disguised as Son-Of-Bush, they started implementing a structural remaking of our society's laws and infrastructure. And when 9/11 happened, they leveraged that into marketing FEAR to middle-America. The cities, which are much more vulnerable to terrorist attacks, didn't buy their line. But the people in the ex-urbs did... Bush II was re-elected, and now has nothing to restrain him from pressing forward in a massive revamping of our social system. Every governmental program which benefits people who can't pay for the service will have its funding cut. As a result, taxes paid by the super wealthy will cease. For some reason, those "Have-mores" think that the population of this country exists to be used to generate wealth for them. Yet, they are not responsible for the health care and financial welfare of people who are no longer productive in society. They use a worker's youth, like any commodity, and then dispose of them after they have started showing diminishing returns...

Environmental controls are viewed as being unnecessary and expensive deterants to profit. The global capitalists have moved their operations to third-world countries where environmental laws are virtually non-existent. The resulting global pollution will nagatively impact all societies...

Meanwhile, each time the Neo-cons came to power since they were born under Eisenhower, they have attempted to change the laws to favor the super-rich. This a class war between the Capitalists and the Workers. Middle-Class America didn't exist until the 1950's when the birth of the large corporation happened. Coupled with the Black migration to the Northern cities, White-flight caused a massive amount of the tax-base to flee to the suburbs. People traded in a row-home and a streetcar in the 1920's for a suburban carport and a commute to the beltway. At this point, most wealthy Americans have no reason to venture into the heart of their closest city. Enjoying dramatically cheap energy, as compared to the rest of the world, they have all the shopping, entertainment and hotels they need in their own community. As a result, the cities have fallen into decay.

The Neo-cons have fanned the flames of racism, homophobia and anti-women's rights using a religious theme to tap into a growing fundamentalist trend among ex-urban whites. And, they count on the fact that fifty percent of the public is below average...who can be easily swayed by repeated false charges.

During the next four years, we will be subjected to changes to our society which we have not even imagined. Social Security will become "Privitized" such that people like me who are approaching retirement age will be left with nothing. Medicare and Medicaid will cease to exist as we currently know them, because the Treasury will be bankrupt. And healthcare will become so expensive that the majority of the public won't be able to afford it. In a move to remain competitive (so they will claim), wages and benefits will be drastically cut. (In the past four years, Home Depot has cut its salary from $10 to $7 per hour... Yet their employees - who are in transition [divorce, job-loss, etc.] - will take anything to survive...)

We are going to watch as our society remains permanently at war, with the ultra-poor members being used as expendable cannon-fodder. The resulting value of human life will only be apparent as a rallying cry against abortion.

Our country has already begun a decent into a very dark period. Our Democracy is a sham, with elections already being pre-determined by districting and negative advertising. The Neo-con puppetmasters know exactly what they are doing, and have traded our Democracy for the timeless qualities of avarice: greed and power... Every government needs a scapegoat to distract the public's attention from internal wrong-doings. And since we didn't have an national enemies after the Soviet Union fell and China became the global sweatshop, I believe the Neo-Cons intentionally created the conditions which resulted in 9/11. It was well known in our govenment that Muslim extremeists wanted to attack our country. Other governments warned of the impending event, stating the process to be used, and even identifying the number of attackers. Our own FBI cried out about Saudis learning to fly without learning to land... The fact that Ashcroft stopped flying commercial planes shortly before 9/11 says a lot. Yet, airport security remained a joke, until the terrorists attacked. Bush was briefed that Bin Laden was going to attack... And yet, Bush did nothing...

Why? Because adverse public anger toward Middle-easterners could be channeled into eliminating basic freedoms for all Americans.

With our electorate returning Bush to power, we deserve what we get as a result. I know that the Neo-cons will destroy our government with the sole purpose of enriching the already super-rich. Their intent is to destroy the middle-class, so that there will not be any opposition to their continued rule. They created the Patriot Act I, II (& soon to be III) as a means to crush political opposition. The Neo-Cons in power will retroactively justify their conflicts of interest and illegal activities.

When the half of America which performed as they were programmed and re-elected Bush finally realizes what they have done, I just hope that it isn't too late to reverse the Neo-Cons destruction. Otherwise, America will fall off the cliff into the Third World. It will be a dark time where the bullies of the world brutalize their victims. We will probably follow the Soviet's results of having gangsters take over society.

Either way, the time of cheap energy will be over. So if you live in a mega-hut, with multiple heaters and air conditioners, you had better drastically downsize... I'm heavily invested in gold, which is still the basis for most of the world's currencies. And it should retain its value if the dollar crashes... Check out the following gold stocks: KGC, NEM, WHT, BGO, PDG, GG, ABX, AU.

Have a good day!

As an an American citizen I can use my vote as I choose.This time, I chose to vote for the Democratic candidate as he was the only candidate that had a chance of winning against the Bush/Cheney machine.

In my local elections, I voted Libertarian. Calling me a communist is the most rediculous thing you could do. I am and will continue to be a Libertarian. It was just way to important to try to get Bush out of the White House for me to waste my vote on an admittedly excellent candidate who unfortunately had no chance.

Remember this is America!

I, too, am not an American citizen - I am South African - and I have, also, aired my own views on this forum but have never had such a vehement response from any one of you guys! I have always thought that the Americans themselves are an amazing people! The fact of the matter is - that American does affect the lives of many many people outside of the USA! No-one can argue the fact - so it does seem a tad unfair to deny outside comment - dont' you think? In our case, sanctions imposed by the Americans led to our new democracy - something for which we will all be grateful always. There are so many opinions on this war - so many broken hearts and broken lives on both sides of the fence that I find it difficult to form any opinion. Newspapers will always be newspapers and will always have to be a little sensationalist to attract readers. Public opinion constantly changes and, quite frankly, it is difficult to know exactly who to believe. However, if we South Africans could put our horrific past behind us and work together to build a future in which everyone has an equal stake, then so can anyone else. We have eleven official languages and a myriad of different cultures, languages and faiths - and all find a home here. I fervently believe that the American people are well able to sort out their own difficulties themselves - but it will do them no harm to listen to anyone else that wishes to comment. Surely one can only learn from this? I believe that there is not one life on this planet worth losing - and that each life lost is one too many - and that includes christian, muslim, hindu, jewish, catholic, buddist - and whatever else exists. Lets be calm about this - and not shoot from the hip - lets listen, talk and negotiate. God Bless America.

Excuse me, you pompus, arogant, brit. If I remember correctly, we kicked you out of our lives over 200 years ago because of your instistance to meddle where you had no business. I guess some things don't change. Besides, your island doesn't seem to have the "Paradise" banner waving over it. You folks have a lot of problems of your own. So, since I don't meddle and tell you how to solve your pathetic problems, you can keep your stuffed shirt, nose in the air, pithy, comments to yourself.

OK, first, what right do you have to bust on our president? He's not yours, you don't live in the US or have citizenship. Your so-called "proven" by... is nothing more than here say in your country. If you want to bust on your leader, so be it, but you have no right to bust on ours.

This is not an ILLEGAL war. The sense of that is idiotic. People will believe or not believe in war. I strongly believe we are fighting for the rights of our people. As I am sure 48% of the American people would disagree. But it's that 52% that re-elected Bush. And lets, all face it, it's better than the alternative regardless if you are or aren't a Bush supporter.

Now, if an American wants to argue about our president, so be it, but not an outsider. When you come to our country and get citizenship, then and only then can you voice your opinion.

After reading some of the comments I can understand how over half of America can be so naive to re-elect Bush. I any civilized country someone with a track record of lies, deceit, and giving incomplete or false information would be impeached.

I think it is not the fault of American that they are not aware of the fact that:

1) Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11 (proven by 9/11 commission);
2) Saddam did not harbor any terrorists (proven by CIA);
3) Iraq did not possess any WMD (the main reason for going to war).

Tony Blair (aka George's lap dog) lied to the British people by taking us to war. He is NOT getting elected again as 80% of the population here in the UK feels strongly against this ILLEGAL war.

The thing that concerns me the most is that Bush feels he has to clear the world of terrorist. Well, here are the facts:
- In over 2 decades of Saddam's reign about 300,000 people were killed.
- In 18 months of US invasion over 100,000 civilians have been massacred.

Who is the terrorist now?

"People can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. All you have to do is tell them they're being attacked and denounce the pacifists for a lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country." Herman Goering.

It is not the fault of Americans to be so naive and uneducated about the facts. The media feeds bogus news. I think if Americans...or shall I say 50% or who voted for GW should get their facts from someone other that FOX and CNN.

I feel sorry for the 100,000 innocent Iraqi's who have died because of Bush's obsession with total power and his greedy friends at Halliburton, Kellogg, and other big corporations.

I am a card-carrying Libertarian and I demand you leave the Party at once, you gross sell-out. You claim to be one of us, but having followed many of your stupid comments all over this board, I know you are a liar!

Libertarians are a party that believes in the Constition as the rule of law. You believ in th "Rule of Adam" where everyone bends to your will or not at all. If they don't bend, you will hammer at them with your big hammer until they conform to your point of veiw or die.

You are a frigging Communist SOB if I ever ran across one. You do not have the strength of character it takes to be a Libertarian and to live in this country as we were intended to live.

There wer no "wasted votes" in this election. Every vote that went to Michael Badnarik was a vote not given to the radical Socialist/Communist Dem/GOP's who have spent decades ruining this country. You gave then your endorsment by giving them your vote, you traiter.

You sold our your own ideals thinking you could work the system to your favor

So now we ahve Bush and he wants you...to go to war. Or build weapons. Or to kiss his big toe and you will have to do it, you sellout.

"To thine own self be true" or sufer the consequnces. You have gotten what you deserve, you A$$hole.

Adam,

Are you really that much of a freak? Lies about you? Excuse me, but you were the one who started this whole thing with your continous BS, threats (yes, you need to re-read your posts again, abussive language and horrible name calling. Who's not wrapped tight? You really need to seek some kind of help.

By the way, since we are on this post, and as always, you post name calling and acusations rather than anything to do with a post; You are aware that a president wins by electorial votes, correct? Then why would you write, "My vote will cancell yours and my wife's will cancel Dale's?" Your vote has absolutely nothing to do with ours. By the way, who won? Get your facts straight, seek some help, and get off this site. This site is intended to notify people of bad company behavior, not for your way to vent out on the world.

I've searched the posts you referenced and unless you think I have the power to send you and your sissy husband to Iraq, I can't see how any sane person would find a threat in any of my posts. Are you two for real? Are you on some kind of medication that controls paranoia? If so I think you missed a few doses. Please, for the good of yourselves,your families and anyone else you have contact with, in person on the phone, by post or the internet. Seek help! You really aren't wired right or tight.

I'm not trying to be a smart a*s here. I look at your accusations, and I go back and check my posts, and I truly can't find anything that could be construed as a threat by anyone but a paranoid. Believe me I don't want to hurt anybody anywhere. I merely wanted you to know that I was on to your lies and then you started making up lies about me. You need to seek a mental health proffesional before the guys in white with the butterfly nets come to get you, put a straight jacket on you and a padded room. After a while you might be alowed to play checkers with the other patients. That's no life for you guys, so please at least try to be rational. I have some things that I have to take care of, but I'll be back. I really hope you'll be O.K. when I'm able to visit again.

Yes...and that's not all....it has been
reported from reliable sources (e.g. Air
America) that Haliburton uncovered some
secret religious artifacts in Iraq and
quickly delivered them to d**k Cheney.
Cheney, Karl Rove and John Ashcroft
were observed in numerous churches on
the Sunday before the election (that
was Halloween) holding these strange
glimmering crystal-like objects and
chanting over and over to the mesmerized
Evangelical Christians "Vote for Bush"...
"Vote for Bush"....."Vote for Bush!"

Lo and behold, on election day, all of
the Evangelical Christians showed up at
the polls en masse and actually voted for
Bush.

It is now rumoured that a congressional
inquiry will be convened with Michael
Moore serving as committee chairman to
investigate these nefarious activities
by the rascally Republicans. And there
lies the real reason behind Ashcroft's
sudden resignation.

Really folks...you left wing lunatics need
to get a grip on reality. The election
is over and Bush won..end of story.

Better luck next time.

All this voting-machine fraud does not surprise me. The whole d**n country is rigged for fraud. The ballot boxes used to have to be stuffed by hand, limiting the effects. Now it just takes a tweak of the software from companies with vested interests.

Surprise announcements this week (and today is only Tuesday):

Yesterday:

Iran supporting al-Qaida terror

U.S. military, intelligence services now certain Tehran backing Iraq Islamists tied to bin Laden
--World Net Daily

(Just like US intel was certain that Iraq had WMD?)

AND

Today: Ashcroft, Evans resign from Cabinet
Attorney general, commerce secretary 1st to step down since election
--MSNBC

(Why? We will never know as the public excuses will be the usual; time with family, for the betterment of the country, a health issue or two.)

The storm clouds are gathering and things just ain't right these days in the good old US of A.

I predict a mass screwing of all American consumers in every way imaginable and a possible invasion of Iran and/or Syria.

A possible citizens revolt in America, to be quickly followed by a global conflagration.

The signs are all there and have been for a time. God help us all; we are going to need it.

Evidence Mounts That The Vote May Have Been Hacked

by Thom Hartmann / Common Dreams

When I spoke with Jeff Fisher this morning (Saturday, November 06, 2004), the Democratic candidate for the U.S. House of Representatives from Florida's 16th District said he was waiting for the FBI to show up.

Fisher has evidence, he says, not only that the Florida election was hacked, but of who hacked it and how. And not just this year, he said, but that these same people had previously hacked the Democratic primary race in 2002 so that Jeb Bush would not have to run against Janet Reno, who presented a real threat to Jeb, but instead against Bill McBride, who Jeb beat.

"It was practice for a national effort," Fisher told me.

And evidence is accumulating that the national effort happened on November 2, 2004.

The State of Florida, for example, publishes a county-by-county record of votes cast and people registered to vote by party affiliation. Net denizen Kathy Dopp compiled the official state information into a table, available at http://ustogether.org/Florida_Election.htm, and noticed something startling.

While the heavily scrutinized touch-screen voting machines seemed to produce results in which the registered Democrat/Republican ratios matched the Kerry/Bush vote, and so did the optically-scanned paper ballots in the larger counties, in Florida's smaller counties the results from the optically scanned paper ballots - fed into a central tabulator PC and thus vulnerable to hacking - seem to have been reversed.

In Baker County, for example, with 12,887 registered voters, 69.3% of them Democrats and 24.3% of them Republicans, the vote was only 2,180 for Kerry and
7,738 for Bush, the opposite of what is seen everywhere else in the country where registered Democrats largely voted for Kerry.

In Dixie County, with 4,988 registered voters, 77.5% of them Democrats and a mere 15% registered as Republicans, only 1,959 people voted for Kerry, but
4,433 voted for Bush.

The pattern repeats over and over again - but only in the smaller counties where, it was probably assumed, the small voter numbers wouldn't be much noticed.
Franklin County, 77.3% registered Democrats, went 58.5% for Bush. Holmes County, 72.7% registered Democrats, went 77.25% for Bush.

Yet in the larger counties, where such anomalies would be more obvious to the news media, high percentages of registered Democrats equaled high percentages of votes for Kerry.

More visual analysis of the results can be seen at http://ustogether.org/election04/FloridaDataStats.htm,
and www.rubberbug.com/temp/Florida2004chart.htm.

And, although elections officials didn't notice these anomalies, in aggregate they were enough to swing Florida from Kerry to Bush. If you simply go through the analysis of these counties and reverse the "anomalous" numbers in those counties that appear to have been hacked, suddenly the Florida election results resemble the Florida exit poll results: Kerry won, and won big.

Those exit poll results have been a problem for reporters ever since Election Day.

Election night, I'd been doing live election coverage for WDEV, one of the radio stations that carries my syndicated show, and, just after midnight, during the 12:20 a.m. Associated Press Radio News feed, I was startled to hear the reporter detail how Karen Hughes had earlier sat George W. Bush down to inform him that he'd lost the election. The exit polls were clear:
Kerry was winning in a landslide. "Bush took the news stoically," noted the AP report.

But then the computers reported something different.
In several pivotal states.

Conservatives see a conspiracy here: They think the exit polls were rigged.

d**k Morris, the infamous political consultant to the first Clinton campaign who became a Republican consultant and Fox News regular, wrote an article for The Hill, the publication read by every political junkie in Washington, DC, in which he made a couple of brilliant points.

"Exit Polls are almost never wrong," Morris wrote.
"They eliminate the two major potential fallacies in survey research by correctly separating actual voters from those who pretend they will cast ballots but never do and by substituting actual observation for guesswork in judging the relative turnout of different parts of the state."

He added: "So, according to ABC-TVs exit polls, for example, Kerry was slated to carry Florida, Ohio, New Mexico, Colorado, Nevada, and Iowa, all of which Bush carried. The only swing state the network had going to Bush was West Virginia, which the president won by 10 points."

Yet a few hours after the exit polls were showing a clear Kerry sweep, as the computerized vote numbers began to come in from the various states the election was called for Bush.

How could this happen?

On the CNBC TV show "Topic A With Tina Brown," several months ago, Howard Dean had filled in for Tina Brown as guest host. His guest was Bev Harris, the Seattle grandmother who started www.blackboxvoting.org from her living room. Bev pointed out that regardless of how votes were tabulated (other than hand counts, only done in odd places like small towns in Vermont), the real "counting" is done by computers. Be they Diebold Opti-Scan machines, which read paper ballots filled in by pencil or ink in the voter's hand, or the scanners that read punch cards, or the machines that simply record a touch of the screen, in all cases the final tally is sent to a "central tabulator" machine.

That central tabulator computer is a Windows-based PC.

"In a voting system," Harris explained to Dean on national television, "you have all the different voting machines at all the different polling places, sometimes, as in a county like mine, there's a thousand polling places in a single county. All those machines feed into the one machine so it can add up all the votes. So, of course, if you were going to do something you shouldn't to a voting machine, would it be more convenient to do it to each of the 4000 machines, or just come in here and deal with all of them at once?"

Dean nodded in rhetorical agreement, and Harris continued. "What surprises people is that the central tabulator is just a PC, like what you and I use. It's just a regular computer."

"So," Dean said, "anybody who can hack into a PC can hack into a central tabulator?"

Harris nodded affirmation, and pointed out how Diebold uses a program called GEMS, which fills the screen of the PC and effectively turns it into the central tabulator system. "This is the official program that the County Supervisor sees," she said, pointing to a PC that was sitting between them loaded with Diebold's software.

Bev then had Dean open the GEMS program to see the results of a test election. They went to the screen titled "Election Summary Report" and waited a moment while the PC "adds up all the votes from all the various precincts," and then saw that in this faux election Howard Dean had 1000 votes, Lex Luthor had 500, and Tiger Woods had none. Dean was winning.

"Of course, you can't tamper with this software,"
Harris noted. Diebold wrote a pretty good program.

But, it's running on a Windows PC.

So Harris had Dean close the Diebold GEMS software, go back to the normal Windows PC desktop, click on the "My Computer" icon, choose "Local Disk C:," open the folder titled GEMS, and open the sub-folder "LocalDB"
which, Harris noted, "stands for local database, that's where they keep the votes." Harris then had Dean double-click on a file in that folder titled "Central Tabulator Votes," which caused the PC to open the vote count in a database program like Excel.

In the "Sum of the Candidates" row of numbers, she found that in one precinct Dean had received 800 votes and Lex Luthor had gotten 400.

"Let's just flip those," Harris said, as Dean cut and pasted the numbers from one cell into the other.
"And," she added magnanimously, "let's give 100 votes to Tiger."

They closed the database, went back into the official GEMS software "the legitimate way, you're the county supervisor and you're checking on the progress of your election."

As the screen displayed the official voter tabulation, Harris said, "And you can see now that Howard Dean has only 500 votes, Lex Luthor has 900, and Tiger Woods has 100." Dean, the winner, was now the loser.

Harris sat up a bit straighter, smiled, and said, "We just edited an election, and it took us 90 seconds."

On live national television. (You can see the clip on
www.votergate.tv)

Which brings us back to Morris and those pesky exit polls that had Karen Hughes telling George W. Bush that he'd lost the election in a landslide.

Morris's conspiracy theory is that the exit polls "were sabotage" to cause people in the western states to not bother voting for Bush, since the networks would call the election based on the exit polls for Kerry. But the networks didn't do that, and had never intended to. It makes far more sense that the exit polls were right - they weren't done on Diebold PCs - and that the vote itself was hacked.

And not only for the presidential candidate - Jeff Fisher thinks this hit him and pretty much every other Democratic candidate for national office in the most-hacked swing states.

So far, the only national "mainstream" media to come close to this story was Keith Olbermann on his show Friday night, November 5th, when he noted that it was curious that all the voting machine irregularities so far uncovered seem to favor Bush. In the meantime, the Washington Post and other media are now going through single-bullet-theory-like contortions to explain how the exit polls had failed.

But I agree with Fox's d**k Morris on this one, at least in large part. Wrapping up his story for The Hill, Morris wrote in his final paragraph, "This was no mere mistake. Exit polls cannot be as wrong across the board as they were on election night. I suspect foul play."

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FBI needs to keep checking other states if Bush does not put a stop to investigation. Seek and you shall find.