ds-max, dsmax, ds/max, granton marketing, cydcor ripoff abused & mistreated cheated employees and screwed the customers even more corruption the business that doesn't give a dam www.ds-max.com Internet *EDitor's Comment

I have to rebute your defense here Zephyr.  To start you say 1 out of 100 get true success, it's more like 1 out of 1000 to 2000 and that is probably lowballing it.  It's not called a cult because of the long hours you work, it's a cult because of the way they brainwash you into seeing past the obvious.  The job itself is absolutely miserable and you will not make money working there, however by making your guys come out and hang out all the time gives them a feeling of guilt when they feel they should leave.  Most owners try to tell their guys that the people around them outside the office are bad influences and you shouldn't surround yourself with negativity.  While that may be true in theory, chances are these negative influences are already more successful than the owner ever will be.  I still have yet to see a company that is successful have mandatory team nights for it's employees. Sure as an owner of a company or a person trying to build a company you want to be generous to your employees and give a great atmosphere, but if somebody can't go, you shouldn't force them and this happens over and over again in DS Max related companies.  Maybe the phrase it IS a cult is not entirely accurate, but the phrase it has many cult-like tendacies is 100% accurate. 

Not to offend you but chances are you really didn't clear 100K during your time as a DS Max owner, I would say it was 50 or 60 and that is definitely considered successful by DS Max standards.

Finally, I noticed you mentioned a jumpstart with capital and a product to start a business.  Now you are correct that they will supply the product, however they will also expect in return you to listen to everything your promoting owner and Org VP tell you to do, therefore in reality you don't own your own company cause you still have a boss.  I know that every business owner I met outside of the DS-Max companies chose where they wanted to open their business, in this one, the VP's will tell you where you are going.  As for the capital, they do not give you any capital.  You earn this money as you walk door to door peddling the products.  Just because they don't pay it to you as an assistant manager and just hold it on the side for you isn't a jumpstart. 

To answer your question as to how they function nowadays, it's basically the same.  They put misleading advertisements up on job posting websites and when the administrator contacts you they try to avoid any questions about what they do and how the employee gets paid.  They hope to get as many people in that find out the deal on the second interview when they follow a poor sould peddling around in the field.  Everytime they open an office they shut one down and 80% of the owners of offices make less than 35K a year, and once again, 80% is probably lowballing it.

I am an ex owner of an Inovage (DSMAX) francise and I have to say that this biz gives back what you put into it. If you are just looking to collect a paycheck then its most likely not for you. However if you have The mind for buisness and need a jumpstart with capital and a product then its worth a shot. I will admit that I made crap for money for about two years, however the following four years I cleared 6 figs per year! I did quit due to the fact that life was consumed by the buisness and I just didnt want it anymore. Its not a CULT! Thats ridiculous. It is different than anything else I had ever done before but I made a ton of money and the sales training and know how has made me the successful man I am today. I still use many techniques today that I learned from being involved. I am interested to know how they operate today with the internet as big as it is? Long story short...If you are new to this biz, just be honest with yourself. I would guess 1 out of a hundred people get true success out of it but thats on you, not the company. the program is their for everyone to take advantage of. Its not an overnight process. Good luck!

I am an ex owner of an Inovage (DSMAX) francise and I have to say that this biz gives back what you put into it. If you are just looking to collect a paycheck then its most likely not for you. However if you have The mind for buisness and need a jumpstart with capital and a product then its worth a shot. I will admit that I made crap for money for about two years, however the following four years I cleared 6 figs per year! I did quit due to the fact that life was consumed by the buisness and I just didnt want it anymore. Its not a CULT! Thats ridiculous. It is different than anything else I had ever done before but I made a ton of money and the sales training and know how has made me the successful man I am today. I still use many techniques today that I learned from being involved. I am interested to know how they operate today with the internet as big as it is? Long story short...If you are new to this biz, just be honest with yourself. I would guess 1 out of a hundred people get true success out of it but thats on you, not the company. the program is their for everyone to take advantage of. Its not an overnight process. Good luck!

I am a former distributor of Innovage in Phoenix. I am very much opposed to companies like these and just wanted to make a few key arguments.

1) I can only dispute the claim of "15000" owners and offices. This sounds so ridiculous to me and it would take tremendous evidence for me to believe such a claim. Someone who believes this please provide evidence of 15000 owners with SUSTAINED success, not of the "one and done" variety.

2) To the idea of "work ethic, committment" and all that jazz. I believe this to be 90% nonsense. Success in Innovage has more to do with how you look in a suit than your sales or team-building. These guys are obsessed with putting forth images of being successful, professional businessmen and women. Put forth an image that they like and you have a chance at management, regardless of your numbers. Or if you're female, start sleeping with the owner (this is not a joke). One of the managers/owners at my office was from a place in California. Speaking with some people that were in the field with him, they said he was garbage at sales and a complete stiff in the field. But since he was a college graduate who could present himself well he was promoted. At the same time, there was a cadre of guys who could rock at DTV that had no prayer at management and they knew it. Buy wholesale into the program and look the part and you will go far.

3) In reality, many "owners" are awful business professionals that can barely balance a checkbook, let alone manage a large business. Our office was a POS warehouse in a crappy part of town. These guys are like the guys who drive a lexus and wear suits to look successful even while they make $30,000 a year, all flash and no substance. Most of these guys are not making jack in terms of real cash.

I have to support nearly all of the negative claims posted here. It is simply a huge waste of time. Please do yourself a favor and stay clear.

My Ds-Max experience was like many others reported here. I worked for them over a year, except I was actually pretty successful, by Ds-max standards I would say. Had leaders under me and I was almost promoted out, except my owner screwed things up, lied and the office went under. When I started there it was summer, and I was in between my freshman and sophomore year in college. Thanks to their sound advice, I dropped out and tried my hand at door to door sales. Do I think it was a mistake, YES, would I encourage others to do so, NO! I don't blame it ALL on Ds-max, hell I was a naive 21 year old kid. You live and you learn, but I do not like the business practices they implore towards their employees. After leaving the company I enrolled back in college, got my degree and have since been very successful as a mechanical engineer. I have also gone back to college and I am less than a year from getting my Masters degree in Engineering. My point is.. Ds-Max is a good opportunity for those less fortunate that are not able to attend college or further their education past a High School level. For those hard workers who are educated or have the means to go to college and get a real job, get your degree. I enjoy having weekends and week nights to myself. I make far more money than the average person, and I have a degree, soon to be 2, to back me up incase something happens. Education is the key to success in life, why wouldn't you want to learn more and reap the benefits of success without having to kill yourself to get there? But for all those people still out there pushing their merchandise, I feel for you. And if I ever see you, I will gladly offer some sound advice!

i worked for ds max years ago for 3 months. i was/am pretty good at sales and actually made some good loot and was 'promoted' within 2 months. i did my due diligence about what we were selling (coupons for local restaurants and golf courses) and made sure they were legit, which they were. but the place is a cult and it can be drain you checking account fast. i saved money by not going to those 'conferences' and after one road trip i stopped.

the place is real shady and i was sent in some very, lets say, "urban" areas...with pockets full of cash.

i am a minority and was accosted by KKK members and by skin heads, looking back i am lucky to be alive, i was able to talk my way out of each situation.

plus they drop you off in the middle of nowhere and this was pre cell phone days. i once crapped my pants in the field,i was wearing a suit!. ha ha. no joke, sucked at the time but now its funny. that experience shows how the human spirit can adapt and overcome anything. stranded in the middle of nowhere, 90 degree heat, wearing a suit, without a phone with a fresh load in your pants. it was wild.

i was in inception for a while and had money in my pocket otherwise i would have walked way sooner, i finally snapped out of it and left. i saw alot of people lose alot. i ran into a guy i worked with a while ago and he lost thousands.

they prey on people and sell the dream, a classic MLM technique. Those who are pitching are victims too...they are convinced people who lose and quit are not motivated. so they dont feel guilty.

companies do have corporate philosophies and cultures including sayings and chants etc but ds max takes it to the next level and makes it the norm instead of the foundation.

its a real crappy job and the odds of making it are very slim. stay away if your lookin for a job.

10 years ago I was a struggling teen looking for opportunities to make money for my future. I had a job as a clerk with a minimum wage. I used to ask myself how on earth was I ever going to be able to buy the nice car, afford a house, get married, have kids...you know - the normal things in life, without having a bank loan. I was looking around for ways of how to make some decent money and have an opportunity to get ahead. Then out of the blue I met a guy who was just as hungry for success as me - Adam. He knew of the DS Max system being run in Poland and he had a few contacts there, so when he started taking about making some serious cash I was all ears!

Next thing I knew, we were on a plane to Warsaw, Poland and started of in a DS Max office. The idea was to get the training there and move to Malta with the whole system and get rich.
The language barrier made it very difficult for me to learn the direct sales way, and I know for fact that when managers met me they used to think what a looser I am. I was in a foreign country, had no money and couldn't understand a word they were saying - can you blame them! But I am a determined person and never give up. So I pushed along and made things happen. Adam and I spent 3 months in Warsaw learning about the DS Max system, and then 1 month in the UK to get a bit more experience.

Chris and Richard were the owners of DS Max in Poland at the time and after the 4 months training they took a huge risk on Adam and me. We went back to Malta and waited for our first container of merchandise.

To cut a long story short, its been 10 years now since I was in Poland doing my training and I thank the Lord everyday for giving me this opportunity. Even though I am not actively in DS Max anymore (would be more than happy to get back in), I still run my company with the exact same system - the 5 steps, the 8 steps, observation days, motivation and the whole lot. My company is very successful and I have all the freedom and finances that I always wanted (and more).

I read so many reports of hatred towards DS Max, but I have never had to say a bad word about anyone. I even had the pleasure of having dinner with Larry when I was over in Hong Kong once. He is a great man.

As for Chris, Richard and Harry, they are the best. We have had some good times and bad times, but most important is that we learnt from our mistakes and came out winners.

At first so many people had no faith in me. My parents, friends and even some DS Max managers, but I can proudly say that I have proved everybody wrong.

In ten years of running Direct Sales in Malta, my company has sold over 4 million clearance products, 150,000 discount cards and over 400,000 books. If you calculate this by the population of Malta, thats a hell lot of products per person.

I have made some changes to the system and made it Maltese friendly, and 90% of my team has been working in the company for over 2 years now. They make great money and have fun.
I want to thank people like Chris, Richard, Harry and the great Larry Tenebaum for the wonderful opportunity that they gave to me and that I continue to give to others. I promise these people a free holiday to sunny Malta whenever they want!!

Most people who read this have never been to Malta or have never even heard of it!! Well all i can say is that direct sales came to us through the DS Max system and it works in any size of country!!
JUICE!!!

I am a current associate at a Florida branch (under the parent company SmartCircle). While I haven't seen any reference to SmartCircle in this thread, i have no doubt it's the same company as it all sounds like what I am dealing with. I am new, so in no way am I claiming that I know the intentions or any inside pracices

Here are some comments from my experiences:

There are good owners and bad owners. My owner seems like a good one (and I have heard employees talking about other owners which are terrible).

I don't feel I was lied to. I was told I would be going business to business sales. My owner in my first interview made sure to ask me if I was comfortable going office to office on the street.

I was never promised anything. I was never promised to be a millionaire, nor was I told I would probably become one, or that I would definitely be an owner. My owner said his goal was to be a millionaire by the age of 35, but he at no time say he made XXX money per year, or imply he was rich (I do not know his fincial situation, how/where he lives or what car he drives). I was simply told that this was an OPPORTUNITY, and one that you don't get with most companies as quickly (which I agree with).

Compensation was not told to me at the initial interview. I did not ask (because the ad said 30-40k per year). I feel the ad was a bit misleading (as NOTHING is guaranteed, it should have been more like 0-40k), but the 30k-40k is not unattainable. At no time was I lied to about compensation.

I get paid cash daily. In fact, I only give them back the money from the sales minus my cut (meaning that I don't hand in all the cash, then later receive my cutback; I have my cut in my hand the instant I make the sale).

To the person who said they made $450 over the course of the 1.5 months they worked: no offense, but you were terrible at the job. I have made $100 and $120 the two days I have been out on my own. At $10 a pop, you sold 45 pieces in as many days? One sale a day is TERRIBLE. I do admit the first week pay sucks (since you be with someone else and splitting the profits).

I am not sure what campains others are talking about, but all the ones I have worked on or know of are very good deals. 50% off high end restaurants, cheap oil changes, entertainment books with good deals (mostly 50% off) at places people actually go to, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I am not here guns blazing defending the company. I am simply stating the experiences I have had. The company may or may not be malicious; I don't have enough experience to know. I don't think it's a scam, but I do think it is an opportunity that I have no doubt is exaggerated by a lot of owners (even if I did not experience that exaggeration). Of course, there are also the possibilities that I have a unusually good owner where most are shady, or perhaps I just don't see the "true side" of things yet. I hate to use the apparant slogan (by reading this thread, but have never heard it used in my company) "It's not for everyone", but that's the way I feel about it.

It sounds like the company is looking for dirt cheap labor (dirt cheap for them doesn't necissarily mean poor money for you). While it may be wrong, they are far from the only company to do it. How many companies outsource their labor to sweatshops who pay their employees pennies per day?

I think I came across too positive in this thread (maybe due to the excessive negative from most others). It's not a glamorous job; you are a glorified door to door salesman (we are strictly prohibited from going residential; I don't know if that is from my owner, or if other owners just ignore that rule. The potential is there, but you are in no way on the fast track to being a millionaire. I obviously have my concerns about the company or else I wouldn't have found this thread, but I have not had any horror experiences. Again, to be fair, I am still new. I'm going to give it a shot for a few weeks, see if I'm still making decent money, and if not, I'm out. Also, as someone else mentioned, you can work the field and look for jobs (and even go on interviews).

I hope this helps someone make an informed decision. It is PURE BUSINESS TO BUSINESS/DOOR TO DOOR SALES. All your money will come from MAKING SALES. The hours are pretty long (again, no experiences with 70+ hour work weeks people are reporting). It is a very positive and upbeat atmospher. I don't feel like it's cultlike, eve if I do think some of the activies and "juice" is cheezy. If this fits you are your skill set, perhaps you could give it a try (don't expect miracles). If not, STAY AWAY!

I am a current associate at a Florida branch (under the parent company SmartCircle). While I haven't seen any reference to SmartCircle in this thread, i have no doubt it's the same company as it all sounds like what I am dealing with. I am new, so in no way am I claiming that I know the intentions or any inside pracices

Here are some comments from my experiences:

There are good owners and bad owners. My owner seems like a good one (and I have heard employees talking about other owners which are terrible).

I don't feel I was lied to. I was told I would be going business to business sales. My owner in my first interview made sure to ask me if I was comfortable going office to office on the street.

I was never promised anything. I was never promised to be a millionaire, nor was I told I would probably become one, or that I would definitely be an owner. My owner said his goal was to be a millionaire by the age of 35, but he at no time say he made XXX money per year, or imply he was rich (I do not know his fincial situation, how/where he lives or what car he drives). I was simply told that this was an OPPORTUNITY, and one that you don't get with most companies as quickly (which I agree with).

Compensation was not told to me at the initial interview. I did not ask (because the ad said 30-40k per year). I feel the ad was a bit misleading (as NOTHING is guaranteed, it should have been more like 0-40k), but the 30k-40k is not unattainable. At no time was I lied to about compensation.

I get paid cash daily. In fact, I only give them back the money from the sales minus my cut (meaning that I don't hand in all the cash, then later receive my cutback; I have my cut in my hand the instant I make the sale).

To the person who said they made $450 over the course of the 1.5 months they worked: no offense, but you were terrible at the job. I have made $100 and $120 the two days I have been out on my own. At $10 a pop, you sold 45 pieces in as many days? One sale a day is TERRIBLE. I do admit the first week pay sucks (since you be with someone else and splitting the profits).

I am not sure what campains others are talking about, but all the ones I have worked on or know of are very good deals. 50% off high end restaurants, cheap oil changes, entertainment books with good deals (mostly 50% off) at places people actually go to, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I am not here guns blazing defending the company. I am simply stating the experiences I have had. The company may or may not be malicious; I don't have enough experience to know. I don't think it's a scam, but I do think it is an opportunity that I have no doubt is exaggerated by a lot of owners (even if I did not experience that exaggeration). Of course, there are also the possibilities that I have a unusually good owner where most are shady, or perhaps I just don't see the "true side" of things yet. I hate to use the apparant slogan (by reading this thread, but have never heard it used in my company) "It's not for everyone", but that's the way I feel about it.

It sounds like the company is looking for dirt cheap labor (dirt cheap for them doesn't necissarily mean poor money for you). While it may be wrong, they are far from the only company to do it. How many companies outsource their labor to sweatshops who pay their employees pennies per day?

I think I came across too positive in this thread (maybe due to the excessive negative from most others). It's not a glamorous job; you are a glorified door to door salesman (we are strictly prohibited from going residential; I don't know if that is from my owner, or if other owners just ignore that rule. The potential is there, but you are in no way on the fast track to being a millionaire. I obviously have my concerns about the company or else I wouldn't have found this thread, but I have not had any horror experiences. Again, to be fair, I am still new. I'm going to give it a shot for a few weeks, see if I'm still making decent money, and if not, I'm out. Also, as someone else mentioned, you can work the field and look for jobs (and even go on interviews).

I hope this helps someone make an informed decision. It is PURE BUSINESS TO BUSINESS/DOOR TO DOOR SALES. All your money will come from MAKING SALES. The hours are pretty long (again, no experiences with 70+ hour work weeks people are reporting). It is a very positive and upbeat atmospher. I don't feel like it's cultlike, eve if I do think some of the activies and "juice" is cheezy. If this fits you are your skill set, perhaps you could give it a try (don't expect miracles). If not, STAY AWAY!

I am a current associate at a Florida branch (under the parent company SmartCircle). While I haven't seen any reference to SmartCircle in this thread, i have no doubt it's the same company as it all sounds like what I am dealing with. I am new, so in no way am I claiming that I know the intentions or any inside pracices

Here are some comments from my experiences:

There are good owners and bad owners. My owner seems like a good one (and I have heard employees talking about other owners which are terrible).

I don't feel I was lied to. I was told I would be going business to business sales. My owner in my first interview made sure to ask me if I was comfortable going office to office on the street.

I was never promised anything. I was never promised to be a millionaire, nor was I told I would probably become one, or that I would definitely be an owner. My owner said his goal was to be a millionaire by the age of 35, but he at no time say he made XXX money per year, or imply he was rich (I do not know his fincial situation, how/where he lives or what car he drives). I was simply told that this was an OPPORTUNITY, and one that you don't get with most companies as quickly (which I agree with).

Compensation was not told to me at the initial interview. I did not ask (because the ad said 30-40k per year). I feel the ad was a bit misleading (as NOTHING is guaranteed, it should have been more like 0-40k), but the 30k-40k is not unattainable. At no time was I lied to about compensation.

I get paid cash daily. In fact, I only give them back the money from the sales minus my cut (meaning that I don't hand in all the cash, then later receive my cutback; I have my cut in my hand the instant I make the sale).

To the person who said they made $450 over the course of the 1.5 months they worked: no offense, but you were terrible at the job. I have made $100 and $120 the two days I have been out on my own. At $10 a pop, you sold 45 pieces in as many days? One sale a day is TERRIBLE. I do admit the first week pay sucks (since you be with someone else and splitting the profits).

I am not sure what campains others are talking about, but all the ones I have worked on or know of are very good deals. 50% off high end restaurants, cheap oil changes, entertainment books with good deals (mostly 50% off) at places people actually go to, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I am not here guns blazing defending the company. I am simply stating the experiences I have had. The company may or may not be malicious; I don't have enough experience to know. I don't think it's a scam, but I do think it is an opportunity that I have no doubt is exaggerated by a lot of owners (even if I did not experience that exaggeration). Of course, there are also the possibilities that I have a unusually good owner where most are shady, or perhaps I just don't see the "true side" of things yet. I hate to use the apparant slogan (by reading this thread, but have never heard it used in my company) "It's not for everyone", but that's the way I feel about it.

It sounds like the company is looking for dirt cheap labor (dirt cheap for them doesn't necissarily mean poor money for you). While it may be wrong, they are far from the only company to do it. How many companies outsource their labor to sweatshops who pay their employees pennies per day?

I think I came across too positive in this thread (maybe due to the excessive negative from most others). It's not a glamorous job; you are a glorified door to door salesman (we are strictly prohibited from going residential; I don't know if that is from my owner, or if other owners just ignore that rule. The potential is there, but you are in no way on the fast track to being a millionaire. I obviously have my concerns about the company or else I wouldn't have found this thread, but I have not had any horror experiences. Again, to be fair, I am still new. I'm going to give it a shot for a few weeks, see if I'm still making decent money, and if not, I'm out. Also, as someone else mentioned, you can work the field and look for jobs (and even go on interviews).

I hope this helps someone make an informed decision. It is PURE BUSINESS TO BUSINESS/DOOR TO DOOR SALES. All your money will come from MAKING SALES. The hours are pretty long (again, no experiences with 70+ hour work weeks people are reporting). It is a very positive and upbeat atmospher. I don't feel like it's cultlike, eve if I do think some of the activies and "juice" is cheezy. If this fits you are your skill set, perhaps you could give it a try (don't expect miracles). If not, STAY AWAY!

I am a current associate at a Florida branch (under the parent company SmartCircle). While I haven't seen any reference to SmartCircle in this thread, i have no doubt it's the same company as it all sounds like what I am dealing with. I am new, so in no way am I claiming that I know the intentions or any inside pracices

Here are some comments from my experiences:

There are good owners and bad owners. My owner seems like a good one (and I have heard employees talking about other owners which are terrible).

I don't feel I was lied to. I was told I would be going business to business sales. My owner in my first interview made sure to ask me if I was comfortable going office to office on the street.

I was never promised anything. I was never promised to be a millionaire, nor was I told I would probably become one, or that I would definitely be an owner. My owner said his goal was to be a millionaire by the age of 35, but he at no time say he made XXX money per year, or imply he was rich (I do not know his fincial situation, how/where he lives or what car he drives). I was simply told that this was an OPPORTUNITY, and one that you don't get with most companies as quickly (which I agree with).

Compensation was not told to me at the initial interview. I did not ask (because the ad said 30-40k per year). I feel the ad was a bit misleading (as NOTHING is guaranteed, it should have been more like 0-40k), but the 30k-40k is not unattainable. At no time was I lied to about compensation.

I get paid cash daily. In fact, I only give them back the money from the sales minus my cut (meaning that I don't hand in all the cash, then later receive my cutback; I have my cut in my hand the instant I make the sale).

To the person who said they made $450 over the course of the 1.5 months they worked: no offense, but you were terrible at the job. I have made $100 and $120 the two days I have been out on my own. At $10 a pop, you sold 45 pieces in as many days? One sale a day is TERRIBLE. I do admit the first week pay sucks (since you be with someone else and splitting the profits).

I am not sure what campains others are talking about, but all the ones I have worked on or know of are very good deals. 50% off high end restaurants, cheap oil changes, entertainment books with good deals (mostly 50% off) at places people actually go to, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I am not here guns blazing defending the company. I am simply stating the experiences I have had. The company may or may not be malicious; I don't have enough experience to know. I don't think it's a scam, but I do think it is an opportunity that I have no doubt is exaggerated by a lot of owners (even if I did not experience that exaggeration). Of course, there are also the possibilities that I have a unusually good owner where most are shady, or perhaps I just don't see the "true side" of things yet. I hate to use the apparant slogan (by reading this thread, but have never heard it used in my company) "It's not for everyone", but that's the way I feel about it.

It sounds like the company is looking for dirt cheap labor (dirt cheap for them doesn't necissarily mean poor money for you). While it may be wrong, they are far from the only company to do it. How many companies outsource their labor to sweatshops who pay their employees pennies per day?

I think I came across too positive in this thread (maybe due to the excessive negative from most others). It's not a glamorous job; you are a glorified door to door salesman (we are strictly prohibited from going residential; I don't know if that is from my owner, or if other owners just ignore that rule. The potential is there, but you are in no way on the fast track to being a millionaire. I obviously have my concerns about the company or else I wouldn't have found this thread, but I have not had any horror experiences. Again, to be fair, I am still new. I'm going to give it a shot for a few weeks, see if I'm still making decent money, and if not, I'm out. Also, as someone else mentioned, you can work the field and look for jobs (and even go on interviews).

I hope this helps someone make an informed decision. It is PURE BUSINESS TO BUSINESS/DOOR TO DOOR SALES. All your money will come from MAKING SALES. The hours are pretty long (again, no experiences with 70+ hour work weeks people are reporting). It is a very positive and upbeat atmospher. I don't feel like it's cultlike, eve if I do think some of the activies and "juice" is cheezy. If this fits you are your skill set, perhaps you could give it a try (don't expect miracles). If not, STAY AWAY!

im not with ds max at all, but i find it funny how negetive some people are and it makes me feel bad for people that get started and see this. the reason it makes me feel bad is that in running any business its tuff. especially direst sales. never blame anybody for your short comings. if it didnt work for you, then leave it at that. let somebody else step in. more people would make it if they didnt see stupid stuff from negetive people. people to scared to follow their owns dreams find ways to discourage others. if you think that these people working with ds max are trying to use people to get more of the pie. sounds kind stupid. what do they benifit from that? any business benifits when somebody does well, and sticks with it, and the person that did the work benefits more than anybody. thanks.

I was in the Granton Denver office for 1 year before leaving to go back to college. Training my team while managing the attitudes of my Day's of O and trying to make a living at the same time was one of the most difficult and worthwhile experiences of my life.

Although I didn't make it to owner, I know that if I had stayed committed, my opportunity would have been realized. Not because Granton guaranteed me a chance to own my own business after a certain amount of time, but because I had the drive to get there.

Although I am no longer in the business, I use the 5 & 8 everyday. I am the Director of Business Development for a Mechanical/Electrical Engineering firm in Denver and owe all of my networking and direct marketing skills to what I learned 6-7 days/week in the field.

My ability to multi-task and handle various projects simultaneously is a result of entertaining and getting to know 3 Day's of O while training 2 1st day guys leap forging across the street and still making my $100 that day.

I poured my life into my job at Granton and the success I had was a result of my own efforts. Two of the nicest and most sincere guys I have ever met in any business were Kevin Seibert and Paul Gudreau. I called Kevin the day I quit and expected him to try an pitch me back in to staying, but instead he wished me the best and pointed out the talents I was taking with me to the my next endevour. Had I not found success in another field, I would probably have returned to Granton to become an owner.

The moral here is thisPeddlers have existed forever and will endure forever. There is no better sales training than face-to-face at the stoop of a door. Granton is by far the classiest of all the operations. I wore a suit and tie to everydoor and treated the neighborhood I was in like it was my home.

The same can't be said for 99% of the direct sales jobs on your neighborhood street. Use it for what it is, a springboard to success whether it be in the business or at your next one.

Thanks Granton!

Matt M.

I also worked at a DS-Max company for a short time and I am willing to say that it is a boatload of BS and lies.

As a recent college graduate I saw one of those adds/scams on Monster or careerbuilder and sent my resume in. I got the usual response in 24 hours via email saying "You resume has been selected as one of our candidates, blah, blah, blah" and I should call and set up an interview. Any legitamate job would not repond via email within 24 hours. A legitamate company would take their time evaluating you for your skills and expertise. When you set up an interview they would also not ask you to come in on the same day, because a legitamate company would want to be just as prepared as you before the interview. Anyway, I went anyway and had the 20 minute or so interview where it was very general. My favorite part was when they invited me in for my "day of o" I told the owner I could come in next monday for the "day of o" because I had interviews the rest of the week (this was Tuesday and I had interviews Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday) and I got the first (of many) completely, blatent lie. The owner told me to cancel one of my interviews because the position could be filled by next Monday. (This is nothing remotely close to the truth because these SCAM companies are constantly bringing people in for the "days of o.")

I actually believed them and did post-pone an interview to come into my "day of o." I got another one of the BS stories when I was pulled in to meet my leader on my "day of o" that he was "a top performer" and "he had taken time out of his busy schedule to show me around." This is total crap because this is what he does everyday so his "oh so" busy schedule was filled up with doing his pathetic pitches and showing me around. Other lies in the interview were that there is health insurance, dental, vision, blah blah. This only happens when you reach "assistant manager" which SHOULD be stated. However, they BS there way though so much, I'm not shocked because they must have "accidently" forgot to tell me this. They also tell you that out of the 5 or so people on the "days of o" only 2 will be offered the job so we had to impress our leader. (This is also total crap because they offer EVERYONE and ANYONE the position).

The "day of o" dragged on where we were in Southern Maryland (right over the Virginia boarder) pitching to strip malls and residential areas in 90 degree weather. The companies whole idea of we promote Fortune 500 companies is crap because all I did was try to sell people coupon booklet with random local restaurants, auto shops, and pizza discounts. They also said how they got money for their gas and milage put on their cars, which is untrue. They just write if off on their taxes. I was asked on my "day of o" to pay for part of the gas for the car and my own lunch, which a legitamate company that was interviewing you would pay for - but then - again no legitamate company would ever make you do an unpaid day of training.

After returning to the office around 9 pm, they give you a "quiz" about marketing and their company. I'm also using the term "marketing" really loosely seeings door to door selling and pushing crappy coupon books on people hardly counts as "marketing." The leader told me he would "give his recommendation" to the owner and see if I was hired. I was brought in and I told them flat out that I would need to think about it and I wanted to talk to my parents. Any legitamate company would be able to wait for a reponse except this company told me this offer was a "take it or leave it" option. It was yes right THEN AND THERE or nothing. Stupidly enough I took it feeling pressure and being manipulated all day by my leader that this was a "once in a lifetime oppurtunity."

The next day I showed up to work and did the same thing as the day before. I peddled around Prince George's county Maryland pitching coupon booklets to strip malls and residential areas in the 90 degree weather. They also had 4 more "victims" on their "day of o" which is when I realized this was total crap. There was NO positon to be filled that I HAD to cancel other interviews for. They are constantly bringing people in to sell their cheap sh*t around. That day I was dropped off in the absolute grossest area in Maryland where a small, single girl should not be walking around selling crap. Again, I had to pay for gas in the car which I will never get reimbursed for. I quit the next day.

These are not legitamate companies. You aren't even an employee. You are an "independent distributor" and have no insurance or anything until you make it to assistant manager. A legitamate company would take time evaluating there employees - not any idiot that can string two sentences together and call it a resume can get an "interview" at these places and go in for a "day of o."

Final thought is BEWARE! These companies have such high turnover that they HAVE to constantly keep bringing people (more like victims) in to keep running. They will constantly lie to you to manipulate you to join them. People that work 9-5 jobs are not losers or stupid. Anyone that works here obviously just took the easy route out to getting a job. Stay away on all accounts!

I know I'm a unique case here but in all honesty I'd have to say these companies have changed my life. I no longer work for either company but still run the same kind of business and I'm 27 years old making more money than any of my friends around my age and way older.. I learned so much from the whole situation that I was able to be totally on my own and become very successful running my own marketing agency. I hate to go into talking about money cause hard to sound humble while talking about how much you make , but needless to say $1500 a day is the average now for me thanks to what I learned at DS Max about sales in general. I do think that it is a very VERY hard business and it takes a certain type of hard core person to be able to do this business but for those that can handle it I think that it can be very very lucrative. The only reason that I left ds max in the first place was cause I learned so much from them that I made my own connection in china and got my own supplier that made it even more lucrative to sell goods on my own, hence that way I keep most of the money off the sales instead of ds max getting the majority of it. I do think their pay structure could be a bit better for their reps but i think there is def a decent opportunity to make money even within their current pay structure IF you bust your a*s in sales. All I know is im very fortunate, most of my friends are working their asses off on the daily 9 to 5 grind and i have a team of 14 agents that work around the clock bringing in around 10 to 15 k per week in gross sales....im living the american dream and i wouldnt be here today if not for DS MAX and thats no BS... i got my knowledge from there, put in a lot of effort, busted my a*s and have been running my own show now for 4 and a half years... anyone can do it but you just cant be lazy and be willing to take the risk of leaving ds max to do it on your own, once you learn their AWESOME SYSTEM... their system makes people rich, it works. Law of averages, 5 steps, 8 steps, JUICE , you know all that jazz... i still use it today with my guys that work for me and it works! sales are good, im in heaven, life is good and 2 homes are paid off .... oh and I just got the new bmw 650 I drop top, my payments 1771 a month.... so for all the negative people on here im coming in from a totally non biased view as i dont work for ds max anymore, i work for myself, but i do believe in their system... learn it, use it, duplicate it on your own, and make a s**t load of money, thats my advice... best wishes.... Irosaike.

Question. How is it possible so many offices (10000+)

I worked 4 years in the company in Holland, spain, england and i was treated well, i dont hold no grudges.

i was always a top 10 salesman, i was not too good in people management.

I learned loads and now i manage a department in a major software company

thanks for teaching me the basics DS Max!!


PS. it is now 4 years ago i left the company, and yes sometimes i miss these dedicated people.

Too all the ones feel ripped off: leave them and think let everyone find out for themselves, because the lesspromotion you make the less people will know about them. and they wont stop anyway.

Learn from your mistakes!! good luck!

Happy 2007 to everyone.

Top ten signs you are involved with Granton Marketing, Cydcor, Innovage, or The Smart Circle:

#10: You've been employed by your company for four months but the parent company has changed it's name three times

# 9: You tell relatives and new acquintances you are working on an 'advertising campaign' but you really sell coupons door-to-door

# 8: You sell a cheaply made good from China for $10 - then give your boss $8.50 of it when you could have imported that same item for $2.75 yourself.

# 7: Your 'mangement training' involves paying co-workers that you'll never see again out of your own pocket - and you're not a manager, or doing any mangement training.

# 6: You look down on '9 to 5 schmucks' that
have secretaries that make more than you and your boss combined.

# 5: You espouse the principles & theories of the most successful people on Earth - who would be repulsed by the business you're in

# 4: You work 75 hours a week but still quietly bum money from your 16 year-old neighbor that works at McDonalds

# 3: You eat at Taco Bell more than 10 times / week

# 2: You live in a one-bedroom apartment with 12 other co-workers . . . and your boss is one of them.

and the number one sign you are involved with Cydcor, Granton, Innovage, The Smart Circle . . .

# 1: You work for a company that has in just 26 years employed 3 million people - and only the original 6 employees are able to support themselves with money they make there.

I recently(previous 2 days) went on interviews with Fortune 5 Marketing here in Jacksonville, FL. Naturally I landed the job, ofcourse I did I've landed all but 1 job I've ever interviewed for. So ofcourse I thought just another day for me. That is until I started talking to my roomate who immediately smelled something fishy (thank you Jake).

Thanks to my roomate I managed to find this thread and multiple others on multiple websites in regards to this and other cydcor companies. Through reading what has been posted I noticed a pattern develop rather quickly and saw that it was used in my "interview" as well.

Luckily for me I heard one customer exclaim that his bill had infact gone up (it was supposed to stay the same) as a result of him having fallen for the Bellsouth scam on a prior date with another rep. Thankfully I managed to piece things together (thanks again Jake) and find these testimonials.

If it wasn't for sites like this I'd be out somewhere withe this sham company today wasting my time and money. It's a shame so many fall for this, as it seems so legitimate until you take time to sit down and think about what you have just seen and heard.

Jonathan
Jacksonville, FL

I recently(previous 2 days) went on interviews with Fortune 5 Marketing here in Jacksonville, FL. Naturally I landed the job, ofcourse I did I've landed all but 1 job I've ever interviewed for. So ofcourse I thought just another day for me. That is until I started talking to my roomate who immediately smelled something fishy (thank you Jake).

Thanks to my roomate I managed to find this thread and multiple others on multiple websites in regards to this and other cydcor companies. Through reading what has been posted I noticed a pattern develop rather quickly and saw that it was used in my "interview" as well.

Luckily for me I heard one customer exclaim that his bill had infact gone up (it was supposed to stay the same) as a result of him having fallen for the Bellsouth scam on a prior date with another rep. Thankfully I managed to piece things together (thanks again Jake) and find these testimonials.

If it wasn't for sites like this I'd be out somewhere withe this sham company today wasting my time and money. It's a shame so many fall for this, as it seems so legitimate until you take time to sit down and think about what you have just seen and heard.

Jonathan
Jacksonville, FL

I recently(previous 2 days) went on interviews with Fortune 5 Marketing here in Jacksonville, FL. Naturally I landed the job, ofcourse I did I've landed all but 1 job I've ever interviewed for. So ofcourse I thought just another day for me. That is until I started talking to my roomate who immediately smelled something fishy (thank you Jake).

Thanks to my roomate I managed to find this thread and multiple others on multiple websites in regards to this and other cydcor companies. Through reading what has been posted I noticed a pattern develop rather quickly and saw that it was used in my "interview" as well.

Luckily for me I heard one customer exclaim that his bill had infact gone up (it was supposed to stay the same) as a result of him having fallen for the Bellsouth scam on a prior date with another rep. Thankfully I managed to piece things together (thanks again Jake) and find these testimonials.

If it wasn't for sites like this I'd be out somewhere withe this sham company today wasting my time and money. It's a shame so many fall for this, as it seems so legitimate until you take time to sit down and think about what you have just seen and heard.

Jonathan
Jacksonville, FL

I don't know if my experience is similar to that of others who had these problems but my owner or whatever you want to call him treated the "Employees" in a scummy manor. Some illustrations of this type of behavior are very similar to what has been describe earlier, other's have not been tackled yet.

1. He claimed that he used to be part of DS-Max but broke off due to what he felt were shady business practices, yet continued to recieve official mail from them for the two years I worked there.

2. Taught all distributors how great the phone service covered in the campaign was, yet refused to use it himself saying that it was a giant pain in the a*s and not at all worthwhile. A direct contrast to what we were taught to rebuttal.

3. At a particularly drunken team night, actually blurted out in what was supposed to be a private conversation (Man, alchohol can kill someone's sense of volume control) that he prefered to hire young people without any children because they can struggle more individually without thinking of others to support.

4. Drove an old beater of a car, that had mismatched paint jobs, no radio and needed to be jumpstarted despite "Making 100,000" a year.

5. Constantly forgot details of certain stories about his success, such as sometimes, he made so much money that his mom never had to work again, while other times she was still working to this day. Sometimes, graduated with a degree from a fairly good school, other times left after his 2nd year because he saw what an oppurtunity it was.

6. Touted roadtrips as a great oppurtunity to teach one's self how to run their own business, then when those involved were departed, stated that they had been sent in an effort to weed them out by having them lose money and neg out.

However, the most disturbing was the treatment of the ex-employees. Where as some people who have shared above stated that those who left were treated as though they were never there, our manager prefered to take the route of bashing those who left and claiming that they had been fired for fraud or theft, when in actuallity they had quit. I know this because my roommate at the time was there and quit because he had been offered a teaching job (his actual aspiration, which he was told he could sharpen his teaching skills as a leader, which of course is BS.) The next day in atmosphere we were told about his departure as a firing due to forging signatures on apps and fradulent promises made to clients.

Also, it is not uncommon for new jobs to call former employers just to confirm the applicant/new hire had actually worked at the job. When these calls were placed to my former employer he lied and said that they had come in for interviews and not been hired, thus they had fabricated whatever work experience they claimed to have recieved. At the time I had assumed this to be hearsay (I broke one of the cardinal rules and maintained friendships after they had departed), but decided to be safe and make a photocopy of my contract and hiring questionaires. I am glad I did so because when I was being considered for my current job, in the social services, they called him just to ensure that I wasn't making up job experience, to which he replied that I had never been hired and certainly did not rise to the "lofty" ranks of team leader. When I was informed of this, I happily produced the contract and hiring information, plus a copy of an organizational chart that he had drawn up to illustrate to some the newer leaders the ups and downs of team leadership.

I don't know if my experience is similar to that of others who had these problems but my owner or whatever you want to call him treated the "Employees" in a scummy manor. Some illustrations of this type of behavior are very similar to what has been describe earlier, other's have not been tackled yet.

1. He claimed that he used to be part of DS-Max but broke off due to what he felt were shady business practices, yet continued to recieve official mail from them for the two years I worked there.

2. Taught all distributors how great the phone service covered in the campaign was, yet refused to use it himself saying that it was a giant pain in the a*s and not at all worthwhile. A direct contrast to what we were taught to rebuttal.

3. At a particularly drunken team night, actually blurted out in what was supposed to be a private conversation (Man, alchohol can kill someone's sense of volume control) that he prefered to hire young people without any children because they can struggle more individually without thinking of others to support.

4. Drove an old beater of a car, that had mismatched paint jobs, no radio and needed to be jumpstarted despite "Making 100,000" a year.

5. Constantly forgot details of certain stories about his success, such as sometimes, he made so much money that his mom never had to work again, while other times she was still working to this day. Sometimes, graduated with a degree from a fairly good school, other times left after his 2nd year because he saw what an oppurtunity it was.

6. Touted roadtrips as a great oppurtunity to teach one's self how to run their own business, then when those involved were departed, stated that they had been sent in an effort to weed them out by having them lose money and neg out.

However, the most disturbing was the treatment of the ex-employees. Where as some people who have shared above stated that those who left were treated as though they were never there, our manager prefered to take the route of bashing those who left and claiming that they had been fired for fraud or theft, when in actuallity they had quit. I know this because my roommate at the time was there and quit because he had been offered a teaching job (his actual aspiration, which he was told he could sharpen his teaching skills as a leader, which of course is BS.) The next day in atmosphere we were told about his departure as a firing due to forging signatures on apps and fradulent promises made to clients.

Also, it is not uncommon for new jobs to call former employers just to confirm the applicant/new hire had actually worked at the job. When these calls were placed to my former employer he lied and said that they had come in for interviews and not been hired, thus they had fabricated whatever work experience they claimed to have recieved. At the time I had assumed this to be hearsay (I broke one of the cardinal rules and maintained friendships after they had departed), but decided to be safe and make a photocopy of my contract and hiring questionaires. I am glad I did so because when I was being considered for my current job, in the social services, they called him just to ensure that I wasn't making up job experience, to which he replied that I had never been hired and certainly did not rise to the "lofty" ranks of team leader. When I was informed of this, I happily produced the contract and hiring information, plus a copy of an organizational chart that he had drawn up to illustrate to some the newer leaders the ups and downs of team leadership.

I don't know if my experience is similar to that of others who had these problems but my owner or whatever you want to call him treated the "Employees" in a scummy manor. Some illustrations of this type of behavior are very similar to what has been describe earlier, other's have not been tackled yet.

1. He claimed that he used to be part of DS-Max but broke off due to what he felt were shady business practices, yet continued to recieve official mail from them for the two years I worked there.

2. Taught all distributors how great the phone service covered in the campaign was, yet refused to use it himself saying that it was a giant pain in the a*s and not at all worthwhile. A direct contrast to what we were taught to rebuttal.

3. At a particularly drunken team night, actually blurted out in what was supposed to be a private conversation (Man, alchohol can kill someone's sense of volume control) that he prefered to hire young people without any children because they can struggle more individually without thinking of others to support.

4. Drove an old beater of a car, that had mismatched paint jobs, no radio and needed to be jumpstarted despite "Making 100,000" a year.

5. Constantly forgot details of certain stories about his success, such as sometimes, he made so much money that his mom never had to work again, while other times she was still working to this day. Sometimes, graduated with a degree from a fairly good school, other times left after his 2nd year because he saw what an oppurtunity it was.

6. Touted roadtrips as a great oppurtunity to teach one's self how to run their own business, then when those involved were departed, stated that they had been sent in an effort to weed them out by having them lose money and neg out.

However, the most disturbing was the treatment of the ex-employees. Where as some people who have shared above stated that those who left were treated as though they were never there, our manager prefered to take the route of bashing those who left and claiming that they had been fired for fraud or theft, when in actuallity they had quit. I know this because my roommate at the time was there and quit because he had been offered a teaching job (his actual aspiration, which he was told he could sharpen his teaching skills as a leader, which of course is BS.) The next day in atmosphere we were told about his departure as a firing due to forging signatures on apps and fradulent promises made to clients.

Also, it is not uncommon for new jobs to call former employers just to confirm the applicant/new hire had actually worked at the job. When these calls were placed to my former employer he lied and said that they had come in for interviews and not been hired, thus they had fabricated whatever work experience they claimed to have recieved. At the time I had assumed this to be hearsay (I broke one of the cardinal rules and maintained friendships after they had departed), but decided to be safe and make a photocopy of my contract and hiring questionaires. I am glad I did so because when I was being considered for my current job, in the social services, they called him just to ensure that I wasn't making up job experience, to which he replied that I had never been hired and certainly did not rise to the "lofty" ranks of team leader. When I was informed of this, I happily produced the contract and hiring information, plus a copy of an organizational chart that he had drawn up to illustrate to some the newer leaders the ups and downs of team leadership.

I don't know if my experience is similar to that of others who had these problems but my owner or whatever you want to call him treated the "Employees" in a scummy manor. Some illustrations of this type of behavior are very similar to what has been describe earlier, other's have not been tackled yet.

1. He claimed that he used to be part of DS-Max but broke off due to what he felt were shady business practices, yet continued to recieve official mail from them for the two years I worked there.

2. Taught all distributors how great the phone service covered in the campaign was, yet refused to use it himself saying that it was a giant pain in the a*s and not at all worthwhile. A direct contrast to what we were taught to rebuttal.

3. At a particularly drunken team night, actually blurted out in what was supposed to be a private conversation (Man, alchohol can kill someone's sense of volume control) that he prefered to hire young people without any children because they can struggle more individually without thinking of others to support.

4. Drove an old beater of a car, that had mismatched paint jobs, no radio and needed to be jumpstarted despite "Making 100,000" a year.

5. Constantly forgot details of certain stories about his success, such as sometimes, he made so much money that his mom never had to work again, while other times she was still working to this day. Sometimes, graduated with a degree from a fairly good school, other times left after his 2nd year because he saw what an oppurtunity it was.

6. Touted roadtrips as a great oppurtunity to teach one's self how to run their own business, then when those involved were departed, stated that they had been sent in an effort to weed them out by having them lose money and neg out.

However, the most disturbing was the treatment of the ex-employees. Where as some people who have shared above stated that those who left were treated as though they were never there, our manager prefered to take the route of bashing those who left and claiming that they had been fired for fraud or theft, when in actuallity they had quit. I know this because my roommate at the time was there and quit because he had been offered a teaching job (his actual aspiration, which he was told he could sharpen his teaching skills as a leader, which of course is BS.) The next day in atmosphere we were told about his departure as a firing due to forging signatures on apps and fradulent promises made to clients.

Also, it is not uncommon for new jobs to call former employers just to confirm the applicant/new hire had actually worked at the job. When these calls were placed to my former employer he lied and said that they had come in for interviews and not been hired, thus they had fabricated whatever work experience they claimed to have recieved. At the time I had assumed this to be hearsay (I broke one of the cardinal rules and maintained friendships after they had departed), but decided to be safe and make a photocopy of my contract and hiring questionaires. I am glad I did so because when I was being considered for my current job, in the social services, they called him just to ensure that I wasn't making up job experience, to which he replied that I had never been hired and certainly did not rise to the "lofty" ranks of team leader. When I was informed of this, I happily produced the contract and hiring information, plus a copy of an organizational chart that he had drawn up to illustrate to some the newer leaders the ups and downs of team leadership.

You say that you started with a marketing firm 4 months ago? It is impossible that on the BellSouth campaign that you have your own office AND an outside deal. Yet later in your post, you say that it took you 5 months to get to ownership. Which is it? I even find 5 months to ownership a little incredible.

You say that you make $4000-$5000 a week. How much of that do YOU see? By that I mean your NET profit? Because, based on my experience with Cydcor, you do not net $4000-5000 a week with only 18 reps AVERAGING $105 a day and only 1 outside deal. Oh wait, let me guess-YOU DETERMINE YOUR SALARY!! Hahahaha, that was the biggest joke I heard there.

It's all a scam and Mr.Ex-Con-Running-His-Own-Office just proved it. Last thing- why is okay for you to rip off business, but you are completely "honest" with your employees?

The above poster just proved what everyone has said. DS MAX is not for everyone, just immoral ex cons who line their own pockets at the expense of the general public.

I Started with a marketing company 4 months ago expecting to sell stuff. I had no experience or schooling. I was in and out of jail and for the most part worked in a resturant my whole life. At first I did not understand the opportuinity I just needed a job after two weeks I was promoted to leadership and had grossed over 1700 dollars after taxs amount to about 1500 dollars.After the first month as a corprate trainer that amount doubled, I made over 1100 dollars a week..ON AVERAGE!!! I also had biult a team of 3 leaders and 2 newbies. i was pushin for my promotion. It is hard work and does take an extreme amount of determination, and yes you do have to shake your morals off because we are raising peoples bills to twice what they were.. but isnt that what sales is we dont force people into buying we just word our "pitch" so that it makes better sense to the consumer and biulds their impulse to buy like an infomercial.. Thats marketing we just push it further than most. I dont feel bad about it one bit. The only regret i have is how much my personal life suffered along the way.. It took me 5 months to open my office on the bellsouth campaign I now run an office of 18 employees with a 105 dollar a day rep average.. i make 4 to 5 thousand a week and another 3 thousand in overides from my outside deal..My wife couldnt be happier she doesnt even work anymore.. Im 25 years old and promoted an owner thats not even old enough to drink hes 20. his office has 12 reps pitching daily. This isnt for everybody. Dont be angry you didnt have what it takes or that you have a conciouse or what ever.. My family lives real good..so oh well. my taxes are perfect every year(THANX TO MELLISSA MY HUB) and we do encourage whiners to quit!!! I LOOK FORWARD TO RETIRE AT 40 A SIENOR NATIONAL CONSULTANT!!!!

I work for the company, and I know it's not for everyone. Anyone who wants to sit around, work a simple 9-5, and slack all the time, is not the type of person that is going to prosper as a distributor for this company, plain and simple. If you have worked for the company for many years and haven't gotten anywhere, maybe it's you.

Getting to ownership doesn't take just being able to sell a match to the devil, it takes being able to teach other people how to do it to. I guarantee, that if you are a leader and have developed your entire team (trained them to be as good as you), you will be promoted.

Also, you may have worked for the company for quite some time, but that doesn't automatically mean that you deserve to be an assistant manager or owner. Have you ever thought that maybe you have a bad attitude? maybe you seem lazy? maybe all your good at is selling, not training others? Maybe your not cut out to run a successful business and no one wanted to invest money in you!

FYI benefits, they ARE offered after a preliminary period. As for using your own car, paying for gas, lunches and numerous other expenses, it is your responsibility to keep track of that, so you can write them off at the end of the year. HELLO, the government isn't just going to let you take home cash every single day with out taxing you! Personally, I do my homework when I start working somewhere. Thats just me I guess.

~Houston

I was the other manager in the Baltimore office and they made her write the retraction. Poor JP didn't want his companies name smeared with all the other companies. Funny thing now he has changed it because every time you post something on here it is the first thing to pop up on Google if you type in that company's name.

Funny how Granton is no longer Granton DS Max is no longer DS Max and other offices have changed there names more than once. They usually say it is because of a move and another company already has that name. Not true...My promoting manager's company was IMG there already is an IMG in Philly so he was Lance Bowling Inc DBA IMG. You can always become a DBA (doing business as) as long as your company s incorporated.

Back to Lindsay, she did take my administrator with her so I was pretty mad when she quit...and yes JP and Mike (even me...sorry) did tell everyone she was let go. We didn't want her to neg out our offices or the road trip. That's what owners do make up LIES so their people will stay. I am glad at least she got out, I wish they didn't scare her into the rebuttal but she never said anything about my office or even Mike's company name Sunrise Marketing Solutions. Oh yeah by the way he failed too.


-Much happier now

I was in the field for 2 years,i worked for office in tampa. I had got the top leader award and at 1 time had 11 people on my team and 7 leaders on my way out..but the only thing was my leader Jamie Phillips was always throwing me under the bus and if i got out the feild before him he would lose over half of team..I was the best in the field nobody was better, i was doing 10 to 15 cards everyday, i would get my volume discount every week...owe yeah and i had to take out his retrains and pay them out cause he was very bad in the field..there were days where i was retraining 3 people and i had to sell 15 cards to break even and there were days i only did 10 well $50.00 would come out of my security some how..needless to say i lost my girlfriend, my car (repoed), my apartment and had to life in the hood to get by lost my whole team 2 times and then finally got a real job and i had to lose everything to realize that you will not make it..so dont do it...my owner lost his office and we had the best office in florida..and he told me the real truth after he lost the office..and how much money he made and that the Mike T VP..Is Back stabbing b*****d and lier...I hope this helps 1 person

This is in no way to address any specific person, but is intended to address several issues that I have come across in my readings about CydCor. So to those of you CydCor cronies out there, I'm just stating my case, and if you feel the complete and utter need to defend your oh so precious career, please know that I don't particularly care about what you all have to say.

I worked for the Rising Star International/ Marketing FX office out of Fairfield, NJ for several months. I have to say that I agree with the majority of the people on here in saying that the whole CydCor scheme is a big joke. Please do not use the fact that I had only been there for a few months as an excuse for my lack of support for CydCor, as I know people who had been there for years, and still quit because it sucked.

They aren't honest in any way whatsoever about their dealings... and it's not only the office I was in, as per I met several other people from offices all over the country, and the general consensus was that we were lied to. Not necessarily outright lied to, but the offices affiliated with CydCor have a tendency to lie by omission. When you do in fact ask questions about things that they have so conveniently left out of conversation, they either sugarcoat it, (heavily might I add,) or they blatantly shrug it off without even answering you.

I find it incredibly amusing that those people who are defending CydCor use the same exact defense in asking: "If CydCor was part of such dubious dealings, or a scam, would large corporations attach their names to it?" or something to that effect. The answer is yes. People don't notice that this sham of a company is in fact a worthless un-amusing joke until after they have subjected themselves to the long days of walking miles and miles, only to realize that they haven't made a single sale. Which in turn will cause 1. a reprimand from not only your manager, but your "a*s-man," your "leader" and the rest of your "team" and 2. NO MONETARY COMPENSATION for the hours that you did put in all day trying to sell useless items to busy business owners who frankly, don't want to even know you exist. And these giant companies are only in it for the marketing aspect. Do you think that companies that own sweat shops don't know that they own them? It's the same with CydCor. These places probably don't know what is going on within these independent offices- the lying and cheating of it's employees, but as long as it doesn't bring any negative publicity to their company, they could care less.

Those of you who are "owners" pride yourselves on the severe lack of education that you may or may not have, but as I noticed from reading these entries, 90% of the "owners" that respond to these rebuttals couldn't spell to save their lives, let alone formaulate a complete, coherent sentence. (let me put that in laymen's terms for you: you are too dumb to not fall for the scam.) You walk around with your Holier than thou attitiudes, when in fact, I am currently sitting at a desk, typing this out in a cushy office in NY, NOT walking around for miles and miles letting my spirit be broken by false promises, and probably still have more to show than those of you who "own" your own business. Companies like CydCor thrive on idiots who are willing to spend more money trying to make money than they actually do bring home, with the promise of one day "making it." In reality, only a small percantage do actually make it. Call me weak, or a loser, or whatever you want, but hey- I'm not the a*s who is walking door to door with a twenty pound bag of apps and catalogs come hell or high water, now am I? I'm the one sitting here getting paid to do nothing. It may sound like I'm lazy, but in all honesty, isn't it the American Dream? Don't be jealous.

I'd say that the only GOOD thing that came out of my time working at RSI and MFX are the friendships I made there... I probably met some of the coolest people on the planet, and I also had the luxury (and amazing luck) of meeting my future husband there. Luckily, we all had the sense to quit before that hole that we called a job took not only our money, but our self-respect as well.

I was introduced to the CYDCOR/DS-MAX Ponzi scheme over the past two days. What I would like to do is relate my experience at two particular offices - TMP Marketing Group and MC Marketing, both housed in the EXACT SAME BUILDING in Conshohocken, PA. Like many others, I am a recent college grad looking for work and was taken in by their promise of an "Entry-level marketing position" on websites like monster, hotjobs, and careerbuilder (I've heard that they also promote themselves on craigslist as well). While the job description was vague, the website was almost completely devoid of any substantial information - but it did contain a nice picture of the Philly skyline. I showed up for my first interview at 9:00 am, and heard what sounded like a bunch of maniacs yelling, hand-slapping, and bell-ringing as if their lives depended on it. There were two other candidates waiting to be interviewed, and we filled out a questionnaire that had apparently been constructed by the attractive secretary (her best features were not her computer or photocopying skills). I was treated to a 10-minute interview during which time I learned absolutely nothing of value, got to ask zero questions, and was promptly invited back for a second interview the following day so I could "see how the company works". They wanted to train me for management, after all. The next day is where it really fell apart. Why would ANYONE really need a nine-hour second interview? I guess it was so we could be driven about an hour away from our cars, without any hope of return before the pre-specified time (which the schmuck I was "shadowing" blew off, making me over an hour late for dinner). That last part is only important since I'm a diabetic. Yay, CYDCOR might have killed me. At least I wasn't paid. The highlight of the day was lunch, where I was given the choice of McDonald's, Wendy's, or Burger King. And that's when all of my dreams were realized. OF COURSE you can make $100,000 a year doing this. All you have to do is have find a bunch of other people even dumber than you are. It doesn't matter if YOU believe it (which I'm sure some of the owners do not), but in getting OTHERS to believe in the bs.

During lunch, I asked my "leader" several things, such as whether or not MC Marketing would cover any tuition reimbursement. I sh*t you not, Coke came flying out of his nose. He asked me why the hell I'd want or need to go back to school with a job that paid this well. I said that I enjoyed learning and any concepts that could help me run the the business better would make me more valuable to management. He said that I could do that with my own money, on my own time (yeah, right). Then I asked him what would happen if he was in a car accident - he put over 130 miles on his car in the 9 hours we spent together. His answer was, "Well, you have car insurance, don't you?". So from my simple observations, I was able to determine that he pays for: a) his own gas ($35 three times a week or more), b) his own food (BK for both of us was $12), c) his own cell phone (who knows how much that bill would come to, especially with the calls to Canada constantly), d) the mileage on his car, e) his car insurance. Is everyone deducting these costs from the $400-600 that are reportedly made every week BEFORE TAXES? Since my "leader" didn't make any sales, he actually PAID CYDCOR $47 for the privilege of busting his a*s for eight hours!!! Does this sound like the type of person who will be making $100K a year from now? I asked him how long he had been doing the job and he replied "a month". Thankfully, he had just been promoted from Entry-Level to Leadership. I asked him how much of a pay raise he got for the promotion. Oh. No pay raise. Well, what were the benefits? Increased pressure and responsibility. Now he had to go out and build his own team. Here is a guy who is making 28% commission selling Quill office supplies door-to-door, and he just got promoted into doing more work for the same pay! 100% commission-based, baby! That's how they know that you're management material. It's a "merit-based" progression. You get in at 7:30 am, do some "impacts", juice yourself up, make fun of the stupid cows in their cubicles, and proceed to spend the next nine hours wandering through a ghetto trying to sell toner cartridges and paper. Moo.

I enjoyed filling out the questionnaire at the end of the day. My responses were dead serious, as if I was truly interested in the job, until the end questions (hey, they wasted my time - they were going to have to read my entire rant). The question was along the lines of what I thought of the person who wasted my day. My response was that he was nice, hard-working, enthusiastic, and appropriately brainwashed by their pseudo-corporate propaganda. Those who defend this company don't want to call it a cult or a pyramid scheme...fine. I thought of another analogy. How about a brothel? The manager is the pimp, and the little worker bees are the ones out there prostituting themselves for a sliver of money and the promise of riches. One day you can be your own pimp, farm out your own stable. Just leave your honesty, integrity, self-respect, and wallet at the front door on your way in.

Juice get fired up...wow, I can still remember it like it was yesterday..

I first joined WWI (as it was called back in the early 90's) in Toronto. Promised of office ownership and making millions were the draw. I was young, right out of school, and excited about the future ahead.

I remember going to Larry Tenebaum's house early in my career there for a big party. The guy had several nice autos, a huge house and tons of money. We all had big dreams after that event! I also met Avie Roth back then who was also doing quite well for himself.

I was in the Advertising division, sounded cool but basically we sold "coupon booklets" door to door, in parking lots, wherever we could find people. It was hard work but money was always on the mind and trying to sell enough to build a crew and become an owner was always on the mind. To be honest, the company used a lot of big carrots. Is that wrong, no. Is there a big payoff if you make it, likely. Do they burn through a lot of people and exploit them, well that is a hard one to call really. If there was no opportunities then you could call them on that but some make it and are successful. You can argue, as most who are happy there do, that "rhinos" will make it.

Once a year they held a "convention". The year I went it was at Madison Square gardens in NY. What a show...they had some famous guy talking, gave out 6 figure checks to the big boys and piaget watches and we partied majorly the whole time we were there. Yes we had to pay our own way, but it was pretty cool and really a big motivator.

I also remember Chris Niarchos coming to our office once. He was building the biz in Australia at the time and was doing well. He showed up in a Ferrari (now I see he races them...) and got everyone juiced up. Again, more carrots right or wrong.

I ended up leaving because of the way I saw people being treated and realized although there was opportunity, I would pursue mine elsewhere. I think I stayed there for about a year. We had a company house that I lived in. About 12 of use lived there (all managers) and paid a small amount of rent. It was a little controlling but then again, we didn't pay much to live there.

Today I am a president of a company. I have had a very successful career and am still relatively young. So what do I think looking back 15 years ago when I spent a year of my life working the 5 and 8?

Well, I look back positively. It taught me a lot of things. How to get motivated and stay motivated. How to focus on goals. To not settle for second best and shoot for number one. So I look back on that experience as training really. If I had stayed would I have been successful, probably. I chose a different route but learned a lot.

So to you potential employees I say, think of your time there as training for later pursuits with a slight chance you may make it (kind of like winning the lottery but better oddds as you actually have some control over whether you win).

I also say to you, being in a situation where you are not being treated right is not confined to this company. I am sure some owners are nicer than others. If you are in a bad office, then leave. If you are being treated well and making some money and enjoying yourself, then all the power to you.

Thanks for reading my POV on this. I hope it was helpful.

OK here is my opinion on what DS MAX is as a company. I worked at the Phoenix, Arizona office about six years ago. My first impression was that it was a scam. I still wanted to do it. I am a pretty good salesman and I thought I could make some good money at it (I was just out of highschool). I started right off the bat making $100 - $150 a day. Pretty good money for an 18 year old. I am assuming that this happens to a lot of people. This is when most people start getting used. YOU DON'T HAVE TO LET IT HAPPEN TO YOU! When you turn in your money at night they ask you how much you want to put into savings. I asked them what interest rate they were giving me. C'mon people, you don't give your savings to someone without them paying you interest, they are just using your money to make interest themselves. I just said NO. Secondly, if they sent me out with a new person to train, I would. I would show them what I do and explain to them how the company really worked. The promises of big houses and nice cars. I am sure it can happen but realistically for most it won't. People have said on this thread that not everyone is made to run their own business but the office managers will tell you that you can the whole time no matter if they think you can or cannot. If I trained someone and they liked it and they got hired, the company expected me to give them money the first couple of weeks so they would not leave. Pretty much if they couldn't make money I was supposed to give them the money I made. Again, I said no. I told them to have the guys in the magazine in the Porche's and in front of their mansions pay them. It is in no way your responsibility to pay them. They would tell me that I was their leader and it was my responsibility to make them happy so they stay. If I was their leader, I would be making a percentage of their earnings, not the office manager who told me to give them my money. Another thing people, at least from my experience, any company that has to show its employees pictures of fancy cars and houses to motivate its staff, is not a good company. How many doctors and lawyers get shown magazines of this kind. None. Why? Because it is a credible occupation. Also, they have a history of talking education down. They would say things like school is a rip off because you have to pay for it. Anyone that rips on education is a complete moron. Education is so much more than just money it makes you more intelligent. Thus giving you more opportunities. My education got me a masters degree and a career as a college professor. Don't get me wrong, I made good money while I was peddling but I also was smart enough to not fall into the traps of "THE SCAM". If you don't let this happen you can actually make good money. It is when you give your money to your lazy crew and give it to your manager for "SAVINGS" that you get screwed. Doesn't it give you people a red flag when you try to get your money out of savings and they ask you "WHY?" It is not their business to know why, that is why you save money in a bank not through you peddling company. One last thing, for a while when I was working for wellington wholesale in phoenix, the manager had me doing interviews for the office. The ad in the paper read for a warehouse job. My exact instructions were to simply look at the people and decide if we wanted them to come back. If it was a scruffy looking person, I was told to tell them that we were looking for warehouse positions and we would get back to them. THere was NO warehouse postion. They didn't need one all the employees were made to clean and work the warehouse. My final thought: People, you too can work the system just like DS MAX tries to work you. Go out and make money. Save your own money. Don't give away your own money. Don't build a crew. If a company has to place a FAKE ad for a FAKE job it is probably a scam. Just make your money. I did it right. I made my money paid for school and now have a very comfortable life. Just my two cents. Thanks

OK here is my opinion on what DS MAX is as a company. I worked at the Phoenix, Arizona office about six years ago. My first impression was that it was a scam. I still wanted to do it. I am a pretty good salesman and I thought I could make some good money at it (I was just out of highschool). I started right off the bat making $100 - $150 a day. Pretty good money for an 18 year old. I am assuming that this happens to a lot of people. This is when most people start getting used. YOU DON'T HAVE TO LET IT HAPPEN TO YOU! When you turn in your money at night they ask you how much you want to put into savings. I asked them what interest rate they were giving me. C'mon people, you don't give your savings to someone without them paying you interest, they are just using your money to make interest themselves. I just said NO. Secondly, if they sent me out with a new person to train, I would. I would show them what I do and explain to them how the company really worked. The promises of big houses and nice cars. I am sure it can happen but realistically for most it won't. People have said on this thread that not everyone is made to run their own business but the office managers will tell you that you can the whole time no matter if they think you can or cannot. If I trained someone and they liked it and they got hired, the company expected me to give them money the first couple of weeks so they would not leave. Pretty much if they couldn't make money I was supposed to give them the money I made. Again, I said no. I told them to have the guys in the magazine in the Porche's and in front of their mansions pay them. It is in no way your responsibility to pay them. They would tell me that I was their leader and it was my responsibility to make them happy so they stay. If I was their leader, I would be making a percentage of their earnings, not the office manager who told me to give them my money. Another thing people, at least from my experience, any company that has to show its employees pictures of fancy cars and houses to motivate its staff, is not a good company. How many doctors and lawyers get shown magazines of this kind. None. Why? Because it is a credible occupation. Also, they have a history of talking education down. They would say things like school is a rip off because you have to pay for it. Anyone that rips on education is a complete moron. Education is so much more than just money it makes you more intelligent. Thus giving you more opportunities. My education got me a masters degree and a career as a college professor. Don't get me wrong, I made good money while I was peddling but I also was smart enough to not fall into the traps of "THE SCAM". If you don't let this happen you can actually make good money. It is when you give your money to your lazy crew and give it to your manager for "SAVINGS" that you get screwed. Doesn't it give you people a red flag when you try to get your money out of savings and they ask you "WHY?" It is not their business to know why, that is why you save money in a bank not through you peddling company. One last thing, for a while when I was working for wellington wholesale in phoenix, the manager had me doing interviews for the office. The ad in the paper read for a warehouse job. My exact instructions were to simply look at the people and decide if we wanted them to come back. If it was a scruffy looking person, I was told to tell them that we were looking for warehouse positions and we would get back to them. THere was NO warehouse postion. They didn't need one all the employees were made to clean and work the warehouse. My final thought: People, you too can work the system just like DS MAX tries to work you. Go out and make money. Save your own money. Don't give away your own money. Don't build a crew. If a company has to place a FAKE ad for a FAKE job it is probably a scam. Just make your money. I did it right. I made my money paid for school and now have a very comfortable life. Just my two cents. Thanks

OK here is my opinion on what DS MAX is as a company. I worked at the Phoenix, Arizona office about six years ago. My first impression was that it was a scam. I still wanted to do it. I am a pretty good salesman and I thought I could make some good money at it (I was just out of highschool). I started right off the bat making $100 - $150 a day. Pretty good money for an 18 year old. I am assuming that this happens to a lot of people. This is when most people start getting used. YOU DON'T HAVE TO LET IT HAPPEN TO YOU! When you turn in your money at night they ask you how much you want to put into savings. I asked them what interest rate they were giving me. C'mon people, you don't give your savings to someone without them paying you interest, they are just using your money to make interest themselves. I just said NO. Secondly, if they sent me out with a new person to train, I would. I would show them what I do and explain to them how the company really worked. The promises of big houses and nice cars. I am sure it can happen but realistically for most it won't. People have said on this thread that not everyone is made to run their own business but the office managers will tell you that you can the whole time no matter if they think you can or cannot. If I trained someone and they liked it and they got hired, the company expected me to give them money the first couple of weeks so they would not leave. Pretty much if they couldn't make money I was supposed to give them the money I made. Again, I said no. I told them to have the guys in the magazine in the Porche's and in front of their mansions pay them. It is in no way your responsibility to pay them. They would tell me that I was their leader and it was my responsibility to make them happy so they stay. If I was their leader, I would be making a percentage of their earnings, not the office manager who told me to give them my money. Another thing people, at least from my experience, any company that has to show its employees pictures of fancy cars and houses to motivate its staff, is not a good company. How many doctors and lawyers get shown magazines of this kind. None. Why? Because it is a credible occupation. Also, they have a history of talking education down. They would say things like school is a rip off because you have to pay for it. Anyone that rips on education is a complete moron. Education is so much more than just money it makes you more intelligent. Thus giving you more opportunities. My education got me a masters degree and a career as a college professor. Don't get me wrong, I made good money while I was peddling but I also was smart enough to not fall into the traps of "THE SCAM". If you don't let this happen you can actually make good money. It is when you give your money to your lazy crew and give it to your manager for "SAVINGS" that you get screwed. Doesn't it give you people a red flag when you try to get your money out of savings and they ask you "WHY?" It is not their business to know why, that is why you save money in a bank not through you peddling company. One last thing, for a while when I was working for wellington wholesale in phoenix, the manager had me doing interviews for the office. The ad in the paper read for a warehouse job. My exact instructions were to simply look at the people and decide if we wanted them to come back. If it was a scruffy looking person, I was told to tell them that we were looking for warehouse positions and we would get back to them. THere was NO warehouse postion. They didn't need one all the employees were made to clean and work the warehouse. My final thought: People, you too can work the system just like DS MAX tries to work you. Go out and make money. Save your own money. Don't give away your own money. Don't build a crew. If a company has to place a FAKE ad for a FAKE job it is probably a scam. Just make your money. I did it right. I made my money paid for school and now have a very comfortable life. Just my two cents. Thanks

OK here is my opinion on what DS MAX is as a company. I worked at the Phoenix, Arizona office about six years ago. My first impression was that it was a scam. I still wanted to do it. I am a pretty good salesman and I thought I could make some good money at it (I was just out of highschool). I started right off the bat making $100 - $150 a day. Pretty good money for an 18 year old. I am assuming that this happens to a lot of people. This is when most people start getting used. YOU DON'T HAVE TO LET IT HAPPEN TO YOU! When you turn in your money at night they ask you how much you want to put into savings. I asked them what interest rate they were giving me. C'mon people, you don't give your savings to someone without them paying you interest, they are just using your money to make interest themselves. I just said NO. Secondly, if they sent me out with a new person to train, I would. I would show them what I do and explain to them how the company really worked. The promises of big houses and nice cars. I am sure it can happen but realistically for most it won't. People have said on this thread that not everyone is made to run their own business but the office managers will tell you that you can the whole time no matter if they think you can or cannot. If I trained someone and they liked it and they got hired, the company expected me to give them money the first couple of weeks so they would not leave. Pretty much if they couldn't make money I was supposed to give them the money I made. Again, I said no. I told them to have the guys in the magazine in the Porche's and in front of their mansions pay them. It is in no way your responsibility to pay them. They would tell me that I was their leader and it was my responsibility to make them happy so they stay. If I was their leader, I would be making a percentage of their earnings, not the office manager who told me to give them my money. Another thing people, at least from my experience, any company that has to show its employees pictures of fancy cars and houses to motivate its staff, is not a good company. How many doctors and lawyers get shown magazines of this kind. None. Why? Because it is a credible occupation. Also, they have a history of talking education down. They would say things like school is a rip off because you have to pay for it. Anyone that rips on education is a complete moron. Education is so much more than just money it makes you more intelligent. Thus giving you more opportunities. My education got me a masters degree and a career as a college professor. Don't get me wrong, I made good money while I was peddling but I also was smart enough to not fall into the traps of "THE SCAM". If you don't let this happen you can actually make good money. It is when you give your money to your lazy crew and give it to your manager for "SAVINGS" that you get screwed. Doesn't it give you people a red flag when you try to get your money out of savings and they ask you "WHY?" It is not their business to know why, that is why you save money in a bank not through you peddling company. One last thing, for a while when I was working for wellington wholesale in phoenix, the manager had me doing interviews for the office. The ad in the paper read for a warehouse job. My exact instructions were to simply look at the people and decide if we wanted them to come back. If it was a scruffy looking person, I was told to tell them that we were looking for warehouse positions and we would get back to them. THere was NO warehouse postion. They didn't need one all the employees were made to clean and work the warehouse. My final thought: People, you too can work the system just like DS MAX tries to work you. Go out and make money. Save your own money. Don't give away your own money. Don't build a crew. If a company has to place a FAKE ad for a FAKE job it is probably a scam. Just make your money. I did it right. I made my money paid for school and now have a very comfortable life. Just my two cents. Thanks

Similarities in how DS-MAX owners operate and how cults operate are the reason for the comparison. An examination of tactics include.

1. Subject the "member" to fatigue or stressful conditions.

Like a cult, for DS-MAX owners fatiguing the distributor is important. Generally for most offices leaders and distributers show up at 6:45am. They work in the office until about 9am when they go out into the field to sell door-to-door. They generally sell until 5-6pm then head back to the office. Checkout, atmosphere, settle-up and then the obligatory discussions and teambuilding mean the average distributer leaves around 9-10pm. Go home, eat something go to bed and then another day begins. Distributors work 6 days a week unless they are too poor to pay to eat and for lodging after 6, at which they work 7 days. This kind of unrelenting schedule leads too number 2.

2. Social disruption and isolation.

The distributor will be naturally isolated from friends and family initially just from the grueling work schedule. Later, distributors are pressured to eliminate negative influences and people who aren't sold on the business because they will hold you back. Eventually, many distributors end up living in an office house/apartment where 3-6 fellow distributors live together as this is the only way they can make ends meet.

3. Control of information.

The owner uses many different tools to keep a steady stream of propaganda aimed at the distributor. It starts with the routine in the morning. You enter in, turn on hip upbeat music and everyone starts being positive. With this in the background you instruct your indoctrinies in the finer points of selling, the opportunity, the system, and make a concious effort to bond with those you have just recruited. Information is carefully controled in this setting. If someone is being negative or has objections to what is going on they are isolated and 2-4 leaders will bombard this person with counters to their objection. They will also insure that this person isn't left alone to possibly infect the rest of the group. There is a choriographed meeting where the owner is treated like a rockstar to a captive and approving audience. He gives more of the same propaganda. During the day when new recruits are sent out for their first day, the entire day consists of a distributor "promoting" the business. They return at the end of the day for the final round of propaganda. Any questioning of the system, show of doubt, or indications of disapproval by a distributor are very quickly countered.

4. Escalating commitment.

When you start off as a new distributor, you show up at the office later and leave earlier than distributors who have been there a while. As you progress you must show you are willing to show up earlier and stay later. Eventually you end up living with your crew or with other leaders until you are ready to open an office.

Owners, Regional Managers, VP's, and the founders are treated very much the same as in MLM scams. They are lauded as being super producers who went through the same ordeal you have been through. Now in their vaulted position they are treated like celebrities in the company. Though not exactly like a cult leader, these leaders use similiar tactics.

So for those of you claiming that the comparison between DS-MAX and cults is preposturious. You either don't know anything about the two, or are so caught up in the propganda that you are unwilling to admit the truth of it.

I don't have much to say but I worked for Raff Diaz and can be certain he didn't work for Merrill Lynch. He never told me about that in the time I knew him.

Not suprised he'd do that though. He was probably trying to impress you.

Hello to all that supports all the DS-Max hype. I've read your argument and have understood what you all wanted to say. Yes, you have to be mad when someone says that what you are currently doing is wrong, unlawful, deceptive. That is normal, I would too, or I have done the same a year ago. especially when this site makes you pay for it if you are the one they are complaining about.

BUT, if you don't understand where they are coming from, then I really do not think your comments have any business being posted here. As DS-Max/Cydcor say, "Who cares what everyone thinks. We are the one that's going to make money" I was told from the great Avie Roth himself and also Gary Polson that I indeed will be the one to conquer Japan with Cydcor. Did that happen? What did they say for me to do? Did I accomplish it? and did they have any intention of opening an office in Japan, because as Jim Majeski(Forgive me, I do not know how to spell his name) admitted it wont happen when I told him shotgun sales will not work in Japanese companies.

I respect all the people that I mentioned. BUT I believe that Cydcor itself just attracts shady people. If and IF ONLY these people who are managers had ANY sales skills at all, what in the world are they doing with Cydcor? No, really, WHY? Sessions used to be at Merrill Lynch, or that's what he told me at an interview. Well I deal with Merrill Lynch advisors right now with my work and they told me that they've never heard of him and they did look into the record for me and and he could have been the temp but he was never hired by the ML. I also asked about Raf Diaz because he told me at one of the function that he worked at Merrill. Well they told me that they do not and would never have hired non-college grad as stock manager.

May be I shouldn't use the word DECEPTIVE, beause I might upset certain people, but please remember that I am in "the business" where I deal with wall street. If they are lying about what they did before they joined cydcor, can you reallly believe in what they are doing now? From what I've heard, they switched their answer to "it doesn't matter what I used to do, b/c i'm making all this money doing this!!"
well may be there's nothing to talk about their past b/c there isn't any.

I have not been with the company for about 3 years but I just wanted to get something straight in regards to all of the negative responses of the companies as a whole. I had started with the company about 5 years ago and I know that all of the things are not great but as when dealing with any company or corporation there are up sides and also down sides to everything. When I started there where many other locations and I stared with one in Colorado where there where about 4 ppl. In a new office and new location with a new manager who was just getting his feet wet. With that said we grew to a location powerhouse I like to think with my and the mangers help with a very professional look and feel with real opportunity for the taking. I know that there is a lot of hard work involved but everything pays off in the end I maid it to JR Partner but I did quit due to the love of my life and the new life I was going to start with her and didn't want to move even though I was going to be opening a new office or location what ever term you would like to use in 2 weeks and I still quit and I might a*s in the city that I wanted to be in and I picked. I know that all the hard work that I pit in was paying off everyday and it even made me a better person in the long run with the real world as they say. As of right now I am a regional director of a major company and also I make a great income in sales as the youngest person in the corporations history to become a Regional Director. But I need to thank DSMAX and the managers that made all of this possible for me and my family.

I have found countless sites for ds-max, cydcor, innovage, and granton and I am shocked. Originally from St Louis, I moved to Cape Girardeau for school, met a guy and moved with him to his home town in Kansas City.

I answered a different ad "Toys, toys, toys: have fun, make money, call sara". At the time I had never heard of these types of companies so I was blinded by the ad to grasp the characteristics of the company. I walked in to a company called KC Direct and sitting before me was a woman behind a tattered desk in a small "lobby" answering numerous phone calls, passing out applications to about 9 other applicants. I got through to the day of ob and realized that it was not something that I felt was right for me. Then when I came back to "chat" with the manager at the time he told me that the administator in the lobby would be leaving soon and that I had the "kind of look" that they would seek of an administrator.

I took the job (I really needed one and I got an actual paycheck) Now I didn't really understand what was going on at first but I started to catch on when the "star owner" who hired me left to go fix the potential ruinings of another office. Turns out my actual boss was the original owner of this location, who had done so well that he started gambling and slowly ran it close to the ground. On my first day I thought he was another distributor.

Anyways, I went about my business and I slowly started to enjoy my job. I helped choose the ads in the paper and I also called the poor internet saps who had no idea that this was not a "real Opportuity". My boss' problems started up again and he ended up spending the majority of his time in the field and at the casino while I was forgotten about in the office and never payed overtime or promised bonus' for good retention. For those of you who don't know, Retention is a percentage that is calculated from the amount of people you brought in for an interview out of the people who called and set up an interview.

I started getting restless.There were weeks when he would forget to put an ad in the paper and I would just sit there with nothing to do. Sometimes I would get so bored that I would straighten up his warehouse because his inventory was strewn about and most of it in ruins.

He was a huge pot head and also somewhat of a drinker and would come to the deal that way (which is probably not uncommon). During my fourth month of working there, which was just last month he asked me to callin and reserve him a u-haul because he needed totake furniture to his parents house for their garage sale. So I did. The next day I walked in and all of his stuff was gone. His computer, office decor, not to mention half of the merchandise in the warehouse and 5 days worth of bank deposits. I was assured that everything would be fine.

They sent another owner from lorida to take over this office. He was actually my old boss' best friend. They were best man for each others weddings. He was awesome. He was so much more grounded than my previous boss and we had fun in the office. He was funny yet very professional. His wife was actually his adminstrator for his company in Florida but he assured me that she was looking for other employment when she moved here. I had nothing to worry about plus we really got along. He was here for three and a half weeks and finally it was time forhim to grab his wife and belongings and bring them back here. Well Tuesday morning bright and early his wife comes stomping in on her cell and said not one word to me. Needless to say she did not like me. The sacond day she came in my boss started accusing me of things that had no relevance or truth to them and she was just egging him on. So I was the one who actually had the balls to ask him if he was planning on trying to find some legitament reason to fire me because his wife didn't like us working together, well guess what here I am... New job,Better Life. These people refer to the business as "cut throat" and they are right.

I have seen people walk away from 10 hours of work with $8. Most of the distributors in my location didn't have cars, were convicted felons, or had warrants out for their arrest. They were,for the most part, nice guys but they could have done better. I can't say that I didn't learn anything because I did. I learned how to lie and cheat people out of the opportunity of finding a better job than what I was offering them over the phone. (Jake) if you read this, please don't think that I am trying to ruin you because I want revenge... I just couldn't beleive you did things the way you did them.

For you others who put these companies down.. I have to say that I agree. I have seen too much agony and financial ruin to have anything great to say about these companies.

To all of you Juiced up morons, I hope you read this because 8 out of 10 present or future administrators will be telling a similar story.

I've gotta laugh at the "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" arguments presented by those supporting this pathetic business.

Why? Because no one in DS-Max could ever hold a candle to any of the subjects of your "motivational" rants. Larry? Give me a break. He's had over a decade as the figurehead of "the world's greatest opportunity", and he can't even make Canada's top 500. I think Keanu Reeves even made that list - behind the other 499 people who've actually made some sort of significant financial impact.

Is DS-Max going public anytime? I don't think so. If they did they'd be penny stock (highly speculative, shares worth less than a dollar). How would raising capital help? It wouldn't. After all, its not like they'd use it to hire brighter people, or develop new product. They are an old dog that's hit the ceiling. Their biggest asset is door-to-door sales. Nothing cutting edge there. Nor will it ever be. No underwriter would ever touch them. They are stagnant, and have been for some time.

They'll just keep churning product. That's it. People come and go, under the guise of mass expansion and opportunity. But they are going nowhere. Their support and resistence levels are set in stone on their profits because they are incapable of evolving. Some years will be better than others and some worse. But from a fundamental standpoint, they are screwed.

If you have a work ethic, there are so many other real opportunities for you. The self-rightous and complex-soothing proclomation that this no-name generic talent vacuum is some sort of benchmark for effort is comic gold.

Bust your a*s and waste your talent at DS-Max, and perhaps you could make $50,000.00 one year. Or leverage your abilities elsewhere, and make a dependable six figures.

All you have to do is ask questions. If they don't get answered there's a good reason.

For people like Hans, DS-Max is perfect. For some reason or another they are too blind to see their own hypocrisy. They complain about people complaining. They get their panties in a bunch over grammar, whilst butchering the written word themselves. Be wary of these idiots, for they are DS-Max's ambassadors.

I worked for DS Max in the UK one summer. I spotted almost straight away that it was all hype, but I went along with it as I found I was making quite a bit of money. I went though all of thier sales techniques (some rather questionable!) and learnt to use them, they worked and made me money. however I noticed the huge turnover of people, the constant attempts at brainwashing employees into thinking that this was the only way in the world to get rich, they constantly go on about 97% of all businesses failing (almost saying there was no point in setting up your own business), it was obvious that this was a standardised system, much like somewhere like Mcdonalds who run each of their franchises in a specific way. The way to runa DS Max office was to hire large amounts of people, try to instill a loyalty to the company by promising them huges rewards if they put up with the shocking working conditions now, even though only a tiny percentage would get their own office (I reckon 1 in 1000 due to the masssive turnover of staff), save money by making them slef emplyed, thus bypassing employment law and tax, getting them to train new employees, thus eliminating training costs.
Its a proven system that works and makes money, the only problem is is that it treats it's employees (if you can call them that) as an expendible commodity and effectively uses them and bleeds them dry until they quit.
With this in mind when I worked for them I decided to have no loyalty to them whatsoever, and used thier sales techniques to sell thier stuff as well as my own. we were told of the story of the seller who discovered a new product (some kind of electric tooth brush or something) sent it off to the main office and made a load of money as DS max now sells it, so I found a new product, it was a tiny LED keyring torch and was told I might get loads of money if they use it, I didn't trust them so instead bought a load of them and sold them along with my DS Max crap and doubled what I made, they sold far better than the DS Max stuff.
When it was "decided" that I was ready to train new employees I was shocked to find out that I had to pay them rather than DS Max! Why the hell should I do that!!?? They said it was to build your team so you could get promoted (in other words give you false hope so you will make the sacrifice) I thought this was not on so every time I got a new emplyee to take on their first day, i told them straight out what the job was rather than do what I was supposed to and string them along supposedly evaluating and interviewing them etc. After I had told them the majority thanked me and went home without wasting thier day or my money.
My manager did ask me why my team members never stayed for tmore than a day, I jsut said dperhaps i'm not good enough to manage. I did quite well each day making alot of money without loosing it to new employees etc.
So the moral of the story is that working for them for a summer job or a few months can (if you are good at it) be an easy way to make money, so long as you don't belive a word of what they say (apart form the selling techniques!)
If you work for a company which does not treat you as a human, do not give them your loyalty.
Even if you get promoted and run your office, you are not in control, you are still a pawn. Just forget it and set up your own real business, you will have freedom to make your own decisions and more money than you could ever make at DS Max. i know because I have

I worked for a branch of DS-Max in Toronto, Ontario, Canada for approximately 8 months. On some fortunate occasions I managed to make some decent cash but when I look back at the hours they would make you work it was not worth it. You are forced to work long hours for which you don't get paid. I would have to arrive at work around 7am and wouldn't get into the field until 9-10am. I learned alot from my time, but I developed the necessary skills that I use to this day from being more aware of corporate scams such as this one. You can have all the dreams in the world, but there is something strange when you're boss tells you he is a vice president of a corporation and he drives an older model Buick Regal and lives in a run down Sh*T hole of an apartment. I now make over $140,000 a year at the age of 24, they knew I was a killer team leader and I could make anyone stay in that Sh*T job, unfortunately for them they lost me and I now run my own successful business without any help from them.

Btw Adam of Sudbury, you're talking about being a Rhino? Let me guess, you're working for Ross Trevino who is still juicing kids up, but most likely now in sudbury! Is he still pretending to be rich and giving people false hope of one day being rich like him while he drives around in his sh*t box car? Maybe I'll come pick him up and take him for a ride in my Viper!

Bottom line is, you may learn some valuable lessons in business from working with DS-Max but you won't get rich selling junk a*s products from china that fall apart minutes after you walk away from your customer. Business only succeeds longterm when you can create repeat customers. These Ds-Max outlets move locations faster than I am able to change my underwear because they can't steadily hold a decent reputation in most communities.

I just wanted to say that I worked for a DS Max company called Tri-Universal. I was one of those college students that got nabbed. I'm always so ready to believe the good in people and am so honest that I don't realize that there are some people out there who would lie, cheat, and steal. I take responsibility for my actions. I fell for the ruse. I was promised $350-$450 a week by the guy who was to be my "leader." Looking back I can see how he "fear-of-lossed" me and then used sales techniques to keep me hooked. What it took for me was a scary late-night experience for me to realize that he was just a selfish guy out to take care of number one. Nevermind the bullsh*t that he kept feeding those of us on his team about taking care of us. No! That wasn't true. Looking back at comments made to me, I can see that he was a selfish, male chauvinist who liked controlling women. His sexual comments always made me uncomfortable. Then, one night, he followed me out to my car. I hadn't locked my doors, but thank God I saw him in time. He was reaching for my handle. I locked the door in time and he dialed me on my cell phone. I just drove off. The next day, I told one of my friends from there what had happened and she walked me into the owner's office. When I told the owner what had happened, she just waived her hand and said, "Oh, that's just so-and-so (names unavailable because I don't want to start anything.) He's harmless." And that was the end of that. No more. I never again want to have anything to do with Tri-Universal. I'm just glad I got out after three weeks instead of three months or three years. I now work for the Military and make about $41K a year. Hey, I may not be rolling in millions and millions of dollars, but I have my health, my family, and my bills are all being paid, plus I can afford vacation and medical. Some things are more important than money. I love my career now and have great opportunities for advancement. This site really helped me feel not as alone either... If anyone could let me know about that lawsuit, that'd be great. I don't want to bleed them or anything. I just want my voice heard and I don't want that to ever have to happen to anyone else!

My husband had an interview with a company in our local area who claimed they would train him in marketing and pay him very well. The name was not familiar and so I went to the companys website. It was very shoddy did vague. It did however claim they worked with DSMAX as a supplier. I googled DSMAX and came across this website, read the info on the company and it all started to fall into place.

I want to thank the people who have posted the truth about what this program or "company" is all about before my husband got involved in it. We have a family and don't have time for this kind of crap. Even with the rebuttals trying very hard to make DSMAX out to be legit, the truth can be seen.

About 4 years ago, I was fresh out of college. Couldn't find a job in my major field (information technology). I was working for a book store until I found something better (happened very slowly, but it happened). I saw an ad in the paper that met my qualifications. Interviewed, went on the first road trip for a full 12 hours. Got hired.

This company (based in Richmond, VA) got me so psyched up and hopeful that I would eventually become a leader and then a manager opening my own office or owning the current one. I didn't take into consideration that there were 9 people in front of me with the same hopes and aspirations (stupid a*s me!) Anyway, here I am, hustling 6 days a week, 12 hours and on Sunday, which was optional (how nice of them) for 8 hours.

It started daily with the morning motivational meetings, sales pitch practice, dos and don'ts, body language and things. One thing I'll say that's positive, it will prove to be motivational for those of you who do not have self motivation. It makes you look up to the manager (who is making money off of your sweat). This particular manager was probably well off in the mid 70's or 80,000 range. But he lives in a townhouse so I wouldn't say he had "made it". We also had to learn the story of DSMAX, the knive sales beginning and the don't quit attitude. In the history, you also learned attributes and things to help you sell.

Now to the meat of the whole report. I would go home to my mother and tell her of how I had found the answer and that this business would make me financially independent in a matter of months. She had no comments for me other than "Good, son." I know she had been in sales for other companies (Electrolux) and thought the same. Of course at that time, no one could tell me anything, because I was bound to prove them wrong.

Throughout the week, I was selling with a more experienced member. He sold and I sold. Because he would lead more of the sales and I would learn and do sales throughout the day, at the end of the day, his money cut was a bit larger than mine. I would go home with about $30-45 bucks a day. That's NOTHING. I thought it was cool because I didn't have a job. But for 12 hours of work a day, you do the math. Well below minumum wage, and to think I quit my bookstore job for this.

Anyway, I quit the job and the manager was hounding me as to why I didn't want to do it anymore. Constantly insulting me, saying things like "What are going to do now, I brought you to my house for dinner!! Are you going to work at the bookstore all of your life? Are you going to keep trying to work with computers and get turned down?" I was highly insulted and I told him to basically go to hell. I was surprised at him as a manager and very disappointed in the company.

Ironically, today, I was talking to my wife about that experience and wondered if there were a group for DSMAX here in West Palm Beach, FL. I thought that if they did the same as we did in VA, going business to business, on foot in business in the smoldering heat, that they'd die from dehydration. So I go on my 15 minute break from my current job(which I am happy and comfortable with) and at my regular break spot, I see two people going from business to business selling wholesale products. I was like "This has to be a Sylvia Brown moment, there's no way after all these years I would just stubble upon the same sales group."

Today, I had totally forgotten the name of the company, the founder and all this. I stopped the gentleman and lady and asked them who was the founder and the company name. I then told them I used to do this in VA. He asked why I quit, I said "it wasn't for me". He was like "Yeah, I've been doing this for a couple of weeks (as in 2 WEEKS??) and I'll have my own office next week. You should get back in it, the opportunity is amazing." He had a middle age black woman with him who just looked desperate in the face. I bid them good day and went back to work.

Don't believe the hype. The only folks that are making money are those WAY above you. And they're looking down laughing, filthy rich.

I worked just over a month with DSMax. It was a company called Marketing Sessions in NJ. A punk-a*s 27 year-old ran the company. These are my observations:

1) How dare you have a bad day. If you have a bad day, management liked to make you feel like a piece of crap.

2) You pay all of your own expenses. I drove about 1000 miles per week on my own dime. Yeah.
3) The boss was definitely trying to get a piece of a*s. There was a really cute girl that started there and she did pretty well in the beginning. He was going out to dinner with her and telling everyone how they were failing while she was doing great. I didn't see anyone else getting dinner invitations.

4) It took 4-6 weeks to get your first check. How are you supposed to live on no money for 4-6 weeks?

5) No negatives and watch your back. People were constantly listening to your conversations just waiting to run back to King Michael saying that Person X said something negative. Here is something negative that I said. "It takes a while to get your first check but that's okay." I said this when a new person was concerned as to when her check would arrive. I was reamed for saying this.

6) No cash bonuses. We would have contests head to head with another person. Did the winner get cash? No, the winner got to put shaving cream in the loser's face. Rah rah, give me some cash, I'm all but working for free as it is.

7) Working from 6:30am to 7:30pm 5 days per week. 9am-4pm on Saturdays. They liked to keep you busy and tired, always making money for the manager.

8) They frowned at you stopping somewhere for lunch.

9) You had better not arrive back at the office early, that would mean you didn't spend all of your time making the manager money.

These are just a few thoughts. The bottom line, DSMax is not the mafia, it's a cult. They keep you tired, hungry and broke. Plain and simple. For those select few that made money, all power to you, but how do you sleep at night knowing what you are doing to people??

I didnt hack it in DS MAX. I just didnt have what it took to make it, or should i say i had what it took to quit, which was a heart. But its your own stupidity for letting DS MAX use you. If it sounds too good to be true it is!!! And there are over 1 million former DS MAX employees who will tell you the same. I know several dozen personally who put in years and walked away with nothing but debt and empty promises that after 10 months even, theyd make 100,000 a year.

DS MAX should be shut down, and the con artists who run it put in jail. The problem we have now though is that there isnt enough publicity about DS MAX to shut them down. Thats why i make it a point to let everyone i know who they are and how they operate so they dont get conned into doing the same thing i did, which was believe my manager when he said its better then going to law or med school.

Its a glorified door to door sales job. Thats all it is. Its not glamorous, its not rewarding, its nothing you can make a living on, unless your the type of person who doesnt mind ripping people off and soliciting illegally. Its a perfect job for criminals all around.

You forgot one major difference between most companies and DSMAX. Most companies pay you!!! After all why else do we work for a company? Real money, not carrots dangled in front of you. Yeah yeah you can show me a bank statement whatever most of us are smarter than the 300 thousand a year ploy. Carrot Juice by you DSMAX!!!!!!!!!

Excel Advertising in Lansing, MI is the best DS-MAX company in the world.

Love,

I was associated with DS MAX for 5 years. While many things stated here have some validity, all is not as black and white or cut and dry as many would have you believe.

Did I advance? Yes.
Did I make money? Yes and no.
Do they feed you with mindless crap? Yes and no.
Are they any different than any other major corporation alive in America today? ABSOLUTELY NOT!!

I have read all the reports listed here, and one thing stands out to me. Most of you who have harsh and evil things to say about this company were only involved for a limited time. The average respondent was only with the company for a mere few weeks. Of course, we have heard from others, but I am stating the average.

All business is money and profit motivated. This one is no different. ALL companies weed out the "weak" or "not so productive". Every company removes their "dissidents" or those they feel are not doing or saying what is in the "best interest of the company". GROW UP!!

After leaving DS MAX (under the umbrella of DDS Sahne Flores) I went to work for a leader in the insurance industry. Let me let you in on a little secret....they treat their employees exactly the same! If they feel threatened by your ideas, or if you are not a "yes man", out the door you go. This company DOES trade on the stock exchange, and is part of a conglomerate owned by one of the wealthiest men in the world and they care nothing for the people making them money any more than any other major corporation.

Face facts and reality...DS Max is big business and that is all there is to it. ALL major corporations are about the bottom line. If it's in red and not black, something's got to give.

I am not bitter over my association with DS Max, but I do have bittersweet memories. I wish all who are affiliated with them the best of luck, and for those of you with bad memories and experiences I hope you find whatever it is you are after.

Hey for all those automatic responses of "As an owner I have net worth of over 300,000 a year and I am only 25." You failed to mention how much money you actually bring home. Since you are responsible for all your overhead and advertising. The average owner makes under 30,000 a year take home, if they last more than two years, most do not. So hold on to that dream guys, work your a*s off so you too can drive a crappy car and live with seven of your co-workers working 80 hour weeks. I will stick with my modest salary of 40,000 a year doing a legitimate job working 40 hours a week so I can spend time with my family. I suggest the rest of you with any common sense do the same.

Hey for all those automatic responses of "As an owner I have net worth of over 300,000 a year and I am only 25." You failed to mention how much money you actually bring home. Since you are responsible for all your overhead and advertising. The average owner makes under 30,000 a year take home, if they last more than two years, most do not. So hold on to that dream guys, work your a*s off so you too can drive a crappy car and live with seven of your co-workers working 80 hour weeks. I will stick with my modest salary of 40,000 a year doing a legitimate job working 40 hours a week so I can spend time with my family. I suggest the rest of you with any common sense do the same.

Hey for all those automatic responses of "As an owner I have net worth of over 300,000 a year and I am only 25." You failed to mention how much money you actually bring home. Since you are responsible for all your overhead and advertising. The average owner makes under 30,000 a year take home, if they last more than two years, most do not. So hold on to that dream guys, work your a*s off so you too can drive a crappy car and live with seven of your co-workers working 80 hour weeks. I will stick with my modest salary of 40,000 a year doing a legitimate job working 40 hours a week so I can spend time with my family. I suggest the rest of you with any common sense do the same.

Hey for all those automatic responses of "As an owner I have net worth of over 300,000 a year and I am only 25." You failed to mention how much money you actually bring home. Since you are responsible for all your overhead and advertising. The average owner makes under 30,000 a year take home, if they last more than two years, most do not. So hold on to that dream guys, work your a*s off so you too can drive a crappy car and live with seven of your co-workers working 80 hour weeks. I will stick with my modest salary of 40,000 a year doing a legitimate job working 40 hours a week so I can spend time with my family. I suggest the rest of you with any common sense do the same.

Guess what? No one ever got rich working for someone else. No matter what you say, you still work for someone else.

As much as you say that you make this much money, and that much money. And how it only costs this much and you only have to put in "A Fair Days Work". You will not make it.

I make well into 6 figures now and I laugh at those fools at SMS for what they do. I got lucky, I work for a good company in the IT field and I don't have to work 70-90hours a week.

But if I did, at least I make the money I should get. You show up at 0700, and work until 5pm. But it's all in a fair days work. You pay for all the gas, repairs on your car, lug boxes around all for maybe 30 bucks a day.

But stick at it, soon you'll make 13 grand a month like me. B.S. I know for a fact that is wrong. All of you backing this up are getting kick-backs for saying what you say. I'd love to talk to your family and friends and let them tell me how well you did.

I know that will never happen, because none of you have friends and family. You lost'em all when you "Went for the Dream". So to rap this all up, all you owners are liars and will keep lying. Keep it up and maybe one day, it will be true....HA!!!!

Guess what? No one ever got rich working for someone else. No matter what you say, you still work for someone else.

As much as you say that you make this much money, and that much money. And how it only costs this much and you only have to put in "A Fair Days Work". You will not make it.

I make well into 6 figures now and I laugh at those fools at SMS for what they do. I got lucky, I work for a good company in the IT field and I don't have to work 70-90hours a week.

But if I did, at least I make the money I should get. You show up at 0700, and work until 5pm. But it's all in a fair days work. You pay for all the gas, repairs on your car, lug boxes around all for maybe 30 bucks a day.

But stick at it, soon you'll make 13 grand a month like me. B.S. I know for a fact that is wrong. All of you backing this up are getting kick-backs for saying what you say. I'd love to talk to your family and friends and let them tell me how well you did.

I know that will never happen, because none of you have friends and family. You lost'em all when you "Went for the Dream". So to rap this all up, all you owners are liars and will keep lying. Keep it up and maybe one day, it will be true....HA!!!!

Guess what? No one ever got rich working for someone else. No matter what you say, you still work for someone else.

As much as you say that you make this much money, and that much money. And how it only costs this much and you only have to put in "A Fair Days Work". You will not make it.

I make well into 6 figures now and I laugh at those fools at SMS for what they do. I got lucky, I work for a good company in the IT field and I don't have to work 70-90hours a week.

But if I did, at least I make the money I should get. You show up at 0700, and work until 5pm. But it's all in a fair days work. You pay for all the gas, repairs on your car, lug boxes around all for maybe 30 bucks a day.

But stick at it, soon you'll make 13 grand a month like me. B.S. I know for a fact that is wrong. All of you backing this up are getting kick-backs for saying what you say. I'd love to talk to your family and friends and let them tell me how well you did.

I know that will never happen, because none of you have friends and family. You lost'em all when you "Went for the Dream". So to rap this all up, all you owners are liars and will keep lying. Keep it up and maybe one day, it will be true....HA!!!!

Guess what? No one ever got rich working for someone else. No matter what you say, you still work for someone else.

As much as you say that you make this much money, and that much money. And how it only costs this much and you only have to put in "A Fair Days Work". You will not make it.

I make well into 6 figures now and I laugh at those fools at SMS for what they do. I got lucky, I work for a good company in the IT field and I don't have to work 70-90hours a week.

But if I did, at least I make the money I should get. You show up at 0700, and work until 5pm. But it's all in a fair days work. You pay for all the gas, repairs on your car, lug boxes around all for maybe 30 bucks a day.

But stick at it, soon you'll make 13 grand a month like me. B.S. I know for a fact that is wrong. All of you backing this up are getting kick-backs for saying what you say. I'd love to talk to your family and friends and let them tell me how well you did.

I know that will never happen, because none of you have friends and family. You lost'em all when you "Went for the Dream". So to rap this all up, all you owners are liars and will keep lying. Keep it up and maybe one day, it will be true....HA!!!!

Do you know the percent of the proceeds that go to "Wheelchair" Charities?? Think about it...you make money of what you sell, your manager makes money of what you sell, Your Uncle "vice-president of Granton Marketing" makes money of what you sell...How much do you charge consumers for the product? then ask yourself "How much is left for the people that really need it???"

It is so nice to see that almost every rebuttal with concerns for cydcor, ds-max, granton, and innovage...it's the same thing.

"Your just mad because you couldn't cut it"

Seriously. Do you think that if this really was the reason there would be pages and pages of complaints, from HUNDREDS of people AROUND THE WORLD?? If they just couldn't cut it????

I wish the clients of these companies could read this website...just to see the juvenille mentality of the outsourced sales person that they are working with!!! Hey thats a good idea, lets show the clients who they are working with!!!

From my opinion, the only reason why Mr. Xjuice, or whatever you name is, said what he did is because he couldn't get anywhere in the company.

I currently am a part time employee for a division for DSMAX, which is Wheelchair Sports Cause Marketing. Not to mention that my uncle is a Vice President of Granton Marketing and the owner of WSCM. And in no way shape or form are we a rip off.

We sell products with a proceed of all sales benefitting people with disabilities.
And with him making over $400,000 a year I have no clue how the whole thing would be a hoax. It just sounds to me like someone is upset because he wasn't cut out for the job.

I worked for JMD Advertising in Portland OR for aproximately six months. I left because, as they say in the biz, my back door was no longer closed. The management position became less and less appealing to me. It was not because I wasn't willing to work for it, it was because the company is extremely unethical and dishonest.

I was not willing to spend another day of my life telling these day of O's all this crap about the Yankees and your future and all the riches available when I was having a hard time financially. The purpose in me writing this is not to beat down the company, I know there's no point and besides, I could right a novel on that subject, My purpose is that I hope that my friends that I made while working there, including my ex girlfriend whom I had to leave due to her commitment to the company, will soon realize that this is not a healthy business that will make you rich and stable.

OF course you believe that now due to the coersive meetings and chants and goals and opportunities and bell ringings and 6 days a week, thirteen hour a day work schedule and "juice to this" and "juice by that" and "you are so juicy" and bonuses and the whole process. The fact of the matter is that I have been to business school and have owned my own business while in college, its true that I did get sucked in ( not completely blinded by everything) but I do know that this company breaks people, it uses good people with high aspirations, and is fueled by a greed that goes to the extent to use people's weeknesses by way of telling them that they are strong.

I went into the company and came out with some knowledge of sales and educated in the sense that I know how not to develop a business plan. But I saw and was responsible for wasting the time and energy of a lot of descent people by lying to them, and building up a pipe dream of a success stories to them.

I appologize to all of those people and to my 5 year old daughter, who I saw about 3 times in the six months that I worked for the company, I'm sorry for getting sucked in and I'm sorry that I'm too broke to pay child support because I invested too much of my time(which is money) into this joke of a company.

For all of you reading this, who are still working with granton marketing: Know that what I am saying is true. Don't be fooled by the picture that is being painted of this exotic lifestyle with margarittas on the beach. The owner of the office I worked for up and left out of nowhere.

She drained the company of its securities(so the rumors say) and left with her boyfriend who was the owner of the inovage office in portland. Both of the two are people who I have a specific level of respect for and understanding for.

They were good people who just got wrapped up in this screwy part of the world that is unfortunately able to stay afloat. I mean they aren't doing anything illegal as far a I know, its just too bad that a company can profit off the losses of so many people. I love business, I am now working as a loan officer and processor for a mortgage brokerage, and I know that this is a poor excuse for a business. Its almost like legal drug dealing.

Its addictive and does't get many people very far. Yeah, there are a few that make a lot of money from it, but is that the kind of money that you want to be made of. Its sad that so many people will answer yes due to greed, ignorance, or just a really good business man/woman with no sense of ethics.

I have so much to say, however I have a real future to work for, so for the first time since I worked for granton, my time is valuable. I would love to, however read any responses to this. Even though I know what kind of scripted response thats been engraved into your head, taking over your ability to come up with a response from your own creative mind. I would love to hear something new though. Bless you lost souls.

9 out of 10 responses on here are from someone that has been in an independent branch for 3 to 6 weeks

I personally have been in this company for 2 years and have never had a problem

Any large company that is just starting up goes through growing pains and provides a "rocky" opportunity

Starting up a restaurant is a lot more difficult than running one of these businesses

I actually use this website as a method to teach my trainers what not to do

Thank you for all the horror stories - I use them to learn from and grow my business

Go to WALMARTs website - it out does this one 100 times over - because they grow even faster - therefore have even more similar stories - lets shut them down too

9 out of 10 responses on here are from someone that has been in an independent branch for 3 to 6 weeks

I personally have been in this company for 2 years and have never had a problem

Any large company that is just starting up goes through growing pains and provides a "rocky" opportunity

Starting up a restaurant is a lot more difficult than running one of these businesses

I actually use this website as a method to teach my trainers what not to do

Thank you for all the horror stories - I use them to learn from and grow my business

Go to WALMARTs website - it out does this one 100 times over - because they grow even faster - therefore have even more similar stories - lets shut them down too

9 out of 10 responses on here are from someone that has been in an independent branch for 3 to 6 weeks

I personally have been in this company for 2 years and have never had a problem

Any large company that is just starting up goes through growing pains and provides a "rocky" opportunity

Starting up a restaurant is a lot more difficult than running one of these businesses

I actually use this website as a method to teach my trainers what not to do

Thank you for all the horror stories - I use them to learn from and grow my business

Go to WALMARTs website - it out does this one 100 times over - because they grow even faster - therefore have even more similar stories - lets shut them down too

9 out of 10 responses on here are from someone that has been in an independent branch for 3 to 6 weeks

I personally have been in this company for 2 years and have never had a problem

Any large company that is just starting up goes through growing pains and provides a "rocky" opportunity

Starting up a restaurant is a lot more difficult than running one of these businesses

I actually use this website as a method to teach my trainers what not to do

Thank you for all the horror stories - I use them to learn from and grow my business

Go to WALMARTs website - it out does this one 100 times over - because they grow even faster - therefore have even more similar stories - lets shut them down too

"Can you work for yourself? It seems to me that the IRS reports that 93% of Americans have to wholesale their time for a paycheck working for other people. Only 7% of Americans have the stamina that it takes to work for themselves."

If you work for DS-Max, you are NOT working for yourself, you are under a boss just like any 9-5 job. There are some differences.
-DS-MAX jobs require longer hours
-You have no benefits and are making less than minimum wage after all expenses
-You are under false delusions and posting messages likes the last one.
-Your bosses only goal is to suck money from you.

"For you that didn't make it, enjoy watching TV while the rest of them are trying to make something of themselves."

Actually most of us are working real jobs now where we are fairly compensated and given benefits. As far as watching TV, with a 40 hour week instead of 70 we now have the free time to watch TV, see family and friends, go out, etc

"OK. So you didn't make it. You are angry that you were asked to provide a dream and a vision and march toward setting and hitting goals."

Wow, you really have been drinking the DS-Max kool-aid. I guess DS-max is the only way to accomplish your goals according to you.

"Also, most of you need to learn how to spell and use words like they're, not there, or their. If you are going to complain, at least get your grammer right."

Good point, Please tell me what grammer means. I'm familiar with the term grammar but not grammer. Is that another DS-Max term like juice and day of 0?

The point of our complaints is not that we did not succeed. It is that these companies give you no real chance to succeed and are allowed to rip off many people who are already in financially desperate situations. By complaing, we try to prevent people from making a decision that they will regret.

One more thing, for every 50 work at home, online and pyramid scams that you see in advertisements, there are occasional business opportunites such as franchises, expanding sales territories of large companies and in some cases inventing an idea and turning it onto a business or career. There is legitimate opportunity but they do require hard work and are only for a few but lets make this clear, DS-Max is NOT one of these. Hopefully when people report scams to others, they can choose a real opportunity and succeed.

It seems to me that the IRS reports that 93% of Americans have to wholesale their time for a paycheck working for other people. Only 7% of Americans have the stamina that it takes to work for themselves. It seems that any entrepreneurial training program that strives to find these 7% would disenfranchise the 93% that can't make it. I am sorry they are crying over spilled milk. It is a harsh reality. The founding fathers of America had the entire English empire against them...yet a handful persevered so that the rest of us could simply enjoy the lap of luxury and The Simpsons. For you that didn't make it, enjoy watching TV while the rest of them are trying to make something of themselves.

OK. So you didn't make it. You are angry that you were asked to provide a dream and a vision and march toward setting and hitting goals. That's the problem with most people. They wake up every day no closer to hitting goals they never set for themselves in the first place.

Life is a matter of exposure. The more you expose yourself to, the more successful you will become. If this worked for you great. If it didn't, keep it to yourself and learn from it. Every negative has a silver lining.

When Ross Perot reported for his first day of work in IBM's sales department he was given his annual sales quota. He disappeared for 30 days and no one could find him. He reappeared 30 days later and asked his boss, "What do you want me to do next?" Most of you are not like Ross Perot. You won't make it because you would have never disappeared for 30 days. You miss the POINT! Everyone else at IBM did exactly what they were supposed to do. (That's the job you are looking for) Did you see any of them ending up as billionaires that ran for President?

By working in sales, and struggling, Ross Perot and 9 out of 10 other Fortune 500 CEOs in America learned "how to win friends and influence people." You don't do that by critisizing, condemning and complaining on the companies regarding this rebuttal.

Also, most of you need to learn how to spell and use words like they're, not there, or their. If you are going to complain, at least get your grammer right. Perhaps it was THEIR mistake for tryng to hire you. Apparently it isn't THEIR loss now. Tis organization seems to work for a lot of major corporations. The people running these corporations are not, repeat not stupid. People who run Fortune 500 companies are accountable, responsible, and work with people like them who have INTEGRITY and an insatiable work ethic. Without these characteristic and attributes their brand image and equity is lost. You complain but your (not you're) 2+2 doesn't seem to equal 4 in this instance. I am sorry you lost your attitude.

Thank you.

i worked there and i'll tell you what, it was a big scam. "jason" is probably someone who makes money promoting them and liying in forums like this. i worked there for 3 weeks and i knew how much of a scam it was. all the gas i spent, time and other money i put in to "the dream" was a waste. i just saw someone who i worked with, a leader, big seller, now working at a gym. the funny thing is he rung the bell everyday and now make 3 time less the money i make. he'd laugh at us new guys saying how easy it was. now he's doing nothing for himself. thank god i got outta there since there wasa no room to grow. i never saw anyone or knew anyone to make it big with "the dream". so like i said, it's all a scam and i feel bad for the people who really think they'll make it. you won't but the "owners" will. so i'm with you xjuice. screw ds max, screw sms(the one i worked at) and screw whoever thinks this is a great deal. thank you,

i worked there and i'll tell you what, it was a big scam. "jason" is probably someone who makes money promoting them and liying in forums like this. i worked there for 3 weeks and i knew how much of a scam it was. all the gas i spent, time and other money i put in to "the dream" was a waste. i just saw someone who i worked with, a leader, big seller, now working at a gym. the funny thing is he rung the bell everyday and now make 3 time less the money i make. he'd laugh at us new guys saying how easy it was. now he's doing nothing for himself. thank god i got outta there since there wasa no room to grow. i never saw anyone or knew anyone to make it big with "the dream". so like i said, it's all a scam and i feel bad for the people who really think they'll make it. you won't but the "owners" will. so i'm with you xjuice. screw ds max, screw sms(the one i worked at) and screw whoever thinks this is a great deal. thank you,

i worked there and i'll tell you what, it was a big scam. "jason" is probably someone who makes money promoting them and liying in forums like this. i worked there for 3 weeks and i knew how much of a scam it was. all the gas i spent, time and other money i put in to "the dream" was a waste. i just saw someone who i worked with, a leader, big seller, now working at a gym. the funny thing is he rung the bell everyday and now make 3 time less the money i make. he'd laugh at us new guys saying how easy it was. now he's doing nothing for himself. thank god i got outta there since there wasa no room to grow. i never saw anyone or knew anyone to make it big with "the dream". so like i said, it's all a scam and i feel bad for the people who really think they'll make it. you won't but the "owners" will. so i'm with you xjuice. screw ds max, screw sms(the one i worked at) and screw whoever thinks this is a great deal. thank you,

i worked there and i'll tell you what, it was a big scam. "jason" is probably someone who makes money promoting them and liying in forums like this. i worked there for 3 weeks and i knew how much of a scam it was. all the gas i spent, time and other money i put in to "the dream" was a waste. i just saw someone who i worked with, a leader, big seller, now working at a gym. the funny thing is he rung the bell everyday and now make 3 time less the money i make. he'd laugh at us new guys saying how easy it was. now he's doing nothing for himself. thank god i got outta there since there wasa no room to grow. i never saw anyone or knew anyone to make it big with "the dream". so like i said, it's all a scam and i feel bad for the people who really think they'll make it. you won't but the "owners" will. so i'm with you xjuice. screw ds max, screw sms(the one i worked at) and screw whoever thinks this is a great deal. thank you,

Richard,

I read your story and I think how similar you are to me. The carrot and the stick kept me in too. The relationships, the hype, the goals. You don't want to have had it all be for nought. But like someone said above "opportunity can only be made where opportunity actually exists".

They get you to be so committed that you defend their way of life afterwards. Even though you are dead broke you thank God for the experience. This business has left people broke and sucked dry for decades. It deludes you into doing sweat shop sales influences you to expand massive amounts of effort. And then when it is done with you it discards you like a used kleenex - not even fit to be brought up in atmosphere anymore. Check out the msn chat group ds-max the aftermath.

Only a handful of people even see management, only a handful of those will ever make any money at all. Most managers leave with nothing to show for it.

Best wishes to you.

i had just graduated from indiana university and was searching all the jobquest sites for an opportunity to make some money to pay my college debts, advance in a career, and then hopefully return to school. i was surprised to have found so many marketing jobs for entry level and with the possiblity for advance, but i did my research. i found some of these companies were under the umbrella of d.s. max and found many sites such as ripoffreport with people dissing and bad mouthing the "opportunity". however, i finally found a company that seemed to be just what i was looking for. they seemed well established and just outside of chicago, so i took the interview. the first interview was held by a young gentleman only a few years older than myself. i found this to be great. a guy so young and he already was the "guy in the chair"! he asked if I was hard working, motivated, and willing to start asap. "sure, yes, i want this job! but, i have to move from bloomington, indiana first. give me a week and i'll i'll be here first thing monday morning." so there I was, beginning my life and ready to make some money. or so i thought. it's never financially easy to move, but i was going to be banking if i just worked extremely hard. i was no stranger to to working hard, so i could easily imagine myself as "the guy in the chair". i soon found out the connections of cydcor and d.s. max however. the underdog stories sure seemed great, i was one of those guys from nothing that would be something. my leader was making a killing.

she would hit the streets of chicago and sign people up to use sbc instead of some other local phone service. she was a knuckle head, barely a brain in her skull, so i would do even better! little did i know that opportunity could only be made where opportunity actually existed. so i hit the suburbs of chicago, in some areas where real money was flaunted and guys in suits going door to door are not appreciated.

i worked my a*s off. i walked with a purpose, believed in the law of averages, followed my five steps to a conversation, and i truly believed in what i was doing. i was doing pretty good for some one so new. all the other leaders were jealous of my leader because she got the sharp college guy who was going to be a future vp. i went up to wisconsin to see how a brand new office worked, learned their system and found myself really caught up in the operation. however, as i neared my time for promotion to leader, i realized the financial opportunity was coming up short.

i did not have that many bills to pay, but i was reassured by this point in time, i would be making enough in a week that my car payment, rent, utilities, and other expenditures would be well paid for. i had to turn to paying my utilities and anything else possible with credit cards. i was basically going into debt, just for the "opportunity". what the hell was i doing wrong? i was showing up early, staying late, talking to the boss about what made him successful.

the stress and pressure was building. i remember, one my mentors, a guy that really seemed to have it all going for him, vanished one day. i was concerned, we showed up to work whether or not we were dying. i asked my trainer and she shushed me. "we don't talk about that in atmosphere". "whoa, but what happened to derrick"! it was explained to me, this guy who really was making strides hit a tough streak.

he couldn't get these businesses to sign on the dotted line and convert their business lines to sbc. this was not a good sign. i always found it so weird and shady that we could not talk about the downs in the office or in atmosphere, we literally had to go to the parking lot. i would question the opportunity and some guy on the fast track would reassure me.

"your very juicy and are going to make it, hang in there". i remember walking to parking lot after one of those tough days. in football, they'd call it "leaving all out on the field". i made squat that day, maybe sold one contract out of the 75 businesses i had talked to. i probably spent more in gas and lunch then i made. there was a guy younger than myself, probably in the business for only two weeks and i went to console just as others had doe for me. he went off! "i'm done with this place, i haven't made any money all week. i'm here before 7 a.m. and i don't leave until d**n near 7 p.m. i could make more working as a temp. and what the hell is a guy like you doing here anyways".

i really did not understand what the hell the guy was talking about. "you have potential to do something more than just make money off of people". i tried to defend myself and cydcor. i used the same retorts that so many d.s. max defenders on this board have used. but that guy was gone and i never saw him again. it was about a week later, i was still broke and bouncing from small business to small business in the middle of a industrial complex in schamburg, il.

person after person snapped on me. "you know how many of you hustlers come in here, get the hell out"! "i have sbc and you guys are all about misrepresentation, you are lucky I don't call the cops". i finally landed a bill in my hands and started doing the math to see about saving them money. i sat in the corner of their office crunching the numbers and realized, i could not help them. they were so willing to sign up. i knew all i had to do was propose them a deal and i would be that much closer to my "bell". but, i thought about it, i was there to help this woman.

i was on the verge of taking advantage of her so i could pay my bills, but i would be putting her further in the hole. "i'm sorry mam, but your plan is better than what i can offer you. have a good day". i went outside in the blazing summer heat, took my suit coat off, called my father, and cried like a little boy. i worked my a*s off and i had nothing to show for it. i was broke, tired, and on the verge of having my car repoed. but how could i quit now! i moved to woodridge, il, for the opportunity to be a president of a company.

i had nothing to show from the past few months. on the other hand, i guess i did. i had my integrity, my pride, and i still had my resilience. i was not going to tell half truths, manipulate people, or juice somebody up that needed help.

i walked away from that business that day. oddly enough, the next job i took was with a branch of granton marketing. i went through the same ups and downs, but i really enjoyed the system and believed in it. i truly was juiced up, i was working with the d.a.r.e. america program in the d.s. max charity division and felt like i was helping people.

i explained to my manager during my interview, i did not want anything to do with underhanded activities and i saw this as a great opportunity to help people, as well as help myself. it was a residential program and i did my research and explained to people how funds were distributed and if people thought i was ripping off the system, i would apologize and be on my way. again, i was on my way.

i liked the people, the boss and this time it felt as if the past was just a bad experience i could learn from. i went a solid week with making a hunderd bucks a day. i was paying my bills again. then, the vp. dereck colantonio decided he wanted to change clients and we started pushing the wheelchair basketball books and i was relocated to another office. wow! now d.a.r.e. was not the most glamorous work in the world, but when i started hawking the wheelchair books, i felt like i had returned to my elementary band days again.

i was selling coupon books that were actually inferior to what the d**n schools were selling. so not only was i competing against people in my office in a rehashed territory, but i was competing with youth football cheerleaders and band boosters.

hell, some of the coupons had even expired. my boss, the manager of the d.a.r. e. office was doing well for himself, but he was himself was forced to retrain because it was new client. he was forced out of the area and had to open a new office in california. i was offered the opportunity to move to dallas with a guy who had just got promoted or stay in the office with a guy who blantly said, "I could care less about the charity on the book, we could take the d**n wheelchair guys off and simply sell the book as just a coupon book".

well so much for helping people and I quit. so, i'm a quitter, right. that's what the d.s. max guys will say. i had never quit a job in my entire life before i ran across d.s. max.

the only time i ever left a job was because i was either going back to school, leaving school for the summer, and my bosses always said the same thing, "just give me a call when your back in the area and i'll put you on the schedule". my year with d.s. max was my toughest year and i do regret moving for a job that completely flopped. i'm also grateful, because it can't get any worse and i proved my resilience.

i still have a fat credit card bill because of those days, i wrecked the car that was to be repoed, but i made it through and now i'm ready to concur. juice by d.s. max for giving some people a great opportunity. with a little bit of luck and hard work, i'm sure you can make it. i guess i was just lacking in the luck department, because i worked my a*s off. but p.s. to those who do run their own show.

i had one really good boss and a couple of really bad bosses. so, that was a great example of the law of averages for me. keep your integrity and try not to lead people on with half truths.

i know the law of averages works the same exact way when it comes to the entry level people walking through your door. the more grunts, the better opportunity for your office and yourself to make money. it is really tempting, but isn't intergrity more important than a benz or beemer.

This forum is interesting to me because I worked for a company in Rochester NY that was affiliated with DS-Max(Revolution Marketing, I dont know if it still exists). I left within five work days realizing how bad things were. I always thought that i was just at a bad branch. Who knew that things were this bad throughout the entire company.

Anyway, here is my story. I was 23 and one year removed from college with a Biology degree. I had just left a Microbiology job and responded to a newspaper ad similar to ones posted throughout this and came in with the impression that this would be temporary until I found a better option. I left soon after realizing that these people were all scumbags and that I was expected to work six 14 hours days a week.

Although I saw all of them happen I will save time by not referring to things such as Juice chants, Day of O, leader tactics and other things that are consistent throughout this board. This is some other stuff that I can add which I observed day to day.

During the first interview I was told that this would be ideal for a temporary job with 30 hours a week so I could look for other job's
Day 1(Day of O)-I was not told that I was walking door to door until I was in the car with my "leader" Luke on the way to his street. I previously had been told by the interviewer and the leader that I would be touring other offices and distribution centers.
Days 2&3-I heard people at all levels consistently berate every type of career such as Doctors, Teachers, Scientist as
"Bag's of S&%t"(this term was used instead of cows) who had no ambition.
Day 3-I heard a leader berate a kid for being negative after this kid called him upset because his CD players and CD's were stolen from his car.
He then told him to "get back out and sell his 10 Apps, no excuses!"
Day 4-I observed that The manager would pull the leaders in his office and scream at them at the top of his lungs telling them they they were doing a bad job and that they would become "Bags of S&%t" if they werent careful. These leader would then go out to "Atmosphere" with these positive attitude telling all of us how uplifting there meeting was and try to juice us for this day. A newer leader later admitted to me that this happened every day
Last day-I was told that my college degree was worthless, and that my hobby of weightlifting and that my being a Christian and going to church would only be a waste of time if I wanted to succeed in this field. Needless to say, I was gone after this.
-I was not payed my check that I was entitled to for three months. I ended up having to write a letter threatening Litigation

Keep in mind that I saw all of this in only five days. Why did I even stay that long? Dangling the carrot of (running your own business in six months really can have you deciding to "try it for one more day"

I have worked a couple of jobs since and no matter how bad a day I might have I can think of this experience and realize that things could be worse. What frustrates me is that I see five or six consistent ads in the paper and now realize that these are most likely similar businesses.

I doubt that every DS Max, Cydcor, and Granton based facility is run this poorly but if 10 percent of what is posted here is accurate anywhere, get out and get out now!

This forum is interesting to me because I worked for a company in Rochester NY that was affiliated with DS-Max(Revolution Marketing, I dont know if it still exists). I left within five work days realizing how bad things were. I always thought that i was just at a bad branch. Who knew that things were this bad throughout the entire company.

Anyway, here is my story. I was 23 and one year removed from college with a Biology degree. I had just left a Microbiology job and responded to a newspaper ad similar to ones posted throughout this and came in with the impression that this would be temporary until I found a better option. I left soon after realizing that these people were all scumbags and that I was expected to work six 14 hours days a week.

Although I saw all of them happen I will save time by not referring to things such as Juice chants, Day of O, leader tactics and other things that are consistent throughout this board. This is some other stuff that I can add which I observed day to day.

During the first interview I was told that this would be ideal for a temporary job with 30 hours a week so I could look for other job's
Day 1(Day of O)-I was not told that I was walking door to door until I was in the car with my "leader" Luke on the way to his street. I previously had been told by the interviewer and the leader that I would be touring other offices and distribution centers.
Days 2&3-I heard people at all levels consistently berate every type of career such as Doctors, Teachers, Scientist as
"Bag's of S&%t"(this term was used instead of cows) who had no ambition.
Day 3-I heard a leader berate a kid for being negative after this kid called him upset because his CD players and CD's were stolen from his car.
He then told him to "get back out and sell his 10 Apps, no excuses!"
Day 4-I observed that The manager would pull the leaders in his office and scream at them at the top of his lungs telling them they they were doing a bad job and that they would become "Bags of S&%t" if they werent careful. These leader would then go out to "Atmosphere" with these positive attitude telling all of us how uplifting there meeting was and try to juice us for this day. A newer leader later admitted to me that this happened every day
Last day-I was told that my college degree was worthless, and that my hobby of weightlifting and that my being a Christian and going to church would only be a waste of time if I wanted to succeed in this field. Needless to say, I was gone after this.
-I was not payed my check that I was entitled to for three months. I ended up having to write a letter threatening Litigation

Keep in mind that I saw all of this in only five days. Why did I even stay that long? Dangling the carrot of (running your own business in six months really can have you deciding to "try it for one more day"

I have worked a couple of jobs since and no matter how bad a day I might have I can think of this experience and realize that things could be worse. What frustrates me is that I see five or six consistent ads in the paper and now realize that these are most likely similar businesses.

I doubt that every DS Max, Cydcor, and Granton based facility is run this poorly but if 10 percent of what is posted here is accurate anywhere, get out and get out now!

Well, let me just say that I have been out of "the business" for a long long time. I was in the clearance division under Mgr Chris H. We shared an office in Latham, NY (Albany area) with an Advertising division, the Mgr's name was Rich. Our Assisntant Mgr was John J. Whom I recently contacted after stumbling upon this forum. We remained friends after the office closed, but then lost touch over the last 8 yes. It was good talking to him and we will probably get the kids together in the near future. All of us needless to say are not in this business anymore. I can fully attest that most of the business is BS.

All of the stuff that is being said is true. Atmosphere in the AM and PM was monitored so new people did not neg each other out. There were also meetings every morning to motivate you so you would go out and sell. When you were training someone, you had to split your profit for the day even if they dropped only one piece of merch. You were encouraged to ALWAYS buy "days of ob" lunch. Never ever talk negative!!

We would unload the trucks when the merch came, on our own time for FREE while the manager would sit in his office and talk on the phone. We were made to feel that that is part of the business. Now I can honestly say I was pretty good at merching though. I consisantly "rang the bell" ($60 in profit for that day) and quite frequently "hit the gong" $100 for that day. I averaged 300-400 dollars a week. I was able to support myself and my gf at that time.

Don't get me wrong, our manager was really a good guy outside of the business. We would hang out, bbq, drink, smoke weed...etc.. He even admitted one day that one day he made like 1,000 dollars and just sat home and played SEGA and smoked weed, while we merched. Way to motivate the people that work for ya (sarcasim). I guess it gave us the hope that one day we would make a grand a day and not to anything for it.

I personally met Larry Tennenbaum and Darren Matloff. I have been to the rallies, I was tricked by all the BS. Luckily for me I did not go into the kind of debt that some people speak of, but I can see how it could happen. When you do well, you put on a pedastil, when you don't do good you are made to feel like your a piece of crap that does not have any self-control or motivation (hence cow vs rhino). When I saw the posts by the folks that were out of the Albany office, I had to post myself because that was where I worked.

I would like to add a positive spin to this though. I can't say that I fully regret the experience. It taught me how to be out-going and how to deal w/ people. It taught me how to motivate myself, and how to keep focused.

However, it I never became an owner, but I applied those things in another job I had. I sold Rainbow Vacuum cleaners for 3 yrs after DSM.

I made awesome money and was very good at getting people to like me. After all, I was in their home, trying to sell them a product that they aleady told me that they were not buying, but by the end of the demo, they were signing their name on the contract.

However, one day I just decided that sales was not for me. I did not like depending on other people spending money in order for me to pay my bills.

I went to school for computers and I am now a Network Tech for a huge Wireless company and I enjoy life. I work 12 hr shifts, but I get 15 days off a month to do whatever my little heart desires.

Ex-distributor out of Albany, NY

I read these posts and they all seem to boil down to 2 things. Some people are getting ripped off because of a company that designed to maximize on profits. Because they are designed with profits in mind all the little people get screwed. However Dont justifiy what is wrong by pointing the finger.

The truth is no owner will tell their contractors the truth. Did you know that the irs has a definition and requirements to be a 1099 contractor? How can you be responsible for paying some retrain for not making enough? YOU CANT!

If your owner tried to fire you... SHE CANT! because you are independant... go ahead ask your owner for proof of you paying those retrains off... she's got nothing cause the irs dosent recongise it as a biz expense. The truth is that is wrong.To accept sexual harrasment in the work place cause ive seen it before is barbaric and anyone who thinks its acceptable should be in jail.

Ds-max is a con. Designed to make money off the poor and the undereducated. I had a crew of 15. 3 leaders and doing 7000 2 weeks in a row...the owner thought i just wasnt ready enough cause she never gave me overrides...so if your current owner is responsible for you gettting overrides on YOUR BIZ and promotions in YOUR BIZ and the stuff you sell in YOUR BIZ and you who take on days of O ....with all that it seems less like YOUR BIZ and more like someone else's.

To the people that think we are all lazy slackers....I have a welding wholesale company i run outta my computer room. Twice a week I got B2B and sell it. When Im not doing that I sell Insurance.I run both outta my house, im making okay money(can never make too much) but still 3-4 times what i made as a leader. Yeah i had hundred dollar days s**t last thanksgiving me and my retrain brought in over $1,000 in one day!

In clearance too. But the truth remains the same this company is designed to rip people off...need a clue...Ds-max offices depend on new people to make them money.When the word is finally spread and people see it for the amway wanna be it is those people will walk... What are all you dsmax owners gonna do? YOU CANT SURVIVE WITHOUT CHEAP HELP. So you are all doomed.

I am and ex-employee, and had it not been for a car accident I would still be on the Innovage side of DS-Max. I was brought in under a great manager, who did tell me on my first interview what I would be doing. Yes there were hard days where I'd pay a day of O. and walk away with just enought cash to cover gas, but there were also days where I'd walk away with well over $100 in my pocket. And in the 3 months I was with the company I had customers that couldn't wait for me to come back, with very few to no complaints what so ever.

It is my belief that your experience dirrectly corrolates to the manager you came in under. Yes there are some that want nothing more than to gain in their welth only, but too there are those that are willing to help when ever needed. I.E. when I needed to take a trip to the hospital my boss was willing to come get me, take me, and pick me up, taking time out of his day to do so. I wasn't at all shuned by the manager, in fact I still get calls from him as well as his administrator, and in fact one of the guys he promoted even gets ahold of me.

So yeah, I did have one of those good experiences, and not I wouldn't rethink my decision what so ever, but everyone has to realize that you can't blanket a company like DS-Max by one bad experience from one manager of one division.

P.S. as for tax fraud, this is completely untrue a 1099 is used in any commission based employment. I worked for a large mortgage broker in the past as a loan originator and had a 1099, all records are kept, and all that gas money, food money (for more than 2 parties), trips expences, "new" clothes are a tax write off, just keep the d**n receipt. Oh yeah, the computer I'm now using was a tax write off, I got that money back at the end of the year, thX you DSM.

You say that if things aren't going well, then leave. Yet you also say that if you prove yourself in the face of adversity you will reap big rewards.

So which is it? At what point does someone leave?

We all know that the suggestion to leave is a sick form of reverse psychology. An owner knows who will never make it to leader, after all, they've already got their "hopefulls" stacked. But the "failures" are useful to them. They can be utilized in the lousy territories to cushion the owner's stroke. They get sent to places where an owner would never send their "prodigy", and risk them getting "negged out". But they still act as if the person whom they have no plans of promoting has the same chance as the person they are giving all the "juicy" territories, merch, and days of O to.

Once again, the truth is:

There are NOT 15,000 offices.

You will work 10 hour days.

You will likely make much less than the advertised "average"

Your hard work is a pre-requisite that qualifies you for a very minute chance of "real success"

Owners make little more than an entry level salaried certified position.

And Julian, I am happy for your honesty. You've shown why owners are willing to lie to advance themselves. Its the same as grifters justifying their livelyhood. But in the end, if you are caught, who goes to jail? The liar, or the naive?

Let me get this straight...because there were obvious problems at these places, it's the complaintants fault for staying? Let me remind you that tax fraud is still illegal. So is sexual harrasment. This board provides a great service in that it allows people to input their experiance with fraudulant companies as to alert the public. Your message is the exact type of fraud that these posts are trying to stop. YOU CANNOT BLAME THE VICTIM.Its not right and just goes to show that even EDS Office is ripe with corruption...

When i was at new dawn distortion.....hehe
linda bartons Ds-max sweatshop in liberty oh people would often have bad days in the field ie a car accident ect and it was her disposition that it was the persons fault for having a bad day, that they lost their attitude or their work ethic wasnt there...ITS CALLED COMPASSION. I didnt expect to get paid anything more but at least pay the differance from what my 1st day retrain made and the $50 she promised...nope instead it came outta my pocket...Do you make leaders pay for retrains? How about those handy dandy atmosphere meetings? GUESS WHAT YOU CANT MAKE ANYONE GO THERE. The irs has definitions of what an 1099 contractor is resposible for...and every ds max office ive been to from imperial imports in wyoming to the bullshit pittsburgh office(imagine 30 distributors and 3 cars...eeeck)do the same thing.I hope i can get ahold of your crew and let them know you cant deny them merch for not showing up for a meeting or to unload trucks or even to read the ida's in the morning...IF YOU RAN A REAL BIZ with contractors these things would not exist, so instead you all resort to cheap tricks and abusive behavior to control your contractors...IF only they all knew. If only there was a website to let them know...BINGO THIS IS IT. SO coming in here to stir the anti-max sediment is doing nothing but solidifying the concrete proof that ds-max and their mindless minions are FRAUDS!
sorry for the spelling mistakes....in a rush.

The realities are hard and truly only for some individuals. I do believe also that people are used to make money for a privaledged few.
On a daily basis we do use mentality bending techniques to cover the harsh reality of carrying bags of cheap imported rubbish from door to door, often supposedly new products being brought out of storage year after year. With out the lure of a pot of gold at the end of a well trodden rainbow then no one in their right mind would dedicate a hefty 75 hours a week minimum to a commision only job where by large chunk of time is spent in a manner you can not earn from ,(atmos, training etc). As a leader we are forced to pay money out of our own pocket for other people "training",this seems against a self employeed status,which convienently provides a legal protection for DSM,(a shrewd move).

These points let down a company that does give to many a certain level of training that if adapted and used independantly can be used very successfully. I have friends that have since leaving the company benefitted from showing more importance to positive attitude.

Unfortunatley as shown above by the many comments made by fellow wanna be managers, the systems used are very good at brain washing so that some do have their own DSM language. For those of us that can still see from outside the box it is slighlty differant. I see what is going on but see that i have a chance to make a lot of money. My advantage is that i see the game for what it is and use it, hence i am also succesful. I do use false hope on individuals that i know will not be able to fully succeed. The reason i do this is purely for production (turnover for those non DSM linguists),crew size and training fodder for my more promising leaders. Harsh, but i know i need to do this to get ahead.

DSM shows many companies a lesson in budget management, again another good skill to have in life. Every way cash can be saved is found.
I find it ironic, that for almost all,we are driven to live in squalor while in pursuence of grandure. Most will fail, including managers, i use managers rather than owner as there is no such thing.( An owner cant be dispossed of what he owns, even under the spin of "retrain").
In life people like to spend money.We entertain and save people having to go to shops. All businesses are made to make some people very wealthy, and the ethics of many are debatable from tobacco sales to other harmful products / services that can be sold. If some thing can be sold then there will be some one to make money from it. The founders are clever and hit on a great money maker, selling to not only customers in their shops but also the image to those that work for them.

For those 15000 managers there is a scary quantity of "sheep, "25 to 35 per manager? They provide an essential level of turnover at minimal overhead. Who would not want to be in on that management game?Although i have seen managers disspossed, some do go on to higher levels. Of the managers removed,many have been honest,hard working people.

More often than not, they are also brainwashed. For those that can encompass the sheer ruthlessness then higher plains beckon.

The way i see it, the chance to make a lot of money is no different here than working in one of the many other jobs that cause a group of people to be unhappy about some thing. The reality is that both sides are on the whole correct.

Unhappy guys make a negative comments, money makers defend the business. You always need more workers than bosses, normally people are hired in to a position, DSM let you have a chance to use or be used. We all know that by signing the Independant Dealer agreement we are signing away any link to them if we mess up while also agreeing to do as they say if we want to pursue our chance. Those that are bitter have every right as they are the ones that now realise that the bite of the cake was not as good as it was promised. Those defending make their lively hood from it and in some cases are brainwashed. To quote a managers statement,,,"it's the nature of the beast!"

ps no time to check grammar as ive only just got in at 10pm with impacts to right!

I'm back for another, albeit abbreviated round of stirring up you DS Max haters. Once again, I was in Advertising, so I can only speak on behalf of what I saw and experienced for six months in that division (Granton). People are talking about making no money, or $40 per week, or even less. Are you imbeciles? If you are not selling or setting the pace, you won't have money, won't be very happy, and certainly won't be able to build a crew. THAT IS YOUR CUE TO HIT THE ROAD. DO SOMETHING ELSE. If you chose to stay and suffer, and not perform, and run your life amok, that's YOUR decision. I've made some strong statements on this thread, and no one has ever appropriately defended the idea of free will. Many have stated that they came and went before things hit the fan and they were soaked in debt or estranged from loved ones or whatever other nightmares you all hiss about. I applaud those who were able to get out when things got rough. Eureka! God blessed you with common sense. This is not a condescending attack on anyone, just the straightforward assertion that if things didn't look right, then stay away. Mismanagement, deceit, fraud, harassment, squalor, poverty, violence, danger, disease, etc. are all bad, right? So if any of you felt they were present, let alone rampant, "Say no, then go, and tell someone you trust" is what the old adage says about drugs. That was directed at 10 year olds. We are adults, young and naive perhaps, myself included, but give me a break. Glad to have left when I did, looking back nine months after the fact, the business is flawed, like all others. Only the strong (make that only the impervious to pain, grueling days, and self sacrifice) survive in this biz. For some the reward is great. For others there is no reward, just grief. You decide, "Should I stay or should I go." And with that, I am gone..

I am currently involved in a dsmax like company. we have the 5 and 8 steps, the "hey guys", the juice, all of that garbage. im am currently looking for a new job. i was promoted in a couple weeks into leader, everything seemed wonderful. now im hungry and in debt, making 50 bux or less a week. this job is a joke and is finacially damaging to anyone who is involved. i went to the job for oppertunity, not to suffer. im currently in severe debt, and its not because i have a bad attitude. this job is a joke and a scam and i advise anyone who is involved or ever comes across the "400-600" dollar a week sports and entertainment ad in the paper not to do what i did. it will take me months to fix the damages to my life, credit, and self because of the system

p.s. stephen from albany, i would love to chat with you to see if you were involved in the same office.

I am currently involved in a dsmax like company. we have the 5 and 8 steps, the "hey guys", the juice, all of that garbage. im am currently looking for a new job. i was promoted in a couple weeks into leader, everything seemed wonderful. now im hungry and in debt, making 50 bux or less a week. this job is a joke and is finacially damaging to anyone who is involved. i went to the job for oppertunity, not to suffer. im currently in severe debt, and its not because i have a bad attitude. this job is a joke and a scam and i advise anyone who is involved or ever comes across the "400-600" dollar a week sports and entertainment ad in the paper not to do what i did. it will take me months to fix the damages to my life, credit, and self because of the system

p.s. stephen from albany, i would love to chat with you to see if you were involved in the same office.

I am currently involved in a dsmax like company. we have the 5 and 8 steps, the "hey guys", the juice, all of that garbage. im am currently looking for a new job. i was promoted in a couple weeks into leader, everything seemed wonderful. now im hungry and in debt, making 50 bux or less a week. this job is a joke and is finacially damaging to anyone who is involved. i went to the job for oppertunity, not to suffer. im currently in severe debt, and its not because i have a bad attitude. this job is a joke and a scam and i advise anyone who is involved or ever comes across the "400-600" dollar a week sports and entertainment ad in the paper not to do what i did. it will take me months to fix the damages to my life, credit, and self because of the system

p.s. stephen from albany, i would love to chat with you to see if you were involved in the same office.

I am currently involved in a dsmax like company. we have the 5 and 8 steps, the "hey guys", the juice, all of that garbage. im am currently looking for a new job. i was promoted in a couple weeks into leader, everything seemed wonderful. now im hungry and in debt, making 50 bux or less a week. this job is a joke and is finacially damaging to anyone who is involved. i went to the job for oppertunity, not to suffer. im currently in severe debt, and its not because i have a bad attitude. this job is a joke and a scam and i advise anyone who is involved or ever comes across the "400-600" dollar a week sports and entertainment ad in the paper not to do what i did. it will take me months to fix the damages to my life, credit, and self because of the system

p.s. stephen from albany, i would love to chat with you to see if you were involved in the same office.

This stupid a*s company has been around for at least 10 years right? Why haven't they gone public? And actually when I was still brainwashed over there, I heard that idiot CYDCOR CEO, Gary whatever his name is say that they are "in negotiations to have SOME parts of the company go public"...I can't wait till that happens, so that we can send their sorry asses to jail!!!

Oh and by the way...for those of you that never made it past leadership because they made you believe that you can't "build a team"...they call us SALES WHORES. But I know that they will keep the SALES WHORES for as long as they last cause, "they bring money to the office".

Well the sad thing is that they have opened CYDCOR UNIVERSITY, in hopes of teaching this as an accredited coarse in University's and Colleges. God bless anyone who gets a hold of an ad, and answers it. Wow, that would be a good suspense thriller!...oh wait, it was.

This stupid a*s company has been around for at least 10 years right? Why haven't they gone public? And actually when I was still brainwashed over there, I heard that idiot CYDCOR CEO, Gary whatever his name is say that they are "in negotiations to have SOME parts of the company go public"...I can't wait till that happens, so that we can send their sorry asses to jail!!!

Oh and by the way...for those of you that never made it past leadership because they made you believe that you can't "build a team"...they call us SALES WHORES. But I know that they will keep the SALES WHORES for as long as they last cause, "they bring money to the office".

Well the sad thing is that they have opened CYDCOR UNIVERSITY, in hopes of teaching this as an accredited coarse in University's and Colleges. God bless anyone who gets a hold of an ad, and answers it. Wow, that would be a good suspense thriller!...oh wait, it was.

Here's another example of some dimwitted
underachiever passing himself off as a "reporter" and of course promoting this scam of selling cheap merch and scamming poor hardworking folks on both ends of the situation in a 'get-rich-quick' scheme.

No one gets rich quick without hard work.
Please get that through your thick skulls.

As to "Brent"?:
Some 'reporter'! Your sentence structures, atrocious spelling and grammar indicate you were anything BUT a reporter! Go back and get your GED.

You supporters of this con-game of inverted salesmanship will eventually come to an abrupt halt when the IRS catches up with you...
hopefully SOON. But by then I expect that the true leaders of this network will have already retired into hiding somewhere in luxury out of the reach of laws of extradition and the subordinate 'management' will all be effectively 'hung out to dry' to 'face the music'....

It's coming folks! to a theater near you!

I was in the "business" for a year. Built a team and even ran a deal. Everything was great but I had no idea of what I was doing I had no help from my promoting manager who was a new V.P. Good guy but left me out to dry. I even promoted an outside deal with no idea of how to help him out. I ended up losing thousands of dollars and a ton of friendships because of DS-F*!@*ing Max. I even went overseas. After a year and a half in the field, two years running a deal, and helping out a lot of dimwitted europeans, THEY WANTED ME TO GO BACK IN THE FIELD. They use you for their own gain PERIOD. DON'T DO IT. Answer a simple "CASH PAID DAILY" ad and get screwed for days, months, or years.

I was in the "business" for a year. Built a team and even ran a deal. Everything was great but I had no idea of what I was doing I had no help from my promoting manager who was a new V.P. Good guy but left me out to dry. I even promoted an outside deal with no idea of how to help him out. I ended up losing thousands of dollars and a ton of friendships because of DS-F*!@*ing Max. I even went overseas. After a year and a half in the field, two years running a deal, and helping out a lot of dimwitted europeans, THEY WANTED ME TO GO BACK IN THE FIELD. They use you for their own gain PERIOD. DON'T DO IT. Answer a simple "CASH PAID DAILY" ad and get screwed for days, months, or years.

I was in the "business" for a year. Built a team and even ran a deal. Everything was great but I had no idea of what I was doing I had no help from my promoting manager who was a new V.P. Good guy but left me out to dry. I even promoted an outside deal with no idea of how to help him out. I ended up losing thousands of dollars and a ton of friendships because of DS-F*!@*ing Max. I even went overseas. After a year and a half in the field, two years running a deal, and helping out a lot of dimwitted europeans, THEY WANTED ME TO GO BACK IN THE FIELD. They use you for their own gain PERIOD. DON'T DO IT. Answer a simple "CASH PAID DAILY" ad and get screwed for days, months, or years.

For all the defenders of DS-MAX and all of it's deritives I pose a question:

Why on none of the DS-MAX (et al) sites is NO contact information given? Why, if DS-MAX has NOTHING TO HIDE, can we not have a CONTACTS page, business address etc.

I am curious why any reputable company would seem to hide their location and identity? Certainly no other company with which I would do business does that. I can go on the net and find the mailing address and phone number of the corporate headquarters, local branch, distributers, etc..

DS-MAX goes to great pains to hide from view. I know this as I have dined with Murray, Larry and Avi. I know the drill. I know that you have taken "savings", failed to submit proper reports/accounting to the I.R.S., and in general, fostered a belief that theft is okay (so long as no one can catch you).

So, guys, keep moving the target. Sooner or later you will run out of places to run.

Hello Naomi.
I just have to tell you taht since you were only with the company for a week and a half I am not going to spend my time going over every little detail of how this works or that works in that company. I really want to try to get that stuff out of my head. I saw this site and I thought that I could help someone from making a big mistake by not working for that company. So nothing personal but I can't continue to sit here and answer your questions. You worked less a month their so you have no idea what is really going on. So for me to explain it to you would take me a long time and I hope you understand that.

As for you Raymond, I am not here to amuse you. I have a feeling that you are an owner or a leader. So to you Raymond you just have to buy my book or continue to read this site and hope that I put a story on it the next time I write on it.
Ok, here is one story for you Raymond. All of the guys in the house go out on a Saturday night and get drunk at a bar. We all come back to the merch house about 2 a.m. in the morning and the party is still going strong. Then people started to pass out one by one. Then one guy passed out on a chair and someone that I will not name decided to shave this guys eye brows. So he shaves both of his eyes brows.

Sunday morning comes and the guy who shaved the kids eyes leaves to go to his parents house and the other kid who's eyes got shaved wakes up and sees what has happen to him. From that point on all hell breaks lose. That kid destroys the persons room who shaved his eyes. I could not believe the mess that was left in my bedroom. I came home and my room was destroyed. However, when Monday came and we had a leaders meeting at 9:30 a.m. this kid had no eyebrows on his face and it was the funniest thing in the world. Then a girl painted in a pair of eyebrows for him.

However, that it rained and all of the eye liner ran down his face and he had all black shot all over him when he came back from the field that night. My manager thought it was the funniest thing he ever saw and he called Paul Gaudreau also thought it was funny because that guys manager made a phone call to Paul to complain about me. So my manager told me that if anything like this happens again I would be fired. However, on the side we sat back and laughed are asses off. So Raymond not a bad story.

Now if you were a owner and anothe owners guy did that to one of your top leaders, what would you do? Now I know this is not a web site were we will be going back and forth so I hope that you will answer this one and have some kind of good question for me to even bother answering back to you. The reason I say this is because I believe that you are and owner or leader in this business. If you are I would love to hear your story Raymond. So don't be shy tell us your story.

Paralegal

And what types of things happened in the Merch Houses, and what happened that would turn our heads.

I think we're all very curious.

Thanks,

Hi Jay, thanks for your response.

You have to maintain 5 leaders on your team? Do managers make up this rule, or is this a DS-Max rule.

When I started there, I was an intern, with the intentions of going back to school. Since I was an intern, and they knew I was going to leave, why did my leader keep me.

And it seems very costly to have to build and maintain a 5 person team... Don't you have to pay each new hire 150 dollars out of your pocket just for their retrains?

Anyways, if you did write a book about this, I would buy it. Although, there is a website that has most of the information about the company, and a life story of someone in the business.

[DELETED]

Very interesting!

Hello Naomi. My name is Jay the guy who got screwed. The reason why it was so hard to move up and get promoted was because you had to maintain 5 leaders on your team at all times. So if one of your leaders quit you had to get someone else up to leadership and then hit your 2 week quota. In my office my team had to hit 800 pieces of merch each week for me to get promoted to assistant manager.

So that was 1600 pieces of merch at $5 dollars a piece for my manager. So in 2 weeks my manager made $8000.00 dollars off of my team while I made s**t. My manager gave me no over ride for those 2 weeks and for my whole time as assistant manager. See Naomi in my office I had to have 4 leaders plus myself and 3 distrubers. However each one of my leaders had to have a leader on their team also. The reason for this was because it showed that I could teach the "SYSTEM" to other people as my manager says. So as you can see I ended up having about 12 people on my team. It only took me 9 months to do this but I have seen people take 2 years to get 5 people on their team.

I have also seen people build a team with 12 to 15 people and go for their quota and the first week get it and then the second week half his team quit because they wanted to get back at him. So I have seen a lot of bull s**t in this business. I was in the advertising division. When you read these articles keep in mind that people of DS-MAX create this system and the people who teach it learned it from them and they pass it down to everyone that answers an ad. So I don't care about and owner who says that it is a owner that is bad. The whole system is wrong for the work force. This company ruins people's lives. Some people can say that it made them all kinds of money and gave them a life. However, what did they do to get that life and how many people did they hurt to get that life.

The stories I could tell you people would turn your heads. I was in this business for 3 1/2 years and lived in a Merch house for 2 1/2 of them. I lived with 10 people or more at some times that were in the business and some of the things that happen in this house and in this office would blow your mind. However, if I was to tell you all of the stories I would need about 150 to 200 pages to tell you all about them. Maybe, what I will do is write a book about my life as a door to door sales man in the DS-Max company. If you would buy the book please let me know when you write on this site. As for now Maomi that is why it is so hard to move up in this company and get promoted. I hope that this helped you a lot more then the answer that someone else gave you. Just remember if you ever call a company and they answer the phone and say "Advertising" it is a part of DS-Max.

Paralegal

It is so hard to move becasue you are lying to new members telling them it is so easy to move up. YOu have them go out from 9am-10pm in the field walking around and they see they dont get paid for the work. SO eventually they leave before they get promoted.

Hi, I don't have anything against the company. I was just curious though.

Could someone explain the process of moving up to management. Why is it so difficult?

From what I understand, you have to get 5 new people up to leadership...

I've heard of stories how people spend years in leadership, never moving up to management.

Anyways, I worked for the company for a little bit over a week, but I got another job, and took that instead.

It was an interesting experience, but from reading this report, I'm glad I left.

I have been really interested in all that is being said on this topic. I have heard from owners, employees, ex-employees, and so on. I am an ex-employee. I am going to tell you what I saw and let you think about it.

I was part of WESTCO here in Sacramento under manager/Owner A. She left the business one night after I already left the company. I called a friend that still worked there and from what he told me, she stole money and took off. I have no proff of this, but it makes sense. I never got paid for 2/3 of the units I dropped and I was a CENTURY CLub member on a road trip (that means I dropped 10+ units, it sould have been 1000.00 payment, I got like 200.00)

So it seems like my mgr was stealing our money.
I wondered why. She was a mgr, she should have a lot of money. But that makes sense now why she could not replace her computer monitor when it broke or why she shared a crappy appartment with other people.

Now to the cancer..when I told them I had to leave becasue of my mom's cancer, they pretyy much shuned me in the face. I did not have what it took to do well.

Well a few montsh after HELL (working for DSM) I got really sick (thank god I got a new job with health) because at 25 I was told I had colon cancer. So basically I was doing my door to door sales all this time with colon cancer. And yes I had symtoms, but I could not go to the dr. So if anyone dares tells me that I do not have what it takes to make it in that crappy company look me up and we will have a chat. You try to walk door to door from 9:00-8:30pm every frickin day with colon cancer and then you can tell me that I do not have the right stuff to make it.

Come on I dare you, This is just making me really mad, DSM almost made me loose the last I had with my mom, and could have killed me becasue I was stupid and believed that this wealth could be made in a short amount of time. To hell with DSM and my Mgr A. I hope you get caught with the money and get tossed in jail where you can think about what you did. I also hope that the state and federal government would review DSM and take any kind of action to stop this horrible company.

Sorry I went off and sorry it was not more proffessional, I was just really hurt by them and I can not think straight about them.

My name is Jay Carvlho. I started in the Providence office in Rhode Island. My manager was Chris Demanski and my V.P. was Mark Keran. As I started out Chris was a unblievable at promoting the business to people. He could sell anything to anybody and he sold the business to me. I made it to management in 9 months.

For those 9 months I slept 4 til 5 hours a day. I was in the office at 8:30 a.m. and left at 11:30 p.m. to go back to the "Merch House" where we had about 10 people living that was in the business. As I was reading all of these articles it bought back a lot of funny memories and a lot of memories that I don't want to remember. See Chris promised me the world.

So After I got promoted we packed up and went to New Jersey to take over a office that was being run into the ground by a bad manager as he put it. SO once we got to New Jersey I had to start all over again and build another crew to get my own office. I left all my guys in Providence because Chris promoted a girl named Kelly Pragle to manger in that office and she need people. SO I left 10 people behind so she could have an office to run. Chris put in my head that when we got to New Jersey we would build that office up and he would do the same for me. So I said what the heck I will take one for the team and also Mark Keran was also coming to promote us and throw around his money. However, once we got their we went to the office and it was a little box.

So Chris decided to move us to a better place. However, he had to rebuild the whole office over. So we rent one out for the time being and we ended up getting thrown out of that one because of the way Chris is. Chris thinks that he is god. You should have seen this owner. He threw his money around like nothing. The way he wrote it off was when everyone came in at night and settle up whatever was left over in cash he would keep and he would replace it with receipts. I could not belive how in ran his business. Also as a assistant manager I was suppose to receive and override on my crew, ya what override!! OK, now here is where it gets good. Granton puts together a new division. If anyone remembers the DARE Program. So Chris without even asking me if I would be interested he tells me that I have ne choice to go t california and learn with these 5 people that I have selected or leave the business. So what was I suppose to do.

I already invested 2 years in the business. SO he gave me $400 dollars and one of my leaders and I jumped on a bus and went cross country to California to Jeremy Moiser's office and 4 other leaders drove their.

Now remeber I am in California with no money because I have never receive and override on my crew for over 10 months. Basically Chris owned me about $8000 dollars. However, that was not what I wanted to do. I wanted to run an advertising office. I remember at one time the Balitmore office got shut down and we could have moved right in however, MR. Mark Keran gave it to Chris C. from Viringa Beach. That office was a office that could have been perfect for someone just starting out. To finish my story I come back from California and open my office in New Jersey.

Now when I get back to New Jersey I can't wait to get back and sleep in my bed because I have been in a hotel for 2 months. However, Chris gets thrown out of the house that we were renting and all of my beautiful stuff that I worked hard to buy was all in garage in one of the leaders apartments. Also Chris is in Chicago,ILL hiding behind his V.P. Mark Keran again because he F%%% up again on running an office. SO I get to my office which I am renting out from another owner and I don't have a penny to my name because my promoting manager took off and never paid me a dime. Also I have no where to live so me and my 5 leaders are in a hotel in New Jersey trying to build an office from the DARE PROGRAM. Before I knew it 4 months went by and I was $4000 dollars in negatives. So please some explain to me what I did wrong?

Also to Dereck Colortine or" DC ADVERTISING" thanks for lying to me for those three years I new you in Boston. Do you remember me and BOB Iovino from the Providence office. Also to the other V.P. like Mike in Boston (Winners advertising) Jesse Young. All I can say now is that I was tricked. I put my faith in people that only cared about money. That is why all the owners of DS-Max are not nice people because they will use anyone to get what they want or to go where they want. So to "mo" in Cal. don't tell me that owners don't use people because every owner in this business uses their people because they have to if they want to go places in this business. The reason I can say that is because I was one of them Also to anyone I hurt out their I am so sorry for that. I was so mixed up in the bull s**t that it was like a drug it just took over my whole life. No matter who you where you could not talk sense into me about quitting this business and what happen is that I am in debt and I hurt a lot of people.

CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.

For you Chris you need to grow up and realize how many people you hurt and lied to to try to make yourself successful..

Paralegal

My name is Jay Carvlho. I started in the Providence office in Rhode Island. My manager was Chris Demanski and my V.P. was Mark Keran. As I started out Chris was a unblievable at promoting the business to people. He could sell anything to anybody and he sold the business to me. I made it to management in 9 months.

For those 9 months I slept 4 til 5 hours a day. I was in the office at 8:30 a.m. and left at 11:30 p.m. to go back to the "Merch House" where we had about 10 people living that was in the business. As I was reading all of these articles it bought back a lot of funny memories and a lot of memories that I don't want to remember. See Chris promised me the world.

So After I got promoted we packed up and went to New Jersey to take over a office that was being run into the ground by a bad manager as he put it. SO once we got to New Jersey I had to start all over again and build another crew to get my own office. I left all my guys in Providence because Chris promoted a girl named Kelly Pragle to manger in that office and she need people. SO I left 10 people behind so she could have an office to run. Chris put in my head that when we got to New Jersey we would build that office up and he would do the same for me. So I said what the heck I will take one for the team and also Mark Keran was also coming to promote us and throw around his money. However, once we got their we went to the office and it was a little box.

So Chris decided to move us to a better place. However, he had to rebuild the whole office over. So we rent one out for the time being and we ended up getting thrown out of that one because of the way Chris is. Chris thinks that he is god. You should have seen this owner. He threw his money around like nothing. The way he wrote it off was when everyone came in at night and settle up whatever was left over in cash he would keep and he would replace it with receipts. I could not belive how in ran his business. Also as a assistant manager I was suppose to receive and override on my crew, ya what override!! OK, now here is where it gets good. Granton puts together a new division. If anyone remembers the DARE Program. So Chris without even asking me if I would be interested he tells me that I have ne choice to go t california and learn with these 5 people that I have selected or leave the business. So what was I suppose to do.

I already invested 2 years in the business. SO he gave me $400 dollars and one of my leaders and I jumped on a bus and went cross country to California to Jeremy Moiser's office and 4 other leaders drove their.

Now remeber I am in California with no money because I have never receive and override on my crew for over 10 months. Basically Chris owned me about $8000 dollars. However, that was not what I wanted to do. I wanted to run an advertising office. I remember at one time the Balitmore office got shut down and we could have moved right in however, MR. Mark Keran gave it to Chris C. from Viringa Beach. That office was a office that could have been perfect for someone just starting out. To finish my story I come back from California and open my office in New Jersey.

Now when I get back to New Jersey I can't wait to get back and sleep in my bed because I have been in a hotel for 2 months. However, Chris gets thrown out of the house that we were renting and all of my beautiful stuff that I worked hard to buy was all in garage in one of the leaders apartments. Also Chris is in Chicago,ILL hiding behind his V.P. Mark Keran again because he F%%% up again on running an office. SO I get to my office which I am renting out from another owner and I don't have a penny to my name because my promoting manager took off and never paid me a dime. Also I have no where to live so me and my 5 leaders are in a hotel in New Jersey trying to build an office from the DARE PROGRAM. Before I knew it 4 months went by and I was $4000 dollars in negatives. So please some explain to me what I did wrong?

Also to Dereck Colortine or" DC ADVERTISING" thanks for lying to me for those three years I new you in Boston. Do you remember me and BOB Iovino from the Providence office. Also to the other V.P. like Mike in Boston (Winners advertising) Jesse Young. All I can say now is that I was tricked. I put my faith in people that only cared about money. That is why all the owners of DS-Max are not nice people because they will use anyone to get what they want or to go where they want. So to "mo" in Cal. don't tell me that owners don't use people because every owner in this business uses their people because they have to if they want to go places in this business. The reason I can say that is because I was one of them Also to anyone I hurt out their I am so sorry for that. I was so mixed up in the bull s**t that it was like a drug it just took over my whole life. No matter who you where you could not talk sense into me about quitting this business and what happen is that I am in debt and I hurt a lot of people.

CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.

For you Chris you need to grow up and realize how many people you hurt and lied to to try to make yourself successful..

Paralegal

My name is Jay Carvlho. I started in the Providence office in Rhode Island. My manager was Chris Demanski and my V.P. was Mark Keran. As I started out Chris was a unblievable at promoting the business to people. He could sell anything to anybody and he sold the business to me. I made it to management in 9 months.

For those 9 months I slept 4 til 5 hours a day. I was in the office at 8:30 a.m. and left at 11:30 p.m. to go back to the "Merch House" where we had about 10 people living that was in the business. As I was reading all of these articles it bought back a lot of funny memories and a lot of memories that I don't want to remember. See Chris promised me the world.

So After I got promoted we packed up and went to New Jersey to take over a office that was being run into the ground by a bad manager as he put it. SO once we got to New Jersey I had to start all over again and build another crew to get my own office. I left all my guys in Providence because Chris promoted a girl named Kelly Pragle to manger in that office and she need people. SO I left 10 people behind so she could have an office to run. Chris put in my head that when we got to New Jersey we would build that office up and he would do the same for me. So I said what the heck I will take one for the team and also Mark Keran was also coming to promote us and throw around his money. However, once we got their we went to the office and it was a little box.

So Chris decided to move us to a better place. However, he had to rebuild the whole office over. So we rent one out for the time being and we ended up getting thrown out of that one because of the way Chris is. Chris thinks that he is god. You should have seen this owner. He threw his money around like nothing. The way he wrote it off was when everyone came in at night and settle up whatever was left over in cash he would keep and he would replace it with receipts. I could not belive how in ran his business. Also as a assistant manager I was suppose to receive and override on my crew, ya what override!! OK, now here is where it gets good. Granton puts together a new division. If anyone remembers the DARE Program. So Chris without even asking me if I would be interested he tells me that I have ne choice to go t california and learn with these 5 people that I have selected or leave the business. So what was I suppose to do.

I already invested 2 years in the business. SO he gave me $400 dollars and one of my leaders and I jumped on a bus and went cross country to California to Jeremy Moiser's office and 4 other leaders drove their.

Now remeber I am in California with no money because I have never receive and override on my crew for over 10 months. Basically Chris owned me about $8000 dollars. However, that was not what I wanted to do. I wanted to run an advertising office. I remember at one time the Balitmore office got shut down and we could have moved right in however, MR. Mark Keran gave it to Chris C. from Viringa Beach. That office was a office that could have been perfect for someone just starting out. To finish my story I come back from California and open my office in New Jersey.

Now when I get back to New Jersey I can't wait to get back and sleep in my bed because I have been in a hotel for 2 months. However, Chris gets thrown out of the house that we were renting and all of my beautiful stuff that I worked hard to buy was all in garage in one of the leaders apartments. Also Chris is in Chicago,ILL hiding behind his V.P. Mark Keran again because he F%%% up again on running an office. SO I get to my office which I am renting out from another owner and I don't have a penny to my name because my promoting manager took off and never paid me a dime. Also I have no where to live so me and my 5 leaders are in a hotel in New Jersey trying to build an office from the DARE PROGRAM. Before I knew it 4 months went by and I was $4000 dollars in negatives. So please some explain to me what I did wrong?

Also to Dereck Colortine or" DC ADVERTISING" thanks for lying to me for those three years I new you in Boston. Do you remember me and BOB Iovino from the Providence office. Also to the other V.P. like Mike in Boston (Winners advertising) Jesse Young. All I can say now is that I was tricked. I put my faith in people that only cared about money. That is why all the owners of DS-Max are not nice people because they will use anyone to get what they want or to go where they want. So to "mo" in Cal. don't tell me that owners don't use people because every owner in this business uses their people because they have to if they want to go places in this business. The reason I can say that is because I was one of them Also to anyone I hurt out their I am so sorry for that. I was so mixed up in the bull s**t that it was like a drug it just took over my whole life. No matter who you where you could not talk sense into me about quitting this business and what happen is that I am in debt and I hurt a lot of people.

CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.

For you Chris you need to grow up and realize how many people you hurt and lied to to try to make yourself successful..

Paralegal

My name is Jay Carvlho. I started in the Providence office in Rhode Island. My manager was Chris Demanski and my V.P. was Mark Keran. As I started out Chris was a unblievable at promoting the business to people. He could sell anything to anybody and he sold the business to me. I made it to management in 9 months.

For those 9 months I slept 4 til 5 hours a day. I was in the office at 8:30 a.m. and left at 11:30 p.m. to go back to the "Merch House" where we had about 10 people living that was in the business. As I was reading all of these articles it bought back a lot of funny memories and a lot of memories that I don't want to remember. See Chris promised me the world.

So After I got promoted we packed up and went to New Jersey to take over a office that was being run into the ground by a bad manager as he put it. SO once we got to New Jersey I had to start all over again and build another crew to get my own office. I left all my guys in Providence because Chris promoted a girl named Kelly Pragle to manger in that office and she need people. SO I left 10 people behind so she could have an office to run. Chris put in my head that when we got to New Jersey we would build that office up and he would do the same for me. So I said what the heck I will take one for the team and also Mark Keran was also coming to promote us and throw around his money. However, once we got their we went to the office and it was a little box.

So Chris decided to move us to a better place. However, he had to rebuild the whole office over. So we rent one out for the time being and we ended up getting thrown out of that one because of the way Chris is. Chris thinks that he is god. You should have seen this owner. He threw his money around like nothing. The way he wrote it off was when everyone came in at night and settle up whatever was left over in cash he would keep and he would replace it with receipts. I could not belive how in ran his business. Also as a assistant manager I was suppose to receive and override on my crew, ya what override!! OK, now here is where it gets good. Granton puts together a new division. If anyone remembers the DARE Program. So Chris without even asking me if I would be interested he tells me that I have ne choice to go t california and learn with these 5 people that I have selected or leave the business. So what was I suppose to do.

I already invested 2 years in the business. SO he gave me $400 dollars and one of my leaders and I jumped on a bus and went cross country to California to Jeremy Moiser's office and 4 other leaders drove their.

Now remeber I am in California with no money because I have never receive and override on my crew for over 10 months. Basically Chris owned me about $8000 dollars. However, that was not what I wanted to do. I wanted to run an advertising office. I remember at one time the Balitmore office got shut down and we could have moved right in however, MR. Mark Keran gave it to Chris C. from Viringa Beach. That office was a office that could have been perfect for someone just starting out. To finish my story I come back from California and open my office in New Jersey.

Now when I get back to New Jersey I can't wait to get back and sleep in my bed because I have been in a hotel for 2 months. However, Chris gets thrown out of the house that we were renting and all of my beautiful stuff that I worked hard to buy was all in garage in one of the leaders apartments. Also Chris is in Chicago,ILL hiding behind his V.P. Mark Keran again because he F%%% up again on running an office. SO I get to my office which I am renting out from another owner and I don't have a penny to my name because my promoting manager took off and never paid me a dime. Also I have no where to live so me and my 5 leaders are in a hotel in New Jersey trying to build an office from the DARE PROGRAM. Before I knew it 4 months went by and I was $4000 dollars in negatives. So please some explain to me what I did wrong?

Also to Dereck Colortine or" DC ADVERTISING" thanks for lying to me for those three years I new you in Boston. Do you remember me and BOB Iovino from the Providence office. Also to the other V.P. like Mike in Boston (Winners advertising) Jesse Young. All I can say now is that I was tricked. I put my faith in people that only cared about money. That is why all the owners of DS-Max are not nice people because they will use anyone to get what they want or to go where they want. So to "mo" in Cal. don't tell me that owners don't use people because every owner in this business uses their people because they have to if they want to go places in this business. The reason I can say that is because I was one of them Also to anyone I hurt out their I am so sorry for that. I was so mixed up in the bull s**t that it was like a drug it just took over my whole life. No matter who you where you could not talk sense into me about quitting this business and what happen is that I am in debt and I hurt a lot of people.

CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.

For you Chris you need to grow up and realize how many people you hurt and lied to to try to make yourself successful..

Paralegal

Think about it current leaders...

Your managers teach you ways not to neg out new people, and get them to stay, because you need 5 people for leadership.

But your managers are doing the same thing. They need 5 leader for management to move up, so they'll do and say anything to keep you.

This company is nothing more than a basic cult, that in sociological terms deals with the "routinization of the charismatic leader."

The whole leadership process was designed to turn you into a cold-hearted person, who knows how to manipulate people inside and out.

The parent companies (granton, cydcor, ds-max) hates it when people go through the process of leadership quickly (in 8-10 months) and they make sure this is so difficult that only 1 in 50,000 actually do it. They want you to spend as much time as possible as a leader, so you become a full-blown con artist.

I was a sociology and psychology major in college, and I know from studying cults and human behavior that the leadership process was meant to turn you into a cold-hearted person.

Look- most leaders spend about 1 and half years to 2 years going door-to-door, business-to-business, taking rejection after rejection.

This turns you into someone that hates people.

Then, you have to pay people money out of your own pocket, meaning that a majority of leaders have to live off of 200-300 dollars a week, barely enough money to survive.

This makes you money-hungry and desperate.

Your manager teaches you to ways to manipulate your customers and your trainees to keep them. If people leave, you call them a cow, and try to say you're a rhino for staying. Leaders for most of these companies start out as very talented individuals, but the whole leadership process turns you into a low-life con artist.

Here's where you develop a manipulative personality.

So... after 16-24 months of doing this, you turn into a manipulative, money hungry, individual that hates people.

Now, you're at management.

After all this hard work, you realize that as a manager, you really only make 35,000 dollars a year, after all the money that the parent company holds on you (essentially because they know that your company, or a related child company of yours will one day go bankrupt).

You realize that you have to spend 5-7 years of your life working 80 hour weeks, so you can one day move up to regional manager.

Everytime you promote someone new to management, they take your best leaders and salespeople.

And you have to spend all these years lying to all your leaders, people who respect you and look at you as a parental figure.

Even managers that are truly charismatic and still like people, have to lie to the people under them just so they won't quit.

Have you noticed how all leaders are good-hearted people, but it's the managers that seem to be con artists. (From my psychological reasoning) it's because the transition from leader to asst. manager/manager, it's here that you realize that your manager was completely lying to you, that you aren't even close to being financially independant, and that you have to lie 10 times more than you did as a leader. And all these things combined with all of the things you went through as a leader turn you into a real scum-bag.

Also, most of the good-hearted managers quit, because they know how much they have to lie to leaders and everyone else, and the parent companies usually make claims like they went bankrupt or they lied about their campaigns and got fired, anything to cover up that they quit because they actually had good ethics.

Anyone who's ever worked for a scum-bag manager, remember this... it's not their fault. It's Grantons/DS-max's/Cydcor's fault.

I guarantee you all the managers in these companies started out as good hearted people- most of them were just recent college graduates who applied to an ad they found. Most of these (now) scum-bag managers, used to be very likeable, and probably popular in college, with lost of friends.

They the system took over, and they completely lost it, taking away their lives, hapiness, friends and family.

Don't let yourself get caught up in this trap.

Hi, my name is Derek Colontonio, and I'm currently one of the VP for Granton Marketing. After years of wasting my time in this company, I feel it's time for me to quit.

Here is my story:
As a college drop out, I found very few opportunities. I one day found an ad in an employment guide looking to train individuals for management, no experience was necessary.

So I decided to interview. I'm sure most of you know the whole process by now. I went in, moved up to leadership within three weeks, and as a leader, I was promised by my manager that I was 6-8 months away from being financially independant. So I decided to stick through the whole leadership process.

As a leader, I was taught to lie, and tell anyone coming into the company that they too (with effort and persistance) could make it up to management within 8-10 month period (maybe shorter).

Although this was a lie, because it took me 18 months to get up to management, and most leaders quit after a year to a year and a half, until they finally quit because they only have 1 or 2 leaders under them.

But I thought this was okay, because I would eventually move up to management, and become financially successful... right?... WRONG!

When I did move up to management, I found out that it was all a lie. As a manager, I was only making 30-40 thousands dollars a year. This was enough money to get by, but I could've made more had I just graduated from college.

As a manager, I had to claim that I was making 200,000 dollars a year, and granton marketing even provided me with a nice car and apartment so it would seem like I really was making all this money!

Being a manager, I was working 80-85 hours per weeking, and lying to everyone in the office, despite trying to act as a fatherly figure.


My next goal was to move up to regional manager. All I had to do was train 5 leaders to become managers. Easy enough, right...? Well this whole process took me 6 years. 6 years of working 85 hours per week, lying to everyone that I claimed to like, and act as a fatherly figure towards.

My promise was that as a regional manager, I would have to work less hours, and I would finally make 6 digits.

Both of these were lies. Even as a regional manager, I had to work 80 hours per week, but I got to fly from one city to another, instead of just sitting in some office all day. The money was a little better, my first year as a regional manager, I made 70,000 dollars. And the best part was that I didn't have to lie on a daily basis.

So as a regional manager, my goal was to promote just 1 other person to regional manager, and 3 more leaders to management, so someone else could take over my position, and I would get to stop working so hard, and make even more money.

I did this, and it only took 2 and half years. Finally, I would stop having to work so hard, and I could find a wife to settle down with, and have lots of extra money.

WRONG...!!!!! As a VP I still have to fly all over the country, train managers, tell them how to properly lie to their leaders and so on. I still don't get to live a normal life. I still don't make 6 digit figures.

I even had to make up a pretend life, where I claim to be married, and have 2 kids! This is a lie, as I haven't ever had the time to meet a woman, settle down, or have any kids.

I claim that I live in a mansion in the nicest neighborhood in Chicago.

This is also a LIE!!! I live in a decent sized apartment building with 5 other VP's, and none of us make more than 80,000 dollars a year, and most of this money is spent on our own travel expenses, as we never get to stay in the same place for more than a short period of time.

Fortunately, I have enough money saved up, so that I'll be able to quit, finish college, and hopefully meet a woman and get married.

Truth, I've only had 1 girlfriend in my 11 years at granton, and most of the VP's lie about being married or still being in contact with family members, because that's what the head people at Granton tell us to do. The head people at Granton are mostly MBA'ers who never spent a day as a distributor.

As a message from a VP (ready to quit)...

GET OUT, GET OUT, GET OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

well ive read all these complains and ansers from every 1 and i would like tpo say not every office is bad i can say that because ive worked aty 3 difrent ioffices and there are people like mike magic that are complete scam artist but the again there are people like p[eter wong that take their personal time to help and better their guys ....
now does ds max screw with people ..?yes some owners DO,but not all do i had 2 difrent leaders and they both help me evolve from a complete looser to some1 with confidence and ability for the world out there ...

Personaly im no longer in dsmax but only because of an injury i had off work but to this day i get help and advise from 1 of dsmax's owners peter wong thanks to him ive avoided serious harm to both my financial and personal life .

i u would like to finish by saing dsmax really isent for every 1 but do not judge it b4 u try it and if u went tru some issues with the company remenber there are other people like peter wong in the company that can really help and teach u to be a better person in and out of the buiseness

I want to say a quick thank you to everyone that posts on this site - every couple of months I come on to learn more about the business - I am a 23 yo Owner in Florida - everything is going well for me (yes I really earn a six figure income) and yes I am a New Owner. I used this as motivation to get through the field - and I use it now to offer a quality environment for my leaders - I offer them all this information and have them make a decision - I am very upfront and honest about the difficulties of owning your own company this quickly - and they respect that - nothing is quick money - and everything comes with hard work - thank you again for your comments - but as we all know - you decide what is for you - no one else does - nothing can harm you unless you let it - I have plenty of time for friends and family, I make plenty of time to golf and go to the beach - I lead a normal life and understand some days are Ramen Noodles and Air Mattresses in a different city and a different office - and some are Cancun Vacations - Juice by you guys

I regret that I used this forum as a means to vent my anger because unlike most open forums, this website does not allow users to delete previous posts.



That being said, I vented my anger yesterday before I had a chance to calm down and seriously look at the situation from all angles. There may be some business owners under the Granton Marketing name that do not follow good business ethics, however JPG Marketing (the company I formerly independently distributed for) is not one of them. I have nothing but good things to say about my month of experience with the company and its owner. I found myself in an uncomfortable position yesterday as a result of miscommunication and misunderstanding on both my part and the owner's.



Working for an office under the Granton Marketing name is not for everyone. I tried it for a month and found it's not for me, however I did have the opportunity to work with people whom I'm positive will become very successful through hard work and dedication to the company. In addition, I learned valuable skills that will help me succeed in any future career I chose to pursue.



If you're on this website doing research because you or someone you know has seen an ad or just been called for an interview with JPG or any other company affiliated with Granton Marketing, I urge you to go for an interview and check it out for yourself. I mistakenly accused my company of illegal activity and bad business ethics because I didn't do the research and made assumptions based on what was written here by people like myself who chose to vent misplaced anger.



I sincerely apologize for my unprofessional behavior and wish Granton Marketing, its owners, leaders and distributors the best of luck in the future. The people I worked with at JPG are some of the most hard working, talented and positive people I've ever met. I consider myself lucky for the opportunity to have worked side by side with them.

I'm a former employee of JPG Marketing, which is a direct marketing office in Malden, MA under the Granton Marketing umbrella. Last weekend I happened upon your website and the information on Granton Marketing. It only confirmed my former suspicions, however I was scheduled to go on a road trip to Baltimore that monday and decided to stick it out for the 6 day trip.



Last night I expressed my suspicions to one of the top leaders on the trip. Being a leader myself, I thought he would take my concerns seriously about using people and bad business ethics. I was sadly mistaken. This morning I went to the Baltimore office like it was a normal day. Before I stepped two feet into the door I was brought into the owner's office and told I would be taking a bus back to Boston. I was not allowed to speak with any of the other leaders or distributors (one of which happens to be my boyfriend) and was shuffled out the back door as quickly as possible. 9 hours later, I'm back in Boston after the company compensated me for my first and last transportation since being hired - a $60 bus ride to keep me from 'negging out' the rest of the office.



During my bus ride, I tried calling many of my former co-workers to tell them why I had left without so much as a word, but none of them would answer my calls. I finally got ahold of one of the newer distributors who told me a rumor had been spread that I'd been 'let go' because I misrepresented clients in the field, overcharged customers and basically stole from the company. I'm absolutely shocked that grown men, whom I trusted, would go to such lengths to discredit me and my newfound knowledge of the company. It's downright sick.



Something has to be done. I'm willing to go to great lengths to widely publisize what this company is doing. Not only is it abusing its employees, I also have proof they are charging 'tax' on their certificates in Baltimore, which is money that does not go to the governemnt, but instead straight into the pocket of the owner. This isn't just bad ethics, it's flat out illegal.



I'm only one voice, but I know more are out there. I want to rally us together and get a large news station to cover the story. Hopefully bad publicity will cause Granton's clients to pull out and the company will fold before it takes advantage of any more young people like myself.

My Lord! When will you crybabies wake up and smell the coffee? I've been out of the business, thankfully now for about seven months. And while I know now that Granton Marketing and DS Max is not something I want to spend my time or life in, it still is capitalism at it's rawest, most unadulterated form. I cannot speak for the organization at large, because different owners simply run their ships differently.



But the owners I've met and worked with are not fraudulent, merciless criminals, exploiting young and naive imbeciles just to make a buck. Your own success, self-achieved and very sacrificial, depends on YOU with their guidance and instruction. These owners are not part of some "Gene Pool" or conspirators or any other esoteric community. They are very hard working visionaries with immeasurable drive, from all different backgrounds, intelligence levels, styles, personas, etc. Frankly, I'm a hardworking, driven, educated, bright young man, but I couldn't hack it after six months of trying and having some success in three different parts of the country.



Fortunately, I have plenty of other avenues to pursue to find success, both monetary and in life fulfillment. However, not everyone has those endowments or privileges. Can't you pitiful "victims" as you portray yourselves understand that this opportunity wasn't your cup of tea, nor mine, nor 99.9% of the people that respond to a particular ad in the paper. But for the other microcosm of the population, it represents a chance to achieve something very few ever will. It's like a business marathon, and some will finish faster than others, but crossing the line in a few months or a few years is the same because so many dropped out of the race. I do believe the stories about some people being victimized, lied to, harassed, and what have you. That is unfortunate and definitely wrong. But to blame one person's behavior, or that of a few, and then surmise the whole company or system on some isolated (I know someone will pick this statement apart) incidents, is simply ignorant. It is a free country, thank God, and no one was forced to be a part of this organization any longer than they wanted to. Ultimately, the time you spent with DSMax that might have been more beneficial elsewhere is your fault.



Can anyone provide an argument refuting that statement? I dare you to do so intelligently. Until I hear about someone who was surgically implanted with a chip to force them to go door to door, or held at gunpoint day in and day out, I see no room for anyone to contradict that there was a choice to be made by YOU, the individual. If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. I'm truly sorry to hear that so many of you got burned, and now resent this so-called fire starter. Think about it, and grow up, will ya?

It is interesting to note that the responses in favor of this "sales/marketing" scheme are nothing more than undereducated con-men who most likely are all high school drop-outs and ex-cons who fill the ranks of "salesmen" taking cheap crap merchandise and hawking it to the innocent merchants across the country. All those third-world folks who are trying to earn a decent living and are being ripped-off by these fly-by-night shysters who double-deal them from both ends.



SHAME on YOU for even calling yourselves

"Marketing" or "Sales" wizards. You might just as well be sticking a gun in someone's ribs and demand their wallets. At least that way

you are a crook in a more time-honored way but NO - you insist to try and convince that you are indeed "businessmen"!

So you might well use different names and locations to push your shoddy merch and you might use different names here and different locations to try and convince you are a legion of successful dealers and reps but in fact YOU are one or two people trying to defend the sleazy 'business' you have cleverly concocted (is that too big a word for you to manage? Go look it up in your Funk & Wagnalls!).



You are an old con-game with a new coat of paint.

SLEAZE you are and SLEAZE you always shall BE.

First, let me begin by explaining that my desire is only to help avoid negative situations in the future. I currently run a location in North America and I sympathize completely with those of you that are upset with DS-MAX and its affiliates. I do not doubt that some of you suffered financially and mentally during your time within the business.



My comments are definitly not designed to take away from that fact or to bother you any further. I am simply posting this reply because I disagree with some of the comments made on the board. This business is not an evil business. It is not corrupt in any way. "As a business".



However, all of you are justified in being angry with the way that you were treated. I am not here to spit catch-phrases at you and tell you that "the business is'nt for everyone", or to tell you that you were too weak to succeed.



Failure in this medium does'nt mean that you are exempt from success in another. My purpose in posting is to explain to you that you are responsible for your own actions. You chose to take part in the business of whatever Corporation you distributed for.



If you were abused physically or mentally you could have left or called the police. If you suffered financial hardship you could have left or even looked for another job while in the field. If you are upset about the ad that you read in the paper you could always report it to the paper. And so on.



For whatever reason that you hate this business, it was you that worked within it. At no point were any of you forced to stay. In fact, in most locations it is encouraged that you leave if you are upset.



For the former owners that are upset with their situation, well, the same applies. None of you were promised to be millionaires. You were given the opportunity to recieve merchandise on consignment so that you could run a business. I can attest to the fact that this business can be extremely lucrative and financially rewarding, for those that "WORK" extremely hard.



And to you, editor of this report, I mean no offense in what I am about to say. I know that it bothers you when people defend their business, and I am sure that your exposure to those that have been hurt is far greater than mine. However, it is unfair, completely and totally, for you to automatically side with those that complain. It makes you no better than the companies that you claim to despise.



In conclusion, I expect the angry reponses that this comment will generate. I expect it because most of you are too far gone too listen anyway. I hope that one day you realize that where you are right now is the result of choices that you made. Please take reponsibility for your decisions.

Attention all:



I think I have the most experience with both types of owners. Depending on where you are and at what stand point you are with the company the one question you have to ask yourself is did you learn anything by the experience.



I still have friends 'in the business' and they are very successful at it because they keep true to themselves and the experience of being the person walking through the door. They are very successful and this type of business they are very successful with.



I have friend that had very bad experiences with it and know that the company is good but the paticular manager/ owner they dealt with were bad just like any business and any multi-level marketing company.



The thing is with a company this big there are going to be complaints and with as many people that they go through a day/week/year. You are going to have a mass outlet of anger and fingers to point the blame at.



The key is that you should ask yourself is this something that you want to experience or not. The only person that you can blame is yourself for not either going to a VP and reporting negligence. I have been in the offices where they were abusing people and they were reported and the company shut down those offices. Blaming the parent company and taking no action is easy but taking action is sometime more difficult.



I have been in offices from New York to California and even inbetween. I have experienced it all. Even though I know that my negative attitude kept me from being an owner/ manager, my positive one has made me succeed uses their system in all aspects of life.



I have been to all of their meetings from west coast to east. I even been to the international rally. I think that the idea of the company is the best. If you use it somewhere else I can tell you from experience in or out of the business the system works. Everyone that I know that uses the 5 & 8 steps has succeeded in life and wouldn't trade the experience of DS-MAX/ Cydcor for anything!



Best of luck to both parties,

Patchree

Phoenix, Arizona

Canton, Michigan

Torrance, California

Farmingdale, New York

Miami, Florida

Attention all:



I think I have the most experience with both types of owners. Depending on where you are and at what stand point you are with the company the one question you have to ask yourself is did you learn anything by the experience.



I still have friends 'in the business' and they are very successful at it because they keep true to themselves and the experience of being the person walking through the door. They are very successful and this type of business they are very successful with.



I have friend that had very bad experiences with it and know that the company is good but the paticular manager/ owner they dealt with were bad just like any business and any multi-level marketing company.



The thing is with a company this big there are going to be complaints and with as many people that they go through a day/week/year. You are going to have a mass outlet of anger and fingers to point the blame at.



The key is that you should ask yourself is this something that you want to experience or not. The only person that you can blame is yourself for not either going to a VP and reporting negligence. I have been in the offices where they were abusing people and they were reported and the company shut down those offices. Blaming the parent company and taking no action is easy but taking action is sometime more difficult.



I have been in offices from New York to California and even inbetween. I have experienced it all. Even though I know that my negative attitude kept me from being an owner/ manager, my positive one has made me succeed uses their system in all aspects of life.



I have been to all of their meetings from west coast to east. I even been to the international rally. I think that the idea of the company is the best. If you use it somewhere else I can tell you from experience in or out of the business the system works. Everyone that I know that uses the 5 & 8 steps has succeeded in life and wouldn't trade the experience of DS-MAX/ Cydcor for anything!



Best of luck to both parties,

Patchree

Phoenix, Arizona

Canton, Michigan

Torrance, California

Farmingdale, New York

Miami, Florida

1- get welcomed aboard

2- become a leader

3- train people and never make money off them until you are a owner

4- pack your bags cause if you stay behind you will be treated unfairley

5- s**t does stick and does get promoted to the next level, but be prepared to go back to step 4

6- we do today what others aren't willing to do, like what not tell the truth that it actually takes years to become a manager that actually makes 100g's/yr

7- listen to the leaders around you, sure than you'll definatly get to be a favorite for training(welcome to high school all over again, gotta impress the teacher; they don't like it when you call them what they really are- A BOSS)

8- kick all the people you care about to the curb because if you take time off from your JOB/WORK to see them you might as well start off at step one cause it will hold you back depending on where you are in the bosses like-o-meter

Someone on this thread noticed that the "supporters" of these 'door-to-door' selling scams all seem to have problems with grammar and spelling, and suggested further that these 'persons' were all just ONE individual. Most likely true.



The concept of door-to-door selling (always the hardest method of salesmanship) reeks of the 'Willy Loman' "Death of a Salesman" lifestyle that wound down around the 1950's in Middle America.



I remember an elderly 'gentleman' (I use this word loosely here) coming to our door one day and claiming to be a War Veteran. Oh, sure, he had an American Flag pin on his (rather shabby) suit lapel and he was hawking 'safety pins' at a "very good price" -- my mother purchased four boxes -- more than she could have ever used to help support the Veterans. Sure enough, after he left, the pins were examined and all were factory rejects that didn't close properly or had blunt ends.

In short: useless. We eventually determined that he'd probably picked these rejected factory products up at a good price: NOTHING.



Point here is, the same door-to-door sales BS is being applied here with a little bit of candy-coated rhetoric and D2D sales pressure applied. This is all cyclical and in time will fade away but not before many get scammed and a few make their 'blood-money'. Can you really live with yourself knowing you've made money in patently obvious deceptive ways?

Perhaps for awhile....

Someone on this thread noticed that the "supporters" of these 'door-to-door' selling scams all seem to have problems with grammar and spelling, and suggested further that these 'persons' were all just ONE individual. Most likely true.



The concept of door-to-door selling (always the hardest method of salesmanship) reeks of the 'Willy Loman' "Death of a Salesman" lifestyle that wound down around the 1950's in Middle America.



I remember an elderly 'gentleman' (I use this word loosely here) coming to our door one day and claiming to be a War Veteran. Oh, sure, he had an American Flag pin on his (rather shabby) suit lapel and he was hawking 'safety pins' at a "very good price" -- my mother purchased four boxes -- more than she could have ever used to help support the Veterans. Sure enough, after he left, the pins were examined and all were factory rejects that didn't close properly or had blunt ends.

In short: useless. We eventually determined that he'd probably picked these rejected factory products up at a good price: NOTHING.



Point here is, the same door-to-door sales BS is being applied here with a little bit of candy-coated rhetoric and D2D sales pressure applied. This is all cyclical and in time will fade away but not before many get scammed and a few make their 'blood-money'. Can you really live with yourself knowing you've made money in patently obvious deceptive ways?

Perhaps for awhile....

Someone on this thread noticed that the "supporters" of these 'door-to-door' selling scams all seem to have problems with grammar and spelling, and suggested further that these 'persons' were all just ONE individual. Most likely true.



The concept of door-to-door selling (always the hardest method of salesmanship) reeks of the 'Willy Loman' "Death of a Salesman" lifestyle that wound down around the 1950's in Middle America.



I remember an elderly 'gentleman' (I use this word loosely here) coming to our door one day and claiming to be a War Veteran. Oh, sure, he had an American Flag pin on his (rather shabby) suit lapel and he was hawking 'safety pins' at a "very good price" -- my mother purchased four boxes -- more than she could have ever used to help support the Veterans. Sure enough, after he left, the pins were examined and all were factory rejects that didn't close properly or had blunt ends.

In short: useless. We eventually determined that he'd probably picked these rejected factory products up at a good price: NOTHING.



Point here is, the same door-to-door sales BS is being applied here with a little bit of candy-coated rhetoric and D2D sales pressure applied. This is all cyclical and in time will fade away but not before many get scammed and a few make their 'blood-money'. Can you really live with yourself knowing you've made money in patently obvious deceptive ways?

Perhaps for awhile....

After reading virtually all the comments pro and con on this "company" I must agree with the 'nay-sayers'.



The mere fact that a supporter suggests that 'sexual harrassment' is acceptable and that those who complain about the 'success track' that cannot fullfill the company's requirements

should just die shows the type of person sought after to become a team member!



Companies such as this are nothing more than con-games and abuse the well-intentioned concept of 'salesmanship'.



It's the old 'Moses Pray' the bible salesman victimizing the poor widows in the Great Depression a la "Paper Moon" style!



These jerks should all be shut down.

I currently work in the advertising division of granton Marketing. I have been with the company for just a year and you couldnt pay me money to quit. There are alot of truths that have been written here, yes there is some sexual harrassment, but no worse than any other place I have worked.



Yes you work alot of hours and get little pay. But the only reason people dont make money as a distributor is because they are either lazy or have bad attitudes. I suffer from both these therefore I am not where I should be in the company. But I have a wonderfull owner/mentor, who coaches me daily and it's not because I make him money, guess what.... I owe him over $2000 between rent money and him helping me pay my medical bills.



now if this was a company that didnt care and used people, when I became ill for a month and couldnt work, wouldnt he have just booted me like any other company on the planet? No... instead he took me in his own (and very nice) home, let me live there for free and helped me pay my medical bills till I could get on my feet again. There are BAD MANAGERS out there who manipulate and use people and are in it for nothing but a quick stash of cash then they bail when things fall apart because they didn't do their job. But you cany judge a company based on one experience. Mine has been an incredibly supportive one and I will defend Granton till the end.



I hope someday to make it into management and give other people the sem oppurtunity that I have. To be succesfull based purely on hard hard hard work (door to door is the worst job on the planet) and having a positivr attitude. The company has truly made me a better person, and whether it works out for me or not, it will be an experience I will never forget.



For all the people who were wronged by terrible managers, I apologize because you have seen the worst side of humanity, the selfish, manipulating, greedy side that no one really wants to end up. As far as the cult thing... there is no chanting in the office I work in, we do not say juice or any of the other riduclas phrases the company started out with.



Those were used early on to mostivate people who could not motivate themselves, all business's do this though. Walk into a restauant or a Wal-Mart or a Best Buy, they have meetings in the mornigns to inspire they're employee's, they do chants and high-fives and reward people with praises for doing well, Granton is no different than any other major corporation.



No matter what you end up doing in life, in order to really achieve your dreams you have to make sacrifice, it's all about how much are you willing to give up? Ask Bill Gates what he gave up to achieve his dream... how about 10 years of solid work with a total of maybe 7 days off in 10 years. That is what seperates us... and you.

They are definitely part of the scam. You would be extremely wise to seek employment elsewhere. I'm happy that you asked!

Hi, Can anyone tell me if they've had a similar experience with IMG, Inc. in Manayunk, PA (in Philadelphia)? I've recently sent a resume to them and was invited by e-mail for an interview, but in the e-mail they directed me to grantonmarketing.com to learn more about their company. It obviously sounds like it's related, but I haven't seen any postings specifically about IMG, Inc. Is it one of their aliases? They do have an impressive list of clients, so I'm wondering how other reputible companies continue to do business with them if everything I'm reading is true.



Okay, so anything about IMG, Inc. in Philly would be helpful and maybe save me some trouble.



Thanks!

I am sick of these owners and employees of ds-max granton and cydcor trying to stand up for themselves in a chat room posted to vent the stress that you people brought on them for trying to live your dreams through somebody elses hard work. Im not some college kid who was with the buisness for two days and started talking smack i was with granton marketing for over fourteen months spent 8 months in dave grands office aka"BOSS HOG"IN N MIAMI then i spent 6 months in tampa.The point im trying to make here is all of these owners have no tie to any other owner or really to ds-max they get these packages from granton the sales team goes out door to door and gets 9 dollars a card to walk around all day for eight and half hours rain sleet or snow all for a !@#$%$# offfice!When i first started i thought this was an awesome concept i still do think this is an awesome way to advertise,what i dont believe in is the shady tactics employed by the owners that they pass on to the leaders and they dont question them.My leader Steve Cedrone always said it does no good to give you the wrong information beacuse that helps none of us well he didnt say anything about to little information which is exactly what the whole organazation thrives on,and ill tell you why if you have somebody in front of you that your interviewing and he looks like a blade are you going to tell him right off that hes going to be going door to door hell no!why?beacuse you want to create curiosity and create impulse get the person to feel excited so you beat around the bush and wait till the last minute like when we get to the field to tell them really what this is all about.towards the end i really didnt think about saying this to people until the end thats how i knew this wasnt for me anymore however this is what is taught by every owner in this buisness.This whole company thrives on babyfeed info beacuse if you were to get the whole unadultered truth in one day knowbody would stay the only reason i did so long was the challenge and i did really well beacuse i was honest and truthful and towards the end i felt as if i was giving that up to become this independent and wealthy owner who in my first year in buisness would make six figures if i never let my office see their family or go home for the holidays and just eat sleep s**t ds-max right!START TELLING THE WHOLE PICTURE YOU ASSHOLES NOT WHAT YOURE LEADER TELLS YOU OR SOME OFF THE WHIM s**t YOU GOT OUT OF YOURE HEAD TELL THESE PEOPLE EVERYTHING BUT WHAT FUN WOULD THAT BE BEACUSE TO YOU GUYS WHO ARE OWNERS AND IGNORANT LEADERS YOU STAND BEHIND THE WORLDS BIGGEST SHELL OF OPPORTUNITY!

to all of you Ex-employees AND current employees,



i've been through the system, i was all "juiced" at first but then i started to see the real workings. i was in my branch for about two months when the "owner" had to take a trip for a week and all the other "distributers" had that we would stay in the feild and work even longer than normal to make more money since we were under our own supervision. we started about 7AM like every day but instead of coming back in about 12 hours like usual we stayed out untill about 11pm. one night i was the first one back to our office and no one else was around except the receptionists (a 17 year old girl and her 14 year old sister) they were busy elsewhere so i took the opportunity to snoop a bit... i came to find out that over 75% of our employees were either convicts on work release or criminals using this place to hide out. but i beleive that everyone screws up and needs a second chance, and from what i knew of these guys they were basically good people. but this isn't the worst thing i found i found records of the many different names this one business had made for itself over a relatively short period of time. it started as DS-Max" then became N.C.I. (no cash investment) then on to D.M.G. (dynasty management group. i had previoulsy worked as a "skip-tracer" for a credit collection agencey(that means i tracked background info regarding debts and owners for bussiness') so i called in a favor from a fellow tracer and had him look up these names, i came to find a long trail all the way back to DS-max for thousands in past due bills, civil suites, and other legal problems with local agencies. turns out that everytime they hit a bump the company brings in a new owner and just rigs the paperwork to make it seem like a buy-out and supposedly the old company dissapears... then the set up a "new" office and move the old distributers, it's a big mary-go-round, just like a murderer trying to change their name and run for the border before they get caught. so to test this i moved from office to office and found the same thing over and over again. the system is a sham and the "owners" and distributers who post here to shoot down such claims are either on a direct DS-max payroll or are those with such things to hide



so on that note i leave you all to take what you will from it, but thats just how i found it to be.

OMG!!! Thank heaven for this website!! I quit two jobs to get involved with this company and tomorrow was supposed to be my first day. Needless to say I will NOT be there. I thought this was a little weird when I walked in under the assumption that I was to be hired for my graphic design portfolio, then got told that all the graphics were done offsite. Then the owner asked to see my portfolio, which at that point didn't make any sense. For my second interview I was told that it was a "Audition style" interview like programs used by IBM. I still thought my second interview would involve me attending meetings with potential clients, the "Fortune 500" people that kept being mentioned. Boy, was I wrong. What they didn't count on was that I am a native Greensboro-ian and when I got dragged through the ghetto all day doing "sales calls" that I got suspicious. The pinnacle of this was the fact that I was there until almost 11pm that night, because I got dragged around in a Target parking lot selling "merch" so that my account leader could hit her "juice." Only now do I see that they used the conversations I had with my "trainer" and the "owner" to suck me in. Thank god I have a background in cult sociology or I would have never given in to my suspicions and checked the web. The weirdest thing was is that I was never given a real clear answer as to who the parent company was...until I looked here.



Thank you!

OMG!!! Thank heaven for this website!! I quit two jobs to get involved with this company and tomorrow was supposed to be my first day. Needless to say I will NOT be there. I thought this was a little weird when I walked in under the assumption that I was to be hired for my graphic design portfolio, then got told that all the graphics were done offsite. Then the owner asked to see my portfolio, which at that point didn't make any sense. For my second interview I was told that it was a "Audition style" interview like programs used by IBM. I still thought my second interview would involve me attending meetings with potential clients, the "Fortune 500" people that kept being mentioned. Boy, was I wrong. What they didn't count on was that I am a native Greensboro-ian and when I got dragged through the ghetto all day doing "sales calls" that I got suspicious. The pinnacle of this was the fact that I was there until almost 11pm that night, because I got dragged around in a Target parking lot selling "merch" so that my account leader could hit her "juice." Only now do I see that they used the conversations I had with my "trainer" and the "owner" to suck me in. Thank god I have a background in cult sociology or I would have never given in to my suspicions and checked the web. The weirdest thing was is that I was never given a real clear answer as to who the parent company was...until I looked here.



Thank you!

OMG!!! Thank heaven for this website!! I quit two jobs to get involved with this company and tomorrow was supposed to be my first day. Needless to say I will NOT be there. I thought this was a little weird when I walked in under the assumption that I was to be hired for my graphic design portfolio, then got told that all the graphics were done offsite. Then the owner asked to see my portfolio, which at that point didn't make any sense. For my second interview I was told that it was a "Audition style" interview like programs used by IBM. I still thought my second interview would involve me attending meetings with potential clients, the "Fortune 500" people that kept being mentioned. Boy, was I wrong. What they didn't count on was that I am a native Greensboro-ian and when I got dragged through the ghetto all day doing "sales calls" that I got suspicious. The pinnacle of this was the fact that I was there until almost 11pm that night, because I got dragged around in a Target parking lot selling "merch" so that my account leader could hit her "juice." Only now do I see that they used the conversations I had with my "trainer" and the "owner" to suck me in. Thank god I have a background in cult sociology or I would have never given in to my suspicions and checked the web. The weirdest thing was is that I was never given a real clear answer as to who the parent company was...until I looked here.



Thank you!

OMG!!! Thank heaven for this website!! I quit two jobs to get involved with this company and tomorrow was supposed to be my first day. Needless to say I will NOT be there. I thought this was a little weird when I walked in under the assumption that I was to be hired for my graphic design portfolio, then got told that all the graphics were done offsite. Then the owner asked to see my portfolio, which at that point didn't make any sense. For my second interview I was told that it was a "Audition style" interview like programs used by IBM. I still thought my second interview would involve me attending meetings with potential clients, the "Fortune 500" people that kept being mentioned. Boy, was I wrong. What they didn't count on was that I am a native Greensboro-ian and when I got dragged through the ghetto all day doing "sales calls" that I got suspicious. The pinnacle of this was the fact that I was there until almost 11pm that night, because I got dragged around in a Target parking lot selling "merch" so that my account leader could hit her "juice." Only now do I see that they used the conversations I had with my "trainer" and the "owner" to suck me in. Thank god I have a background in cult sociology or I would have never given in to my suspicions and checked the web. The weirdest thing was is that I was never given a real clear answer as to who the parent company was...until I looked here.



Thank you!

After my division got shut down, and I found work elsewhere, I am the hardest worker in my office. People do not understand why I work so hard. I do what needs and has to be done and I enjoy getting out at 5:00pm. I enjoy my 3 weeks vacation. I enjoy my 8 sick days. I enjoy my 2 personal days. I enjoy my rases and bonuses. I enjoy the training provided. While I was in the business I enjoyed it too. But now I found something better. Read all of the Rich Dad Poor dad books and your life will change. Especially the cashflow quadrant. Job stands for Just over broke. We are working to make somon else rich. For now, work, save, borrow and mind your own business by filling up your asset column. When your income from your asset column (real estate, paper assets and business) is higher than your expenses then you no longer have to work. Go rich dad!

I am an ex-employee of DS-Max... the clearance division, which is now called Innovage. I was thinking about re-entering the company after a 3 month hiatus so I decided to do a little research. Thus, coming across this forum here.



Now, my previous experience, I worked for Innovage out of Hamilton ON. A city that is over filled with people collecting wellfare, or people living on the streets. Don't get me wrong, there are successful people here too, but I think the latter outweighs them a little bit. I came to the business because of an add in the paper, promising a "warehouse possision" as did every other ex-employee on this thread... but instead I found much more.



What I found was an "opprotunity" to be successful. In otherwords, I was put in the possition to decide the outcome of my life. I made my own paychecks. The harder I worked, the more money I made. A lot of people on this thread have the right idea, but are looking at it from the wrong direction. The reason people aren't successful in this business isn't because they're getting ripped off, isn't because they weren't taught properly. It's because they don't understand what was being taught.



The owner I was under, Brent is really great. He came to the Hamilton office, and saw it exactly as the offices were described above. A little dive with "minty green walls" that just looked... horrible, and unprofessional. So what did he do... we moved. He found us a better location that actually looks like an office should. Complete with a nice warehouse. He was always the first one that I could go to when I had a problem, and he would deal with it. If I was having financial problems (which I did, even before I started with the company) then he'd help me through it. If the problem was personal, he'd help me through it. He is a man who knows people, and he knows how to work with people. Which is the type of person that the company needs.



I was a leader. I never had a strong team, because I was always worried about my financial difficulty. But the team I did have, I learned how to pay them well, without hurting myself. I mean, it's really easy when you think about it. Take extra "merch" and if you taught your man right in the impact room, then after a few confidence doors, you can "throw him to the wolves" as it's so nicely put. Then, just pay the person according to what he or she sold. If they had a horrible day, maybe only made themselves $40 bucks, I'd have no problem tossing them an extra $10, but I wouldn't let myself starve over it. That also helps keep your trainee strong. Teaches them that they're going to have to work for everything they get. Is that mentality harsh? yes. Is life going to work any other way? No.



People complaining about not getting paid enough, or getting ripped off. That is nobodies fault but your own. You are paid cash in hand, every day. No no... not even. You are the one, who in fact pays the Owner, for his merchandice that he consigns to you. You are told before you even leave the building how much you owe for each thing sold, and you are taught how to calculate it all. If you weren't... ASK SOMEONE! They will teach you. The more successful you become, the more successful they become. If you figure out how much you owe before you have to pay in, there can be no mistakes, and if there is, then you sit down with your owner, and figure out the problem together. People in this business that don't do it that way, are morons. I know owners who purposly take from the top, just to see who's smart enough to notice, and do something about it. This is your own business you are running from the start, and if you can't do something as simple keep track of what YOU make, then maybe you should just sit at home and collect that government cheque every month.



And you laugh that most of the management can't spell... "I don't have to be able to spell to be an owner". You've heard that right? Well know what. It's true. That's the beauty of this. This company tells you that just because you didn't finish High School, doesn't mean you have to be a failure. You can make the money that someone with a college education is making, you just have to work a lot harder at it. There is hope you know.



Product quality. It's crap. Anyone who denies that is a liar, and a theif. But you know what, it's crap at an affordable price. People that need it don't have to spend hundreds of dollars on a knife set, when they can buy one out of a box for $20. The quality isn't the same, but it serves the same purpose. And you can't complain about quality unless you pay for quality, in my opinion of course.



Is the business honest? Yes. Is everyone in it? No. I dare you to find the perfect business. Hell, are churches completely honest? I'll let you decide that one.



I really like the whole Cult references that come up. I remember my first Leaders Meeting. It was in Toronto. On the way home, I was talking with one of my co-workers, who was in the business a while longer then I was. He just said; "It's just a big Cult, eh" and I thought about it for a second, and replied; "It's more like an Army" and I think that's what the founders had in mind to. You hit the field, you come back to base for more training, and you grow as a person. You train people to reflect yourself. That's how to be successful. And you know what, the Army can take lives... or it can make lives. Be all that you can be, but this way, you don't have to get shot in the process.



After reading and writing all of this, it has made me realize what I missed about the whole thing. Everything. Personally, if you take what you can get out of it, then it is one of the best jobs out there... but nothing comes without hard work, and on Monday morning... I'm going to dress up in my suit and tie. I'm going to shave, comb my hair, and be ready to take on the world. And you know what? I feel good about that.



Just don't hate the player... hate the game. Thank you for taking the time to read my opinion, and I hope you can get something from it.

Jeff. You have not addressed sexual harrassment, false advertising, nonexistent tax and employment records, and in fact, you haven't said ANYTHING of substance whatsoever. All you did was repeat the same tired, broad, and pointless remarks that every "employee" or "owner" has posted. *yawn*



Oh yeah, and Jeff... you are badgering ex-employees for blaming this "company" (I don't consider it a company-I consider it a system) for their "failure" by doing the exact same thing, only making it sound like the opposite-blaming them for their failure... I find it to be a conflict of interest when the loyal employees of a system remove blame from the system. You are doing the exact same thing-projecting blame.



Funny thing though, when there are so many MORE people here posting reports AGAINST the system, then there are defending it... I wonder why that is?



Cheers.



P.s. Don't post replies that are nothing more than self-serving advertisements for your "company" because it just makes you look pathetic.

I found this site by accident actually looking for some old associates from Granton Marketing....and I just could not pass up the opportunity to tell all of you whiners and complainers a few things...I was with Granton for about 1 1/2 years and certainley saw my fair share of lazy, unmotivated, unambitious people quit the buisiness and then blame the business for their failure...As John Stossel would say "Gimme a Break" I doubt seriously that any of you here that are disgruntled will ever be successful in running your own business, if you couldn't go out in the field and make 100.00 a day it was no one's fault but you're own, and as far as building a crew you're either a leader or you're not, if you are not you stick around with leaders and you learn how to become one..I will agree that the promotion idea to everyone isn't right, most people do not have the ability, personality, desire or motivation to lead, I left Granton and started my own Direct Advertising business and offered people sales jobs and if one was so motivated they could move up and have thier own deal, but most people I found once presented with the cold facts of operating their own business decided to take the victim route and blame thier failure on anyone but themselves ....You represent the typical lazy American, the average Joe who thinks everything should be handed to them...If you were to talk to any CEO of any corporation I am sure that he or she would tell you that many sacifices are needed to rise to the top...You either choose to be successful or you choose to blame others, it's all about choice....that's about all the time I have to waste preaching to the lazy masses.......Juice By You, Baby!

Here are the infamous 5's & 8's:



The fives:

1. Intro

2. Short story

3. Presentation

4. Close

5. Rehash



The Eights:

1. Have a great attitude

2. Be on time

3. Be prepared

4. Work a full eight hours

5. Work your territory correctly

6. Maintain your attitude

7. Know why you are here

8. Take control





Now I'm not certain how effective the 5's & 8's would be in weightlifting (a full eight hours?) and attracting the opposite sex (unless you're picking up a prostitute). But I guess you're right Ed, they really aren't limited strictly to sales. Then again, if you didn't at least know the 8's (as Ed hinted) you are a moron. But why do people from DSM give the company so much credit for teaching them these basic ideas?



As for the law of averages being a steady one in ten that's bull. You realize that in many cases distributors and leaders will buy merch from themselves so that they can get their bell, right? Also, I seriously doubt that call back sheets are recorded and looked at for a period greater than one week. Given the nature of the business, they are most likely used for day-to-day inspiration only, i.e. yelling at a distributor in private for a bad LOA or parading them in front of the rest of the office and making them out to be the Messiah for a good LOA.



LOA's aside, why is the statement Its not for everyone so annoying? Because, given the failure rate in the business, its just a bit of an understatement. (The same way that just a bit is in that sentence) What's more pathetic are the implications. The statement implies that success in the business is determined solely by individual effort. You proved this yourself in your alternative example of, Feel free to leave if you don't want to commit a lot of time and effort to it. But as I pointed out before and Stephen did as well, there's a whole bunch of other variables at play. DS-Max is just too simple to understand that not only do these variables exist, but what their effects are and how to deal with them. It's a glib business and a glib explanation. But if being laconic is your preference for an expression of fact (personally I prefer truth, but we all have our own agendas) then how about It's a gamble? It's even more concise! (not to mention accurate)



There's really not much more I can say that hasn't been said already. You admitted that the company uses deception and lies from the start. You even justified it. Call me crazy, but people should never have to apologize for having trust in others, nor should they feel compelled to stop bitching (as you so eloquently put it) that people have lied to them and violated their trust.



If you honestly feel that people should take responsibility for being victimized by lies, deception and manipulation then you are a total scumbag. If not, then perhaps you should re-evaluate your assessment of DS-Max's power of persuasion.

You are out of the business. You found a better opportunity. Maybe your manager was a good person. Maybe you learned some sales skills.



But the longer you are out the more you will see how you and others are mislead.



Does this family business now con you into building a sales crew out of your own pocket?



Do they have you go places and not reimburse you?



Do you have to attend atmosphere twice a day and make sure everyone is acting correctly and participating in the chants?



Do you have to call your subordinates on Sunday to make sure they are coming in?



Do they dictate how you should think feel and act?



This is just the tip of the iceburg. I am glad you are out and I hope you begin to realize how you got taken in.

If you need someone else to lay out a system for you to accomplish things through common sense, then you don't have any. You are like a consumer, only you are buying ideas and not physical objects. You are involving a middleman (an invented and unnecessary middleman) and convincing yourself it is somehow responsible for any success you may experience. It is sad that you need that reassurance and that you can't simply have faith in yourself, in your capabilities, and your ability to achieve great things without anyone else's motivation. Trust me, you don't need an inherited mantra to be successful.



Your law of averages may or may not be correct, however it is entirely (I mean 100%) dependent on demographics and the product you are selling. If that weren't the case, then there would be no need for marketing! Perhaps you did sell to one out of every five customers. Good for you! I guarantee you that you will not find that average to be accurate everywhere. It has nothing to do with being good or not. It doesn't take a genius to be polite and hype a product. The simple fact is that if the customer is in NO way interested, then it doesn't matter how good you think you are because they will NOT buy it. It has nothing to do with confidence and it is ridiculous and typical for you people to blame the people who are unsuccessful and to remove any responsibility from the system. People have lives, ok? They do NOT like being interrupted by door-to-door salesman. They don't like having to take time away from their kids, cooking dinner, doing work, cleaning the house, etc. to listen to pitches for discount coupons. You are BOTHERING them and it does not make them bitter, unhappy, or pricks (good to know how you really feel about the consumer). It is an inconvenience for some people and they have every right to express an attitude and if they so choose, to slam the door in your face.



It doesn't surprise me you don't have the data either. I have yet to meet a single person who does have any concrete statistics and/or data on this company.



I agree it is not for everyone. Companies that lie, misrepresent themselves, make false promises, and manipulate people certainly wouldn't be for everyone. After all, not everyone is shallow and most reputable companies have ethics. This company should look into it.



The higher ups are financially well off, because they benefit from the people below them. That is obvious. It's how a pyramid scheme works and this IS a pyramid scheme. I don't want there to be any confusion. The organization of the company is explained very explicitly to you when you are hired, and there is no doubt that it is a pyramid scheme. A few owners have even made statements to that effect in these very forums. Oh, and by the way, cars are not symbols of wealth. The higher ups like to use those things as tools to appeal to the materialistic fantasies of the YOUNG adults they hire. You see, in my office they used a Lexxus. Either way, it doesn't make a difference. I can lease a Lexxus for $300 a month, or a Porsche for $500 a month with a modest down payment. Cars do not impress me. Honesty and integrity impress me and the management I have encountered in this company possesses neither.



As far as the advertisements, you just admitted and attempted to justify FALSE ADVERTISING. This is illegal, however DS-MAX gets around it because false advertising laws pertain only to commercial products and their representation to the public. They don't lie about a product (because they don't produce anything) and so they are able to continue LYING. Yes, it is LYING. You can call it whatever you want (tweaking?), but it is not fooling anyone. You are lying, end of story. You are correct that most people wouldn't want to be a door-to-door salesman. It is an unsatisfying job. Who wants to walk for 10 hours a day for the rest of their life? DS-MAX makes false promises (again that is called LYING) and they PROMISE (Ok? It is PRINTED in their ads) a base pay. There is NO base pay. That, again, is LYING. If something is promised to you, then it IS owed to you. Of course people want to quit. Who wants to work for a company that doesn't pay you and lies to you repeatedly about not only the nature of the work, but also about the business itself? You forget that most of the people posting here, including myself, have WORKED for DS-MAX. We are not oblivious to the way the business is run. I answered one of these tweaked ads, which misrepresented the company, the nature of the work, the benefits, and also promised a base pay. I went in for an interview and the manager misrepresented the company, the nature of the work, and the benefits. The lies don't stop at the ads, they continue in the interviews, and for about the first week straight all I heard was bullshit. Most people experience this same situation and quit finally after they realize it's all bullshit and that they will not make any money.



Brainwashing is not comical and it's a serious issue. I as a matter of fact DID study psychology and some people are very susceptible to suggestion and persuasion. Whether it is intentional or not is NOT the issue. The issue is that people are experiencing psychological stress and damage as a result of the rituals (which are bizarre to say the least) that are IMPOSED if you wish to keep your job with this company. If it were not a real phenomenon then there would not be entire websites and Internet communities dedicated to the issue. It is NOT imagined.



Again, selling skills have nothing to do with anything. It is solely demographics. If it were not, then there wouldn't be executive positions dedicated to this matter. They wouldn't teach it in colleges and universities. They wouldn't need focus groups and surveys to target consumers. DS-MAX does nothing of the kind. I know because I was there and I saw how they picked locations. They drew a circle on a map and said, Your group will be going here today. The products were never no brainers and in many cases were not worth a d**n. Coupons for oil changes, free beers at a local bar, free pizzas, etc. are just some of the products I sold. I don't care if you are a marketing graduate or not, you will not have much luck selling free beer kegs in a neighborhood of elderly couples.



Good luck with your career. If DS-MAX is such a fantastic opportunity and you are so good at it, you should have stuck with it. I'd be interested to see how successful you could be without your friend's father, having to rely solely on your brilliant marketing skills and a reputable, well structured company like DS-MAXor Grantonor Titan whichever one of the many names they use.



Cheers.

I appreciate the obviously negative recognition from you guys. To hopefully answer your demands, here are afew things I personally can attest to and prove. The 5 steps and 8 steps do not correlate strictly to sales - They are effective, versatile adages by which one can accomplish great things, whether it be in business, pursuit of the opposite sex, lifting weights, basically anything. The 5 relate more to persuasion and the 8 relate more to personal attitude and mental focus. They are simple steps, almost common sense, that can be applied to life in general.



Whoever wrote the last comment, I am no longer in the business, so please don't give me orders about how to run my office. I was never an owner in the first place. And chastize, lambaste, accost me all you want, I get a kick out of it.



James, I give you an A for effort, dcent argument bro. But here's what I can tell you. Law of Averages really says 1 out of 10 will buy. My law of averages in the business was more like 1 in 5 will buy - I was good at sales and made decent money. Over the long haul, AT LEAST 1 in 10 will buy in the field unless you truly suck at sales and lose confidence in yourself. Sure it's demeaning to have someone curse at you or slam the door in your face now and then, but I truly feel like it builds character. I'm glad I'm not one of those bitter, unhapppy pricks. As for reaching ownership, it's a different story. Very few get there and I cannot begin to measure the percentage who make it because i simply don't have the data.



As far as measuring production - EVERY owner and diligent team leader have a log of who sold what for every day. It's necessary to complete the daily master, etc. Of course they keep track of sales and the distributor can check out there LOA by looking at their callback sheet. Rings a bell, doesn't it, NPI.



"It's not for everyone." - It's not, it wasn't even for me, though I support it. I never claimed it was perfect. Everything has its flaws. How else can it be said that "It's not for everyone." Not a mantra my man, just a simple expression of fact. Would you prefer, "The business is intolerable for most people. Very few will be successful at it. Feel free to leave if you don't want to commit a lot of time and effort to it.?" I prefer the laconic route - "It's not for everyone."



By financially independent, all I mean is having wealth generated by your own creation - your office and/or organization. Paul Gaudreau is financially independent, as are many others in the company. They have generated enough money that they do not need to worry or be dependent on Social Security, a 401K, or investments. Their savings in cold hard cash are enough. That's all I mean by financially independent. Reality is that each incorporated office is under the Granton Marketing/DS-Max umbrella. as for proof - sorry that I can't get their bank records, I tried. I think his Porsche that I saw and other expensive accouterments vouch for his wealth.



A good-natured business - Ideally, owners want to see everyone make it because that's more money in their pocket. They want to see others succeed, even if it's for selfish reasons. We all know that most people come in and will quit soon after. Some will give it their all and not make it. Others will. No one will answer an ad that says "Go to door-to-door and sell coupons on commision only." That is why they have to tweak them a bit, even a lot, to at least get people in the door. Ultimately, you choose if you want to do it or not. No one puts a gun to your head. All these people bitching should have gotten out earlier before they "wasted" more of their time and never got the results they felt were "promised" or even "owed to them." They made a bad decision. And if they say they were brainwashed, which is comical, they let these people manipulate their psyche. Trust me, no one is trained in the art of psychology at DS-Max, unless it was a previous field. It is a sales-driven business that uses persuasion - that's it. some are more easily persuaded than others (buyers vs. non-buyers.)



Lastly, I can't stand to here these whiners kvetching about making no money. That means you sucked in the field at selling. I made pretty decent money ($400-$600/week), some weeks were better, some worse. I know others that made a lot more than me. Why did you eat s**t in the field? The product was almost alwas a no brainer. As a marketing graduate, I do agree that demographics should be taken into greater consideration, but that is the individual owner's responsibility to run an airtight ship. some do, some don't, though i believe demos are coming into the picture soon.



As for me leaving to pursue a more lucrative opportunity, I am back in New York after being in Miami and Michigan with Granton. My best friend's father is a multi-millionaire entreprenuer and I do sales/marketing for his company. I am simply extremely fortunate to have this connection to what is basically a family business. Any questions? I will periodically check on this thread because I love to argue and I don't get a chance to write like this anymore.



Please feel free to say whatever you wish to say, be it rude, profane, grotesque, whatever. I love to hear it. Come and get me.

I appreciate the obviously negative recognition from you guys. To hopefully answer your demands, here are afew things I personally can attest to and prove. The 5 steps and 8 steps do not correlate strictly to sales - They are effective, versatile adages by which one can accomplish great things, whether it be in business, pursuit of the opposite sex, lifting weights, basically anything. The 5 relate more to persuasion and the 8 relate more to personal attitude and mental focus. They are simple steps, almost common sense, that can be applied to life in general.



Whoever wrote the last comment, I am no longer in the business, so please don't give me orders about how to run my office. I was never an owner in the first place. And chastize, lambaste, accost me all you want, I get a kick out of it.



James, I give you an A for effort, dcent argument bro. But here's what I can tell you. Law of Averages really says 1 out of 10 will buy. My law of averages in the business was more like 1 in 5 will buy - I was good at sales and made decent money. Over the long haul, AT LEAST 1 in 10 will buy in the field unless you truly suck at sales and lose confidence in yourself. Sure it's demeaning to have someone curse at you or slam the door in your face now and then, but I truly feel like it builds character. I'm glad I'm not one of those bitter, unhapppy pricks. As for reaching ownership, it's a different story. Very few get there and I cannot begin to measure the percentage who make it because i simply don't have the data.



As far as measuring production - EVERY owner and diligent team leader have a log of who sold what for every day. It's necessary to complete the daily master, etc. Of course they keep track of sales and the distributor can check out there LOA by looking at their callback sheet. Rings a bell, doesn't it, NPI.



"It's not for everyone." - It's not, it wasn't even for me, though I support it. I never claimed it was perfect. Everything has its flaws. How else can it be said that "It's not for everyone." Not a mantra my man, just a simple expression of fact. Would you prefer, "The business is intolerable for most people. Very few will be successful at it. Feel free to leave if you don't want to commit a lot of time and effort to it.?" I prefer the laconic route - "It's not for everyone."



By financially independent, all I mean is having wealth generated by your own creation - your office and/or organization. Paul Gaudreau is financially independent, as are many others in the company. They have generated enough money that they do not need to worry or be dependent on Social Security, a 401K, or investments. Their savings in cold hard cash are enough. That's all I mean by financially independent. Reality is that each incorporated office is under the Granton Marketing/DS-Max umbrella. as for proof - sorry that I can't get their bank records, I tried. I think his Porsche that I saw and other expensive accouterments vouch for his wealth.



A good-natured business - Ideally, owners want to see everyone make it because that's more money in their pocket. They want to see others succeed, even if it's for selfish reasons. We all know that most people come in and will quit soon after. Some will give it their all and not make it. Others will. No one will answer an ad that says "Go to door-to-door and sell coupons on commision only." That is why they have to tweak them a bit, even a lot, to at least get people in the door. Ultimately, you choose if you want to do it or not. No one puts a gun to your head. All these people bitching should have gotten out earlier before they "wasted" more of their time and never got the results they felt were "promised" or even "owed to them." They made a bad decision. And if they say they were brainwashed, which is comical, they let these people manipulate their psyche. Trust me, no one is trained in the art of psychology at DS-Max, unless it was a previous field. It is a sales-driven business that uses persuasion - that's it. some are more easily persuaded than others (buyers vs. non-buyers.)



Lastly, I can't stand to here these whiners kvetching about making no money. That means you sucked in the field at selling. I made pretty decent money ($400-$600/week), some weeks were better, some worse. I know others that made a lot more than me. Why did you eat s**t in the field? The product was almost alwas a no brainer. As a marketing graduate, I do agree that demographics should be taken into greater consideration, but that is the individual owner's responsibility to run an airtight ship. some do, some don't, though i believe demos are coming into the picture soon.



As for me leaving to pursue a more lucrative opportunity, I am back in New York after being in Miami and Michigan with Granton. My best friend's father is a multi-millionaire entreprenuer and I do sales/marketing for his company. I am simply extremely fortunate to have this connection to what is basically a family business. Any questions? I will periodically check on this thread because I love to argue and I don't get a chance to write like this anymore.



Please feel free to say whatever you wish to say, be it rude, profane, grotesque, whatever. I love to hear it. Come and get me.

I appreciate the obviously negative recognition from you guys. To hopefully answer your demands, here are afew things I personally can attest to and prove. The 5 steps and 8 steps do not correlate strictly to sales - They are effective, versatile adages by which one can accomplish great things, whether it be in business, pursuit of the opposite sex, lifting weights, basically anything. The 5 relate more to persuasion and the 8 relate more to personal attitude and mental focus. They are simple steps, almost common sense, that can be applied to life in general.



Whoever wrote the last comment, I am no longer in the business, so please don't give me orders about how to run my office. I was never an owner in the first place. And chastize, lambaste, accost me all you want, I get a kick out of it.



James, I give you an A for effort, dcent argument bro. But here's what I can tell you. Law of Averages really says 1 out of 10 will buy. My law of averages in the business was more like 1 in 5 will buy - I was good at sales and made decent money. Over the long haul, AT LEAST 1 in 10 will buy in the field unless you truly suck at sales and lose confidence in yourself. Sure it's demeaning to have someone curse at you or slam the door in your face now and then, but I truly feel like it builds character. I'm glad I'm not one of those bitter, unhapppy pricks. As for reaching ownership, it's a different story. Very few get there and I cannot begin to measure the percentage who make it because i simply don't have the data.



As far as measuring production - EVERY owner and diligent team leader have a log of who sold what for every day. It's necessary to complete the daily master, etc. Of course they keep track of sales and the distributor can check out there LOA by looking at their callback sheet. Rings a bell, doesn't it, NPI.



"It's not for everyone." - It's not, it wasn't even for me, though I support it. I never claimed it was perfect. Everything has its flaws. How else can it be said that "It's not for everyone." Not a mantra my man, just a simple expression of fact. Would you prefer, "The business is intolerable for most people. Very few will be successful at it. Feel free to leave if you don't want to commit a lot of time and effort to it.?" I prefer the laconic route - "It's not for everyone."



By financially independent, all I mean is having wealth generated by your own creation - your office and/or organization. Paul Gaudreau is financially independent, as are many others in the company. They have generated enough money that they do not need to worry or be dependent on Social Security, a 401K, or investments. Their savings in cold hard cash are enough. That's all I mean by financially independent. Reality is that each incorporated office is under the Granton Marketing/DS-Max umbrella. as for proof - sorry that I can't get their bank records, I tried. I think his Porsche that I saw and other expensive accouterments vouch for his wealth.



A good-natured business - Ideally, owners want to see everyone make it because that's more money in their pocket. They want to see others succeed, even if it's for selfish reasons. We all know that most people come in and will quit soon after. Some will give it their all and not make it. Others will. No one will answer an ad that says "Go to door-to-door and sell coupons on commision only." That is why they have to tweak them a bit, even a lot, to at least get people in the door. Ultimately, you choose if you want to do it or not. No one puts a gun to your head. All these people bitching should have gotten out earlier before they "wasted" more of their time and never got the results they felt were "promised" or even "owed to them." They made a bad decision. And if they say they were brainwashed, which is comical, they let these people manipulate their psyche. Trust me, no one is trained in the art of psychology at DS-Max, unless it was a previous field. It is a sales-driven business that uses persuasion - that's it. some are more easily persuaded than others (buyers vs. non-buyers.)



Lastly, I can't stand to here these whiners kvetching about making no money. That means you sucked in the field at selling. I made pretty decent money ($400-$600/week), some weeks were better, some worse. I know others that made a lot more than me. Why did you eat s**t in the field? The product was almost alwas a no brainer. As a marketing graduate, I do agree that demographics should be taken into greater consideration, but that is the individual owner's responsibility to run an airtight ship. some do, some don't, though i believe demos are coming into the picture soon.



As for me leaving to pursue a more lucrative opportunity, I am back in New York after being in Miami and Michigan with Granton. My best friend's father is a multi-millionaire entreprenuer and I do sales/marketing for his company. I am simply extremely fortunate to have this connection to what is basically a family business. Any questions? I will periodically check on this thread because I love to argue and I don't get a chance to write like this anymore.



Please feel free to say whatever you wish to say, be it rude, profane, grotesque, whatever. I love to hear it. Come and get me.

I have been out of the business for a while now...but I still like to come here and watch James from Pittsburg lash out at everyone. I think he is on every one of these things.Keep up the good work.



Ed, If you were to ever call me a gimmel to my face,being lashed out at over the internet would be the least of your problems. If your bullshit company is so great, why must you come here to defend it? Not just you, but several other managers. I think you all know in the backs of your minds that what you do is a big pile of bullshit. If it is so great why do they have websites soley for the purposes of healing people who have been mindfed beyond recognition? ie. DSMAXTHEAFTERMATH.COM



Ed....You are trying to argue your point with the wrong people. Waste your time with one of your new hire drones who knows no better. He might still give a s**t what you have to say. Because guys like James and I have heard what you've had to say a million times from a thousand different people, and never once prove one ioda of a point. It is very difficult for me to restrain myself from completly chastizing your stupid a*s on this site.



My advice to you is go back to your office...Think of some bullshit meeting on the 5's and 8's or world domination, or whatever it is you use to excite your group of lost, broke down, tired, poor distributors to go and make you a buck.

I have been out of the business for a while now...but I still like to come here and watch James from Pittsburg lash out at everyone. I think he is on every one of these things.Keep up the good work.



Ed, If you were to ever call me a gimmel to my face,being lashed out at over the internet would be the least of your problems. If your bullshit company is so great, why must you come here to defend it? Not just you, but several other managers. I think you all know in the backs of your minds that what you do is a big pile of bullshit. If it is so great why do they have websites soley for the purposes of healing people who have been mindfed beyond recognition? ie. DSMAXTHEAFTERMATH.COM



Ed....You are trying to argue your point with the wrong people. Waste your time with one of your new hire drones who knows no better. He might still give a s**t what you have to say. Because guys like James and I have heard what you've had to say a million times from a thousand different people, and never once prove one ioda of a point. It is very difficult for me to restrain myself from completly chastizing your stupid a*s on this site.



My advice to you is go back to your office...Think of some bullshit meeting on the 5's and 8's or world domination, or whatever it is you use to excite your group of lost, broke down, tired, poor distributors to go and make you a buck.

I worked for this company (different branch, out here in NYS), for 2 1/2 months. It was a complete JOKE. I LEFT the company. OK? NOT because I couldn't cut it, NOT because I was unmotivated, and NOT because I wasn't "goal oriented" or whatever other bullshit the employees and owners spew (anyone notice the grammar and language are about the same? maybe the same person?). OK? I didn't "not last", I LEFT. The behavior of the management (which I will describe), the misrepresentation of the company and the position, and the ridiculous methods and techniques employed by these companies were some of the reasons I LEFT. OK?



I'm a writer, and artist, a filmmaker, and an academic (I took this job for some extra cash before I went back to school in the fall-BIG MISTAKE-but now I'm back in school and earning a degree which I actually CAN use to earn a career). I know how to make astute and informed observations, and so HERE ARE THE FACTS.



First of all, they should be sued for misrepresenting their organization. EVERY classified ad for this company refers specifically and exclusively to SPORTS and/or ENTERTAINMENT, or management positions. The job has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with ANY of those things. Not a single thing. This is a DOOR TO DOOR SALESMAN POSITION. They call it "independent distributor" but you are a DOOR TO DOOR SALESMAN, PERIOD.



Secondly, potential employees are assured a BASE pay in addition to commissions on sales. There is NO base pay. You receive NO paychecks. If you do not sell any "merch" (which is just coupons for local businesses or promotions) then you do NOT get paid. PERIOD.



Thirdly, the description of the weirdness involved with these companies is totally ACCURATE. The companies are located in small warehouses, as was mine. They have ridiculous and embarassing "practices" and "rituals" that you are forced to participate in, as long as you wish to keep the job. I felt such pity for everyone working there and I never formally quit. I just stopped showing up because it was so ridiculous. It was EMBARASSING and degrading. If I wasn't being forced to do it myself, I would have broke out laughing at how ridiculous these practices were.



These companies PREY on young adults, usually 19-25 years old. Out of the 20 people I worked with, the only person over 25 was the manager who was the creepiest 45 year old I have ever met. He (trained to do so I assume) changed his act depending on who he was dealing with. With the males, he would make lewd and suggestive comments about the females who worked in the company (who incidentally were ALL beautiful... coincidence?) and with the females he would play up materialistic things, like how his best seller (who incidentally NO ONE EVER MET OR SAW) was just our age and already owned a Lexxus. We saw the Lexxus parked in front of the office a few times, but even then the so-called owner was never seen... it's a small office, there are only so many places he could be... was he even real? Did they rent a Lexxus just to show it off?? I could never figure it out. They pay you what little money you earn (IF you happen to sell anything) IN CASH at the end of the day. Um... sound a little shady to anyone else?



They play up constantly the "possible" money you can make... but no one I knew there made ANY money. The entire 2 1/2 months I was there I made around $450 MAX. It was a complete WASTE of my time. I could have made 3 times that working LESS HOURS and with LESS PHYSICAL WORK. Like I said before, you are a DOOR TO DOOR SALESMAN. The job requires 10 hour work days!!! Which IS 1-2 hours of preparation (rituals, "practicing pitches", the juicing bullshit, etc.), and then you are sent out to "sell". This requires about 6-8 hours of WALKING around neighborhoods in cities all over the place, regardless of ethnic makeup, income level, demographics etc. There was NO research done in these areas. We could be in the most dangerous neighborhood, but we wouldn't know until we showed up. And without demographics, we had NO CHANCE of selling!



Like sending us to a neighborhood of elderly to sell coupons for some bar, or something else totally unrelated. We were always stuck trying to sell "merch" to people who would never be interested in buying it. It was a TOTAL WASTE of our time and theirs. I could NOT blame people for slamming the door in my face. I would do the same thing.



I have to strongly disagree with the previous posts in support of the company. How does having doors slammed in your face, walking in the blazing sun (I worked summer months-I pity the people stuck working winters) in potentially dangerous neighborhoods, being subject to ridicule (people would think we were Jehova's Witnesses because of the dress attire), and for 6-8 hours a day for VERY LITTLE to NO PAY, boost your confidence? HOW?? How do you see this as a means to "get ahead"? Do you have any LOGICAL reasoning capabilities? You could work at a supermarket as a BAG BOY and make twice as much. Or better yet, DO WHAT I DID and GO TO COLLEGE and get a DEGREE in something that you actually CAN pursue a meaningful career in, etc. Don't waste your time with this garbage.



These companies misrepresent themselves, their goals, and their practices. They take advantage of naive young adults with promises of easy money and material gain. The only people making money are the managers, and the higher ups. DO NOT TRUST THESE COMPANIES. You will not make money, you will be miserable, you will hate going to work, and you will be wasting your time! You can make 3-4 times as much working the same hours at a REAL job, where you will ACTUALLY GET A PAYCHECK. These companies are shady, display cult-like behavior, and just are not worth the time, the effort, or the embarassment that you will have to deal with.



PS. Am I the only one who read the rebuttal from a so-called "owner" that acknowledged this IS a pyramid scam and admitted to and brushed off the sexual harrassment accusations (what?!)?? How can you condone such behavior? "Not more than any other corporation" WHAT?! A SINGLE REPORT of such behavior is TOO MUCH and should be dealt with immediately. Of course, the manager at the office I worked in also condoned and nurtured such behavior towards the females in the office with his constant improper comments to the males. It was sickening and one of the MAIN reasons I LEFT this pitiful excuse for a company.

Facts about the business:



1.) 5's and 8's: While these are part of an important foundation of most businesses, they only relate to one aspect of sales - distribution. There is nothing in the 5's and 8's that demands placing the right product in the proper market. DS-Max would have you believe that you could use the 5's and 8's to sell video games to the blind. And if you couldn't, they'd break out their infamous cliche, "this business isn't for everyone."



2.) Law of averages: This is hilarious. The law of averages relates to the fact that probability determines the outcome in the long term. Probability requires a measurable repetition of outcomes. I have yet to hear of any owner in the business that has ever kept reliable notes on performance. Furthermore, I've never once seen an independent report that could verify the number of people who have made it to the rank of Owner, Regional Director, or VP within the DS-Max system. Without these numbers your claim of fact is the mere regurgitation of an opportunity-crazed fool. You claim its fact, but where's the proof?



Then again, if you are talking about the arbitrary numbers purported by leaders and owners than yes, the law of averages is a fact. It will always work out if you just stick in there one more month while your car gets repoed and your electric gets cut off. Everybody quits (or gets fired yeah right) just before they get their big break (according to owners). This business isn't for everyone, yet everyone's opportunity is just around the corner, right?



3.) Its not a cult: Gee, you certainly have no qualms reciting the business mantra; It's not for everyone. How many times did you hear that in a day?



4.) Financially independent: What a joke! If you make it to ownership you have to submit your company name to DS-Max to have it approved. Your location is decided upon by DS-Max. You are forced to have your accounts managed by a DS-Max subsidiary. All of your contracts and merchandise is provided to you by DS-Max. If you step out of line in any way they pull their support and force you to close. In what way are you financially independent? One more question, and this ties in with #2, do they tell you how many offices have opened and folded in the DS-Max "opportunity"?



5.) It's a good-natured business: No it is not. It is a system set up to maximize profits while minimizing cost. The whole opportunity line is used to distract people from the fact that the company bilks thousands to turn a profit. They minimize responsibility ala independent contractors and incorporations. If you work for this company you must follow every guideline set forth as if you are employed by them. Yet, with these expectations you are afforded none of the priveleges of an employee, like; health/dental insurance, unemployment compensation, vacation, 401K, etc. I find it disgustingly contradictory for you to say that this is a good-natured business, and also say information may be embellished, even misleading, I'm not gonna deny it. Wow! What a great company!



Your attempt to use reverse-psychology is a lame attempt at best. (Nice try, by the way.) But, um, one problem: You said you left to pursue a more lucrative opportunity. You also alluded to the fact that you could not hack it.



Here's an idea: Instead of throwing a bunch of idealistic fallacies at us, why don't you give us some hard stats.?



Enough said!

Springfielder I know alot about the systems and how to train. I am short money everyday and cannot track where it goes. If there is anyone with the company higher in the chain out there plz message me.

Springfielder I know alot about the systems and how to train. I am short money everyday and cannot track where it goes. If there is anyone with the company higher in the chain out there plz message me.

Springfielder I know alot about the systems and how to train. I am short money everyday and cannot track where it goes. If there is anyone with the company higher in the chain out there plz message me.

Springfielder I know alot about the systems and how to train. I am short money everyday and cannot track where it goes. If there is anyone with the company higher in the chain out there plz message me.

Reading all this hooplah about DS-Max, etc. has impulsed me enough to throw in my own two cents. First off, I am a former leader in a Granton Marketing Advertising office and chose to leave the business a few weeks ago after being in it for 6 months. My primary reason for leaving the business was to pursue a new opportunity which I am currently involved with that will hopefully prove to be equally if not more lucrative than Ownership and the steps that follow.



Just to state a few FACTS about the business:

1) The 8,5, and 4 system WORKS - Proven time and time again by people who truly mastered it, attitude being most people's downfall

2) The Law of Averages works - It is a LAW, not a theory, and if the other components are in place on a continuous basis, it is fact

3) It is NOT a cult, though it is a very, very involved endeavor that is certainly not for everybody.

4) It IS a legit, albeit extraordinarily difficult opportunity to become financially independent

5) It is a good-natured business, intending to help others reach success, though it does have its pitfalls, like ANY OTHER BUSINESS



With those mentioned, I would like to add that anyone with less than, lets say 3 months in the business, truly does not know enough about the business, has not experienced enough, and does not have the hard-earned credentials to comment omniciently on a business they simply cannot wholly understand. I myself have a limited knowledge after LIVING with an owner for the entire 6-month period, though I can guarantee I know the business better than 90% of its current associates.



The bottom line is that the business is not perfect, though very few are. It is a SALES-driven business that uses sales techniques on its own members, customers, etc. Think of Diet Pill commercials and Infommercials that use puffery, clearly false testimonials, and other factors to lead consumers to lock into the product. THAT IS BUSINESS, period.



Anyone who makes a sincere attempt at this business and reaches Leadership understands that they are their OWN entity, in business for THEMSELVES, knowing that NOTHING is provided, TAXES are pending, and that while some have succeeded, the VAST majority (still an understatement) have failed or (more kindly for you softies) been unable to succeed at building a crew and getting out of the field.



It is a fact that the VPs, Regionals, and Owners did go through the field, did what most of couldn't or haven't done, and do earn a substantial income, if indeed your office is managed properly.



In short, most people (perhaps myself included) cannot hack it. They "lose their attitude" and quit. Those that make it have an extraordinary work ethic, committment to success, skill at sales and building relationships, and more likely a medley of all the above.



At the end of the day, while other opportunities do exist, this is a REAL opportunity for those ready to embark on a challenge of unprecedented proportions. Owners recognize right away who has it and who doesn't, but everyone does deserve a shot. Some information may be embellished, even misleading, I'm not gonna deny it, but from what I personally have experienced, very few owners will blatantly lie about something that may harm anybody in their office.



I am eternally grateful for the work ethic, commitment to success, and general business savvy that I attained from my DS-Max/GM experience. What any one person may take away from the business should greatly outweigh sacrifices made while in the business, and there will be plenty of sacrifice. To all doubters, haters, skeptics, Gimmels, etc., ask yourself if your loss will truly matter in a few years. Then ask yourself if the 8,5 and 4 and everything else you hopefully learned will aid you in all future undertakings. Chances are they will.



With no further adieu, my case rests. And if anyone who actually knows about the business can refute my points with a strong argument, I encourage you to do so. If not, stop your bickering and lamenting, except your mediocrity at that business (not at life, relax) and move on without discouraging BLADES that may have true potential to succeed. Enough said!

Combined Insurance? I have seen on here a lot of negative comments about outdoor sales companies such as Cydcor. However, I have not seen any information on Combined Insurance. Are they a good company to work for? Any advice would be helpful.

What i am writing about will hopefully help current people in or out of the company.



First i will explain the relationships between each of the main companies, which are Ds-Max, Granton Marketing, Cydcor.



Second i will explain the independent offices which people worked in.



Third i will explain the tax mess i am currently going through, and how uneducated some of the independent owners are.



Ds-Max: This company primarily is the filing company for all the independent offices nationwide for corporate taxes. They have hired an outsourced company Herbjoy to prepare tax forms for each company. Herb and Joyce are actually the parents of Executive VP Larry Tenenbaum of Ds-max. The division associated with dsmax is the clearance division now called innovage. These reps are 1099, independent contractors. Its called innovage now, i beleive because of all the bad reports towards dsmax. the clearance/innovage legally needed to be its own entity so dsmax could not be responsible legally.



Granton Marketing out of Toronto Canada, it is its' own entity separate from dsmax. They are just a printing company of the advertising certificates that reps sell door to door or business.Examples are clients like papa johns, subway, sports team and so on.The president is ian ringle, hope i spelled his name right, he is a cool guy. They supply these certificates to the advertising offices. Again these reps are 1099 independent contractors.



Cydcor is its own entity as well separate from dsmax. The reps in this division are actuall w2 not indpendent contractors. Communication is the division associated. Examples of there clients are AT&T, Quill office supply, water companies ect...This is the division i became an independent owner in.



When your hired into the company, you are not hired by Dsmax, innovage, granton, or cydcor. you are hired by an independent corporation formed by an individule who went through a management training program. Some good ones some terrible ones. Its a tough training program, it will become your life. Those of you that had bad experieces through the training program, i feel for you, however the real mess is when you get into ownership.



I was an owner for a couple of years in the cydcor division. The way it worked is my reps would sign up companies for services such as merchant bank card service, or office supply supplies like Quill. A check would be made out to Cycor from the client that i represented and then a check to my company for applications completed. The problem was that more often than not the client i represented would decline the application so my company would not be paid, therefore my reps would not get paid. The reconciliation process was horrible. this is the main reason why i quit because my reps worked so hard and did not get paid. Sorry to all my reps, when i become a millionaire i will find you and hopefully compensate you.



So when i did finally shut down i asked about how all my corporate taxes would be handled. Then i find out that my first year in business my corporate taxes were never sent in. Then i find out the person suppose to do this got fired. Oh yeah i had to use herbjoy and pay them 91.00 per week to file my taxes and they never did. However through many long distant phone calls to canada it finally was all fixed. Except who is going to pay for the late penaties to the irs and my phone bill to canada to resolve the matter, oh, thats me.



Last but not least to the uneducated business owners, who is on your board of directors. When you become incorporated in the state your doing business in you get a black binder that has your stock certificates, bylaws, and minute reports that you have to send each year to the state. If you do not the state does not recognize your corporation so if you get sued, its you that gets sued, not the corporation you incorporated. So elect your board of directors, send off your minute reports so you protect yourself. Also make sure you do business in your own state, my problem as well was that other offices from other states would do business in my city, without a license to do busines in my state. Basically took money away from me and my state. Enough for now, i am sure i put anyone that reads asleep, but for people that were owners and quit make sure that company herbjoy filled your taxes so you dont get screwed. Peace out!

Carl,

Wow, are you lucky! Or are you lying? Best system on the planet? Please..... I'm glad you opened 2 new offices. But how many people did you have to cheat and lie to, to get where you are today? Five, ten, 150? You lie to people on a daily basis! How can you live with yourself? Go out and work hard? I'm easily making 7X what I was making in the field. To say that we are uneducated? I got a degree from college...I got a new job where I tell the truth on a regular basis, and get a fat paycheck every 2 weeks....GUARANTEED! Wow, what a concept. You are a blind fool with no morals, and it sickens me to see the pro ds-max people on this site. If there wasn't a problem with the company, then why did you come here? Shouldn't you be in the field with you "team", or retraining someone? In the back of your head you must really know that you are the scum of the earth or you wouldn't waste your time here trying to convince people what a great opportunity it is. Knock on my door, and I'll knock in your face. Juice by that!

Carl,



Based on your post I have a good idea of what you do and it failed miserably in the US.



Financial service? Barely. You are in the Credico division. Your company solicits credit card applications to an unsuspecting populace.



Of course financial institutions utilize your company - the labor is dirt cheap. But what is really disturbing is that a credit card is something that consumers should be seeking out, not the other way around.



You push credit card applications on people who aren't ready for a credit card for your own gain. Change that, you convince others to do it for you by promoting some bogus opportunity.



PS - People were skeptical about the Titanic, and they were right.

I am an owner in Liverpool in the UK, in the financial service sector of the Cobra Group plc. Whose parent company is DSMAX.



It is testement to the success of the system that we now work with major world leading financial institutions, such as MBNA and major British Banks.



Ask yourself a simple question. If the business was a scam, or cult, would major financial institutions, charities want to work with us.



One thing that is apparant is that the negative, and harmful, comments come from people who spent little time in the company and naturally have a sceptical mind that probably stems from lack of self-belief, which is evident from there lack of success in the company.



I got promoted a year ago and spent 16 months on the field. I have no saved over 60,000 ($100,000) and have opened two outside deals, which is the most phenominal of feelings.



If there's any guy's in the business reading these pages. Ignore the comments of the un-educated, you'll find there claims have no substance.



Im not going to lie, the business isn't for everyone! Not everyone makes it to running there own business! These people though learn self confidence, leadership, that will lead them to success in other fields of work. Thats not an issue. To say that the business is a scam is completely obsured.



I have guys at this moment working there a*s off for the same opportunity that I have, and I am going to work as hard as I can to ensure they have this opportunity.



The success of the business is phenominal, and it will carry on going. Every success story has sceptics, and people who doubt it. No-one thought the four minute mile was possible. People rubbished the claim that man could walk on the moon.



I beg you, realise your potential! Be strong and follow your heart! Things do happen if you try hard enough! I promise!!!!!!

I am an owner in Liverpool in the UK, in the financial service sector of the Cobra Group plc. Whose parent company is DSMAX.



It is testement to the success of the system that we now work with major world leading financial institutions, such as MBNA and major British Banks.



Ask yourself a simple question. If the business was a scam, or cult, would major financial institutions, charities want to work with us.



One thing that is apparant is that the negative, and harmful, comments come from people who spent little time in the company and naturally have a sceptical mind that probably stems from lack of self-belief, which is evident from there lack of success in the company.



I got promoted a year ago and spent 16 months on the field. I have no saved over 60,000 ($100,000) and have opened two outside deals, which is the most phenominal of feelings.



If there's any guy's in the business reading these pages. Ignore the comments of the un-educated, you'll find there claims have no substance.



Im not going to lie, the business isn't for everyone! Not everyone makes it to running there own business! These people though learn self confidence, leadership, that will lead them to success in other fields of work. Thats not an issue. To say that the business is a scam is completely obsured.



I have guys at this moment working there a*s off for the same opportunity that I have, and I am going to work as hard as I can to ensure they have this opportunity.



The success of the business is phenominal, and it will carry on going. Every success story has sceptics, and people who doubt it. No-one thought the four minute mile was possible. People rubbished the claim that man could walk on the moon.



I beg you, realise your potential! Be strong and follow your heart! Things do happen if you try hard enough! I promise!!!!!!

Barney from Quincy....Even Malthus had more humanity!



Earlier Barney from Quincy wrote:



"Are people's lives ruined? Sometimes, but those people weren't going to make it anyway, and the fact they couldn't learn a simple system and educate only five other people is the proof. How much do you expect to earn if you can't even do 20% of the work of a school teacher earning 20k a year? Its a matter of social Darwinism. There are no free rides in the world. Life sucks. We're all dealt from the same deck. Those who want to cry about the rules are better off dead."



This is the most cold and callous thing I have ever read. As a teacher and someone who worked for a Cydcor office for a month, I can tell you that distributors work 120+% more than most teachers and that most teachers earn more than 20k a year. However, that issue is a red herring. My real problem is that your comments show a lack of basic human empathy. Perhaps people "weren't going to make it anyway", if you define "it" solely as success in B2B sales, but does that give anyone the right to ruin someone else financially? Would you trip someone that was blind on the theory that they were going to fall anyway? Or are the handicapped better off dead? According to your social Darwinism, maybe.



Furthermore, your comment that "Those who want to cry about the rules are better off dead" is chilling. It is just too close to what Stalin or Lenin might have said, or to the slogans from "1984" or "A Brave New World". Perhaps a better quote might be "Those who are unwilling to question the rules are already intellectually dead".



I, like many of these posters, am open to opportunities and learned much from my month at CydCor. I actually like many of my former associates. However, posts like yours make me question the company as a whole. Believe me, in no other large company would a "owner" defend his business in the manner which you chose.



Good luck to everyone who posts here, no matter your path.

Only a fool after working there would actully really believe that these people are making six figures.



Yes I myself believed it before i started working there.... why???



If i had half a brain i would have been able to tell by the dumpy a*s offices, and the crappy cars, (if the owners could even afford one)that these owners are most definately not making squat for money.



Lets put this into perspective. You guys know the local malls you live by? Well maybe not the ds-max/cydcor people, but for those of us that have spare time! Look at the stores there. My manager in my office had six people in the office. That's right six!!! I saw how much we all made and how many apps we signed up a week.



Now think of your mall. Is there any store in that mall that makes less money a day than most of these offices do?



How many managers in the mall can say they make six figure income? How many need to lie to people to get them to work for them? Have any of you seen hard working people ever in a mall? I know i have...(not many) i used to be one of those hard workers back in high school. I worked full time and still had a life. You know this is the mall we're talking about yet its still an upgrade from any dsmax/cydor job you could ever get.



My point is only suckie jobs need to lie to their employees on a daily basis in hoping for them to even consider working for them , or for them to actually return for more hell.



The stores in the mall make more money than these crappy offices do and the managers in these stores probably moke more money than the ds-max managers also. After all how much money can a ds-max manager possible make off of a calculator that was sold for $2.50?



Atleast in a mall your on a salary or hourly rate. My point being any mall job is better than anything, or any kind of future you could possible get by working for dssuck or shitcor.



So come on people wise up and get a real job with benefits and vacation time. Oh yeah and normal hours, because some day your going to wish you had never heard of shitcore like the most of us that are writing here. All that we are trying to do is hopefully save others from making the same mistakes we made.



This is no opportunity. Its an end to your finances, friends, family, and self-confidence.



Don't be fools, learn from our mistakes!

I should have looked up all this info days ago

i knew something wasnt right when i went for the first interview the office looked like crap the managers there made it sound so good get passed

entery level and work your way up make lots of money sounds like a dream job hay thats what i thought when i went to the 2nd interview right.

They said i would be able to see how the company works little did i know i would be outside in the middle of winter (calgary,albert)going door to door with this so called manager talking up a storm of how i could gain from working with them

no base pay,100% commision of those cards you sell its just a piss of of the time i wasted so thanks to everyone for the warning i was thinking about going back ahhahahaha ya right!!!!



so im done ranting those of you how read this in the future graton marketing and all its offices around usa and canada (its bullshit)

Andrew, the reason why so many people complain about cydcor is because:



They lie to get you there- just look at one of the many monster.com job postings.



They brainwash you- i.e. they try to make you believe that you're a loser if you're not in sales, or can't succeed in their company.



They overwork you- but you're given the hours before hand(they say 8-6, but they force you to be there a lot longer than that).



The payment is horrible- most of the leaders there are barely getting by.



They have a cult like atmosphere- don't need to comment on this.



So on, so on. I'm not going to personally complain, but that's why people are badmouthing the company.



I'm also pretty sure that all the cydcor companies in the nation use all of the above practices.



Personally, I feel like I got a lot out of my time as a cydcor representative. I learned a lot, I developed better sales skills(I'm still in sales right now), and I've learned the real importance of integrity.



Integrity is treating people the way you want to be treated.



Cydcor preaches integrity, but do they practice it... NO!



I've learned that without integrity, your sales career will be cut short one way or another. Either you'll quit sales altoghter, or try to get up to management so you don't have to sell face-to-face.



But integrity builds good relationships with clients, and cydcor clearly doesn't care too much about their clients. For a long term career in face-to-face selling, integrity is the most essential key.



So for all of you leaders and distributors out there, don't plan on selling the rest of your life if you use cydcor's shady selling techniques.



And remember, a very small % of you will ever move up to management!

I am a current owner in ds-max. I am part of the clearance division. i have been involved in the company for years and have been on both sides of the fence. In fact, I quit the company for a year

and rejoined after running my own successful distribution company. I rejoined because I enjoy recieving products on a consignment rather than cash up front.



I do however find it interesting that many of the "disgruntal" distributors seem to be reaching for reasons on why they did not acheive some sort of success within the company. Ds-max and MOST of its owners are fairly simple to read. We do this to make money. Anyone that tells you they just want to see people succeed is not telling the whole truth. The facts are however, our level of success is really dependent on how successful you can help others become. To generalize every owner in the company as a scam artist is unjust. as I saw in an earlier article, If you did acheive what you set out to do we would have never heard from you.



Truth be told though, there are shady owners out there. It took me six years in this company to finally realize what I think might have saved many of you your apparent greif. That fact is that as a distributor, assistant manager, or owner you must understand that YOU are running YOUR own business. As a bussiness owner you must also realize that YOU are the individual responsible for your rate of success. That encompasses stepping up to the plate and voicing your opinions and concerns to those higher up.

though I dont expect many of you to be open enough to accept this, how many of you actually talked to your manager or owner about your concerns? How many of you were humble and brave enough to ask for help or question a particular action of your owner/manager? I am willing to bet most of you did not. You proboably just reacted. You got excited about the opportunity/cash, ran into some obsticles, and did what most of us in the real world do-look for people or instances to blame for our failure. This is understandable, no-one likes to fail, especially when they have a sincire belife that they will succeed.

Do i agree with everything ds-max does?? NO!

Do i think everyone involved in the company is true, and has my best interest in mind? NO!

but that my friends is bussiness. And in bussiness you keep one eye on the ball and the other on the feild.



THE FACTS ARE HOWEVER THAT i HAVE BUILT MANY RELATIONSHIPS, AND ACHEIVED A LEVEL OF SUCCESS THAT SPARKS MY INTREST TO ACHEIVE MORE. ALL OF THIS WITHOUT HAVING TO SCREW ANYONE!! MAYBE MORE OWNERS SHOULD BE HONEST WITH THERE PEOPLE. MAYBE MORE OF YOU SHOULD BE HONEST WITH YOURSELVES.

good luck to all!!



REALITY CHECK-

I am a current owner in ds-max. I am part of the clearance division. i have been involved in the company for years and have been on both sides of the fence. In fact, I quit the company for a year

and rejoined after running my own successful distribution company. I rejoined because I enjoy recieving products on a consignment rather than cash up front.



I do however find it interesting that many of the "disgruntal" distributors seem to be reaching for reasons on why they did not acheive some sort of success within the company. Ds-max and MOST of its owners are fairly simple to read. We do this to make money. Anyone that tells you they just want to see people succeed is not telling the whole truth. The facts are however, our level of success is really dependent on how successful you can help others become. To generalize every owner in the company as a scam artist is unjust. as I saw in an earlier article, If you did acheive what you set out to do we would have never heard from you.



Truth be told though, there are shady owners out there. It took me six years in this company to finally realize what I think might have saved many of you your apparent greif. That fact is that as a distributor, assistant manager, or owner you must understand that YOU are running YOUR own business. As a bussiness owner you must also realize that YOU are the individual responsible for your rate of success. That encompasses stepping up to the plate and voicing your opinions and concerns to those higher up.

though I dont expect many of you to be open enough to accept this, how many of you actually talked to your manager or owner about your concerns? How many of you were humble and brave enough to ask for help or question a particular action of your owner/manager? I am willing to bet most of you did not. You proboably just reacted. You got excited about the opportunity/cash, ran into some obsticles, and did what most of us in the real world do-look for people or instances to blame for our failure. This is understandable, no-one likes to fail, especially when they have a sincire belife that they will succeed.

Do i agree with everything ds-max does?? NO!

Do i think everyone involved in the company is true, and has my best interest in mind? NO!

but that my friends is bussiness. And in bussiness you keep one eye on the ball and the other on the feild.



THE FACTS ARE HOWEVER THAT i HAVE BUILT MANY RELATIONSHIPS, AND ACHEIVED A LEVEL OF SUCCESS THAT SPARKS MY INTREST TO ACHEIVE MORE. ALL OF THIS WITHOUT HAVING TO SCREW ANYONE!! MAYBE MORE OWNERS SHOULD BE HONEST WITH THERE PEOPLE. MAYBE MORE OF YOU SHOULD BE HONEST WITH YOURSELVES.

good luck to all!!



REALITY CHECK-

I am a current owner in ds-max. I am part of the clearance division. i have been involved in the company for years and have been on both sides of the fence. In fact, I quit the company for a year

and rejoined after running my own successful distribution company. I rejoined because I enjoy recieving products on a consignment rather than cash up front.



I do however find it interesting that many of the "disgruntal" distributors seem to be reaching for reasons on why they did not acheive some sort of success within the company. Ds-max and MOST of its owners are fairly simple to read. We do this to make money. Anyone that tells you they just want to see people succeed is not telling the whole truth. The facts are however, our level of success is really dependent on how successful you can help others become. To generalize every owner in the company as a scam artist is unjust. as I saw in an earlier article, If you did acheive what you set out to do we would have never heard from you.



Truth be told though, there are shady owners out there. It took me six years in this company to finally realize what I think might have saved many of you your apparent greif. That fact is that as a distributor, assistant manager, or owner you must understand that YOU are running YOUR own business. As a bussiness owner you must also realize that YOU are the individual responsible for your rate of success. That encompasses stepping up to the plate and voicing your opinions and concerns to those higher up.

though I dont expect many of you to be open enough to accept this, how many of you actually talked to your manager or owner about your concerns? How many of you were humble and brave enough to ask for help or question a particular action of your owner/manager? I am willing to bet most of you did not. You proboably just reacted. You got excited about the opportunity/cash, ran into some obsticles, and did what most of us in the real world do-look for people or instances to blame for our failure. This is understandable, no-one likes to fail, especially when they have a sincire belife that they will succeed.

Do i agree with everything ds-max does?? NO!

Do i think everyone involved in the company is true, and has my best interest in mind? NO!

but that my friends is bussiness. And in bussiness you keep one eye on the ball and the other on the feild.



THE FACTS ARE HOWEVER THAT i HAVE BUILT MANY RELATIONSHIPS, AND ACHEIVED A LEVEL OF SUCCESS THAT SPARKS MY INTREST TO ACHEIVE MORE. ALL OF THIS WITHOUT HAVING TO SCREW ANYONE!! MAYBE MORE OWNERS SHOULD BE HONEST WITH THERE PEOPLE. MAYBE MORE OF YOU SHOULD BE HONEST WITH YOURSELVES.

good luck to all!!



REALITY CHECK-

I am a current owner in ds-max. I am part of the clearance division. i have been involved in the company for years and have been on both sides of the fence. In fact, I quit the company for a year

and rejoined after running my own successful distribution company. I rejoined because I enjoy recieving products on a consignment rather than cash up front.



I do however find it interesting that many of the "disgruntal" distributors seem to be reaching for reasons on why they did not acheive some sort of success within the company. Ds-max and MOST of its owners are fairly simple to read. We do this to make money. Anyone that tells you they just want to see people succeed is not telling the whole truth. The facts are however, our level of success is really dependent on how successful you can help others become. To generalize every owner in the company as a scam artist is unjust. as I saw in an earlier article, If you did acheive what you set out to do we would have never heard from you.



Truth be told though, there are shady owners out there. It took me six years in this company to finally realize what I think might have saved many of you your apparent greif. That fact is that as a distributor, assistant manager, or owner you must understand that YOU are running YOUR own business. As a bussiness owner you must also realize that YOU are the individual responsible for your rate of success. That encompasses stepping up to the plate and voicing your opinions and concerns to those higher up.

though I dont expect many of you to be open enough to accept this, how many of you actually talked to your manager or owner about your concerns? How many of you were humble and brave enough to ask for help or question a particular action of your owner/manager? I am willing to bet most of you did not. You proboably just reacted. You got excited about the opportunity/cash, ran into some obsticles, and did what most of us in the real world do-look for people or instances to blame for our failure. This is understandable, no-one likes to fail, especially when they have a sincire belife that they will succeed.

Do i agree with everything ds-max does?? NO!

Do i think everyone involved in the company is true, and has my best interest in mind? NO!

but that my friends is bussiness. And in bussiness you keep one eye on the ball and the other on the feild.



THE FACTS ARE HOWEVER THAT i HAVE BUILT MANY RELATIONSHIPS, AND ACHEIVED A LEVEL OF SUCCESS THAT SPARKS MY INTREST TO ACHEIVE MORE. ALL OF THIS WITHOUT HAVING TO SCREW ANYONE!! MAYBE MORE OWNERS SHOULD BE HONEST WITH THERE PEOPLE. MAYBE MORE OF YOU SHOULD BE HONEST WITH YOURSELVES.

good luck to all!!



REALITY CHECK-

Most of the complaints I read fall into one of four categories: false advertising in the recruiting process, lack of proper payment of commissions, brainwashing, and debt at the hands of DS-Max et al.



False advertising - you're right. It's the 'ol bait and switch. I mean, who would interview for a job that they new entailed such enduring work. It's the same bait and switch that every one of us apply on our resumes though, isn't it? I've seen, "facilitated the correspondence processes for upper level management", which really means "sorted the mail", but do we write that? of course not. no one wants to hire the mail sorter. They want the facilitator. we advertise ourselves to prospective employers in the image we want them to see, yet often don't follow through on those expectations. I've been hired by plenty of places who give you a brief initial interview, describe one thing, hire you, and task you with something else entirely.



Lack of Payment - This I don't quite understand. I thought that DS-Max and Granton paid cash daily? How can you not be paid properly when you have the cash in your hand before you even get back to the office? This problem does exist in Cydcor, because you have 20-something nitwits running the show (i.e. Sarabeth King, San Diego).



Brainwashing - I...am...not...brainwashed...still not convinced? I looked at Cydcor like "business bootcamp". At the end of Army bootcamp you are unleashed as a trained killer. At the end of "business bootcamp" you are unleashed as a trained salesperson. Some soldiers go on to win the congressional medal of honor, some go on to use their marksmanship skills from the trunks of cars in DC. Both came through the same system, one had morals, the other did not.



Debt - really no defense here. You will get in debt working for DS-Max and Granton. It's not s****.> If you are reading these threads, and feel the need to comment on any of the aforementioned general criticisms, keep one thing in mind. The system that DS-Max et al developed is clean in and of itself. It's the people, and the avarice of mankind that pollutes it and turns it into the horror stories you see here.

Ds max is a cult I worked there for just over a month fresh out of university. I like many of you answered a job advertisment in the paper and went along to the first round interview. Appeared very promising tommorow I would be getting to meet clients!!!!!!!!!! What a joke. I do not know about anyone else but I thought these clients were Disney ect not general strangers on the street.



The ob day was funny I went out with a complete half wit of a trainer who seemed to suffer from a severe case of selective hearing.



Ok the job I loved getting up at 5 in the morning everyday for a job that made my feet hurt and gave my a complex everyday on the feild. I worked 6 days a week on 5 hours sleep a day I lost 1 stone in less than 3 weeks I was too tiered to talk to my friends I ignored my family I was to tiered to do anything else, my life consisted of DS MAX and I was tragic.



They make working 16 hour days for less than minimum wage appear to be an attractive career path. They think that running yourself into the ground to make DS MAX substantial profit is good grounds for promotion. They expect you to walk about with a permanent smile on your face and kiss everyones a*s in atmosphere for the benifit of the "new guys". Flirt openly with srangers on the field to make sales and generally degrade yourself in the process.



What a load of shite done are my days of lugging about three heavy bags full of merch that does not work or does not sell. Done are my days of sucking up to pretentious arse licking consiously immune idiots who think that everything DS MAX has to offer is a "GOOD DEAL"



If my boyfriend was not a crew manager for ds max I would be free from that soul destroying organisation. I pity those of you who are working or should I say slaving away for that morally corrupt organisation that is DS MAX.

I have ambivalent feelings about Cydcor and DS-Max....



I went through the interview process at SAS Marketing in San Francisco. My guess is that the Jason that replied earlier in this thread is the same Jason Winkler that runs SAS in San Francisco, that I interviewed with.



Everyone I met at SAS was very nice. I noticed some rather gaping holes in some of the logic that I was presented, and based on this I chose to not work for SAS.



I hear alot of anger in the above posts- understantably so. After my second interview I had a pretty good idea about what SAS and Cydcor were all about. Nobody can make you work for somebody else. It seemed rather apparent that this was going to be a difficult, tiring job, with some degree of uncertainty as to what my take-home pay would be. As a recent college graduate with a degree in Marketing, along with several years experience as the marketing manager for a local restraunt that grossed over 1 million dollars a year, it distresses me that so many people are so lacking in financial planning, budgeting, etc. as to take a job with such an unclear pay structure.



I decided not to work for SAS and to continue living off the scant amount of money I had holed away to support myself while I looked for a career job in marketing. Two months and alot of couch-surfing later, I have finally found a job that meets my expectations for career advancement and earnings potential. I am making $25,000 a year base, with up to $19,500 extra possible through a very generous comission structure, full medical, dental, on-site gym, 3 weeks vacation, etc.



To all you cydcor people saying that it isn't easy to succeed, you're right. I have no doubt that a trial by fire type of job environment will make you a better person in the long run. However... take a step back and ask yourself whether it was easier to take a easy-in, easy-out job with little or no guarantees, or to search longer for a more rewarding, long-term job.



To all you people who feel you got used, you did. By yourself. Nobody made you take the job. If it isn't for you, thats fine. Just realize that you sold your own potential short, leave it at that, and move on.

I went through the program last year. After about 7 months I called it quits. at one point i had up to 9 guys on my team, 2 of them leaders. almost on my way. when my money ran out i quit and got a job that actually paid me. a few weeks before i quit i started dating a girl that was a new-hire.



My old boss and some of the old leaders worked very hard to sabotage our relationship once i left, and in the end i lost a ton of money and a great girl to ds-max. but one thing is good: i know the system, and i know it well. so to all you leaders out there, i'm coming for you. i blame all of you for damaging my life and the lives of millions of others, so i'm going to start scamming you. i'm going to offices all over the midwest. i'll do the day of O, the three training days, get my first day bonus, and after investing a week, i'll walk out of your office with over $400. what's even better is that you'll buy me lunch all week. so watch out and keep pouring money into your new-hires, because i'm coming to scam the scam.

Jj and Todd, you guys are so right! As we were sitting here reading these rebuttals we were laughing because we noticed that the people who had moved past the "company," seemed to be much more literate than the ones who were representing them. It reminds me of when I worked there and a couple of real gung h*o, supposed "future owners" would do impacts. They were always spelling wrong and putting words together incorrectly. It used to drive me nuts. I would say something in a joking and unhurtful manner. I guess they consided that not to be positive so they would say, "You don't have to know how to spell to be an owner." Of course that is true but I guess I just have a higher standard for myself!

Reading these rebuttals has been soooooo healing! I actually thought I wanted to go back and work for them to become my own boss {you know, that perpetual carrot they dangle before your face,}. Therefore, I have an open mind. What I find sad is that the people who are still in the early stages and under the, "brainwashing," are not allowing themselves to be objectionable. I mean come on now, when you can read for yourself the comments that even PAST OWNERS who, have been there, are saying and can still decide to defend the, "company," THAT is brainwashing!

Please read my complaint dated 7~19~03 and ignore mine on 7~17~03. They are alike except that these rebuttals fueled my fire so that the latter one is more complete.



I also wanted to add that what really cracks me up is the couple of people who have come on here defending the company right and left but they are no longer working there!



Thank~you!

Most of these owners can't even write a business letter - let alone keep track of peoples earnings.



That is why they want you to be always out in the field selling. They tell you that "learning the management end of the business" will come at the end of the program. That you will learn all about the book keeping and banking and everything else necessary to run a business.



Is that why so many offices fail? Is that why so many people have problems with their checks? Is that why so many of these owners represent their organization so poorly with their poorly worded responses on this site?

In my opinion, it seems that all of the employees have extremely poor writing skills. This may seem negligible, but I hold it as being a good way to gauge the business model and culture of the organization.



To the owner of DC Advertizing in Quincy:

I have a freind that went in for an interveiw and I was told the person who interveiwed him was dressed in jeans and a polo shirt with hip-hop music playing in the office. I also worked at an organization where your sales associates misled my boss into buying a phone plan that eventually cost more than double the rates presented. While I was working, one of your young female associates handed me a crumpled business card out of her sweaty palm and told me to call for a job.



What kind of sales practice is it to go into a place of business, screw the owner, and then try to steal an employee?



The way I see the employees on this site defend the business practices is laughable. "This is how the Corporate world is..." etc... It is sad that you owners/employees actually think a reputible company would operate using this business model.



Q-Why are all these scam businesses answering the phone, "Advertising Agency!" ?



A-Because they are listed under multiple brandings.



Now try and ask yourself why a company would do this...



This multiple-name listing tactic is deceptive and unfair to consumers and applicants.



Also, when you are an "owner" of a business and you are not posting annonymously, you may want to consider having someone who passed Composition 1&2 write for you. You are representing your branch and you truly are killing the credibility with your lack of professionalism.

James,



Thanks for educating me about the BBB. Your input (and the link) was indeed helpful, and your criticism of DSMAX /Cydcor was not something I meant, in anyway, to discourage. (Such criticism was instrumental in my decision to quit my job, remember). I do strongly suspect that there is enough dishonesty within the business to merit investigation. My suggestion to file a complaint with the BBB was, in its naivte, earnest. Perhaps it will do no good for the very reasons you suggest. However, it can't hurt.



I encourage those who feel they have been wronged by this company to explore every avenue of consumer action available to them. I am not saying that any or all of them will result in immediate justice or any justice at all. For example, due to my concerns, I have made an inquiry to the BBB about this company (do I expect any response? no, I honestly don't), and I have contacted a local consumer reporter (do I expect any response? again the answer is no). My point is, if you have a legitimate complaint or concern, do something.



Most people, like myself, will probably be dismissed or forgotten about, but someone, somewhere is bound to hit pay dirt, *if* indeed this company is operating in an illegal, unethical or dishonest manner. Will it bring DSMAX/Cydcor to its knees? Probably not. Is it at least a step toward some degree of justice? Let's find out.

To hear you - one would think you are an owner.



I have heard of Sean and Tammy. As the business goes - they are pretty d**n good. But even in their office - think about all the scamming that went on. From hiring people who were dishonest to selling bad campaigns.



What about the amount of turn around that you must have seen and all the guys that lost money - just for wanting a job!?



Look over the list of cult symptoms that has been placed a few times on this sight. Seriously ask your self how many of those questions apply to ds-max. If you are honest with your self, you find that they almost ALL apply!



Even if your owners were as good as you say they are.

To hear you - one would think you are an owner.



I have heard of Sean and Tammy. As the business goes - they are pretty d**n good. But even in their office - think about all the scamming that went on. From hiring people who were dishonest to selling bad campaigns.



What about the amount of turn around that you must have seen and all the guys that lost money - just for wanting a job!?



Look over the list of cult symptoms that has been placed a few times on this sight. Seriously ask your self how many of those questions apply to ds-max. If you are honest with your self, you find that they almost ALL apply!



Even if your owners were as good as you say they are.

To hear you - one would think you are an owner.



I have heard of Sean and Tammy. As the business goes - they are pretty d**n good. But even in their office - think about all the scamming that went on. From hiring people who were dishonest to selling bad campaigns.



What about the amount of turn around that you must have seen and all the guys that lost money - just for wanting a job!?



Look over the list of cult symptoms that has been placed a few times on this sight. Seriously ask your self how many of those questions apply to ds-max. If you are honest with your self, you find that they almost ALL apply!



Even if your owners were as good as you say they are.

The BBB is a country club of businesses. It is similar to the way the EPA makes money. They are supposed to watch out for the environment - but for most companies, paying a fine to the EPA is cheaper than opperating under the alternative. The EPA could raise the fines, but that would be a disgrace to all the representatives who count on the questioned company's campaign dollars.



People come here because they do a direct search for DS-Max. This site pops up.



I will continue to criticize DS-Max's ethics on all levels. On top of that, I have one simple request: Show us an independant study or audit that confirms the claims owners make world-wide to hire unsuspecting victims. If a guy asks a girl back to his place, and then rapes her, are you gonna blame the girl for going there in the first place?

I am an ex-employee of Cydcor. I worked for the company 2 weeks and quit. While I had both positive and negative experiences during my stint as a distributor, this website was instrumental in my decision to leave abruptly. However, I am not spiteful against the company. I did quit because I had too many concerns about the legitimacy of the company and about my *present* finances. (Yes, it's nice to have an opportunity to make money, and yes, some people do, but what about *this* month's rent, *this* month's phone bill?)



Due to my concern, I logged on to the Better Business Bureau website. I did not find a single complaint filed against Cydcor (although I did not check out DSMAX). If these companies are so corrupt, why has no one bothered to file a complaint? (Mind you, I am not berating anyone about this, merely posing the question). What I did find, however, was somewhat interesting. Apparently, the BBB has *requested* information from this company, but Cydcor has *refused* to provide any information. Would anyone care to comment about this? Also, I found that *one* out of several Cydcor offices in Atlanta is associated with the BBB. Anyone who wants to try their luck with this company in Atlanta should do it with this office.



I myself have moved on to a salaried position in order to ensure I will remain solvent (although I did not do that bad at Cydcor; however, I have yet to receive my check in order to judge how honest and fair they are about paying what's been promised for a hard day's work). I will never look back, nor will I ever second guess my decision. For those out there who are working for Cydcor/DSMAX, etc., are happy *and* are making good money, good for you. Carry on. I don't believe you all are necessarily doing anything wrong, but for those of you who are struggling to pay your bills, leave, get out. You need to look out for #1 (which, by the way, means *you*, *not* the company). And if you have a legitimate complaint, contact the BBB; you have nothing to lose by doing it, and it will only go towards helping others.

"I have to tell you, not all offices are the same. Everyone in here is stuck on the fact that all offices work the same way. Well get over yourselves people. Just like every person is different, every owner runs there office diferently. Thats the beauty of it."



So your owner placed an ad that said:



"100% commission, expected hours averaging 72 per week; chanting is a must; door-to-door in blistering heat or freezing cold while wearing a five-peice-suit; expect lower than minimum wage; have a car cause we'll use it and stick you with the insurance, gas, maintenance, and resale value while we profit. We can turn that frown upside down with group "atmosphere." If you are willing to short-change yourself for a lottery's chance of short-changing others, apply immediatly with (insert generic name).



This is the standard. It is not only coast-to-coast, but continent-to-continent. Be aware. The promise is empty, I garauntee. Do a search on DS-Max and you will find more harm than good. Go to their web-site. Critically look at the content. It is completely devoid of any kind of substance. Would you expect that kind of informational vacancy from a stand-up company, or any company that claims to make billions a year?



Think about it.

Ok.....now everyone listen to me. I worked for DS-MAX for just under a year, From Feb. 01'-Dec.01'. I started just like the rest of you, and the same way everyone else did, "I just answered an ad in the paper".



I am a very money motivated person. Don't get me wrong, I'm not materialistic, but I do like nice things, who dosen't. When I started the business I was 18 years old. I had to take time off of college for financial reasons and was living with my girlfriend, so I needed a job. I never thought I would end up in a sales atmosphere. I was a sports medicine major.



I have to tell you, not all offices are the same. Everyone in here is stuck on the fact that all offices work the same way. Well get over yourselves people. Just like every person is different, every owner runs there office diferently. Thats the beauty of it.



I worked out of the Communications Division in the San Fernando Valley. My owners were awesome. They were regional directors (Tammy & Sean)and were making BANK. They had a total number of 13 outside deals, but only 4 of them were direct. They needed to put out only one more by company standards to become V.P.'s.



When Murray first came back in the business they where on his team. So they know Murray directly. He was at our office at least twice a month giving us pointers, helping us, and telling us how he did it. How many of you people out there complaining actually got to shake his hand? Did any of you ever listen to an impact run by him? Did any of you ever have to run an impact or a morning meeting with him in front of you? How many of you went to his house, met his son, or drove his Porshe? I'm guessing none of you. Most owners can't even say that. So yeah, I have a totally different view than any of you out there. I'm not trying to put any of you down, but comon people alot of the comments being made are horribly wrong.



Working for DS-MAX was one of the hardest but most rewarding experience's I've had to this day. I'm not the best salesman out there but I made sure I was doing at least one ap a day which was $85+. And the law of averages...it works. You will have to see 100+ people per day, but when you think about it, its really not that many.



We worked CSI, which some of you may know is/was the hardest, but most money making campaign DS-MAX had/has. What people didn't/don't realize is that you don't need to be the best salesman to make money at this company, there are other ways. If you were cosistantly making money in our office, you were the one to take a day of O out. I started making pretty decent money when once I learned how to build people. And when I learned how to teach my crew to do one to two apps a day, at the end of two weeks I was getting an extra $400-$500 added to my pay check on over- rides alone. I just needed to show my guys that I could make money. Yeah sure one or two days out of the week I might not get any apps, but then again, one or two days I might get two or three. My point being you don't have to be the best salesman in the world to make money. Some of the best owners didn't make that much in the field. Everyone pays there dues and if you're smart you can find other ways to make money.



I met quite a few owners and VP's in my time. I got daily job offers in the field from people I was pitching. I wasn't trying to cheat anyone out there. I never did. s**t, I went back to the same people who gladly bought whatever was in my hand because they trusted me. It's all about who you learn from. Like I said all offices are different.



I've seen many offices get shut down because the owner wasn't checking his guys. And these were not little offices either they made good money. One owner was fired right in front of me because his guys were screwing people over in the field. They were lying to the customers face, it was horrible. This was a San Francisco office running an AT&T campaign. So no, the company isn't out trying to mess with anyone. It's a combonation of the reps in the feild and the owner not dong a good job with his guys.



Thanks to DS-MAX, I have some of the best memories of times like staying in motels on road trips. I went to Vegas twice (for work), all over northern and southern cali, went to Nevada, various cities in Oregon, and I even moved up to Seattle for three and a half months. The only expenses I ever had to cover was my food and half of the gas that I used when we were actually in our destination city. Hotels, motels, food on the way up and back, gas on the way up and back...all payed for.



So where's the problem? Whats to complain about? Sure it was hard work, but didn't all of our parents teach us that if we want to do well in school and get good grades, that we'll have to study our asses off? And isn't it true that some kids (particularly the asian ones j/k) school just seemed to come natural to them? Same thing people. It takes a certain type of person to handle this type of job. I wouldn't recommend it to someone who is resposible for a family, and I will admit it was hard being away from my girlfriend long hours all day and on road trips; But you gotta take risks in life. It's a proven fact. If you don't try, how do you know?



Like I said, it's not for everyone. But if you're ambitious, if you want an opportunity of a life time, then go for it. Your family will talk s**t, friends will laugh, and it takes most of your time from everything else. But the way I see it, if you're going to attempt to become finacially independent, how can you not expect to put that much work in? You think you can hang around for six months, do nothing, and get rich? Come on! Look at Bill Gates, he works his a*s off 24/7 and look what he's got. Did he finish college? How much work did he have to put in to get where he's at? Didn't he start in a garage? Didn't he take a huge risk? Didn't people laugh at him? Didn't he have to go practicaly door to door to sell his products? See what I mean?



When it comes down to it, not everyone thinks the same and everyones experience's are different. In this business only the strong survive. Everyone has a different story, and everyone sees things differntly. If it was easy everyone would do it right?



Bottom line, why not be in control of your own future? I don't want to work for someone all my life. I don't like to be told what to do. I like to call the shots, I want to be the one in charge. Why not live your life according to your own rules? People these days need to be told what to do no matter what they may tell you. Thats just the way it is. Not me though.



My point for writting this is simply to let people know that the company isn't as bad as some of the people in here are saying. Ok, so once again some offices are messed up but thats the owners fault. It's too bad people have to get greedy and do whatever they can to make money, but thats life nowadays.



Best wishes to all of you,



P.S. I couldn't help but laugh hysterically about people calling it a cult. Thats the dubest most absurd conclusion anyone can come up with. Thats just plain stupid. Anyway...if anyone has questions about getting into the business for the first time, or anything at all, ask me and I'll give you the fairest answer I can. I'll tell you if the business is for you or not.

I have been reading this board for some time but I JUST realized that I worked for this company when I perused through this DS-MAX thread. I WAS the girl in the crappy office answering the phone for 11 hours a day.



This was back in 1994 the summer before I went to college & basically just needed a job before going away to school. At that time, the place was called "Winners Wholesale".



They had an office in Woburn, MA & one in Quincy, MA. Neither are around anymore. This is back when these sales reps were selling junk like radios & calculators out of the trunks of their cars. A man named James hired me to be the office "Receptionist". They should have called me the office "Liar". My job consisted of answering the phone which rang ALL day from applicants looking to fill a "warehouse emptying" position. These guys were all just looking for an honest, blue collar job.



The ad was vague ("we need help moving inventory out of our warehouse") & it was done this way on purpose. I wasn't allowed to give them any information that deviated from the ad. Once the guys came in, I took their resumes, gave them an application to fill out & they were led into James' office where they were told to come in the next morning wearing comfortable shoes.



They though they were moving boxes! Nothing was explained to them. These people didn't know what hit them the next morning when all of the sudden they were on the street (literally) selling k*mart quality (at best) items.



During that day, the reps would tell them how much money they were making & try to keep them on board. Yeah right! I did all their "payroll" (you know, being an 18 year old payroll expert) which basically consisted of handing them an envelope with some cash in it. No taxes taken out, no benefits....NOTHING.



The reps made s**t for money. I mean like $100 a week - MAXIMUM. They'd leave at 8am & wouldn't come back until well after I left & I left at 7pm. They had all of the JUICE signs hangning up & all of the reps came in with these great suits on freshly dry cleaned. The "VP" of the office, Ernest, was always in Haiti. I met him once. Sooooo shady! It was BULLSHIT! I worked there for about 6 weeks & quit telling them that I had to go to school early. Note ~ I was GETTING PAID & pretty well ($10/hr) for some crappy summer job but I just couldn't take it anymore. I felt so bad for these people.



Even though James was great to me, the sight of him after a month made me sick. They didn't care that they were wasting people's honest job-hunting time. The reps didn't care that they weren't making any money albeit spending personal money on gas & putting mileage on their cars. The place was SO BRAINWASHED. Others that describe this place as a cult are totally correct.



There isn't a more accurate description in the English language for it. They would get together in the morning for a 20 minute pump session where they all sat around patting each others' asses & then they'd head out to "make millions" all "juiced up".



I guess now they've matured into placing ads for "inexperienced managers" but it's all the same scam. I figured that they'd been shut down since I hadn't heard of them in almost 10 years. Now, I know that I am far from "seasoned" but having worked in the sales industry for several years after college, I can tell you this. ANY REPUTABLE company (aside from true 1099 contracting such as insurance sales) that has FAITH IN YOUR SALES ABILITIES & IS OFFERING SOMETHING WORTH SELLING, will at the very least give you health benefits in exchange for your services. I am disgusted that this place, this scam, this CULT is still around.

Thanks to everyone in this forum and other reports on this company for saving me from entering a scam. I went to an interview yesterday with Granton Marketing (known as "Titan Advertsing" here, or when they answer the phones "Hello, Advertising") and went through the exact same motions as everyone else who has posted. The interview was a well-memorized sales pitch, the office was a dive, I was one of "6 lucky callbacks" (I'm positive they called everyone back), was asked to a 2nd on-site interview, and to be sure to wear comfortable shows, ect... Nice to know the brainwashing tactics are universal for this company and its thousands of subsidiaries (a.k.a. different names so people won't catch onto our worlwide scamming).



So thanks again for saving me from a crap-hole job. I'll be skipping out on the 2nd interview for certain.

I am a former employee of cydcor, who was willing to move to a different city to further my OPPORTUNITY. Or so that was what I was convinced of. Looking back on the whole process it makes me sick to know I stayed within the organization as long as I did. I consider myself a smart person, however, even I allowed myself to be guided by a dream that I thought Cydcor would make reality. Instead, I am now paying off a huge amount of credit card debt that I got myself into on the Job. I paid for my "crew's" gas money when it was needed, car repairs, lunches, dinners, and helped with rent. I did this because I was told it would pay off in the end. Well, like many of you, you know how I feel. The truth behind DS MAX and Cydcor is you need to be lied to in order to come aboard. In your interview you are led to believe that the owner makes six-figures and they are "only twenty -five years old."

Bob, anytime you are ready to go fists, you know where to go - That's fine. People can see through your BS. If not, let me help them:



"...and the fact of the matter is, as you read through all of these peoples complaints

and they talk about...how many people the company tries to recruit...well in to the thousands..."



Now you complain about numbers! How many of those numbers that you give to potential "independant contractors" are confirmed by independant auditors? You do not provide a single honest figure in your efforts to recruit. How do I know? Through my own experience and sharing that experience with others throughout the world, I know it is a BS scam. Tell me how many owners there are right now. Is it hovering at the 15,000 mark? Funny how given the growth rate promoted to me it is static after two years. It should be at 21,000. But it aint.



How many employers have to talk about how much they make as a motivational tool for their employees?



How many employers who made it have to share their office space with other businesses?



How many independant business owners have to get their business name approved by a higher power?



How many businesses have to move cross country on their own savings cause someone else said so?



How many business owners, who are promoted independance, can have thier livlihoods thrown out because they didn't conform with chants and lies?



This should be pointless by now. DS-Max is a straight up scam. Those who brag about riches have no idea of the wake-up call that is around the corner. They are used to living a lie. Unfortunately for them they don't realize that the "I'm going to have this and that" attitude is still a part of their daily life. They need to wake up and look at things realistically. They don't have s**t but a dream and a nasty attitude.



Bob, you know where to go. Everyone else is welcome as well.



and this company in question only has 7 complaints...with 3 being by the same user (not a bad ratio dont u think...try looking up coca cola next)

I use to work for Ds max in Grand rapids and there were two different companies the one I worked off was a rip off. They sent us out with no money 6 people cramed in one car driving an hour and a half to our locations to scam people into there products.



One of the companies we represented isn't even in business anymore. To make matters worse I was never paid for the contracts I had signed up. It should have told me something when once a week the windows were broke out or someone would steal the Bosses car and smash it and these were people who had worked there for years and had been leaders hoping to open there own office someday.



We are talking about thousands of dollars and i must say the two gentlemen that worked there didn't even dress well they had clothes they had bought at a thrift store.



I almost lost my house because these people never paid me after working there for 4 months. On the other hand there is another up scale business which is a part of ds max who actually pays its enployees.



I think the head of the companies should investigate there managers because the two guys i worked for moved offices all the time i am sure its so they wouldn't be found.

OBVIOUSLY you've never worked for DS Max- if you had, you would have known better than to defend such a miserable company. Living in "Tennebaum-ville" or "Reinhart-ville" -it's no wonder- they pulled one over on the whole country I guess.

In reading trough the negative responses that people were making to each other about dsmax

I noticed that your editor made a comment to the person who was defending themselves against attacks to their business by a party (not even willing to let it be known who they are), and your editor says Wow great tactics, brow beat your critics with your arrogance...but in essence a good defense is not a brow beat...and your forum is set up so that any monkey can leave whatever feedback they would like about anyone else...and the fact of the matter is, as you read through all of these peoples complaints

and they talk about...how many people the company tries to recruit...well in to the thousands...and this company in question only has 7 complaints...with 3 being by the same user (not a bad ratio dont u think...try looking up coca cola next)

...I think that this business is in the right, your editor should be a little more objective, and the person with more time on their hands than

brains...should really find something better to do

I spent two days with the company (I was with Kelly Advertising, a subsidiary of Granton Marketing). I liked everybody I met there and left with no ill will.



My departure had nothing to do with talent or weakness or any possession or lack thereof. It is simply a matter of vocation.



Some people are good athletes, others are good at computers, others can teach. Door to door sales in "the field" is no different. My passion is creative writing.



One of the reasons why I did not continue with Granton is that I would have not had the time to write, which is my particular vocation. I usually make it a policy not to write letters to the editor, post comments on websites, or the like, but remarks I came across on this particular site made by people affiliated with Granton, DS-Max, and all else that fall under this particular pyramid have offended me to the point that I feel a response is in order.



My father once quit a job after only one day. It was a situation much like Granton Marketing: income 100% from commission, no benefits, and exhorbant hours. He then went to Harvard and onto jobs that better suited him. Is my father (who after quitting the aforementioned job served in the Foreign Service, sat on the staffs of three U.S. Senators, and became the youngest and eventually the oldest sitting university president in the nation) not someone who can "cut it" simply for having the presense of mind to realize after only one day that a certain job is incapable of providing adequate support?



I resent mightily the notion that I am weak or was weeded out by Social Darwinism. When I was in junior high I was the victim of a brutal assault by a couple of older boys. When I was able to walk again, I returned to the same school where the attack had occurred. When I was in college I was harassed and hazed by guys whose purpose was to get me to de-pledge. I ended up on the Executive Board of the fraternity. I suffer from a chemical imbalance, yet I am to work on time every day despite the sometimes overwhelming urge to stay in bed. I do so without the aid of therapy or medication. Granton and DS-Max can call me weak. I will let my record speak for itself.



People in the "Management Training Program" have, on this site, gone on and on about how much money they are going to be worth. They also talk about how taxing the program is in terms of time and relationships, something they admit only gets worse with promotion. What is the point of being rich if you cannot spend time with hot women, drive fast cars, and take your buddies out on your boat to enjoy the sun, good booze, and Cuban cigars?



I am now working as a bartender. Say what you will about it, but it is fun, pays well, and I have more than enough time to write and do other things. There are infinite definitions of success, but there tends to be two that prevail: what you are or what are your relationships. I think even the most gung-h*o distributors, leaders, managers, etc. will admit the latter somewhat suffers as a result of sticking around "the field" working for promotion. As for the former, how much these people make is irrelevant--I want my life to stand for something more than selling coupons ("V.I.P. Cards"). I may someday win the Pulitzer Prize. Or, I might just pour drinks for the rest of my life. In either case, who I am is the embodiment of my experiences and resolute character. It is not what others gauge of my skills in "the field" or how much money I could hypothetically accumulate as an owner.



"Juice"

Upon seeing an ad in a local paper last week I thought this would be a good chance to get into marketing or 'entry level management', so decided to give the number a call anyway, although I was quite suspicious as there was no company name, salary or details about what the job entailed, I just thought that it wouldn't hurt to enquire. I filled in an application form at the office, then was given an 'interview', which was more like a sales pitch, I hardly had chance to say a thing!!



The whole thing looks very fishy to me, he called me later to say I could have a 2nd interview and to wear 'comfy shoes' as I would be doing lots of standing and walking round seeing how the company operates. I think the truth is we'll be given a bag of products to sell round town, maybe getting supervised on a one-to-one basis, so we cannot confirm our suspicions with other potential employees.



The comments I have read on this page confirm my suspicions. I was given a web-page address to have a look at so I could ask questions at my 2nd interview, and as there was no information on the web-page (they say they are improving their content and it will be up and running shortly - yeah!!), so I thought I'd research the company myself. I'm so glad I found these reports, I am not gonna even waste my time going to the interview, and if I were, I'd certainly have some questions to be asked (and may also print out some of these comments to question them over!).



Thankyou for posting these comments, you have saved me valuable time and heartache!!

It is amazing to me to read all of these complaints this evening. I could have written some of those paragraphs myself today when I got home from my first interview at Cydcor. I too was in a shanty little office and the name of the company was Strictly Advertising.



I was told how lucky I was (around 4) when I received confirmation of my second interview which would be an all day event. I had several promising interviews that day which I was advised to cancel. The company said that tomorrow would be the only day available for my second interview. Fortunately I hadn't made any cancellations. I came on this website and read your statements.



I have now been saved from a waste of time and have not missed any other opportunities. I want to thank everyone for voicing their opinions and stating these facts so that recent graduates/and others actively searching for jobs will not miss out on any opportunities because of this scam.

As an ex owner and someone who worked in the system for over two years here are the facts:



#1 You do not get to pick the city of your choice when you become an owner, few if any owners do in communications ever do. I don't care what they tell you unless your city is open (if it's desirable place to live forget it) Your not going to get there. Good money making markets have been gobbled up by other owners or regional directors and they have a strong hold on them. Be prepared to wind up in a small market where you'll eek by. regional directors have territories if your not in their orginization why would they put you in their territory if they can't get overrides off you. There are a lot of things that must take place in order to get where you want politics being one of them, I'm not saying it can't happen but it is very few and far between.



#2 Unless you are poised to become a regional director or already are one you BE PREPARED TO MOVE AROUND THE COUNTRY A LOT. I know of owners who have moved over 3 times in the course of 1 year. That sure is fun, moving all the time.



#3 There are no salaried positions if you are an owner or work as a distributor, I don't care what you're told they will say that but it's just a fancy way of covering up overides.



# 4 Be prepared to spend a great deal of time in the feild as an owner. If it took you a 1 year and a 1/2 to become an owner (which is average) you can expect to spend at least another year to 2 years in the field as an owner. Basically you have to have the mentality that you will always be in the field to have a shot at making money, so if you hate the field run away now!



# 5 Upon entering Cydcor (ds max) and deciding that it's for you say good bye to your family and friends when you do see them you can rest assurred an owner or leader will want to come a long to meet them so they can dispell any negative vibes you or your family or friends may have. Why do you think you're asked in a not so obvious way if you have a girl or boyfriend or kids. Leaders and owners know the negative impact this could create.



# 6 Finacial success IS NOT A GIVEN! Most owners don't make it past the first year. It's tough to look people in eye that you know will never make it as an owner and lie to them tell them they'll be rich just work hard. I've seen this as a leader and as an owner, you have to be very thick skinned when it comes to how you hurt people and there's a thousand excuses you tell yourself that "hey there getting something out of this" which they are but is it worth it at their finacial ruin? OWNERS INFLATE EVERYTHING, if they made $25,000 their first year as an owner they'll tell you they made $80,000. This is so true. If you do see where they made $10,000in one month keep in mind that 90% of that goes to rent ads and taxes phone bills admin and yes cydcor gets a nice little (ha) chunck as well.



# 7 "You're dead to me Fredo." Leave the business and they'll never speak of you again unless you're Murray Reinhart (who is the founder and came back). They don't want you negging out that someone you cared about wised up.



# 8Ireally wouldn't pay attention to what the owners that are still cydcor (dsmax) say on this website it's obvious that they are worried or they wouldn't bother to address everyone that posts on this site. THEY NEED YOU! The only way they stay alive is to burn through hundreds of people per year per office to find the few that stick. You've heard the expression "Throw s##t on the wall and see what sticks" I've heard other owners say this on more than one occsion.



# 9 Be prepared to spenda lot of money, you think of it as an education on financial ruin and learning confidence and howto sell.



# 10 MOST IMPORTANT. Be true to yourself if you really feel like this is a great opportunity then go with it you will learn a great deal you will be a better person for it, I truly beleive that. I'm very glad that I went through the system and became an owner. I think everyone should go on an interview and see if it's really for them. But if you do go ahead with it at least you got the chance that I never did, you got to know the real deal from this site not the candy coated version from cydcor. You are now able to make your own educated choice.



Just so you know, although I learned a lot, I would not do this again if I could. I feel I missed out on a lot. I am very succesful at this point in my life a beautiful wife, house, cars and I didn't have to give up my time to get there by dsmax standards. But I would be lying if I didn't give some credit to cydcor (dsmax) they did teach me persistance and grew my confidence. But I would never want any of my family or friends to have to go through this business. Take this for what you want but it is honest unbiased and non sugar coated.

The response from owner Barney encommpass all that Cydcor is.



Completely arrogant, lacking an empathy for human spirit, and a lack of respect for the natural process in which we all seek to learn, grow, and live in our working lives.



Those that don't believe in the system are weak in the mind, according to this owner. This is a common, mean-spirited ideology that runs rampant in the organization. It is a desperation tactic,

trying to appeal to our pride and our ego, to get us to stay for another day.



I'm glad I worked for Cydcor for two months. I tried their system when I was between careers, and searching. Then, I learned the most valuable lessons of my life. It's not just whether or not you get there, it's HOW you get there, and what qualities you develop on your way. Cydcor teaches 'work hard now, play later'. I say love your work, so it's always like playing.



And most of all, thanks to mind-numbing 70 hour work weeks, I learned to appreciate the very things that I was desperately neglecting working for Cydcor. Time. Time for my family, for my friends, for myself. Time to develop in myself what it is I really want to contribute to the world. So thanks Cydcor, I learned that I want the opposite of what your organization personifies.